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  1. #1
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    Good job! Tube vs.Tubeless Weight Analysis

    I figured I would post this here because it was done with Specialized equipment. I did a full weight analysis on tubes versus tubeless.

    I used stock Roval wheels with HiLo hubs off a 2012 Epic Carbon Comp. Here are my findings.

    I meticulously weighed everything using a digital gram scale. For some reason their was red rim strips on my wheelset. I removed them and replaced with 25mm yellow tape. I also used a standard Stan's valve stem becasue you can remove the core. It worked great. It fit the rim profile perfectly

    Stock wheelset:
    Front with rotor, stock red rim strip, tube and S-works Fast track tire- 1775 grams
    S-works Fast Track tire- 519 grams
    Front with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem.-1067 grams
    Front with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, tire and sealant-1653 grams.

    I ended up puting 67 grams of sealant in the front tire.

    Reduced front wheel by 122 grams or 4.3 ounces.

    Rear with rotor, stock red rim strip, tube, cassette and Control Renegade 29x1.95 tire- 2319 grams
    Control Renegade 29x1.95 tire- 524 grams
    Rear with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, cassette.-1609 grams
    Front with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, cassette, tire and sealant-2197 grams.

    I ended up puting 64 grams of sealant in the reart tire.

    Reduced rear wheel by 122 grams or 4.3 ounces.

    I would say my margin of error is less than 1%. Just by converting to tubeless I saved 244 grams or 8.6 ounces.

    Additional Notes- The new Fast Trak tire is the easiest tire I have set up. It would of probably held air with no sealant. It easy to get on the rim and bead popped on with little effort.

    If you buy an Epic Comp and convert the wheels you will need either the blue roval tape or stans yellow tape. I went with the wider yellow tape.

    Edit: Did some more weighing. Here are the complete weights.

    Front with stans tubeless valve stem and yellow tape-964 grams
    Rear with stans tubeless valve stem and yellow tape-1139 grams
    Cassette Sram1030-369 grams
    Rotor with hardware-104 grams (This is an average of both rotors weighed)

    There is some weight to be saved with another wheelset and cassette.


    Erik
    Last edited by bedell99; 03-20-2012 at 03:07 PM.

  2. #2
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    Interesting! Thanks!
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    Nice work!

  4. #4
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    I only ride tubeless... unless when I flat on the trail. Then I rock a tube for the rest of the ride!

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    If you buy an Epic Comp and convert the wheels you will need either the blue roval tape or stans yellow tape. I went with the wider yellow tape.
    Nice Data
    However the red rim strip works just fine

  6. #6
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    Great post!

    I'm still up in the air about going tubless on my SWepic, so how much sealant is one "supposed to use"? Does the Stan's sealant bottle have a measurement? I think the biggest thing holding me back is the fact that the sealant is only good for a few months according to stans website. Plus I like running 35psi in my tires.

    Nice to see that you saved just over half a pound, very cool!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    I figured I would post this here because it was done with Specialized equipment. I did a full weight analysis on tubes versus tubeless.

    I used stock Roval wheels with HiLo hubs off a 2012 Epic Carbon Comp. Here are my findings.

    I meticulously weighed everything using a digital gram scale. For some reason their was red rim strips on my wheelset. I removed them and replaced with 25mm yellow tape. I also used a standard Stan's valve stem becasue you can remove the core. It worked great. It fit the rim profile perfectly

    Stock wheelset:
    Front with rotor, stock red rim strip, tube and S-works Fast track tire- 1775 grams
    S-works Fast Track tire- 519 grams
    Front with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem.-1067 grams
    Front with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, tire and sealant-1653 grams.

    I ended up puting 67 grams of sealant in the front tire.

    Reduced front wheel by 122 grams or 4.3 ounces.

    Rear with rotor, stock red rim strip, tube, cassette and Control Renegade 29x1.95 tire- 2319 grams
    Control Renegade 29x1.95 tire- 524 grams
    Rear with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, cassette.-1609 grams
    Front with rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, cassette, tire and sealant-2197 grams.

    I ended up puting 64 grams of sealant in the reart tire.

    Reduced rear wheel by 122 grams or 4.3 ounces.

    I would say my margin of error is less than 1%. Just by converting to tubeless I saved 244 grams or 8.6 ounces.

    Additional Notes- The new Fast Trak tire is the easiest tire I have set up. It would of probably held air with no sealant. It easy to get on the rim and bead popped on with little effort.

    If you buy an Epic Comp and convert the wheels you will need either the blue roval tape or stans yellow tape. I went with the wider yellow tape.

