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  1. #1
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    XX1 knocking/clunking

    I am experieriencing a knocking or clunking issue with my nearly new(90 miles) XX1 derailleur. The clutch clunks loudly when it engages as the bike goes through its travel. It feels and sounds like a locked up seat stay/swingarm bearing. With the wheel removed, when pushing the cage through its swing I can feel it clunk as it engages...so it likely has nothing to do with chain tension as mentioned here:
    Type 2 Derailleur "Knocking"

    I have a brand new one to compare my semi new one and while it swings ok now I can feel hesitation in the beginning and is likely to have the same issue.

    Any ideas? Anyone else experiencing this on XX1?

    I semi-solved the issue by soaking the cage attachment area in dumond liquid lube.

    It still makes noise and clunks while stationary and cycling the suspension but not while in motion on the bike.

    SRAM: please pipe in here... What causes the clunking? Is it "normal" or is it something that needs to be returned for warranty? Is it a set up issue?(aka user error?)
    Last edited by tshred; 01-28-2013 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Found a "fix."

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshred View Post
    ...makes noise and clunks while stationary and cycling the suspension but not while in motion on the bike.
    I think you just answered your own question. Ride, smile, repeat... fixed.

  3. #3
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    Still clunkin

    Sadly No,
    It started clunking and creaking on the next ride..any bright ideas?

  4. #4
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    Hmm... and you can actually hear this while riding? I've got about three months of pretty hard use on my XO Type 2 (mid-cage) and I have noticed the klunking or lite knocking sensation when cycling the suspension at a standstill, but all I notice while riding is blissful silence.

    If it's something you can hear over the noise of flying dirt/debris, etc. then perhaps there is something wrong, or maybe it's a function of clutch break-in and it'll get better with use? Or maybe it's an early-run XX1 quirk? Sorry I can't help with your case, but I would caution against fixating on it. Like I say if it's truly something you hear WHILE riding you may have an issue, though based on my own background of 'fixing' noises I'd say you may have created the creaking yourself by soaking the part in lube. Many modern bearing surfaces are designed to 'self-lubricate' with use and applying oils/solvents/thinning agents, etc. can often defeat the purpose. The knocking sensation when stationary is normal for a friction clutch-type tensioner but you'd be very hard-pressed to notice it while riding, as you said; however, the squeak is not something I've ever heard. If you don't have easy access to SRAM warranty I'd suggest cleaning it up as best possible with a simple rag, maybe a bit of iso alcohol or window cleaner... something to remove any excess lube that may be oozing out. Even better maybe use a soft brush and/or compressed air to clean up the pivot/clutch area. Then ride it, as much and as often as possible. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, many creak-type noise complaints can solve themselves with use, just a matter of components self-clearancing, if that makes sense?

    Keep us posted if you don't mind, I'm planning on upgrading one of my bikes w/ XX1 as soon as I can find a buyer for a one-owner, lightly-used kidney.

  5. #5
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    There is no squeaking... More like a creak like the sound of a door with a hinge that needs lube. Admittedly, I only notice it while climbing, aka the time I have to dwell on things.. I can also feel it as the "clunk" reverberates through the seat stay.

    My main question for SRAM: Is this noise and clunking normal?
    It doesn't seem so as it functioned noiselessly for at least 7 rides...about 100 miles.

  6. #6
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    Ah so, didn't factor the 'climb fixation' into the equation... say no more, I live in NorCal, home of the Endless Fireroad Climb; I understand having blank mind space invaded by outside annoyances all too well. That's where I was coming from with my 'leave it alone and see if it goes away' advise - the pivots on my Type II-equipped bike are prone to creaking loudly (early GT Force) and it used to drive me absolutely mad, especially while climbing, to the point where I tried soaking things in lube as you have. I finally found a fix for that noise which involved (amongst other things) allowing the pivots to seat-in a bit. However, that's a totally different type of pivot interface than the friction clutch in your derailleur, obviously.

    Interesting what you say about feeling the klunk too. My I-Drive frame has minimal chain growth throughout its travel so I really can't feel that slight play (klunk) at the beginning of clutch engagement unless I'm bouncing it while standing still. Even then it's very slight and feels more like my rear shock is due for service, which it is. But a suspension system with more pronounced chain growth (a la DW/VPP) could certainly exaggerate the sensation, especially if it's made of hollow carbon fiber.

    Hopefully someone from SRAM or at least another XX1 user with some mileage will chime in with a fix, suggestion, or at least similar experience. Staying tuned...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshred View Post
    Any ideas? Anyone else experiencing this on XX1?
    Yep, started experiencing it after a really rainy ride. Was worse, got a bit better after I sprayed some WD-40 into the clutch-joint through the edges. But on a fully unlocked rear suspension the clack sound and a significant vibration are still there.

