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  1. #1
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    Cant decide, Ogre or Corsscheck

    Some background:

    I live in NYC

    I currently own:
    Cannondale Caad 8
    GT Track Bike
    Niner SS Hardtail

    I'm in love with the idea of a super versatile "do anything" bike. I'd like to get into touring, possibly some light CX racing, and would like a winter commuter.

    Both bikes seem to weigh about the same and have all the same mounts iir.

    I'm leaning towards the Ogre because the geometry seems to allow me to whip it around a bit more than the CC would. But I would how it would hold up on long multi-day road touring?

    Thoughts/experiences?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Ogre would out perform the CC on multi-day touring. The CC is capable but not designed for big touring loads. "Whip it around" is vague. The CC is fine on single track but would require more care than the Ogre in the rough stuff. Unloaded, the CC would feel peppier on the road, but you already have a road bike. You mention light cyclocross racing. Well, if that is going to be just a minor part of the bike's duties and you're leaning toward the ogre, then I'd get the Ogre. The Ogre will do all of the things you would want it to and more. You'll hve the option of mounting tires from skinny(probably no less than 32) to fairly girthy(up to 2.7 i think?)

    I ride a cross check everyday between 10 and 20 mi. I would be at least as happy and maybe happier with an ogre or a troll.

  3. #3
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    +1

    I agree with everything Vaultbrad said. I commute on my CC daily, It's a great bike but I would get even more utility from the Ogre.

    Pat

  4. #4
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    I echo what everyone else has said. My cross bike (not a CC) collects dust since building my Ogre.

  5. #5
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    I own a CC and have demoed an Ogre. Either bike would meet your needs for a versatile bike, I think. Both are great bikes. Both are plenty "whipable". The Ogre is definitely heavier, but how much heavier than the average CC depends on the components and racks and things like that. The CC is the better roadbike, but since you already have a roadbike, I'd bet the Ogre would fit into your quiver better. You might want to check out the Salsa Fargo too.

    For touring, I say its a toss up. Both have short chainstays which might interfere with rear panniers. On the otherhand, its certainy possible to tour without panniers - big saddlebag, frame bag, Bob Trailer, etc - so that's maybe not a big deal. If any of your touring is offroad, than Ogre is probably the better bike. Salsa Fargo would definitely be better than both.

    For CX, probably advantage CC since its actually designed for CX and is a pretty zippy, nimble bike. But, the CC is notoriously heavy for actual racing, so I don't think you'd loose very much with an Ogre. In fact, I'd bet many people have raced on KM's in the past and done just fine.

    For winter commuting, probably advantage Ogre. Disc brakes and a wider selection of tires. Even the ablity to throw a full fat front end, if you want to. However, plenty of people ride CC's in the winter just fine. Disc brakes are nice, but certainly not mandatory.

    Good luck with the decision.

  6. #6
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    My CC is my winter bike. Run it SS/FG w/ 35mm studded tires. Perfect for here, no need for float, just for bite into black ice. With a road bike and LHT also in the garage though the CC does not see a lot of other ride time. It is also my traveling bike for if I'm going somewhere but I haven't done that for a bit of time. While the LHT meets all my needs for if I were to go back to a single bike, which I hope to never have to, I could definitely see moving its parts over to a purple troll frame and not losing any of its functionality while gaining some more flexibility for future adaptations. And some purple!

  7. #7
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    This is a funny thread, a whole lot of Cross-Check regulars suggesting you go for an Orge!

    My Cross-Check has seen so much off-road duty lately that I've been thinking an Orge or Salsa Fargo might be a better bike for me because they have a higher front-end, fit bigger tyres and have disc brakes (better in the wet/mud). The Salsa Vaya is nice too with similar utility to the Cross-Check but "modern" looks and discs.
    But then I think "I really like the traditional looks of the C-C" and "I have heaps of heel clearance with a rear rack (Surly Nice Rack) and panniers" and "the cantilevers work great 95% of the time". Plus the 'Check is a comfortable and fast bike for lumpy city streets.

    Cutting to the chase I'd go for the Orge too, but don't discount the C-C, it's a fun, versatile and pretty capable bike.

    Mountainbike

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusburger View Post
    This is a funny thread, a whole lot of Cross-Check regulars suggesting you go for an Orge!
    But then I think "I really like the traditional looks of the C-C" and "I have heaps of heel clearance with a rear rack (Surly Nice Rack) and panniers" and "the cantilevers work great 95% of the time". Plus the 'Check is a comfortable and fast bike for lumpy city streets.
    I go through this thought process every time I consider some other bike. Last week, my rear hub started grinding/clicking and I haven't bothered opening it up to overhaul it so I took of the shifty bits and threw in a fixed wheel and I'm back on the road again. The CC is great and for fixed off-roading, I don't need anything burlier and I get plenty of heel clearance with panniers and my old man mountain rack, even with my big feet.

    My recommendation for the ogre was due to it being different enough from the other bikes in the stable, but I will not likely "un-recommend" the CC.

  9. #9
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    I'm also a CC owner who has thought about switching over to an ogre, but i end up going back to the CC as the best bike for what i use it for (very whipable). sometimes on singletrack, i think i could use a little larger then 700x40 tires, but then on my commute the next day, i think 'no this is about right.'

    the ogre and the CC overlap so much that i can't justify switching over.

    but back to the original question, i think both would be great winter commuters. in terms of touring, my guess is that it would depend on what kind of tour your contemplating. if it's more of a road type tour, you'd be probably better off with the CC or even LHT. i've done some loaded overnight camping trips on my CC, but there are moments where the rear gets a little wobbly (though not bad). if the touring you have in mind involves any gravel/ dirt, the ogre would be by far the best choice IMO.

