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  1. #1
    Mud Boy
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    Triad vs RP23-06 Stumpy

    got the first mtb ride of the season in today,a nice 20 mile local loop. I wanted to start a new thread instead of bumping the old one's, so here goes.....

    Bike; 2006 Stumpy FSR, base frame up build, 05 Vanilla R-Pushed, king, Thomson X4 stem, XT cranks, XT FD,XT cass, Sram X9 RD, Sram triggers, Avid Speed Dial levers, Avid mechanicals with Power Cordz fiber cables, very sweet. 03 S Works wheelset, Mavic X317's with Hugi 240's, Roll X Pro's D2's with Stan's, and a Rival SL saddle, Specialized seatpost, clamp, mid rise bar, grip's, as well as Ritchet stubby bar ends. 28.25 lbs on the Ultimate digital scale-bottle cage and cyclometer included.

    I rode the Stumpy all last year with the Triad, and the Vanilla set at 4" of travel. I fiddled with the Triad almost constantly. Mid season I sent it to Push to have it serviced, seal's, nitrogen charge, and fluid, that's all the service they would perform on the 06 version of the Triad. When I got the shock back it was different, but not much better. It worked best in open mode all the time, but would ride too far into it's stroke. I continued to fiddle with psi, and the damn cheesy lever. I finally got an RP23 from a Cdale Rush around December.

    I got two chances to ride the bike with the 23 installed in early January. We had a great warm spell here in Central New York, and I got about 30 miles in. Within the first few pedal strokes, I could tell the 23 was light years ahead of the Triad. Very frim under pedaling, great acceleration, much more responsive to trail impacts, and the bike rode higher, cause the 23 didn't sag so much into it's stroke. At the end of the second ride, the 23 stuck down...

    Move ahead to spring here in Central New York. I did the air sleeve maintenance on the
    23, bumped the Vanilla back out to 5" travel, and finally got the Roll X D2's to seal with Stan. That is alot of variables to consider on the first ride, although I have used Stan for many seasons, I just couldn't get the D2's to go tubeless when I got the new set mid season last year..

    So...here we go. I set the sag for both the 23 and the Vanilla according to Fox. To get the correct sag from the 23, I put in 200psi, that's about 10# above my riding weight with gear. I backed the Propedal lever down to level 2, I had only tried level 3 last time out. The bike felt a little higher in front-remember, I now have 5" travel up front instead of 4, but that sensation would fade. I feel pretty comfortable with the psi on the 23, I used most all the travel, but I think I could slow the rbound down another click. The climbing was great, I didn't notice the longer travel front fork, didn't have to search for an efficient position. Stan helped here too I'm sure.

    So, advantages with the RP23 vs the Triad. Massive improvement in pedaling efficiency and especially acceleration, great traction and ability to hold the line while climbing too. But the best advantage so far, the bike performs great with the 5" stroke fork. Definately still has an XC feel to the geometry, steering was very sweet indeed.

    I have quite a few road miles in this year, so my legs are strong, time now to work on the bike handling skills again. The 23 and the bumped out travel on the Vanilla, just raised the competency of the chassis even more. Now I'm more the weekest than before, gotta get busy, the next ride is Sunday

  2. #2
    arc
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    I got rid of the triad too, went with the 7.875x2 RP23. I weigh 200 pounds and run 150 psi in the shock (ran about 210 in the triad), strange how a quarter inch of shock stroke changes the pressures so much. I have propedal turned off and see no need to use it, maybe the chain tension in combination with the different swing-arm angle does a good job of canceling the bob.

    I put a float 140 on the front of the bike, the taller front matches the rear well. Steers great and I love being able to lean over in a fast turn and keep pedaling. Can pedal over more rocks and logs too. Bottom bracket is 13.5 inches high, and feels like I'm riding 2 inches higher than last year.

    Some of the change is the longer shock, and I think some is from the RP23 riding higher in its travel. Did you notice this as well?

  3. #3
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    This should be an interesting thread.

    I'd be keen to see how the Triad compares if you retrofit it after riding on the RP23 for a couple of months.

    At least with the second shock as a back-up, getting warranty for a stuck down new one shouldn't be such a drama. (can't believe this is still happening)

    I did a 24hr race last weekend (in a 4 person team) on a course I wasn't used to. It had quite a few sections with hard packed rutted and rocky single track. I was really surprised how often my heels were hitting the ground. I guess fatigue was making me sit more heavily in the saddle than I normally would have. I think the Triad was using so much of it's stroke coping with the terain that the low bottom bracket was exacerbated. A slightly higher BB would have been appreciated.

    Having said that, I finished up in a far better physical condidtion than I ever would have on my old hardtail, and I know the Stumpy saved me quite a few times when I suffered my own 'brain fade'.

    Cheers.
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  4. #4
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    My Triad is hanging on the wall just in case I have any problems with the RP23. But to tell you the truth, if I have problems with the 23, I'll probably just ride my hardtail because I've really gotten used to the bike with the 23.
    I finally had a chance to ride a fairly technical trail with the RP23 last weekend. It did great. I'm sure the Triad would have bottomed and bobbed its way through, but I don't like that kind of performance.
    To anyone out there who may be considering the RP23 as a replacement for the Triad, do it, you won't be sorry.
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  5. #5
    Mud Boy
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    rode with two 06 FSR comps today

    I had the oppourtunity to chat and ride with these two guys for almost three hours. This was the start of their second season on the bikes. Both were older guys like me, good skills, and fitness. Anyway, one had a Triad that was stuck down, he kept saying that he just didn't put any air in it today, but it didn't even extend out when he was off of it. He fiddled with it all last season, never felt right to him.

    The other guy, I road behind him twice, holy $hit, did my Stumpy REALLY bob that much on technical singletrack? No wonder I spanked my pedals off of everything. I just couldn't follow him anymore, I kept looking at the shock and all the compression and wasn't concentrating enough on the trail.

    Rider number two, was completely happy with the Triad.

    My Triad is in my bike bag, I bring it with me, along with my tools. If the Rp23 ever gets stuck down again, I just might wheel/limp back into the parking lot and change it out again. Hell, then again, I just might wrap a towel around the base of the 23 and unscrew the airsleev on the bike, burp out the air and go.

    Anyway, ride number 2 of the season, a 27 member club ride, lots of starting and stopping, hundred's of log overs and technical bridges. I gotta back off the psi some more on the 23 to soften the ride a little more, but...with the 5" stroke up front, and a competent platform out back, it's gonna be a good year.

    I love this bike. That RP23 saved me from spending thousands of $$ on a brain Stumpy.

  6. #6
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    The RP23's are on backorder right now from Cannondale

  7. #7
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    The RP23's are on backorder right now from Cannondale
    That sucks.
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  8. #8
    Mud Boy
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    well..don't forget Push

    you can still have Push provide an RP23 and shorten the stroke to the 1.75 required for the 06 Stumpy. They might sell you one without the additional custom tuning.

    Has anyone ever checked with Fox to see if they would shorten the travel for you? They do sell direct, no discount from full retail though.

    There are other options out there...

  9. #9
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    I'm sure Lumbee1 is going to wait for Mark to come through. They cut some decent deals for us.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd
    I'm sure Lumbee1 is going to wait for Mark to come through. They cut some decent deals for us.
    It was a little more convenient to get Bicycle Chain to pricematch

  11. #11
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    You know the guy I bought my Rush pull off from has sold two on eBay in the last two weeks, and is currently selling a third.

    I don't know where the hell he is getting them all. I am just imagining a stack of cannibalized Rush corpses in his garage.

    Anyway, I can verify that he is selling a quality product as I just bolted mine on this afternoon. When I first got it I was a little scared as the exposed shock body looked a lot longer than 1.75". But after some fumbling around with the reducers I threw it on to see anyway. Turns out that there is a bumper somewhere preventing it from compressing beyond the 45mm or 1.75". I guess Cannondale must just buy stroke reduced 7.5x2" shocks from Fox, and just not care about having an extra centimeter of superfluous shock body.

