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  1. #1
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    Spec's Roval and 2Bliss set up: Infuriating procedure/failing

    Given how people rave about tubeless, I thought I would give tubeless a go. My 2014 World Cup Epic already came equipped with 2bliss ready Roval carbon wheels and S-Works Fast Trak tyres.

    Despite following the recommended procedure of:


    • Install Spec tubeless valve and tighten lock nut (rubber sits square in the rim gutter)
    • Soap & water the rims
    • Soap & water tyre beads
    • Put tyre on
    • Put bead on evenly until valve point
    • Pour in Stans sealant (1.5 swoops)
    • Rotate wheel
    • Clip on last bead
    • Ensure both beads are in the rim gutter
    • Using a compressor, pump up tyre


    For some unfathomable reason, the tyre will NOT inflate. I tried the Schwalbe's Racing Ralphs and worked well, though they were harder to get on the rim and required levers but sealed fine.

    What am I doing wrong? I always like to do things myself and reluctant to go to a shop.

  2. #2
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    You don't state what is going wrong with the 2Bliss? Is it not sealing, or will it not rise onto the rim? If it is not sealing, how long does it take to lose air? if a while where is the air escaping from (i.e. sealing strip issue or valve or rim)?

  3. #3
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    Never had a hard time with a 2bliss tire, but sometimes I have to pull both tire beads up on the ledge of the rim to help it seal enough to get the beads to snap in place.

    Go all the way around, try it again. If the tire is wet with sealant, I sk the soap and water...
    Todd

  4. #4
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    Thanks for your replies.

    Skiwi - it will not not rise onto the rim. There is a fair amount of air escaping. It seems the Stans's tubeless instructions is not working for Spec's 2Bliss tyres. I can only assume there must be a different method of getting this to work.

    Todd - how did you manage to pull both beads up on the ledge of the rim?

  5. #5
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    I have never used soap and water, sometimes it takes five minutes and no mess, other times I get stans all over everything.
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  6. #6
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    I put the tire/wheel assy in between my legs and inch by inch, I grab the tire where the tread meets the sidewall and pull it out tow rads the edge. What you want is to create the start of the seal, so the compressor or pump will seal it up easier...
    Todd

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post
    Thanks for your replies.

    Skiwi - it will not not rise onto the rim. There is a fair amount of air escaping. It seems the Stans's tubeless instructions is not working for Spec's 2Bliss tyres. I can only assume there must be a different method of getting this to
    I don't use a compressor, but a CO2 canister. Also I don't use any sealant until the tyre has seated on the rims. Also take the valve core out so that more air can get into the tyre when you are inflating it for the first time.

    So, no Stan's, remove valve core, use CO2 canister to inflate the tyre onto the rim. Inject Stan's in through the valve core, screw valve core back in and re inflate.

  8. #8
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    Todd - Thanks

    Skiwi - Thanks. Using your method, where did you put the tyre bead, on the ledge like Todd's way or in the middle of the rim? Secondly what type of C02 canister do you use?

  9. #9
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    Got to agree. Since specialized removed the bead hook from their rims setting up their tires has become a nightmare. Used to be a 5 minutes deal with my floor pump but now I have to visit my local tires shop everytime. It sucks..
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post
    Skiwi - Thanks. Using your method, where did you put the tyre bead, on the ledge like Todd's way or in the middle of the rim? Secondly what type of C02 canister do you use?
    I put the beads in the middle of the rim. The key point is ensuring that the valve is correctly positioned inside the tyre. Wrt inflation, once you have removed the valve core, a small (16oz) CO2 canister should be enough to seat the tyre. Alternatively use a Schraeder to Presta converter and rock up to the local gas station and use their compressor pump...

  11. #11
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    I've never had a single issues with Specialized tires setting up tubeless. They have always been one of the easiest to get to seat... always a floor pump proposition when plenty of other tires need me to bust out the compressor.

    You can try installing the tube again. Then, only unseating 1 of the beads to remove the tube. That sometimes really helps with stubborn tires.

    You do have the brown rims trips installed, correct?

  12. #12
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    I will also add that the new straight sidewall rims are more trouble than the old design. I think they got tired of paying Stan's licensing fees on the bead hook design (that they originally stole... then got sued for). But, I've always gotten them up and running.

  13. #13
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    air it up with the valve core removed, you get more air into the tire that will help to inflate it. then remove compressor and place finger over stem and reinsert core. ive had good luck doing it that way.
    Last edited by millerasm; 02-02-2014 at 08:34 PM. Reason: spelling

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiwi View Post
    I put the beads in the middle of the rim. The key point is ensuring that the valve is correctly positioned inside the tyre.
    This...

  15. #15
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    In the begining, I had some problems inflating too. On closer examination I saw that the tire bead was on top of the valve thus creating a gaping hole between the rim and the tire around the valve. I have control carbon 29 rims and ground controls.

  16. #16
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    I had a similar problem with a Schwalbe tire. I just put a tube into the tire overnight (not on the rim) to have the tire take shape. having the tire somewhere warm helps too.