    Erik
    How many "scoops" of sealant does your gram measurements of usage equal???

  8. #8
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    EPICFSR, why do you like running 35 psi? If its because of stopping pinch flats, guess what? NO PINCH FLATS WITH TUBELESS! Running lower pressure hooks your tires to the dirt SO MUCH better. Typically i still run 25-28 psi rear and 22psi front. And stans gives a three month "expiration" like canned foods expire in a couple years. Those canned foods will actually last 10+ years (so long as you have no dents in the can)... you'll run out of stans because it'll get used before it "expires". I've ran only tubeless since 2005 in my mtn bikes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyrides07 View Post
    EPICFSR, why do you like running 35 psi? If its because of stopping pinch flats, guess what? NO PINCH FLATS WITH TUBELESS! Running lower pressure hooks your tires to the dirt SO MUCH better. Typically i still run 25-28 psi rear and 22psi front. And stans gives a three month "expiration" like canned foods expire in a couple years. Those canned foods will actually last 10+ years (so long as you have no dents in the can)... you'll run out of stans because it'll get used before it "expires". I've ran only tubeless since 2005 in my mtn bikes.

    Thanks for the info!

    I run 35psi only because I don't like the feel of softer tires when running below 30psi, I get a sensation of feeling really slow when riding on the trails. And yes also because of pinch flats, I might just go a head and try it. Should I go with the stans removable valve stem and inject the sealer through the core by using there injector? If I were to run 30psi when converted to tubless would that be ok to do?

    My roval control SL wheels are already taped with the blue tape. Should I switch to the yellow stans?

  10. #10
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    Even when I have been on bikes set up as tubeless, I still like around 26-30psi to avoid rim damage in rockier terrain and to avoid the squishy/rolling-out-from-under-you feeling as well as burping air and sealant in faster, off-camber turns. I've not had a lot of tubeless miles but I have experienced all of these things when the pressures were lower than 25psi.

    Very good analysis, btw. Half a pound savings is about what I estimated.

    Oh, about running without sealant, most tires have some porosity and won't hold air w/o sealant for very long. Verified this by water tanking an aired tubeless without sealant. Small air bubbles began to form on the surface of the rubber immediately in portions of the sidewall. So, sealant is necessary. Plus it does it's job with small punctures on the trail.
    Last edited by Glide the Clyde; 03-11-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Thanks! great post!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    How many "scoops" of sealant does your gram measurements of usage equal???
    I use the stans injector and put ~2oz or 60 ml. My wife has a single 2 ounce scoop that have used without her permission. This was one of the reasons I use the stans valve stems. It has a removable core and I don't make a mess.

    Erik

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    Even when I have been on bikes set up as tubeless, I still like around 26-30psi to avoid rim damage in rockier terrain and to avoid the squishy/rolling-out-from-under-you feeling as well as burping air and sealant in faster, off-camber turns. I've not had a lot of tubeless miles but I have experienced all of these things when the pressures were lower than 25psi.

    Very good analysis, btw. Half a pound savings is about what I estimated.

    Oh, about running without sealant, most tires have some porosity and won't hold air w/o sealant for very long. Verified this by water tanking an aired tubeless without sealant. Small air bubbles began to form on the surface of the rubber immediately in portions of the sidewall. So, sealant is necessary. Plus it does it's job with small punctures on the trail.
    Thanks for the rep Malibu. The Renegade leaked like a seive and it took alot of shaking to get the side walls to seal. The Fast Trak sealed great. The sidewall where not porous at all. I use combination of dishwasher soap and water in a spray bottle on the bead to help the seating process. Plus you can see where air is escaping. It works real well.

    Erik

  14. #14
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    Great comparison!

    I have been still weighing the pros/cons of going tubeless. Have a few questios regarding sealant. Also know that time doesn't allow me to ride a lot.

    How often do you need to replace the sealant? How much of a pain is it to remove the old, dried up sealant? Could this dried up sealant "add up" to the point you no longer "lost weight"? Remember, nowadays I usually replace tires due to age, not being worn out.

    TY again for the time taken for this great comparison!
    Chris

  15. #15
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    Thanks bedell
    Weighed my ZTR Arch 29, 2.25 Racing Ralphs Evo Tubeless setup.
    I used Cheap Chinese Luggage scale, so hopefully its not completely off.