    Did a video but you can't really see the derailleur moving so it looks like the clacking is made by something else, but (I'm sure you know) it's made by the derailleur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDETkAMb9eo

    Would send it back for warranty replacement but don't want to pause my riding until I receive a new one (would take at least a month to where I live), so I guess I first have to get one extra. (Good to have one as a spare, right?).

    Not making that part serviceable is a huge design oversight in my opinion, especially after so many reports of this Type 2 issue. This totally looks like a problem solvable by adding a small amount of grease - if you could access it.

    Also the chain length has absolutely nothing to do with it - the clutch is supposed to move smoothly inside the whole radius it covers.

    Maybe when I get the new one, instead of sending this one to warranty, I will rip it open to see if it's serviceable and possible to close again - will let you know.

  8. #8
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    I have had xx1 since December as well as a friend of mine, and we have not had a single issue or noise with it? I know this doesn't help you but maybe it's an isolated issue?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mx231 View Post
    I have had xx1 since December as well as a friend of mine, and we have not had a single issue or noise with it? I know this doesn't help you but maybe it's an isolated issue?
    It is isolated (I assume you have seen the other about 5 threads about this here and on other sites - these include other Type 2's - X9, XO, XX), but it appears to happen after a dirt gets into the clutch joint of the derailleur, usually carried in there by water.

    So it's either a manufacture defect which makes some of the products more susceptible to this kind of malfunction (which I seriously doubt given today's manufacturing standards - basically the only variable is material failure), or every single product is susceptible and will start doing this after e.g. a proper rainy ride. Read: it can happen to you.

    It's also possible that the self-greasing mechanism the clutch is said to have is doing its job, but in this case a bit slower than it should (it's understandable that it needs to work slow in order to keep working for a very long time). In fact, the clack I have now is much quieter than the one on the video I posted, and I doubt the reason for that is that I tried to spray the thing with WD-40 from outside.

    So it may be a good idea to try to cycle it by hand for a good 5 minutes, over its complete path of movement - back and forth - in the hope that the self-greasing mechanism will kick in faster.

    Maybe we should try to email the guy who designed it, and ask him.

  10. #10
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    "Rough (or noisy)" --> "Fouled bearing" --> "Clean"

    Roller Clutch Bearing Troubleshooting Fishing Reels

  11. #11
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    Anybody heard from SRAM yet. Is the knocking a warranty issue they are taking care of? I was thinking of pulling the trigger on the whole XX1 group for a Jet 9 RDO I'm building. Then I decided I should do a Google search and found this thread Not suprised, but disappointed because the group is so simple and light.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheel-addict View Post
    Anybody heard from SRAM yet. Is the knocking a warranty issue they are taking care of? I was thinking of pulling the trigger on the whole XX1 group for a Jet 9 RDO I'm building. Then I decided I should do a Google search and found this thread Not suprised, but disappointed because the group is so simple and light.
    I guess if you don't plan on riding in really rainy / wet conditions, then there is not a big risk of this happening to you. (That of course is an assumption in and on itself.)

    I think some of the X9/XX/XO Type 2 guys got this replaced under warranty, I think I've seen at least one such report. (Not sure if that was easier because the LBS did it for them, better check those threads yourself.)

    In my opinion the XX1 is very much worth it despite this flaw / the risk of this flaw happening to you.

  13. #13
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    I took my clunkin derail to the lbs...SRAM took it back for warranty. Haven't tried new one out yet.

  14. #14
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    Mine has done that since brand new.

  15. #15
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    Mine started clunking/knocking after about 20 miles. The mounting bolt also loosened up on me which I've never had happen before.

  16. #16
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    I ride in a lot of wet conditions and my xx1 rd gets really loud when it gets wet and dirty. It pops and creaks and makes my new bike sound like an old abused bike. it is very annoying.

    I found when i clean it and cycle the RD a ton it quiets down a bit, but the clunk never fully goes away.
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  17. #17
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    I have about 60 miles on mine and it started to clunk today. It has not gotten wet and have only ridden in the dry. I thought it was something in the rear suspension and then realized it was my new XX1. Guess I will call Sram next week to try and get some answers. It has pink stuff around the clutch which Sram said was ok.

  18. #18
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    Hey guy's,
    I did a little experimenting with my X9 type 2 rear derailleur today trying to eliminate the clunking. Here is what I did and it completely resolved the clunking issue. What I found is the roller bearing was completely dry of grease. I'm not the most detail oriented guy so if you have any questions feel free to PM me with your number and I can walk you thru the steps over the phone.

