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  1. #1
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    2014 Karate Monkey?

    Does anyone have any insight on possible changes for the 2014 Karate Monkey? I know that Surly doesn't refresh their frames often but I am looking for my next frame. I have a 2008 Karate Monkey. It is my do-anything go-anywhere bike and I love it but the top mounted segmented brake cable, tight chainstays, and short head tube really bug me. The 2012/13 Monkey's address those specific issues but the frame could be updated further to a more modern geometry. The headtube is still too short and the head tube angle should be slackened one degree (72* to 71*). The 2013 Monkey is still very high on my list of choices (excellent bang for the buck) but I am looking for something similar to the Monkey that addresses these issues while still being affordable.

  2. #2
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    2013 stuff just came out, so I think only Surly reprentatives would be able to tell you that.

  3. #3
    A God Without A Name
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    Build a honzo with a carbon fork. otherwise Surly is as Surly does.

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    Nothing is wrong with KMs geometry. It is exactly as it should be.

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    More "modern" geometry? Not sure I understand.

  6. #6
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    Re: 2014 Karate Monkey?

    Yeah, please leave it as she is. I don't want slack angles. I love the fast steering.

  7. #7
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    It looks like it will be August before we find out if any changes are coming for 2014. The Honzo/N9/Yellie/TransAM/Stache are not a KM replacements. For example, the head angle on a Honzo is 68*, 4 degrees more than the KM. All I am looking for is 1 degree more slack and 10mm added to the head. Modern geometry includes a taller head tube, wider chainstays, lower standover. Surly has addressed all these except they didn't go tall enough on the head tube. Almost every KM I have seen has at least 10mm of spacers under the head tube. I am using 45mm of spacers currently. If I get a 2013, I will still need 30mm of spacers.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1 View Post
    It looks like it will be August before we find out if any changes are coming for 2014. The Honzo/N9/Yellie/TransAM/Stache are not a KM replacements. For example, the head angle on a Honzo is 68*, 4 degrees more than the KM. All I am looking for is 1 degree more slack and 10mm added to the head. Modern geometry includes a taller head tube, wider chainstays, lower standover. Surly has addressed all these except they didn't go tall enough on the head tube. Almost every KM I have seen has at least 10mm of spacers under the head tube. I am using 45mm of spacers currently. If I get a 2013, I will still need 30mm of spacers.
    If you're that particular about what you want then I'd suggest having a custom frame built. I don't see Surly changing their geometry anytime soon and they'd probably laugh at you if you asked them about it. You can get Surly dropouts and cable guides pretty cheap, have somebody build up what you want with those.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    If you're that particular about what you want then I'd suggest having a custom frame built. I don't see Surly changing their geometry anytime soon and they'd probably laugh at you if you asked them about it. You can get Surly dropouts and cable guides pretty cheap, have somebody build up what you want with those.
    You missed this part "I am looking for something similar to the Monkey that addresses these issues while still being affordable."
    Sure, I could have Walt build me a frame for $1600+ but I would rather spend a little less than that. I don't think adding 10mm to a head tube is being particular.

  10. #10
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    I'd call it the definition of "being particular".

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1 View Post
    ... I don't think adding 10mm to a head tube is being particular.
    Based on your previous posts it seems like you're very particular about what features you like in a frame. I'm simply offering my opinion on the fact that maybe a custom frame would be needed to make you happy. That way you can get your longer headtube without segmented top cable guides and tight chainstays. You can get your 1* difference in HT angle and run as many headset spacers as you wish. I'm a big fan of Surly's dropouts and cable guides, so if I were to build a custom frame I'd consider including those, so I thought that was worth bringing up. And based on Surly's blog posts and overall attitude, they'd most likely laugh at you if you suggested changing their frames' geo.

  12. #12
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    Again, most of the issues I have with the 2008 frame was addressed with the 2012 redesign: cable holddowns on the bottom of the toptube, wider chainstays, and better standover.