    Works great so far. The platform is infinitely better. Traction is great. The lever detent is nice and snappy. Switching between propedal levels is the only thing I don't like about it so far. You definitely would need to practice if you wanted to do this without getting off of your bike. Still getting it tuned to my weight, will write a more indepth review then.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab
    You know the guy I bought my Rush pull off from has sold two on eBay in the last two weeks, and is currently selling a third.

    I don't know where the hell he is getting them all. I am just imagining a stack of cannibalized Rush corpses in his garage.

    Anyway, I can verify that he is selling a quality product as I just bolted mine on this afternoon. When I first got it I was a little scared as the exposed shock body looked a lot longer than 1.75". But after some fumbling around with the reducers I threw it on to see anyway. Turns out that there is a bumper somewhere preventing it from compressing beyond the 45mm or 1.75". I guess Cannondale must just buy stroke reduced 7.5x2" shocks from Fox, and just not care about having an extra centimeter of superfluous shock body.

    Works great so far. The platform is infinitely better. Traction is great. The lever detent is nice and snappy. Switching between propedal levels is the only thing I don't like about it so far. You definitely would need to practice if you wanted to do this without getting off of your bike. Still getting it tuned to my weight, will write a more indepth review then.
    half_man_half_scab, can you take a picture of the RP23 and Triad side by side?

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    I'll try and do it this evening. Gotta go to school in ten minutes.

  14. #14
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    It was a little more convenient to get Bicycle Chain to pricematch
    Well, it's good to see they did after they told you full list on the thing the first time.
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  15. #15
    Mud Boy
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    Hey Lumbee1

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    half_man_half_scab, can you take a picture of the RP23 and Triad side by side?

    what do you hope to see from the picture? The Rush RP23 has 2" of shaft exposed, the travel reducer is at the top of the shock. So full travel of the shortened 23 will leave your travel indicator about 1/4" from the end.

    The Triad only has the 1.75" of shaft exposed, give or take. The E2E is identical, it's a direct bolt up...and it's heaven baby!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by magdaddy
    what do you hope to see from the picture? The Rush RP23 has 2" of shaft exposed, the travel reducer is at the top of the shock. So full travel of the shortened 23 will leave your travel indicator about 1/4" from the end.

    The Triad only has the 1.75" of shaft exposed, give or take. The E2E is identical, it's a direct bolt up...and it's heaven baby!
    That's what I thought (1/4" unused shaft). I just wanted to see it as a visual reference. I am ordering one as soon as they are available.

  17. #17
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    So I went out and rode the exact same loop on my bike with the Triad that I rode on the Expert with the Brain shock.

    I realized exactly what the Triad is missing and what the Brain shock and RP23 have. The Triad doesn't have snap. When you really mash the pedals the bike accelerates but slowly. It doesn't have the quick response because the bike squats and sucks away the power in the pedal stroke which makes the ride mushy. The best analogy I could come up with is that the Triad is like running in sand, propedal is soft sand and open mode is deep beach sand (lockout is worthless). The Brain is like soft packed singletrack. You can't sprint or run efficiently in soft sand while soft packed singletrack has some give but running is much easier.

    Now if the propedal on the Triad is there to eliminate bob, it does the job and does it quite well. The difference between the propedal on the Brain and I am sure the RP23, is that they both also eliminate the squat that our bikes suffer from. The Triad performs great when coasting and eats bumps as good as the Brain. But any pedaling on the Triad immediately causes the rear to squat. The squat can be felt not only uphill but downhill and on flat terrain.

    I can't wait to get my RP23. My next upgrade is to sell every bit of my Shimano drivetrain. The X9 shifter and X0 derailleur is soo much better.

  18. #18
    arc
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    Lumbee, I think what you are feeling is caused by two different things. The first is the Triad has poor compression damping and wallows into midstroke too quickly, making the rear suspension more reactive to pedaling forces. It would help if the air sleeve had less volume so pressures ramped up quicker.

    The other factor is the rear suspension on stumpys in general may be designed a bit wrong to deal with pedaling forces, it seems to work better with the rear axle a little lower. The guys posting reviews of the Bet-d link are always positive. I put a longer shock on my bike and it pedals great. Tried running propel on the lightest setting once, and have not used it since. The only time I notice any bob is if I lower my air pressure too much. Maybe we can badger Magdaddy into test riding with his propedal turned off. We're about the same weight, and ran similar pressures in our triads so our riding style can't be too different. The only difference should be ride height related, and how the chain pull either tries to compress or extend the rear suspension, or hopefully has no effect at all.

    Switching to Sram shifting makes perfect sense as an upgrade. Its when you talk of having to wait for some non-standard oddball length shock to show up I get confused. I mean, its designed for a Cannondale, fer shame, fer shame. How can it possibly make a Stumpy better?

  19. #19
    JSQ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    So I went out and rode the exact same loop on my bike with the Triad that I rode on the Expert with the Brain shock.

    I realized exactly what the Triad is missing and what the Brain shock and RP23 have. The Triad doesn't have snap. When you really mash the pedals the bike accelerates but slowly. It doesn't have the quick response because the bike squats and sucks away the power in the pedal stroke which makes the ride mushy. The best analogy I could come up with is that the Triad is like running in sand, propedal is soft sand and open mode is deep beach sand (lockout is worthless). The Brain is like soft packed singletrack. You can't sprint or run efficiently in soft sand while soft packed singletrack has some give but running is much easier.

    Now if the propedal on the Triad is there to eliminate bob, it does the job and does it quite well. The difference between the propedal on the Brain and I am sure the RP23, is that they both also eliminate the squat that our bikes suffer from. The Triad performs great when coasting and eats bumps as good as the Brain. But any pedaling on the Triad immediately causes the rear to squat. The squat can be felt not only uphill but downhill and on flat terrain....
    I couldn't agree more ! I have owned a Stumpy fsr 100 mm with a RP3 shock and a S-works Stumpy 120 mm with a Septune. My current bike is a 2007 Epic Expert with a Brain fade shock. In my opinion my Epic is the best Specialized I've owned so far. The Epic accelerates instantly and there really isn't any wasted energy. The bike is so much more lively than my former 120 mm s-works. I hated the mushy feeling of the stumpy. The Epic feels like the perfect bike for me. The suspension isnt't super plush, but it works when you need it. I had a Giant Reign between my Stumpy and Epic, and I feel confident riding the same technical trails with my Epic as I did with my Reign. Of course with the Epic, you can't hit the obstacles as hard as with the reign, but still I'd say that the Epic's suspension feels more sophisticated and controlled than the 120 mm stumpy. In my opinion Specialized made a mistake, when they upped the travel to 120 mm on the stumpy. I think they should have changed the apperance of the Stumpy, when they upped the Stumpy's travel and I think a rocker link driven shock would perform better than the current design.

  20. #20
    Mud Boy
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    test ride today

    [QUOTE=arc ) Maybe we can badger Magdaddy into test riding with his propedal turned off. We're about the same weight, and ran similar pressures in our triads so our riding style can't be too different. The only difference should be ride height related, and how the chain pull either tries to compress or extend the rear suspension, or hopefully has no effect at all.


    Arc...gonna try that and more. I'm starting to think I have too much psi in my 23. I'm gonna do some test runs today, and continue to fine tune it some more. I'll definately do a pass with the propedal off-in open mode, and report back. The place I'm going-Highland Forest, has some very nice rough technical singletrack-both to climb and descend.

    We have a great stretch of sunny and warm weather here in Central New York, so I'm gonna get in some serious miles.

  21. #21
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    23 tuning contd...

    I didn't get to ride Highkand Forest like I wanted. I had a technical section of trail in mind that would have been perfect. I was just gonna run up and down , make adjustments then repeat. That section of trail, known as Rippin, was the worst performer when the Triad was on my Stumpy. I always spanked the pedals too numerous times to count while climbing it.