    Here is a quick DIY on what I did:

    -Remove rear derailleur from bike

    -On the outside of the RD were the clutch is there is a small plastic cap. Pry the small plastic cap off and it will expose a T55 torque bolt. The is the bolt that says ( type 2 roller clutch) on it. Remove that torque bolt.

    -Remove the outer cage (3mm allen) and pulleys.

    -From there you will see another 3mm allen bolt at the top of the RD. Remove it carefully as the inner cage is under pressure from the RD return spring. I held the RD body and inner cage together with my hand while removing the 3mm allen.

    -Once the bolt is removed pull and inner cage is off pull out the RD return spring and set it aside. The is only one way it can go back in so don't worry that.

    -Once the spring is removed press the center of the clutch mechanism out to the other side of the RD. I screwed the 3mm cage bolt back in the hole and taped on it lightly with a hammer to get it to pop out the other side.

    -From there you will see the shaft with a plastic sleeve on it. (That's the roller bearing)

    -Slide the roller bearing off and grease the shaft, roller bearing's and outer plastic sleeve. Also grease the back side of the T55 torque bolt and the plastic spring guide that sits on the inner cage.

    -From there just reassemble in revers order.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmoto39 View Post
    Hey guy's,
    ... Here is a quick DIY on what I did: ...
    sounds great! it actually stopped to bother me for some reason, but if there's a lack of grease then i guess i have to put some in to prevent premature wear.

    one question though - now when you cycle the derailleur by hand when mounted on the bike, do you find the clutch resistance the same as before? (except the extra resistance spike on the beginning of the movement which was there previously due to the lack of grease.) or to put the question differently - do you find the resistance adequate to prevent chain slap?

    another question - the plastic cap you had to pry off - was that glued on? did you have to glue it back on? if yes, what glue have you used?

  20. #20
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    Thanks for the DIY. The sound I hear does sounds like dry parts rubbing together and is coming from the clutch. I will contact Sram first since I have only used the part for a week to see what they say. The clutch cap on mine has pink stuff around it and is not flush sticking out about 1/16. It looks like it has threads on it.

  21. #21
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    The pink stuff is lock tight. That's the cap you will pulling off with the T55 torque socket. If you tighten that cap down to much it puts more drag on the clutch action.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmoto39 View Post
    The pink stuff is lock tight. That's the cap you will pulling off with the T55 torque socket. If you tighten that cap down to much it puts more drag on the clutch action.
    Thanks for your help. I see the little plastic cap comes off to expose the T55 screw on cap. How did you know when to stop tightening it (when the clutch felt resistance)? Mine already has a couple threads exposed when new, so I guess a torque is specified or some kind of resistance setting.

  23. #23
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    I just tightened mine to wear it was from the factory.

  24. #24
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    So I did it, and took some pictures too.

    I was kinda lazy (needed to do this quick) to remove the chain and the derailleur and then put it back and recalibrate it etc., was quicker to just do it on the bike, although putting the spring back and preloading it with one rotation was quite an exercise (in fact probably the hardest bike mechanic operation I've done by far). (I did separate the derailleur from the bike, but did not separate it from the wire.)

    At first I just undid the T55 torx, tilted the bike and drowned the clutch in WD40, but that did not help. The WD40 has made into the roller bearing (as I found when I opened it), so my hunch is that it's not the roller bearing that was the problem, but something external to it (but internal to the derailleur clutch joint).

    So I greased everything, cycled the cage by hand properly, and then tightened the T55 to a level where no chain slap is possible, yet the derailleur cage moves smoothly.

    I CAN NOT BELIEVE the difference this has made:
    1. on the ease and precision of the shifting,
    2. on the increased smoothness of the rear suspension.

    Of course the bad sound went away too, but the bad sound was nothing compared to the other 2 points.

    Should I get a new XX1 rear derailleur in the future, you know what's the first thing I'm doing with it, clacking or not.

    Enough said.

    XX1 knocking/clunking-dsc04263.jpg
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  25. #25
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    I called SRAM because I'm having the same issue with my XX1 derailleur on a new Blur TRc that I just built up. Basically, the rep said that the knocking should get better once I break in the derailleur, but that it is also "a function of the Type 2 derailleur."

    Both of these statements seem odd since some people aren't having this issue at all and some people are having this issue after the derailleur has been ridden some. Some of the problems could be from user error I guess or based on suspension design. Nonetheless, it would be nice if this fancy system didn't have this issue.

    I haven't ridden the bike yet, so my hope is that the knocking sound either won't be noticeable or will go away on trails. If not, I'll try adding a couple of links (even though I'm fairly certain the chain is properly sized). If that doesn't work I'll see if SRAM can warranty it or else open up the derailleur...not motivated enough yet to open up a brand new derailleur.

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