    Wholesale - WHA05 45Kg/10g Digital Scales LCD Display Luggage Hanging Fishing Weight Scale Portable Lot, Free shipping, $9.41-12.32/Piece, 10 pieces/Lot | DHgate.com

    Front with brake rotor, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, tire and 1.5 scoops sealant: 1695g
    Rear with brake rotor, XT 11-36 cassette, stans 25mm tape, 44mm stans tubeless stem, tire and 1.5 scoops sealant: 2245g

    I didn't weight the wheels prior to the conversion, but the Kenda inner-tubes I removed were 215g each !!!

  16. #16
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    What about rim strips? Both Stan's site and Specialized's toll-free customer support recommend using them to prevent burping. Tha's what's holding me back.

  17. #17
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    I'm pretty sure that Stan's ZTR rims doesn't need the rim strips - only the yellow tape.
    I also converted my Spesh SJ FSR Expert 29er's DT Swiss 520SL rims with Specialized 2bliss tires without the rim strip.

    Truth is that the DT Swiss did burp, and v I even crashed hard because of that, but when running higher enough pressure probably 30 lbs it works fine.

    I believe that the ZTR/Racing Ralph combo is less prone to burps compared to the DT Swiss/2bliss tires combo, but time will tell...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 96m2comp View Post
    Great comparison!

    I have been still weighing the pros/cons of going tubeless. Have a few questios regarding sealant. Also know that time doesn't allow me to ride a lot.

    How often do you need to replace the sealant? How much of a pain is it to remove the old, dried up sealant? Could this dried up sealant "add up" to the point you no longer "lost weight"? Remember, nowadays I usually replace tires due to age, not being worn out.

    TY again for the time taken for this great comparison!
    Chris

    1. How often ?
    I believe that it depends on the weather, tire as well as other factors, but I guess that every 4-6 months

    2. How much pain ?
    Almost none.
    You can do it while the tire is in the stand - bike lifted so the tire doesn't touch the floor.
    After deflating, you just pop out the tire at one section (6 inches or so at the bottom of the wheel)
    see # 3 below regarding removal of the "odd ball"
    put 1.5 scoops of the sealant.
    Rotate the tire so the sealant is in the close portion of the tire.(bottom part to the floor = gravity)
    Pop the tire back in place, sing your hands or a lever.
    Use your Floor pump to re-inflate.
    Then it may be a good idea to remove the wheel from the bikes and shake it all around.
    Put soap water to see if there are any leaks and repeat the horizontal shaking.
    Once you do it, it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes per wheel.

    3. Removal of dry sealant.
    As explained above, do not remove the tire from the rim.
    But prior to adding the sealant, insert your hand into the area of the tire you opened and look for a dry rubbery like funny ball. That's what happens to the dry sealant.
    So there is no really accumulated weight each time you add sealant.

    Good luck

  19. #19
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    Thank's bedell99, Nice work on the tubleless weight analysis.

    Out west we have to deal with the dreaded "Goat head" thorns so most people run at the least a "Slime Tube" (which only slows down the leaks). So actually weight saving is even more than that of replacing a stock tube.

    With the new generation of "Tubeless Ready" tires I think we can only see more options when running tubeless.

  20. #20
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    I live in goathead territory and went all last season (feb to present) with zero flats and zero maintenance besides pumping up to 28psi before hitting the trails. I used to get more goatheads in the valley floor than up in the mountains. So far I would say tubeless conversion (stock dt wheels and 2bliss eskar tires on 2010 enduro comp) is both more reliable and lighter than slime. I'll never go back to tubes unless they make it obsolete somehow.

    Ps. My lbs mechanic said don't bother replacing old sealant until you notice leaks increasing, so the expiration date is definitely longer than a couple months. I've got a year on mine and still working well.

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    This is a little off topic, but someone did mention burping and crashing. I run 2Bliss tires tubeless on Roval wheels with the blue rim tape that came with the wheels. I weigh 153# and normally use 23-26psi in my tires. I love the grip this setup provides.

    While I have never experienced burping, I'd love to hear from people who have with Roval wheels and 2bliss tires. Is burping common?
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  22. #22
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    To spice things up a little bit, has anyone tried Foss tubes?

    foss.mpg - YouTube

    Lighter than normal tubes, puncture proof, easy to mend...
    $19 on dealextreme.com

  23. #23
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    I'm amazed that people DON'T run tubeless. Tubes just don't make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by championp View Post
    I live in goathead territory and went all last season (feb to present) with zero flats and zero maintenance besides pumping up to 28psi before hitting the trails. I used to get more goatheads in the valley floor than up in the mountains. So far I would say tubeless conversion (stock dt wheels and 2bliss eskar tires on 2010 enduro comp) is both more reliable and lighter than slime. I'll never go back to tubes unless they make it obsolete somehow.