    Anyway, there is a mating pair of Gos hawks that have a nest right on the trail. The whole area is off limit's. Seems that those hawks are the most aggressive in the bird world. If you get within 150' of the nest you WILL be attacked. A couple of hikers have been attacked, one severely injured. I haven't looked these birds up yet, but I'm told they are big.

    So. I went to another local ride spot. I think I am getting closer on the psi...I was way off. I thought I got the proper amount of sag at 200 psi, I must have been wrong. I'm gonna do some more nutzing around with psi/sag in the garage today. Anyway, I settled with 170 psi for the ride yesterday, definately softened the ride up some. I rode the first half of the loop in open mode without realizing it, the bike felt responsive under acceleration, but did bob just a little.

    In pro pedal mode, on setting #2, the bike firmed up noticably. I have to say it's almost snappy under acceleration. The second half of this loop is almost all climbing, many switchbacks and very steep short shutes. I just turned the pedals over and up she went. I didn't have Stan's in the new tires at the end of last season, but I did have Stans in the old tire set for the beginning half with the Triad.

    The bike climbs so much better it amazing, and that with the full 5" stroke fork-remember it's a Vanilla, so no travel adjustment available.

    I think I'm closer on the psi now, probably within 10psi, looking to start to balance the bike front to rear now.

    Arc, your lower psi(150) probably doesn't directly compare because of the longer stroke and e2e of your shock. Mopartodd, what psi are you running, and what is your riding weight?

    Anyway, took a mental health holiday today. Gonna do yard work around the house, get the mower ready. The weather forcast is absolutely beautiful for the next 7 days. The trails were in very good shape yesterday, so an additional week of warm/dry weather will only make them better.

  22. #22
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    I running around 240 PSI and setting #3 PP. My riding weight is 235# and so far I've used about 3/4 of the travel during an reasonably technical ride. If it would get technical, I think I would probably use the majority of the available travel. I've not played around too much with the PSI at this point. The Fox sag setting seems to be good for me and I'm really liking the #2 and 3 PP settings.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd
    I running around 240 PSI and setting #3 PP. My riding weight is 235# and so far I've used about 3/4 of the travel during an reasonably technical ride. If it would get technical, I think I would probably use the majority of the available travel. I've not played around too much with the PSI at this point. The Fox sag setting seems to be good for me and I'm really liking the #2 and 3 PP settings.
    Where are you riding Todd?

  24. #24
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    CT.on the weekends when the wife wants me out of the house. Then I load up and go to Umstead for a short loop ride to top it off.
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    Took her out for a longer ride today.

    I've been fiddling with the PSI. My weight with gear is about 185-190. I had the shock set to 170 PSI. I use most of the travel when in open with this setup.

    For climbing I throw the rp23 into propedal 2 right now. Honestly there is no bob. In fact it's a little harsh on rocky technical climbs. I set to open for downhill segments and am pretty pleased. However, in the 2nd half of my ride the shock started chirping. It would be fine with a single big hit, but a series of them caused the shock to make a hi pitched wooshing sound. It seems to only occur in the latter half of the stroke (most extreme compression). This is occurring in full open.

    Going off of small jumps is pure joy now. The shock has turned my bike into a gazel. Slight preload before, and I just fly off of ramped rocks. The shock also helps with my pseudo gimpy bunny hops.

    I'm going to lube the shock body to see if that will make the chirping go away. Also I am going to try some rides in propedal 1 to see if it works better than 2 for technical climbs. If I decide I don't like it, I will take out another 5psi and try it in 2 again. I don't really see any point in trying 3, as I just don't think I'd be able to get it to compress.

  26. #26
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    another 25 miles today

    Im at 165psi now, propedal #2, and three clicks from slowest rebound. I think I found the sweetspot. I had 170 psi in on the last ride, the 5 psi less softened up the bike a little more, with no real decrease in pedalling performance. The bike did seem a little lower in the rear, and I did notice the front end wandering a little more on the steep stuff.

    My brother in law rode with us today, and he commented how well-ie...stable, lack of bob, the rear shock was acting. Rock solid still on the climbs, but the Vanilla front fork-lacking a platform, is the weak link now for big out of the saddle efforts.

    I think I gotta fool with my tire pressure now, both front and rear. I'm waiting for an accurate presta pressure gauge from my local shop, to fine tune. I can much easier put exactly 110psi in the road tires than I can put 34psi in the mtn tires. The spot on psi fr and rr is gonna sweeten up this ride even more.

    The bike feels sooo good right now. The tire pressure's are giving me some trouble, but when the gauge comes, I'll nail that down too.

  27. #27
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    My RP23 is on the way. Should be here Friday

  28. #28
    Mud Boy
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    congratulation's

    prepare to be amazed!

  29. #29
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    My RP23 is on the way. Should be here Friday
    prepare to be amazed!
    Amen.
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    Ended up taking out another 5psi to leave the shock at 165 PSI with a rider weight of 190ish. It was a great experience. Propedal 2 for climbs had just the right amount of activity without any bob. Open was nice and plush, especially on 1' drop offs to flat. I can't say I like climbing in open as much as with the propedal on, but RP23 open is better than the Triad's propedal IMO. I'm a happy camper now.

  31. #31
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    Yep, I think it's the best "bike" money I spent in the last year by a long-shot.
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  32. #32
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    7.5"x1.75" RP23 shock

    Quote Originally Posted by arc
    I got rid of the triad too, went with the 7.875x2 RP23. I weigh 200 pounds and run 150 psi in the shock (ran about 210 in the triad), strange how a quarter inch of shock stroke changes the pressures so much. I have propedal turned off and see no need to use it, maybe the chain tension in combination with the different swing-arm angle does a good job of canceling the bob.

    I put a float 140 on the front of the bike, the taller front matches the rear well. Steers great and I love being able to lean over in a fast turn and keep pedaling. Can pedal over more rocks and logs too. Bottom bracket is 13.5 inches high, and feels like I'm riding 2 inches higher than last year.

    Some of the change is the longer shock, and I think some is from the RP23 riding higher in its travel. Did you notice this as well?
    Does anyone know where to find a 7.5"x1.75" RP23 shock

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Does anyone know where to find a 7.5"x1.75" RP23 shock
    You could try breaking out a tooth and asking the tooth fairy to bring you one. Of course contacting your LBS for a Cannondale RUSH RP23 or looking on ebay for a RUSH RP23 would be much easier.

  34. #34
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    that's been well covered

    to save you time by searching the site for the MANY past posts...
    Fox sells 7.5x2.0 RP23 that have to have the stroke shortened
    Push sells custom tuned RP23 with the stroke shortened
    2007 Cannondale Rush's have 7.5x1.75 shocks on all models.

    A few have gotten their RP23's from ebay-that were taken from the Cdale's. Some have ordered them from their local CDale dealer. and I know one went thru Push.

    Those are your options for the 06 Stumpy FSR replacement shocks

  35. #35
    z71
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    I have a Fox Float R that came off a Cannondale Rush for sale. It works alot better than the Triad did that I had. I would trade it for parts also.

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    Though he isn't selling any currently off of ebay, the ebay user diego_0bikes has sold 3 RP23 's that were Rush pull-offs in the last month. He has been the only ebay supplier of the shock in the desired dimensions I've seen in the last few months of my observation. I would try sending him a PM on his ebay account.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab
    Though he isn't selling any currently off of ebay, the ebay user diego_0bikes has sold 3 RP23 's that were Rush pull-offs in the last month. He has been the only ebay supplier of the shock in the desired dimensions I've seen in the last few months of my observation. I would try sending him a PM on his ebay account.
    Half_man_half_scab, how is the ride on the RP23. I just finished installing the RP23. Initial ride was around the neighborhood and didn't reveal any major differences. I did notice that the brake line doesn't lift up and down like before. With the Triad before, the brake line would lift away from the frame when the bike would squat in the rear.