  10. #10
    I Ride for Donuts
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    For me, touring is all about comfort. The geometry of the Ogre and the cushy feel make it better for touring (for me). Dirt or potholes and pavement cracks, the Ogre rides like a Cadillac. If you want to tour in a sports car, the CC might be quicker, but...

    I have the Ogre as my main commuter. 2.35 Big Apples and fenders all last winter... getting some studs for it this year because the BA's are not a great snow tire It's awesome. I have drop bars, BB7's... bombproof reliable everyday bike.
    You have no excuse for driving to work
    (unless you don't have studded tires)
    (no excuse for that either)

  11. #11
    Fat!Drunk!Slow!
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    Just to saw you more towards an Ogre, it really can do just about anything it wants, its an Ogre!

    I commute and bikepack on mine. It rides great and takes a load well. It's seen slicks, balloon's, knobbies, and studs, everything but fat tires fit! Even an 80mm Susp Fork...

    But after having an Ogre, I really want to add an Long Haul Truck Disc or Kona Rove to the stable, dunno why, it's just calling my name! N+1 right?

    Ice Time Studs!


    2.35" Big Apples!

  12. #12
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    It's interesting reading the responses. I use my CC pretty much as a 'do everything bike' and it preforms admirably on all the types of riding i do. but with any bike built for versatility, it's going to come with compromises. a cross bike is going to have different compromises than a rigid mtb, but with a lot of overlap. the best part of a 'do everything bike' for me is that you choose what compromises you are willing to live with, then you stop worrying about it and focus on pushing yourself to ride it anywhere and everywhere.

  13. #13
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    jesusburger and vaultbrad -

    I'm totally with you guys. CC wins the beauty contest hands down. I guess its one of those things that's in the eye of the beholder. Some people dig the traditional lines and some people don't care. I definitely do. And CC monstercrossers are pretty badass in that "there are many like it, but this one is mine" sort of way that a normal mtb (even a rigid) just doesn't quite nail.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjwall View Post
    It's interesting reading the responses. I use my CC pretty much as a 'do everything bike' and it preforms admirably on all the types of riding i do. but with any bike built for versatility, it's going to come with compromises. a cross bike is going to have different compromises than a rigid mtb, but with a lot of overlap. the best part of a 'do everything bike' for me is that you choose what compromises you are willing to live with, then you stop worrying about it and focus on pushing yourself to ride it anywhere and everywhere.

  15. #15
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    I think it really depends on these 3 factors:
    - Drop or flat bars;
    - What kind of stuff do you want to carry. I think the Ogre gives some extra flexibility regarding cargo options;
    - How gnarly are you going off road. The Ogre's geo, tire options and standover gives it an edge here

  16. #16
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    Lots of flarbar CC's (including the new SS CC complete) and dropbar Ogre/KM's out there.

  17. #17
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    You can put pretty much any handlebar you want on them, but it will always be a compromise solution. Been there, done that. You end up with either a weird stem or a weird sized frame. We now have a lot of handlebar specific options around, they are always the best choice for your needs

  18. #18
    CS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusburger View Post
    My Cross-Check has seen so much off-road duty lately that I've been thinking an Orge or Salsa Fargo might be a better bike for me because they have a higher front-end, fit bigger tyres and have disc brakes (better in the wet/mud). The Salsa Vaya is nice too with similar utility to the Cross-Check but "modern" looks and discs.
    But then I think "I really like the traditional looks of the C-C" and "I have heaps of heel clearance with a rear rack (Surly Nice Rack) and panniers" and "the cantilevers work great 95% of the time". Plus the 'Check is a comfortable and fast bike for lumpy city streets.
    The CC would probably work well in most conditions. I can't see it in super technical stuff. But there's alway the Ogre, as mentioned, or the Troll.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    You can put pretty much any handlebar you want on them, but it will always be a compromise solution. Been there, done that. You end up with either a weird stem or a weird sized frame. We now have a lot of handlebar specific options around, they are always the best choice for your needs
    I agree, but I don't think I would categorize either the Ogre or the CC as a "handlebar specific" frame. Both are longish in the TT, which opens up handlebar options. "Weird stem" is in the eye of the beholder. The "praying mantis" look of many dropbar mountain bikes never bothered me, although I can see why some people don't like it. In any case, the "weird stem" is there to get the bars up to use the drops as the primary hand position and a more normal roadbikey setup doesn't necessarily need a funky stem. Before there were Fargo's and Gryphon's, the KM was one of the more popular 29ers to run dropbars on.

    I think we live in the Golden Age of Handlebars, where you can get any kind of dropbar, flatbar, alt bar, H-bar, whatever. And Surly bikes, maybe particularly the CC and Ogre/KM are eminently suited to experimentation and running whatever handlebar setup strikes your fancy.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS2 View Post
    The CC would probably work well in most conditions. I can't see it in super technical stuff. But there's alway the Ogre, as mentioned, or the Troll.
    The only limiting factor that I've noticed is toe overlap, which is only noticible in tight switchbacks, and maybe standover if you're squeamish about that. I don't know what counts as super technical these days, but anything you could ride on the highest-end mountain bike in 1987 (which is to say no disc brakes and no suspension), you can ride with a CC. My personal opinion is that's good enough for 90% of us who live in normal boring places far away from Whistler or Moab, 90% of the time. Maybe 80%. You know - normal recreational, non-racing, non-lift served stuff. I always get a chukle out of the guys riding duallies on the same local trails I ride my LHT. Well, maybe that's no fair; maybe they're just taking a break from the super narly trails they usually ride. (But I kinda doubt it)

  21. #21
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    I think the main limits of the CC off road are the standover and the tire choice limits. Fat tires make all the difference off road

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