  17. #17
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    Lots of good advice here to try. It's a pretty clear consensus tubeless aren't exactly straightforward to fit.

    I'm going to try the following:

    Use a 16g cannister to inflate a 'dry' tyre with no sealant, bead in the centre gutter of the rim. Value core removed.
    Will double check valve positioning and extra tighten with lock nut
    Will also try manually fit beads on the ledge of the rims

    Potentially a few expletives in between. Will report back

  18. #18
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    if it won't air up with valve core removed, soapy water and a floor pump, then simply add another layer of rim tape until it inflates this way....not sure why this is so hard to
    understand. i have control sl's with sworks renegades and 2 layers of gorilla tape, airs
    up basically as soon as i start pumping.

  19. #19
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    I get even the least tubeless ready tires to air up on my Arch EX's, with much fuss. A lot of it is the wheel you're working with.

    We did a set of Surly Bud and Lou's on a clownshoe wheel, and it took us hours. Had to use a strap in the middle and the compressor cycled 3 times before it took...

    Keep at it, good luck!
    Todd

  20. #20
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    Many times this has to do with needing a compressor with constant high pressure to blow while you mess with the tire to get it to set. Often I have had issues when the rims are more narrow and having to spread the tire apart at the valve stem before it will finally take.

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  21. #21
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    Well, I never had issues with tubeless. The trick I found is once the sealant is added. Grab the wheel and roll it on the ground while applying pressure to the wheel. Once that done air up the tire. Works every time for me. I never had to use a compressor for specialized tires to seat bead.

  22. #22
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    Spec's Roval and 2Bliss set up: Infuriating procedure/failing

    I have done various tubeless set ups on various rims, including a newer set of Roval Control Trail 29. The biggest PITA was some Giant P-XC2 wheels, but the Rovals went right up for me using Stan's valves. One of my Rovals had the tubeless rimstrip doubled over and creased so I had to scrap it, replacing with 1 layer of Gorilla tape with about a 3" overlap at the valve hole. Anyway, when I get a set that is a big hassle, I do the following:

    - Air up the wheel with a tube installed to 35-40 psi with a dry bead on one side at least. Let it sit for 5 min or so.

    - Then air down the tire pushing on only ONE side of the tire beads, leaving the bead on the other side untouched. Do whatever you can to not disturb the bead on the other side.

    - CAREFULLY remove the tube through the broken-bead side.

    - Pour in the sealant and wet the open-side bead with soapy water.

    - Re-seat the open-side bead and inflate with a compressor blast, preferably with the valve core out.

    I know this sounds like a hassle, but eliminating as much air escape as possible is the key here. Btw, the Gorilla taped wheel when up a tad easier and holds air better than the 2Bliss rimstrip.
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  23. #23
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    Never had any issues with setting up a 2bliss tire.

    What made it easier for me was to hang the rim. I would have the valve at the 12 0'clock position. Make sure the bead is set properly around the valve. Then I would empty a CO2 into the tire. The CO2 is enough to shape up the tire, then I would use a pump to seat the bead.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBeing View Post
    I know this sounds like a hassle, but eliminating as much air escape as possible is the key here. Btw, the Gorilla taped wheel when up a tad easier and holds air better than the 2Bliss rimstrip.
    Thanks MTBeing.

    Are you saying it is worth ditching the 2Bliss rim tape in favour of Gorilla tape? I kind of agree the rim tape supplied with Roval wheels don't look particularly reassuring....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post
    Thanks MTBeing.

    Are you saying it is worth ditching the 2Bliss rim tape in favour of Gorilla tape? I kind of agree the rim tape supplied with Roval wheels don't look particularly reassuring....
    If there are any creases in the Roval rim tape, it pays to replace as IME, this can often lead to air pushing through the tape, into the rim and then slow leaks around the valve seat. I now use Stans tape.

  26. #26
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    Well... I attempted the front wheel after work and I'm pleased to say, with all the extremely good advice on here, I managed to inflate the tyre with the help of a 16g C02 canister (inflated to 30 psi). With the valve core removed made a huge difference.

    Clearly my home air compressor wasn't powerful enough, which explains why the tyre wouldn't lift off the rim. I used Spec's 2Bliss rim tape which had no creased marks (not as far as I can tell) and seems to be holding ok. Only lost 1 psi overnight...?

    Just the back wheel to go...

  27. #27
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    I have found the Specialized 2Bliss rim tape to be absolutely rubbish. It is never put on straight on OEM wheels & it is a very loose fit on the rim.
    I always change it to their blue stan's like tape.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post

    Just the back wheel to go...
    Place the wheel on the ground with the valve at 12 oclock. Make sure the tire is completely covering the valve. Before you start inflating press the tire down flat over the valve with the palm of your hand. This directs the air around the tire instead of it all coming out right next to the valve. Works every time for me with a floor pump.

  29. #29
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    Does anyone know if the 36 mm American Classic tubeless valves are longer enough for the Roval Control wheels?