  38. #38
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    RP23 for Stumpjumper

    Quote Originally Posted by magdaddy
    to save you time by searching the site for the MANY past posts...
    Fox sells 7.5x2.0 RP23 that have to have the stroke shortened
    Push sells custom tuned RP23 with the stroke shortened
    2007 Cannondale Rush's have 7.5x1.75 shocks on all models.

    A few have gotten their RP23's from ebay-that were taken from the Cdale's. Some have ordered them from their local CDale dealer. and I know one went thru Push.

    Those are your options for the 06 Stumpy FSR replacement shocks
    Thanks for the detailed answer
    I live in Sunnyvale, CA and tried calling several Cdale shops without any luck
    (they never seems to have it in stock)

    I guess PUSH is the best option

  39. #39
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    If you want to go the LBS route, none of them are going to have it in stock. You have to tell them, "I want a replacement shock for a Rush, could you please order one?" And then they special order it.

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    Back to the comparison:

    Rode around late last night again looking for anything to test the shock. The only thing I found was a short sidewalk with a 1 foot drop. I bunny hopped off the end just to give me some additional height but it was still difficult to compare the landing to the Triad.

    The one thing I did notice was that the RP23 in open mode performs better than the Triad in propedal mode. I weigh 195lbs and ran the Triad at 230psi. I read the Fox manual on the RP23 and sag should be 11mm. I set my RP23 to 160psi with 8 to 9mm of sag. This afternoon I will be testing it on some fast and rooty singletrack. I might reduce the pressure down to 155psi.

    When I removed all the air from my Triad, the shock body sucked up into the air sleeve. The i2i before removing the air was 7.5. There must have been just enough air to leak past the seal into the positive chamber to cause it to suck up.

  41. #41
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    Back to the comparison:

    Rode around late last night again looking for anything to test the shock. The only thing I found was a short sidewalk with a 1 foot drop. I bunny hopped off the end just to give me some additional height but it was still difficult to compare the landing to the Triad.

    The one thing I did notice was that the RP23 in open mode performs better than the Triad in propedal mode. I weigh 195lbs and ran the Triad at 230psi. I read the Fox manual on the RP23 and sag should be 11mm. I set my RP23 to 160psi with 8 to 9mm of sag. This afternoon I will be testing it on some fast and rooty singletrack. I might reduce the pressure down to 155psi.

    When I removed all the air from my Triad, the shock body sucked up into the air sleeve. The i2i before removing the air was 7.5. There must have been just enough air to leak past the seal into the positive chamber to cause it to suck up.

  42. #42
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    RP23 for Stumpy

    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab
    If you want to go the LBS route, none of them are going to have it in stock. You have to tell them, "I want a replacement shock for a Rush, could you please order one?" And then they special order it.
    10x for the tip mate

  43. #43
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    7.875x2 RP23

    Quote Originally Posted by arc
    I got rid of the triad too, went with the 7.875x2 RP23. I weigh 200 pounds and run 150 psi in the shock (ran about 210 in the triad), strange how a quarter inch of shock stroke changes the pressures so much. I have propedal turned off and see no need to use it, maybe the chain tension in combination with the different swing-arm angle does a good job of canceling the bob.

    I put a float 140 on the front of the bike, the taller front matches the rear well. Steers great and I love being able to lean over in a fast turn and keep pedaling. Can pedal over more rocks and logs too. Bottom bracket is 13.5 inches high, and feels like I'm riding 2 inches higher than last year.

    Some of the change is the longer shock, and I think some is from the RP23 riding higher in its travel. Did you notice this as well?
    Hi arc,
    Do you think a 7.875x2 rear shock will fit my 120 float fork?
    Anyway I think the '06 Stumpy frame does not support a fork greater than 130 mm

  44. #44
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    Still have that float r for sale/trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by z71
    I have a Fox Float R that came off a Cannondale Rush for sale. It works alot better than the Triad did that I had. I would trade it for parts also.

    If so, how much, or what parts are you looking for?

    zurcmax1@gmail.com

  45. #45
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by z71
    I have a Fox Float R that came off a Cannondale Rush for sale. It works alot better than the Triad did that I had. I would trade it for parts also.
    Thanks but I really need the RP23

  46. #46
    arc
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Hi arc,
    Do you think a 7.875x2 rear shock will fit my 120 float fork?
    Anyway I think the '06 Stumpy frame does not support a fork greater than 130 mm
    Thats strange, my 06 stumpy supports it just fine.

    I don't break enough stuff to worry about warranty, and the way things usually break isn't covered by warranty anyhow. At the end of last season, it came down to selling the bike or upgrading it to work the way i wanted it to. I decided to keep it, but upgrade with standard parts in case I ever scratch the custom frame itch. If the shock link breaks, a new one's getting made. If the frame breaks, I'll phone Yeti or Turner before Specialized. And the bike rides so much better now, I wouldn't care if I cut the life of the frame in half. Also my rear suspension will never compress as far as a bike with the stock length rear shock, so the slackest possible head tube angle will never get worse than stock, meaning frame stress should not get worse than stock.

    You can make the longer shock fit your frame, but it will take a little dremmel tool or file work to the shock link. When I tried it with my talas 130 it steered fine, but the front was low. I compensated by running more air pressure up front and less in the back. A bigger front tire or raising the stem would help level out things too. I didn't spend much riding time with the Talas and RP23, just enough to make a choice between dumping the Talas or getting it Pushed.

    You may want to grab that Float R. If you don't like it you can always get it re-tuned by Push. Cost should end up about the same and you wind up with a better performing shock.

  47. #47
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    RIDE REPORT:
    I will try to make this as easy to read as possible for a quick comparison.

    Grading: Triad / RP23

    Climbing - 40 / 100 - With the RP23 climbing was EASY. For a direct comparison there is a concrete bridge linking two trail systems. The bridge is 100+ feet long and has a nice incline to it. With the Triad it was also a slow slug fest and I hated the ride going over the bridge. With the RP23 I was halfway across before I remembered just how difficult the ride used to be. On the trail, I was climbing faster and easier than ever before. I could climb up to a switchback and still had enough energy to kick through the turn.

    Descending -100 / 90 and 80 / 100 - This one was odd. My Triad was setup perfectly and descending was smooth and plush. I am still tuning the RP23 and had the rebound set too fast. I need another few rides on the RP23 and get everything set perfect before I can comment on true comparison. The other score is for the fact that I had so much energy that downhill runs were much faster than on the Triad. Save energy going uphill and you will have more energy for blasting downhill.

    Flat track - 90 / 100 - With the efficiency of the propedal on the RP23, it was quite noticeable on the flat sections. The RP23 allowed faster riding while conserving energy. The Triad felt like it sucked away energy slowly. Sprinting through the flat sections also felt great and the bike accelerated like a hardtail.

    Bunny Hopping - 70 / 100 - On the RP23, bunny hopping is quick and springy. The bike feels lively and just wants to get airborne. On the other hand with the Triad, the press right before the spring would absorb the power. This required more effort from the spring to get any real height. Jumping will come later on. I don't think it will be hard to surpass the Triad since it pancakes at anything more than 1 foot.

    Summary:
    Climbing has dramatically improved on the Stumpjumper but more importantly I had more energy for everything else. At the end of 6.5 miles I felt like I could have ridden another 12. Nothing seemed to tire me out. Another neat feature I noticed was a heavy pedal stroke in the middle of a tight turn actually applied the power to the rear wheel and I could shoot out of the turn without losing momentum. In the same type of turn, the Triad would suck away the pedal stroke and all momentum was lost.

    Is the RP23 worth $300+? If you are on a budget, ride smooth XC with little elevation change, or would rather shuttle up than climb, this is not the shock for you. In my opinion, this was a very expensive upgrade that has noticeable benefits but that doesn't mean you should sell your first born to get one. For me and any serious riders, this is a MUST HAVE. Ride 20 miles on a Triad and you are ready for a beer and a nap. Ride 20 miles on a RP23, and you are looking for the next trail to tackle before it gets dark.