    Ps. My lbs mechanic said don't bother replacing old sealant until you notice leaks increasing, so the expiration date is definitely longer than a couple months. I've got a year on mine and still working well.
    champion,,,, did you use rim strips on your dt wheels? I just converted my dt swiss wheels and just used the yellow tape. Haven't tested them yet

  25. #25
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    Interesting to see this measured. I've been running tubeless since 2004 and LOVE it. Recently got an Arch ZTR up front w/ yellow tape and that made it even easier. I did run tubes for a little while this December and had multiple flats...honestly, I can't imagine why I'd ever want to run tubes again. Or why I'd want to ride with people who do!!!? Too much waiting around while someone fixes that Goathead hole or pinchflat.
    Bicycling is politics by other means.

  26. #26
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    For those who have not ran tubeless, you will notice improved performance all around with less failure on the trail. Albeit it takes a bit more to install, that is back in your garage vs. out on the trail. There is a definite learning curve from installation, air pressure, repair if there is a problem on the trail and type of tire.

    I typically will install a new tire with Stans and it operates fine until the tire needs replaced. Now this may be on the sketchy side for the life of the sealant, but it may also be relative to the type of terrain and locale where one rides.

    The only weak link in the system based on my experiences is that using a standard tire your percentages of having an issue on the trail generally will go up.

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    Lots of good info here. Just converted to notubes. Excited about running them, good riding all winter now it is wet wet here in Calif.. I put captain and eskatar2 on dt swiss rims and used the stans yellow tape only and sealant. I hear about burping and I hope It dosen't happen on the trail. On the stans site there is a video about tubless comparison that is interesting. He takes a tire and makes it burp by pulling it over by hand,,, looks easy to do. I aired up my tires 30 psi back and 28 front and did the test,,, not even easy, so I think I'm good. I'm 190lbs dry.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffover3 View Post
    Lots of good info here. Just converted to notubes. Excited about running them, good riding all winter now it is wet wet here in Calif.. I put captain and eskatar2 on dt swiss rims and used the stans yellow tape only and sealant. I hear about burping and I hope It dosen't happen on the trail. On the stans site there is a video about tubless comparison that is interesting. He takes a tire and makes it burp by pulling it over by hand,,, looks easy to do. I aired up my tires 30 psi back and 28 front and did the test,,, not even easy, so I think I'm good. I'm 190lbs dry.
    Try to ride initially with higher pressure and reduce it every couple of rides to find your sweet spot.
    My catastrophic burp happened when I did a low jump and when landed a sharp object (rock or stick) pushed against my Front tire side wall.
    The tire burped all the air instantaneously and I crashed hard over the bars...
    It was at low speed and a pretty shallow jump -maybe 1-2 ft.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffover3 View Post
    champion,,,, did you use rim strips on your dt wheels? I just converted my dt swiss wheels and just used the yellow tape. Haven't tested them yet
    I had my lbs do it for ten bucks a wheel. They replaced the yellow rim strips with stans tape cause they have it on a bulk roll. They insisted on replacing the rim strip and I trust these guys. The stans kit was like $70 or something so I just let them do it for me it was cheaper and they'll back up their work. I did run tubes for a bit first i think that helps mate the tire to the rim. Its run great since day one though. Slow leak is no big deal to me. Just a few psi between rides. The scale says my bikes a half pound heavier but it rides lighter and rolls better so i don't know. They may have used three scoops.

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    I have had two burps while running low 20's psi and landing from "whip" type jumps with the front wheel turned upon landing. I lost some sir once and most air the othe time. I pumped t back up and kept riding. I run 25-28 psi now and use the enduro on the trails and the dj bijke for jumping and riding the streets.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliffover3 View Post
    champion,,,, did you use rim strips on your dt wheels? I just converted my dt swiss wheels and just used the yellow tape. Haven't tested them yet
    I had my lbs do it for ten bucks a wheel. They replaced the yellow rim strips with stans tape cause they have it on a bulk roll. They insisted on replacing the rim strip and I trust these guys. The stans kit was like $70 or something so I just let them do it for me it was cheaper and they'll back up their work. I did run tubes for a bit first i think that helps mate the tire to the rim. Its run great since day one though. Slow leak is no big deal to me. Just a few psi between rides. The scale says my bikes a half pound heavier but it rides lighter and rolls better so i don't know. They may have used three scoops.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by championp View Post
    I had my lbs do it for ten bucks a wheel. They replaced the yellow rim strips with stans tape cause they have it on a bulk roll. They insisted on replacing the rim strip and I trust these guys. The stans kit was like $70 or something so I just let them do it for me it was cheaper and they'll back up their work. I did run tubes for a bit first i think that helps mate the tire to the rim. Its run great since day one though. Slow leak is no big deal to me. Just a few psi between rides. The scale says my bikes a half pound heavier but it rides lighter and rolls better so i don't know. They may have used three scoops.
    If you read the first post in this thread you can see the weight savings, he saved over half a pound. You should have saved weight by going tubless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EpicFSR View Post
    If you read the first post in this thread you can see the weight savings, he saved over half a pound. You should have saved weight by going tubless.
    I believe it is because my lbs used 3 scoops of fluid per wheel compared to the OP's one scoop per wheel. I have 26x2.3" tires. Tubes i was running weighed 170-220 grams. I didnt weigh every tube though. I definitely saved weight over a tube with slime. I'll install my next tires myself and experiment with minimum sealant values. Like I said I live in goathead country so three scoops prevents customers from complaining about flats and "this stuff dont work, i want my money back" etc. Its an epidemic on the streets and neighborhoods of Northern Utah. Dependability trumps weight in non race environment.