  13. #13
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    Yes, I get that you like those features, but you still don't want that frameset because the headtube is too short and you don't like the headtube angle. So when you go to build a custom frame you'll be asking for all of those features together to suit your needs. It will be a pretty particular build IMO.

  14. #14
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    Re: 2014 Karate Monkey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1 View Post
    Again, most of the issues I have with the 2008 frame was addressed with the 2012 redesign: cable holddowns on the bottom of the toptube, wider chainstays, and better standover.
    If you can live with the head tube angle, I wouldn't be concerned with the spacers unless it bugs you cosmetically.

  15. #15
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    I wonder if a longer fork (I've seen at least a couple with 490 a-c) would solve both the head angle and the spacer problem for you. That'd raise the front by about an inch, which is probably enough to slacken head angle by a degree and eliminate your need for spacers.
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  16. #16
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    ^Totally, I still say a Honzo with a carbon fork will get him where he want's to go. but perhaps he's one of those riders that hates the "big" bike companies?

    Not that Surly isn't part of the biggest, most leviathan of gigantic companies. (QBP)

  17. #17
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    I'm running 50mm of spacers to get my '11 KM's handlebars up where I'm comfortable. So sure, I get why you might want the head tube a little longer.

  18. #18
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    Re: 2014 Karate Monkey?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    I'm running 50mm of spacers to get my '11 KM's handlebars up where I'm comfortable. So sure, I get why you might want the head tube a little longer.
    That's nothing. Here's my Cannondale :-P


  19. #19
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    The KM with modern geometry is the Krampus. The KM should never change (much) geometry-wise, more modern interpretations should be new models in my opinion - it's like the difference between a revision and a new drawing in engineering drawings - if it changes the fit, form, or function it's a new part number. Changes to the KM should only be revisions - subtle changes to better suit its original purpose.
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  20. #20
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    Keep it the same please...
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  21. #21
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    2013 KM with a the aftermarket Krampus fork. Problem solved.
    Enjoy the ride!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1 View Post
    I don't think adding 10mm to a head tube is being particular.
    ...not convinced that you understand what the definition of "particular" is.

    At any rate, good luck with your search for a cheap frame that does exactly what the 2013 KM does for you... with 10mm more headtube.

  23. #23
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    Lumbee1-

    I see what you mean with the little head tube on your KM .....I peeked at your Pics. My thought is the relationship of your handlebars and seat seems a bit off.
    You may need a bigger frame fella. Or buy a fork with an un-cut steer tube and stack some spacers on that thing.

    Do you like that position when you ride?.....I don't think I would but I'm no expert in these matters. Oh by the way its ok to nudge manufactures to up-grade and make refinements to machines.
    To all you guys gettin down on the brother for wanting a change... get used to it. Bikes have always been evolving and always will. Surly is what I would estimate to be a leader in industry innovation do to implementation of the ideas riders have. Itís all good.

    Go ride!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCuse View Post
    I wonder if a longer fork (I've seen at least a couple with 490 a-c) would solve both the head angle and the spacer problem for you. That'd raise the front by about an inch, which is probably enough to slacken head angle by a degree and eliminate your need for spacers.
    Actually it would but I purchased a Walt works last year that was built with the "standard" rigid fork dimensions (468mm, 45mm rake). My plan was to move the fork from frame to frame. Another solution would be a headset with a taller bottom cup. The Canecreek S3+5 added 5mm to the bottom cup. This slackens the front ever so slightly and raises the headtube. The only problem is that it has been discontinued and hard to find.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    ^Totally, I still say a Honzo with a carbon fork will get him where he want's to go. but perhaps he's one of those riders that hates the "big" bike companies?

    Not that Surly isn't part of the biggest, most leviathan of gigantic companies. (QBP)
    The Unit would have been a much more appropriate apples-to-apples suggestion. The Unit has very similar geo to the KM except it has a taller headtube and 70* head angle. The chainstays are 17.1-17.8", standover is almost identical, and even the ETT is almost the same. But there is definitely something different between the two frames. The wheelbase on the Unit is 2" longer. With the head angle difference calculated, there should only be a 16mm difference between the wheelbase of the two frames.

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