    I hope this helps

  48. #48
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    Wow! You only gave the RP23 a 40/100 on climbing?? I would say an easy 80 personally. I really enjoy the bike across a much wider range of riding terrain now than with the Triad. My Stumpy feels good everywhere, singletrack to fireroads, but it doesn't accelerate quite as good as a hardtail.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd
    Wow! You only gave the RP23 a 40/100 on climbing?? I would say an easy 80 personally. I really enjoy the bike across a much wider range of riding terrain now than with the Triad. My Stumpy feels good everywhere, singletrack to fireroads, but it doesn't accelerate quite as good as a hardtail.
    Sorry, the Grading is 40% Triad while the RP23 is 100%. I had to do it this way because on descending the Triad beat the RP23 because it was not completely tuned. Except for descents, the RP23 really is a perfect solution for the Stumpy. This is why I wanted to give a score to the Triad and then a score to the RP23.

  50. #50
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    nice review

    sounds like your Triad wa working lots better than mine...

    other evaluations to consider
    Technical singletrack-I spanked my pedals al the time, especially on the climbing portions. The RP23 has sooo much better compression dampening

    Stumpy rides higher-I was able to bump my Vanilla out to 130mm and not affect the climbing at all.

    Pay close attention to other Stumpy's with the Triad on group rides. Follow one, you won't believe the "bob"

    enjoy your new ride...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Sorry, the Grading is 40% Triad while the RP23 is 100%. I had to do it this way because on descending the Triad beat the RP23 because it was not completely tuned. Except for descents, the RP23 really is a perfect solution for the Stumpy. This is why I wanted to give a score to the Triad and then a score to the RP23.
    Sorry. My bad. I didn't get the grading. SHould have read your post a little better.
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    Thanks for the info!

    Quote Originally Posted by arc
    Thats strange, my 06 stumpy supports it just fine.

    I don't break enough stuff to worry about warranty, and the way things usually break isn't covered by warranty anyhow. At the end of last season, it came down to selling the bike or upgrading it to work the way i wanted it to. I decided to keep it, but upgrade with standard parts in case I ever scratch the custom frame itch. If the shock link breaks, a new one's getting made. If the frame breaks, I'll phone Yeti or Turner before Specialized. And the bike rides so much better now, I wouldn't care if I cut the life of the frame in half. Also my rear suspension will never compress as far as a bike with the stock length rear shock, so the slackest possible head tube angle will never get worse than stock, meaning frame stress should not get worse than stock.

    You can make the longer shock fit your frame, but it will take a little dremmel tool or file work to the shock link. When I tried it with my talas 130 it steered fine, but the front was low. I compensated by running more air pressure up front and less in the back. A bigger front tire or raising the stem would help level out things too. I didn't spend much riding time with the Talas and RP23, just enough to make a choice between dumping the Talas or getting it Pushed.

    You may want to grab that Float R. If you don't like it you can always get it re-tuned by Push. Cost should end up about the same and you wind up with a better performing shock.

  53. #53
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    Test results

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    RIDE REPORT:
    I will try to make this as easy to read as possible for a quick comparison.


    Is the RP23 worth $300+? If you are on a budget, ride smooth XC with little elevation change, or would rather shuttle up than climb, this is not the shock for you. In my opinion, this was a very expensive upgrade that has noticeable benefits but that doesn't mean you should sell your first born to get one. For me and any serious riders, this is a MUST HAVE. Ride 20 miles on a Triad and you are ready for a beer and a nap. Ride 20 miles on a RP23, and you are looking for the next trail to tackle before it gets dark.

    I hope this helps
    Thanks for the information
    Are these tests based on 7.5x1.75 RP23

  54. #54
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    Technical climbs

    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab
    Took her out for a longer ride today.

    I've been fiddling with the PSI. My weight with gear is about 185-190. I had the shock set to 170 PSI. I use most of the travel when in open with this setup.

    For climbing I throw the rp23 into propedal 2 right now. Honestly there is no bob. In fact it's a little harsh on rocky technical climbs. I set to open for downhill segments and am pretty pleased. However, in the 2nd half of my ride the shock started chirping. It would be fine with a single big hit, but a series of them caused the shock to make a hi pitched wooshing sound. It seems to only occur in the latter half of the stroke (most extreme compression). This is occurring in full open.

    Going off of small jumps is pure joy now. The shock has turned my bike into a gazel. Slight preload before, and I just fly off of ramped rocks. The shock also helps with my pseudo gimpy bunny hops.

    I'm going to lube the shock body to see if that will make the chirping go away. Also I am going to try some rides in propedal 1 to see if it works better than 2 for technical climbs. If I decide I don't like it, I will take out another 5psi and try it in 2 again. I don't really see any point in trying 3, as I just don't think I'd be able to get it to compress.
    I enjoy mostly climbing those rocky technical trails and the RP23 is on its way
    However, I got lost trying to understand how to tune its air pressure

    Does anyone have a "cookbook" for it?

    Thanks!!!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Thanks for the information
    Are these tests based on 7.5x1.75 RP23
    Yeap

    BTW, riding on the RP23 gets better and better. Descending matches the Triad. I still haven't hit any large jumps or drops. Climbing is better than I originally thought. And energy savings from propedal? let's just say I rode 12 miles the other day at a fairly fast pace and was up for more. I wanted to spend time with my daughter and called it quits for the day. The more I ride, the more I think this upgrade is a necessity for the 05 and 06 Stumpjumpers. I cannot comment on the 07 Stumpys.

    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Does anyone have a "cookbook" for it?
    Pump up the shock. Move the O-ring to the top of the shock. Sit on the bike slowly and do not bounce. Dismount and measure the sag. You want it as close to 11mm as possible.

    Less than 11mm? remove about 10psi from the shock, reset O-ring and check again.

    More than 11mm? add 10psi to the shock, reset O-ring and check again.

    I weigh 195. I put 150psi in the shock just as a starting point and got about 13mm of sag. 160psi and it went to 8 or 9mm of sag. Split the difference at 155psi and this seems to be perfect.

  56. #56
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    I have a triad and am looking to upgrade to RP23, but what is the reasoning for getting them off of c'dale besides the fact that who needs a c'dale anyways , but really I don't understand, does it have to come from a c'dale?
    Ballzonya!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Yeap

    BTW, riding on the RP23 gets better and better. Descending matches the Triad. I still haven't hit any large jumps or drops. Climbing is better than I originally thought. And energy savings from propedal? let's just say I rode 12 miles the other day at a fairly fast pace and was up for more. I wanted to spend time with my daughter and called it quits for the day. The more I ride, the more I think this upgrade is a necessity for the 05 and 06 Stumpjumpers. I cannot comment on the 07 Stumpys.
    I guess your shock was taken off a C'dale
    I took a look at what PUSH had to offer:
    • High Flow Vx Piston
    • Custom Vavled Compression Circuit
    • Custom Valved Rebound Circuit
    • Increased Propedal Range
    • Includes Mount Reducers for Direct Aftermarket Fit


    A new RP23 shock costs $400. PUSH tuned shock costs $500.
    Is it really worth the extra $100

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by YukonGT
    I have a triad and am looking to upgrade to RP23, but what is the reasoning for getting them off of c'dale besides the fact that who needs a c'dale anyways , but really I don't understand, does it have to come from a c'dale?
    That's because FOX makes RP23 for c'dale which fits the Stumpy frame, i.e. 7.5"x1.75".

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by YukonGT
    I have a triad and am looking to upgrade to RP23, but what is the reasoning for getting them off of c'dale besides the fact that who needs a c'dale anyways , but really I don't understand, does it have to come from a c'dale?
    If you look for a RP23 that is 7.5 i2i with a 1.75" stroke, you won't find one. But, the Cannondale Rush comes equipped with one. The solution, get a Cannondale Rush RP23 off ebay or have your LBS order a Cannondale Rush RP23. It is a perfect fit.