    Like i said before, they pedal like they're lighter but the scale disagrees. I still like it better than tubes.

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    Great info in the post. Much love for documenting it out. Doing a rebuild of my Specialized Epic at the moment so I think it is time to hook up so tubeless action!
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  35. #35
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    Interesting. I hear a lot of threads saying tubeless will result in no real weight savings. 8.6 oz (about .5 lbs) seems very significant, especially since it's rotating weight.

  36. #36
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    I went tubeless and went back to tubes. I didnt notice hardly much of a difference plus I got a flat on the trail running tubeless.

    Running 32 psi front and back with tubes. Im 200 and have not had any pinch flats or problems.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    I went tubeless and went back to tubes. I didnt notice hardly much of a difference plus I got a flat on the trail running tubeless.

    Running 32 psi front and back with tubes. Im 200 and have not had any pinch flats or problems.
    Was it a large puncture? I hear tubeless will get flats but much less than tubes if set up properly.

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    It was a large cactus spine from Soapstone area, and it slowly went down in air pressure and I had put a tube in. It was a major pain trying to break the bead from the rim to change for a tube. That sealant is super strong but I didn't see any advantage to tubless besides a slightly lower pressure, 30psi front and back. Any lower PSI and the 2BLISS tires would feel squirmy.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    It was a large cactus spine from Soapstone area, and it slowly went down in air pressure and I had put a tube in. It was a major pain trying to break the bead from the rim to change for a tube. That sealant is super strong but I didn't see any advantage to tubless besides a slightly lower pressure, 30psi front and back. Any lower PSI and the 2BLISS tires would feel squirmy.

    Soapstone eh? You must be close to me. I ride Soaptone at the end/start of the season when everything up high is still snowy. I am gonna go tubeless this week ok my new Camber Comp Carbon. I shall report back! Might try to ride something near FoCo this weekend, even if it is a bit nippy.

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    Make sure to report back on your tubeless experience and maybe post a ride report on your camber

    I just got a 2012 stumpy 26er and love it. Im up here in Laramie.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Make sure to report back on your tubeless experience and maybe post a ride report on your camber

    I just got a 2012 stumpy 26er and love it. Im up here in Laramie.
    Awesome. I am UW Alum! Spent a good 5 years riding Vedauwoo. I am in Cheyenne now and ride Gowdy mostly. I designed the maps at All Terrain Sports. Find my YouTube page "thejoncic" and you can see my reviews of both my new camber and my old 26er. Funny how I always find people nearby on this forum!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    It was a large cactus spine from Soapstone area, and it slowly went down in air pressure and I had put a tube in. It was a major pain trying to break the bead from the rim to change for a tube. That sealant is super strong but I didn't see any advantage to tubless besides a slightly lower pressure, 30psi front and back. Any lower PSI and the 2BLISS tires would feel squirmy.
    The Sealant (Stan's ???) should have taken care of that.
    Did you have any liquid sealant in the tube or was it all dried up ?
    You need to add juice every 3-4months, depending on the weather.
    I have been running tubeless on all my bikes and it never failed me (once it was setup correctly).
    I will be converting my road bikes to Tubeless as well once my new rims are here.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by StumpyElite2010 View Post
    The Sealant (Stan's ???) should have taken care of that.
    Did you have any liquid sealant in the tube or was it all dried up ?
    You need to add juice every 3-4months, depending on the weather.
    I have been running tubeless on all my bikes and it never failed me (once it was setup correctly).
    I will be converting my road bikes to Tubeless as well once my new rims are here.
    StumpyElite, I see you are getting new rims, I just bought a 2013 Camber Comp Carbon and would like to update rims. I know this is a tubeless forum but do you know any good sources of where I can find out how much weight I can save for a decent XC/AM wheelset and the price? I know nothing about wheelsets.