  60. #60
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    ahh cool. Yea the triad is fine, since the stumpy is my first full suspension bike but I can already tell that it is lesser quality then the rest. F**k you would think spending 2200 on a bike you would get a bike that you wouldn't be in a rush to upgrade the suspension on.
    Ballzonya!

  61. #61
    arc
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    I guess your shock was taken off a C'dale
    I took a look at what PUSH had to offer:
    • High Flow Vx Piston
    • Custom Vavled Compression Circuit
    • Custom Valved Rebound Circuit
    • Increased Propedal Range
    • Includes Mount Reducers for Direct Aftermarket Fit


    A new RP23 shock costs $400. PUSH tuned shock costs $500.
    Is it really worth the extra $100

    Seems like a good deal if they hit the tuning right . Leaves your old triad as a ready to go backup too. The downside is once you get the RP23 (its good right out of the box), you will soon realize the fork needs help. That shock will make it look bad. Better to put that $100 towards fixing the front.

    As far as setting up the shock, thats mostly trial and error. Its a pretty forgiving shock to tune. 10 psi steps work well and its a lot harder to bottom than the triad. I can run 150psi, propedal 1 or 170 psi, no propedal and be happy.

    Start with 15% less air than you used in the triad, rebound 3 clicks from wide open, propedal off and go for a ride. Try to focus on getting the rebound dialed in and getting used to how your bike handles. It will steer differently and you'll be able to hammer out of the saddle more. Once you get a feel for it, take a look at shock travel. Too much travel, add 10 pounds air and ride some more. How's it riding over rocks and roots? If its harsh and skittery, try less air. After that, if it feels soggy climbing or accelerating, try playing with propedal. Each step of propedal feels like you're adding about 10 pounds of air at the start of travel, and doesn't seem to affect overall travel.

    Keep an eye on what the front fork is doing. My talas RL made the back of the bike feel like it was mushy and bobbing. Adding air to the fork fixed that, but made it harsh on the rooty stuff. Tune more = ride more. Have fun.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc
    Seems like a good deal if they hit the tuning right . Leaves your old triad as a ready to go backup too. The downside is once you get the RP23 (its good right out of the box), you will soon realize the fork needs help. That shock will make it look bad. Better to put that $100 towards fixing the front.

    As far as setting up the shock, thats mostly trial and error. Its a pretty forgiving shock to tune. 10 psi steps work well and its a lot harder to bottom than the triad. I can run 150psi, propedal 1 or 170 psi, no propedal and be happy.

    Start with 15% less air than you used in the triad, rebound 3 clicks from wide open, propedal off and go for a ride. Try to focus on getting the rebound dialed in and getting used to how your bike handles. It will steer differently and you'll be able to hammer out of the saddle more. Once you get a feel for it, take a look at shock travel. Too much travel, add 10 pounds air and ride some more. How's it riding over rocks and roots? If its harsh and skittery, try less air. After that, if it feels soggy climbing or accelerating, try playing with propedal. Each step of propedal feels like you're adding about 10 pounds of air at the start of travel, and doesn't seem to affect overall travel.

    Keep an eye on what the front fork is doing. My talas RL made the back of the bike feel like it was mushy and bobbing. Adding air to the fork fixed that, but made it harsh on the rooty stuff. Tune more = ride more. Have fun.
    I have been impressed with the Float RL on my Stumpy. I have had to adjust the air pressure only twice, once when new and once when trying to determine why I wasn't getting full travel on big hits. The seals leaked once but was replaced with Enduro seals. After watching the Spec videos on their website, I did readjust the rebound rate and it only made the fork that much better.

    The Triad, on the other hand, is a joke compared to everything else on the bike. Out of every single component, yes even the gawd awful pedals that come on the bike, the Triad is the worst. There is just no way to tune it to get effective bob/squat control out of it.

    BTW, the Triad propedal = RP23 open mode. Figure that one out.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    I have been impressed with the Float RL on my Stumpy. I have had to adjust the air pressure only twice, once when new and once when trying to determine why I wasn't getting full travel on big hits. The seals leaked once but was replaced with Enduro seals. After watching the Spec videos on their website, I did readjust the rebound rate and it only made the fork that much better.

    The Triad, on the other hand, is a joke compared to everything else on the bike. Out of every single component, yes even the gawd awful pedals that come on the bike, the Triad is the worst. There is just no way to tune it to get effective bob/squat control out of it.

    BTW, the Triad propedal = RP23 open mode. Figure that one out.
    Let's take a technical, rocky, "all mountain" trail.
    Which mode of the RP23 would you use to climb those rocky stairs?
    And same question for going down?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Let's take a technical, rocky, "all mountain" trail.
    Which mode of the RP23 would you use to climb those rocky stairs?
    And same question for going down?
    Propedal up, propedal down (low to med. tech) or full open if really technical,,,,maybe.
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  65. #65
    arc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1

    BTW, the Triad propedal = RP23 open mode. Figure that one out.
    That's easy. Its because the RP23 has functional and effective compression damping. Never tried the pedals, but I can imagine what would have happened if Specialized would have used RLC forks and regular Float shocks. I'm thinking the pedals weren't their only bad choice.

    I wish my bike would of come with a float instead of the talas. I loved my old 100mm Float RLC and could never get the talas rl to work anywhere near as well. This year's float is a lot better than my old float. High speed damping is much improved and it seems to steer more accurately. The rebound and low speed compression adjusters have more control. And it matches the RP23 perfectly.

    It's surprising you didn't notice much change descending after switching out the Triad, its what I noticed most. My rear tire stays glued to the trail now, even after I upped the tire pressure.

  66. #66
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    RP23 SJ FSR factory settings

    Lumbee1,

    I am interested in upgrading my 2006 Stumpjumper with an ex Rush RP23 from your experiences.

    Some questions though.

    I understand that RP23 shocks are factory set for some sort of platform. They can be factory set in 3 different settings and this is indicated by a picture of a small set of bars some where on the side of the shock. The bars increase in size and one of the bars will be shaded a different colour depending on the factory set platform (regardless of the RP23 having other user settings).

    Do you know what factory platform setting your RP23 is?
    Do you know if Rush RP23's can come in different factory settings (I assume note)?
    Are you still impressed with the RP23? I am weighing up getting a new bike, but a new shock may hold this off for a little while and be a cheaper option.

    Hope the above is clear, thanks for useful feedback and previous posts.

    Cheers

  67. #67
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    kiwibert

    I too have a c'dale RP23 and it has the medium platform. It does great to be honest with you.
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  68. #68
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    Would this C'dale RP23 upgrade work with a 2005 Stumpjumper with 100mm/4" travel too?

    Also is this math correct?

    The current shock with a 1.5" stroke and 4" travel means that the leverage is 1:2.7. This means the extra 0.25" stroke would give me another 2/3" travel. A 2" stroke shock would be another 1.3" travel, right?

    And a current 6.5" e2e to 7.5" e2e would mean the rear rides more than 2 inches higher. That sound like a lot even if I get a longer fork.

    Any other options? A BETD link and a 6.5 x 1.5 RP23 is a somewhat expensive upgrade, if I want a fork upgrade too.

  69. #69
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    6.5e2e x 1.5 is available

    why would you need the betd link too? unless you wanted to increase travel. Quality of the travel, is as important or more so that the quantity of travel.

    You might be happy with an RP3 or 23 with 4" travel and need nothing more. I thought 6.5x1.5 was a standerd size for Fow, or not? I know they are out there...

  70. #70
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    yes, want more travel and possibly a 100-130mm adjustable fork like the Fox TALAS. The front gets too light if I climb steep hills. And sitting on the tip of the saddle is only "fun" for a while ;-)

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto'n'PushBiker
    yes, want more travel and possibly a 100-130mm adjustable fork like the Fox TALAS. The front gets too light if I climb steep hills. And sitting on the tip of the saddle is only "fun" for a while ;-)
    A longer stem (10 to 20mm) and moving the seat forward (10 to 20mm) would fix the front wheel lift. I am too lazy to do the math, but the 7.5 x 2.0 will work but might throw off the whole geometry of the bike even with a 130mm Talas up front.