  44. #44
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    For XC, go with Stan rims (Arch Ex or Crest) and Schwalbe Racing Ralphs Tires...

    29-inch Mountain Wheels

    And go tubeless all the way... no flatting in the middle of the race.
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  45. #45
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    A new wheelset would be nice but at 185 and my AM riding style I might need something more stout. .5 lbs of rotational weight loss will still be nice on my current setup.

  46. #46
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    I too am ~185# and I'm on the fence with the tubeless idea. I have a '13 SJ FSR Comp and I not really seeing the benefit vs tubes. Sure a half pound of rotational weight sounds good but the whole 'burp-n-crash' thing has me a bit concerned. Never had that issue running tube. I have the kit in the garage (tape and sealant) but thinking of returning it. At my weight the setup from Specialized is saying ~34 PSI. Would burping be an issue at this pressure?

    BTW - stock setup is:
    Front tire - Specialized Purgatory Control, 2Bliss Ready, 60TPI, aramid bead, 29x2.3"
    Rear tire - Specialized Ground Control, 2Bliss Ready, 60TPI, aramid bead, 29x2.3"
    Rims - Roval 29, alloy disc, 26mm wide, 32h

    Thanks in advance!

  47. #47
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    Burping shouldn't happen if you set up the tire correctly and don't go below certain pressure...
    I'm 175, running Scwhalbe RR on Stan's rims. 30 at the rear, 26-28 at the front.
    It may be a bit on the high side, but I rather be a bit above then below...
    In 2 years of running tubeless on 4 bikes, I had only one catastrophic burp, and it was probably my fault.
    I would never think about going back to tubes.
    Matter of fact, I just purchased Tubeless wheels for my Road bike as well...
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  48. #48
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    Thanks Stumpy for the info, I think I will go ahead with tubeless and give it a try!

    Quote Originally Posted by StumpyElite2010 View Post
    Burping shouldn't happen if you set up the tire correctly and don't go below certain pressure...
    I'm 175, running Scwhalbe RR on Stan's rims. 30 at the rear, 26-28 at the front.
    It may be a bit on the high side, but I rather be a bit above then below...
    In 2 years of running tubeless on 4 bikes, I had only one catastrophic burp, and it was probably my fault.
    I would never think about going back to tubes.
    Matter of fact, I just purchased Tubeless wheels for my Road bike as well...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpynerd View Post
    Running 32 psi front and back with tubes. Im 200 and have not had any pinch flats or problems.
    Wow! I predict a pinch flat in the near future! I'm 230-ish, back in the olden days when I ran tubes, I had to run 55 psi (rear) to avoid pinch flats.

    Is it rocky where you ride?

  50. #50
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    I just switched over to tubeless today. Did it mainly to avoid getting so many flats. Just for shi&ts though I weighed both of my wheels before and after. Lost 7-8 ounces of my wheelset. Now my 29er wheels weigh less than my old 26er!

  51. #51
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    Got a questions for you guys. I just pulled the front tire off my 2013 FSR Stump Jumper. The side of the tires say 2 Bliss Ready and the rims are taped with tape (23mm wide) with the same logo, 2 Bliss Ready (see pics). I also have a roll of Stan yellow tape that is 21mm wide. Do I need to remove this tape and replace with the Stans? Is the 2mm difference gonna matter? I am ready to go tubeless but not sure if I am ready to go or need to re-tape.

    Big bonus! the stems I got with the bike have removable cores
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tube vs.Tubeless Weight Analysis-img_20121115_193342.jpg  

    Tube vs.Tubeless Weight Analysis-img_20121115_193316.jpg  

    Tube vs.Tubeless Weight Analysis-img_20121115_193501.jpg  

    Last edited by panicstop; 11-15-2012 at 09:37 PM.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I just switched over to tubeless today. Did it mainly to avoid getting so many flats. Just for shi&ts though I weighed both of my wheels before and after. Lost 7-8 ounces of my wheelset. Now my 29er wheels weigh less than my old 26er!
    IMO, shedding weight is NOT the main reason for going tubeless.
    Avoiding Flats and increasing the contact point surface is the biggest bonus.
    Don't forget to fill with Sealant every 3 months or so.
    Best way is to use the valves with the removable core and inject the fluid from the valve without cracking open the sidewall.
    Prior to injection you can rotate the wheel so the valve is at 6:00, remove the core and use a plastic straw to inspect if there is any sealant left.