  72. #72
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    Well, looks like i'm now in the market for a new shock.

    I went a little bigger over some waterbars this arvo - and that's by no means outrageous -and was greeted by a gush of fluid from around the TRIAD's rebound knob - bugger.
    There's no way i'm throwing good money after bad repairing it.
    It's less than a month outside warranty.

    Luckily the wife was riding with me, and has given the go-ahead to replace the piece of crap.

    Now I've just got to source the replacement.
    Without shopping around, the Push option seems as cheap as getting a new shock locally here in Aus. (love the exchange rate) Hopefully they will dispatch overseas.

    I still find it hard to believe Specialized didn't recall the dodgy things in the first place - the whole fiasco must have done their brand name untold damage - unfortunately with the ones who put their hard earned cash up to buy their product in the first place. I'm starting to wish I'd spent the extra cash on the Yeti...

    Cheers and good luck.
    Mark
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack
    Without shopping around, the Push option seems as cheap as getting a new shock locally here in Aus. (love the exchange rate) Hopefully they will dispatch overseas.
    They wouldn't ship to me in Canada, apparently Fox requires them to respect its exclusive distributorship agreements. The only possibility they suggested was to buy an RP23 and ship it to them for servicing.

  74. #74
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    Correct.
    Push got back to me and won't ship outside the US.
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  75. #75
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    This may be a stupid question!!

    Sorry to bring this up so late in the post, but what effect would running the standard Fox 7.5" x 2.00" shock have on the FSR 120?

    Would it run to much sag, making it handle poorly, or would travelling beyond it's intended travel damage the frame?

    Just curious before I order.

    Thanks.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack
    Sorry to bring this up so late in the post, but what effect would running the standard Fox 7.5" x 2.00" shock have on the FSR 120?

    Would it run to much sag, making it handle poorly, or would travelling beyond it's intended travel damage the frame?

    Just curious before I order.

    Thanks.
    On a big hit, the shock link would smack the frame. If you remove all the air from the Triad, you will see that you don't have a lot of space between the shock link and frame. With a 2.0 shock, the shock link would travel 1/4" past the lowest Triad setting into the frame. On bottoming out, instead of a thump, you would get a clang followed by a crack.

  77. #77
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    Followup: I finally found a small mound (18") that I could hit with speed and get some air to test the RP23 on jumps. After several jumps, I thought that the shape of the mound was affecting the ability to get air. It turns out, I was getting air each time but the landing was so smooth it was difficult to tell how high or far I was going. The could hear the shock compress more than feel it. I asked mopartodd before I got the RP23 if the shock was more like the Triad or Manitou Swinger on big jumps (Triad pancakes, Swinger is plush) and Todd said it was more like the Swinger. I actually have to disagree with this. The Swinger was springy (I could never slow the rebound enough) while the RP23 is smooth. The Triad doesn't compare to either one because it blows through the travel and only the last few fractions of an inch absorb the landing.

    Another update: The RP23 floats over downhill obstacles. I was happy with the Triad but after riding on the RP23, I couldn't imagine going back (Triad for sale?). The most impressive quality of the Triad was it's ability to descend. It stuttered over choppy rooty terrain but it wasn't bad... until I rode the RP23. The RP23 makes the bike feel light and instead off stuttering it floats over everything. Maybe I had the Triad rebound set too slow and it was packing up? Maybe it just couldn't cope with stutter bumps? Either way, the RP23 allows me to carry much more speed downhill with better control.

    This was timed before I had the RP23 installed. I will try to ride this loop again and report my time.
    Outer counter-clockwise loop at Crabtree
    no stops
    Time - 31.03 minutes
    Distance - 4.86 miles
    Avg Speed - 9.4 mph
    Temp - 75 degrees
    My legs were cold for the first 2 to 2.5 miles.

  78. #78
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    I only said that because it was nothing like the Triad. I have no experience with the Swinger.

    Too, what's "your" outer loop?
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    the landing was so smooth it was difficult to tell how high or far I was going. The could hear the shock compress more than feel it.
    I agree with this assessment - I've found that landings with the RP23 are smooooth compared to the triad. I'm assuming it has to do with stronger compression damping across the range of travel, leading the suspension to compress more gradually? I've also noticed that my landings use about 85% of the available travel, but the rp23 never seems to want to bottom (yet at least - maybe I need to try some bigger drops lol).

  80. #80
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    07 FSR Triad Fitting

    Having measured the length of shock required to contact the rear linkage at full extension,
    I reckon a 200mm RP23, w 50mm stroke would be fine for a 07 Stumpy. Run a tad more sag to get the geometry back to normal.

    The other option is a Fox Brain fitted by your local Spesh dealer.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd
    I only said that because it was nothing like the Triad. I have no experience with the Swinger.

    Too, what's "your" outer loop?
    Coming from Old Reedy Creek side, I started the computer right at tree cover past the singletrack by the lake. Make rights all the way around, except for where the main entrance trailhead is. Beating my previous time is not a problem, it's by how much that I would like to know .

  82. #82
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Some problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Yeap

    BTW, riding on the RP23 gets better and better. Descending matches the Triad. I still haven't hit any large jumps or drops. Climbing is better than I originally thought. And energy savings from propedal? let's just say I rode 12 miles the other day at a fairly fast pace and was up for more. I wanted to spend time with my daughter and called it quits for the day. The more I ride, the more I think this upgrade is a necessity for the 05 and 06 Stumpjumpers.
    Got my RP23 from PUSH today.
    The bottom eye diameter is less than the diameter of the orinigal Triad
    So currently I cannot install the new shock.

    Did you have this problem also?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Got my RP23 from PUSH today.
    The bottom eye diameter is less than the diameter of the orinigal Triad
    So currently I cannot install the new shock.

    Did you have this problem also?

    Can you tell the RP23 upper and lower eyelet diameter (Without reductors)???

  84. #84
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    laeddis,

    Is that a '07 Stumpy FSR you're fitting it to?

    I haven't quite got the wonga to get a RP23 just yet, but my crude measurements on my FSR Elite lead me to think it'll take a 200mm RP23.

    However I can get a Brain retro-fitted for similar money (have to hand back Triad tho') whick WILL definately fit with no issues.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    Got my RP23 from PUSH today.
    The bottom eye diameter is less than the diameter of the orinigal Triad
    So currently I cannot install the new shock.

    Did you have this problem also?
    Are you sure the rear bushing from the Triad is too large to go into the RP23? They are a bear to get out of the Triad and into the RP23 but it should fit. Do you see an obvious size difference or does it "feel" like it wouldn't fit?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Are you sure the rear bushing from the Triad is too large to go into the RP23? They are a bear to get out of the Triad and into the RP23 but it should fit. Do you see an obvious size difference or does it "feel" like it wouldn't fit?
    I understand now that PUSH installed reducer in the rear bushing...

    Any idea how to remove it?

    10x!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis
    I understand now that PUSH installed reducer in the rear bushing...

    Any idea how to remove it?

    10x!
    Can you post a pic to help us out? The reducers are raw aluminum and go in the top of the shock (by the lever) while the rear is a dark gray bushing. The reducers are easy to remove with the right tools, while the bushing was a pain-in-the-butt. My bushing required several tools to remove it including a highlighter, eye bolt, nuts, bolts, washers, hammers, wrenches, etc...

  88. #88
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    ... and if we just ... Thanks for your help

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Can you post a pic to help us out? The reducers are raw aluminum and go in the top of the shock (by the lever) while the rear is a dark gray bushing. The reducers are easy to remove with the right tools, while the bushing was a pain-in-the-butt. My bushing required several tools to remove it including a highlighter, eye bolt, nuts, bolts, washers, hammers, wrenches, etc...