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  53. #53
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    Ok, went ahead and converted and all seems well so far. Tires are holding pressure and no leaks. Did not use extra tape but stayed with the rim tape that came on them OEM.
    Currently have ~30psi F/R, my wieght is 182 no gear. We will see... Here's the instructions I found on Specialized web site. http://service.specialized.com/colla...tion-Guide.pdf


    BTW - how are you guys measuring your pressures? Digital presta gauges??

  54. #54
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    BTW - how are you guys measuring your pressures? Digital presta gauges??

    I just measure it by feel. I just squeeze the tire until it feels right for the terrain. It took me a bit to get that figured out.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by panicstop View Post


    BTW - how are you guys measuring your pressures? Digital presta gauges??
    Amazon.com: Topeak D2 SmartGauge: Sports & Outdoors

    Reliable - recommended.
    You'll be amazed how much you can be mistaken judging air pressure by feeling it by hand.
    Don't risk an air burp... make sure your ir pressure is dialed before EVERY ride.
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  56. #56
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    OMG I will kill myself if anyone will advertise this crap topeak tire pressure gauge again Do not buy this, it does not work and if you search google you will find many people having problems with it, I even saw some people complaining on this forum please stay away.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhead View Post
    OMG I will kill myself if anyone will advertise this crap topeak tire pressure gauge again Do not buy this, it does not work and if you search google you will find many people having problems with it, I even saw some people complaining on this forum please stay away.
    Please don't kill yourself
    I don't advertise it, but since I use it on a regular base for a year and it works flawlessly I feel that I can recommends it to a fellow rider.

    Check out Amazon - it got 41 reviews, out of them, only 5 people gave it 2 and 3 stars...
    There is even a video of a user showing how to use it correctly...
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  58. #58
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    Thanks Stumpy, I did get a gauge, name not mentioned , and have to agree that for me squeezing the tire doesn't quite do the job!

    Have with nearly 40 miles on tubeless tires I have had no issues and by running the lower tire pressures I also see the benefit of it being easier on the hands too! I'm running 28 psi F/R with a rider weight of 180.

  59. #59
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    Mounting the tires tubeless can be a real challenge if you don't have an air compressor. My experience:

    1. S-Works Ground Control 29x2.1 and 29x2.3 on Roval alloy (stock Stumpjumper) wheels -- no problem. Mounted easily and sealed with a floor pump on the first try. Took only a few minutes.

    2. Maxxis Ignitor EXO 29x2.1 on Stan's Flows, mounted with floor pump, took a little effort but it was pretty easy. Sealed very well, a good tire (used on the front), hardly any sealant evaporated in 2 months.

    3. Maxxis Crossmark 29x2.1 on Stan's Flows, mounted with floor pump, took a vigorous effort and fiddling with the rim for a while to get the bead to seat. This was not an EXO tire and most of the sealant evaporated in 2 months (there was a bit of visible sidewall weeping from time to time).

    4. Schwalbe Nobby Nic 29x2.25 and 29.25 on Stan's Flows -- totally hopeless with floor pump. Air compressor did not have a presta valve attachment, so was useless. The tire felt rather loose on the rim (I could spin it on the rim) and simply did not want to seal up. I finally gave up, poured out the sealant, and installed tubes so I could go for a ride. I will switch them back to tubeless once I get access to an air compressor.

    I was running the tubeless Maxxis tires above at fairly low pressure, about 24 psi front/28 psi rear. But the instructors at a recent clinic were adamant that this sacrifices control and is too low for me (I weigh 215lbs with gear), and recommended I run 40 psi, even on relatively technical terrain. I was surprised, particularly given all I have read about the alleged advantages, bigger contact point, added suspension etc. of running low pressure. These guys clearly are expert all-mountain/downhill riders who know their stuff, so I had to trust them. The bike is bumpier with the higher pressure but at least thus far I do think it tracks better through bumps and hard turns
    Last edited by J-Flo; 11-25-2012 at 04:53 AM.

  60. #60
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    Like mentioned before, must add sealant every few months. BUT, I always crack open the side wall to inject more because you will notice a funny looking hard ball of sealant that has dried up. It's a good idea to remove it.

  61. #61
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    Thanks for the great weight info. As a additional data point, I just went tubeless this week on a 2013 Specialized Camber Comp. First ride today. Huge improvement in traction, control, and smoother ride. Even rolled faster on my East coast root infested home trail. I retained the OEM red rim tape and Ground Control tires. Simply added Stan's stems with removable cores and used 1 1/2 small bottles of Stans sealant. By removing the 5 1/2 ounce OEM tube, adding the 1/3 ounce Stan's stem, and adding 3 3/4 ounces (in weight) of Stans I saved only 1 3/12oz on the rear. With a heavier front tube I saved about 3 1/4 ounces. I had zero trouble with the beads seating using a small compressor. I put the Stan's sealant in though the removable core stems--also easy. After just one ride today, I can tell I am impressed with the increased traction, smoother ride, and improved control. I gained 1/2 to 1 mile in moving average today, just from this one change to my bike. And I was sick today. Only time will tell whether going tubeless will be problematic, but right now I don't plan on going back!

  62. #62
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    Great data point. Thanks!
    '12 S-Works Stumpjumper carbon HT
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyrides07 View Post
    EPICFSR, why do you like running 35 psi? If its because of stopping pinch flats, guess what? NO PINCH FLATS WITH TUBELESS! .

    This is not true. I have had several tires (Not a Specialized tire that I can recall) Get small snake bites just above the bead where the tire bead meets the sidewall. This is the tubeless equivilant of a pinch flat. I do get about 95% less flats running tubeless with stans, but it is still possible to pinch flat with low pressure.
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  64. #64
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    Interesting thread. Would have been interesting if the OP had captured the weight of the removed tubes. I have a SJ 2013 Elite, and similar to pedalwheezer & panicstop, the OEM tubes only weighed 5.0 & 5.5 oz and the wheels came the yellow rim strips. After adding 3oz (fluid) of Stans, I saved ~50g per tire. The front tire went from 2055g to 2006g (the scale could measure down to 0.25 oz).

    Between the low weight tubes and reasonably weight wheels (i.e., my Elite SJ has Control Trail 29 wheels which are 1800g), to loose much more weight, will require a reasonably large investment.

    Actually, as the tires weigh 755g (Purg. Ctrl 2.3 2Bliss) and 710g (Ground Ctrl 2Bliss), there may be an opportunity to lighten those if I go with some Schwable tires...

    As far as the tire pressure that a rider uses, it is tied pretty closely to ones weight (assuming we all had the same riding style and terrain) -- as I weigh 210-215 lbs when I ride, I typically run around 30lbs of pressure.

  65. #65
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    Hi guys im going tubeless for the first time ever so im a bit freaked out about it as i ride a lot of tarmac and some trails and dirt road kind of terrain so i im gonna buy the continental sealant as it is the one my lbs has i also bought the specialized floor pump the one little more costly is that enough to inflate a tubeless tire or do i need a compressor?
    Also can i use different pressure depending on where i ride?
    I am bit torn between using my current tires a S-works fast track in front and a fast track control rear if go tubeless with those i lower the weight of the bike by some grams but if i go tubeless on my new S-works Ground control 2.1 those might add some to the weight instead but i get a bit better grip in the woods and other off road areas.
    So go tube less with the ones on the bike or the new never ridden ones?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PekkaS-works View Post
    So go tube less with the ones on the bike or the new never ridden ones?
    Either. The thing you will find is that tubeless rides faster, particularly as you can lower pressures further than with tubes. FWIW I did a race 2 weeks ago with a lot of very hard and dry farmland to traverse. Lowering pressures in this situation is much faster than having higher pressures.

    Also fwiw I have ridden tubeless for about 10 years. In that time I have only had 2-3 punctures.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiwi View Post
    Either. The thing you will find is that tubeless rides faster, particularly as you can lower pressures further than with tubes. FWIW I did a race 2 weeks ago with a lot of very hard and dry farmland to traverse. Lowering pressures in this situation is much faster than having higher pressures.

    Also fwiw I have ridden tubeless for about 10 years. In that time I have only had 2-3 punctures.
    Wow that sounds great i am convinced already but i just dont know which tire set to go with, and i can lower and add air as i can do with tubes inside i mean more pressure on tarmac rides and less off road?

    this is gonna be Epic in more than 1 way

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PekkaS-works View Post
    Wow that sounds great i am convinced already but i just dont know which tire set to go with, and i can lower and add air as i can do with tubes inside i mean more pressure on tarmac rides and less off road?
    chose a tyre as you normally would - tubeless or tubed is of little consequence. Choose a tread pattern for the front and the rear that makes sense for the terrain you regularly ride. I choose a good traction tyre with good rolling characteristics for the rear and one optimised for cornering grip which rolls well for the front. I like the FastTrak but find they don't handle loamy/sandy soil particularly well. I now have a Ron on the front and a Crossmark on the rear of my Epic.

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