    Finally I got rid of those reducers and installed the RP23 on my Stumpy

    Can't wait to ride it this coming weekend

    By the way, PUSH set the air pressure to 190 PSI and the sag was only 5mm...

    I wonder why since they had my weight...

    Anyway I took some air out and it is now ~11mm.

  89. #89
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    07 with RP23?

    Ladies/Gents,

    Has anyone tried to put the 200mm/50mm RP23 on a 07 Stumpy?

    Or do you know someone who has?

    I think it'll work, having measured how much more room there is beyond my 196mm Triad, but want to make sure.

    I do have an option of the Brain upgrade for similar money, but it'd be nice to know I don't have to rely on proprietary shocks for the rest of the bike's life cycle.

    Cheers

    Mike

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by laeddis

    Finally I got rid of those reducers and installed the RP23 on my Stumpy

    Can't wait to ride it this coming weekend

    By the way, PUSH set the air pressure to 190 PSI and the sag was only 5mm...

    I wonder why since they had my weight...

    Anyway I took some air out and it is now ~11mm.
    Don't follow the manual. I started out at 150psi for 11mm sag. After just a few rides I realized this was way too low. The shock will take some time to break in, 30 miles for me, and you will probably settle on a higher air pressure. I weigh 195 and my RP23 is 180psi.

  91. #91
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well ProPedal 1 or 2

    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab
    For climbing I throw the rp23 into propedal 2 right now. Honestly there is no bob. In fact it's a little harsh on rocky technical climbs. I set to open for downhill segments and am pretty pleased. However, in the 2nd half of my ride the shock started chirping. It would be fine with a single big hit, but a series of them caused the shock to make a hi pitched wooshing sound. It seems to only occur in the latter half of the stroke (most extreme compression). This is occurring in full open.

    Going off of small jumps is pure joy now. The shock has turned my bike into a gazel. Slight preload before, and I just fly off of ramped rocks. The shock also helps with my pseudo gimpy bunny hops.

    I'm going to lube the shock body to see if that will make the chirping go away. Also I am going to try some rides in propedal 1 to see if it works better than 2 for technical climbs. If I decide I don't like it, I will take out another 5psi and try it in 2 again. I don't really see any point in trying 3, as I just don't think I'd be able to get it to compress.
    Hi half_man_half_scab,

    Got my RP23 from Push and not sure which is better, i.e. ProPedal 1 or 2, for technical climbing. Can you share your experience?

    Also, it seems the sag is more than 11.1mm, based on your weight and air pressure settings. What is the sag you measured?

    Thanks!
    Laeddis

  92. #92
    Mud Boy
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    I haven't settled on 1 or 2

    I am still fiddling with my rear tire pressure actually. I find that a 2 psi reduction in the rear tire makes me like pp2 more than 1. I do appreciate a firm platform, and immediate forward motion while climbing technical singletrack.

    I find that the difference between pp1 and 2, can be terrain specific. Each place we ride has a different characteristic. I have ridden multiple laps on the same course, tried pp1 and 2, and felt the pro's and con's for each.

    Really though, the performance improvement is just so damn significant over the P,O,S. stock Triad, that how much fine tuning is really necesary.

    Just when I find the holy grail of shock psi, pp setting, and rear tire psi, the trail conditions change, or the location does.

    I'm starting to think my research is over, weight with gear 190lbs, 165psi in shock, pp2, and 34psi in the rear tire(thanks Stan). The bike is just sooo damn sweet now

  93. #93
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    I ride PP3, 2, and 1. I rode a fairly tough trail the other day in PP2 and really should have dropped into 1. I also hit a small jump and was surprised at how much travel I didn't use.

    I am 195lbs, run 180psi in the shock, and 32psi in the rear tire.

  94. #94
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    Got my RP23 yesterday and have it fitted professionally.

    The bike mechanic did not remove the original bushing from the RP23. He just took out the Rush reducer and replaced it with the one from the Triad.

    I was told that suspension design usually revolve around the shock that is to be used and it may be a bad idea to change the stock shock, more so if the shock came from a Cannondale.

    Was also told that the extra 1/4" shock sleeze is not a problem, Cannondale may have kept it that way for a more linear feel - larger air volume.

    I can say the RP23 is the best upgrade I did for my bike. Previously, with the Triad, I have to pump more air than needed to elimate bob and to prevent excessively bottoming out.

    I have more confident on the RP23, no more "shaky" cornering and I improved 9minutes off a 35km run.

    The RP23 feel firm when pushed and plush during drop.

    Now with the RP23...I think there something wrong with my bike...the Float 120 don't seem to match the rear shock if I set it to the recommended sag..it seem to "move more" and "drop" more than the rear...the bike seem unbalanced..

    So, big question now..what is the right way to set up the front and back??

    Should I set to recommended sag or balance out the shock by putting more air in front?

    I'm 130lb, rp23 at 120psi (10mm sag) and float 120 (20mm sag) at 60psi.

  95. #95
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    Rottweiler,

    What year is your Stumpy?

    Cheers

  96. #96
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    Its a 06

    Quote Originally Posted by mikertroid
    Rottweiler,

    What year is your Stumpy?

    Cheers

  97. #97
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    Triad

    The Triad gets a lot of flack, and I can understand why. Set at recommended settings, the amount of sag is unholy, and it really takes away from the bike's handling, climbing and acceleration. I don't have the money to go with the 23, however, so what I did is simply go 10 pounds higher than what Fox recommends for the Triad (I made sure to measure myself with all gear and hydration). I also went 5 pounds higher in the Float 120 fork to offset any imbalance this could cause. I set the rebound to quite slow, so that the bike wouldn't feel too stiff and harsh.

    I must say that going slightly higher in pressure than what Fox recommends on the Triad worked wonders for me. The bike climbs and pedals much better, but still responds to the trail. In short, at no cost, the bike now handles much better than it originally did. I'd experiment with how much you increase pressure, etc. But this might work for some. I weight 180 with all gear, btw. And this is working for me.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by madgeronimo
    The Triad gets a lot of flack, and I can understand why. Set at recommended settings, the amount of sag is unholy, and it really takes away from the bike's handling, climbing and acceleration. I don't have the money to go with the 23, however, so what I did is simply go 10 pounds higher than what Fox recommends for the Triad (I made sure to measure myself with all gear and hydration). I also went 5 pounds higher in the Float 120 fork to offset any imbalance this could cause. I set the rebound to quite slow, so that the bike wouldn't feel too stiff and harsh.

    I must say that going slightly higher in pressure than what Fox recommends on the Triad worked wonders for me. The bike climbs and pedals much better, but still responds to the trail. In short, at no cost, the bike now handles much better than it originally did. I'd experiment with how much you increase pressure, etc. But this might work for some. I weight 180 with all gear, btw. And this is working for me.
    Most of us RP23 converts did everything possible to make the Triad better but no amount of tweaking comes close to the Propedal performance of the RP23. I am 195lbs and had to run my Triad at 230psi to get somewhat descent performance out of it.

  99. #99
    Mud Boy
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    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Most of us RP23 converts did everything possible to make the Triad better but no amount of tweaking comes close to the Propedal performance of the RP23. I am 195lbs and had to run my Triad at 230psi to get somewhat descent performance out of it.

    I'm 190 w/gear, and I was running 235psi in my Triad. I still blew thru the travel during low speed technical sections.

    I'm part way thru my first full season with me RP23. I must admit, I am still tinkering with the pro pedal setting a bit.

    If the additional psi firmed your Triad up, consider yourself one of the lucky ones. I have ridden with other 06 Stumpy FSR owners, that were more than happy with the performance of their Triad. I also watched their chassis bob constantly thru terrain when riding behind them.

    The 23 is definately a huge improvement for the chassis.

  100. #100
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    Did they improve upon the '07 Stumpy/Triad shock characteristics?

    Test driving on steep roads in Boulder, CO, I didn't notice excessive bob, and it felt pretty quick climbing. Did they change compression damping for '07? Is this problem highlighted by technical climbing? Should I run away?

    Thanks...

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