  30. #30
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    They got rid of the crappy blue tape which I agree was terrible. My 2013s have a brown rim strip that seems to work well enough. Gorilla tape works awesome and lasts forever.

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  31. #31
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    The first thing that u have to do is remove that original 2bliss brown tape is crap u have to install the stans no tubes 25mm rim tubeless tape!! it really works!! also that roval valves don't seal nothing!!! u will need stans valves too that is the unique way to get tubless perfect in those rims!!!

  32. #32
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    As a bike mechanic, I've had no problem with Specialized's OEM tubeless setup. Using brown 2Bliss "tape" and valve. Installed S-Works Fast Tracks in a few seconds for both wheels. Mounted right up.

    If you're having trouble, coat the beads with some Stans sealant and pop 'em on with air compressor. I like to put the valve at the 9 o'clock position makes it easier.

    If you're having to do crazy things and perform voodoo, you're doing it wrong. Don't waste your time and support you local shop.

  33. #33
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    Thanks Dypeterc

    I'm still having trouble getting the back tyre to hold air. 24 hours later the right sidewall is constantly leaking air and seeping sealant - see pic below.

    I've tried shaking from side to side but still won't seal. Any ideas? I'm very close to throwing in the towel.


  34. #34
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    That doesn't look like much of of a leak..should seal overnight.

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  35. #35
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    Make sure you're laying your tire on the side overnight to let it pool and seal.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post
    Thanks Dypeterc

    I'm still having trouble getting the back tyre to hold air. 24 hours later the right sidewall is constantly leaking air and seeping sealant - see pic below.

    I've tried shaking from side to side but still won't seal. Any ideas? I'm very close to throwing in the towel.

    That's not a consequence of the bead seating up. A hole that small should remedy itself pretty quickly with Stans. Are you shaking the bottle just prior to use?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post
    Thanks Dypeterc

    I'm still having trouble getting the back tyre to hold air. 24 hours later the right sidewall is constantly leaking air and seeping sealant - see pic below.

    I've tried shaking from side to side but still won't seal. Any ideas? I'm very close to throwing in the towel.
    U have to shake the stans bottle! and ride the bike with little high pressure!! u have to roll and roll the tires they have to seal with stans!
    If this do not work put very little drop of super glue on the holes it seals forever!!!

  38. #38
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    Yes 100% certain I shook the Stans bottle. The photo was after I had been for a quick 20 min test ride on the bike

    I've left the wheel on its side overnight at 40psi.

    If overnight the sealant still bubbles as per photo I'll use superglue (shouldn't have to really).

  39. #39
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    Seem very odd that air would be escaping from the rim. A couple of possible explanations come to mind:

    1) There is some debris caught up in the rim that is preventing the tyre sealing
    2) The tyre rim interface is damaged
    3) The air leak is from the valve, not the rim (leak via the rim tape)

    The easy way to check is to fill the bath or a basin with water and put the tyre in (or as much of the tyre as you can) and work it around in the water to where you see the leak.

  40. #40
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    yess I had the same problem with some rovals before! the 2bliss brown tape do not seal nothing!!! and the roval valve have a bad design in that rubber base, don't seal the valve hole!! that's why I installed stans tape and stans valves!! and it holds air really great no have to re-inflate tires in a month! but u have to roll the bike that way to seal the micro holes in the rubber!!

  41. #41
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    This is getting ridiculous now. Never had so much grief with tubeless.

    The air is escaping from the tyre's sidewall as per the picture above, even after 2 days on its side. There is no air escaping from the valve or rim as far as I can tell.

    I think it's clearly a faulty tyre. Tried the superglue method but doesn't seem to be working.

    The front tyre went straight up fine and has held air since. But the rear one, won't have it.

  42. #42
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    When I shook the stans liquid and poured, I saw a lot of bubbles in the liquid with some bits left behind. I'm wondering if that could have an effect the sealant not working? Can't see this for one minute (1 1/2 swoops).

  43. #43
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    I believe that the particles are for sealing the larger punctures. When you buy the 2oz bottles...its just straight liquid...no chunks. Thats what I use on my tubular road tires.

  44. #44
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    Something is v. wrong here. The Roval rims and Specy 2bliss tires set up v. easily with Stan's or whatever sealant (I use homemade) often with a floor pump. I have had issues and it was either related to the valve stem not sealing properly or the rim tape not covering the spoke holes well enough. A small hole in the tire will easily seal as this is the whole point of tubeless. There is definately some technique involved here as well. A larger hole may need a small piece of duct tape on the inside. I would retape the rim and ensure the valve stem is seated tightly. On problematic valve stems I have used silicone PVC sealant around the rubber portion to get it to seal.

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    When you shake the fluid you should then pour the liquid vertically downwards into the tyre. That way you get the "sediment" into the tyre.

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    Replace the tyre it's sounds defective. Having said that, the Stan's should be sealing it. See my other response for how to pour the Stan's into the tyre.

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    I trust in super glue for that little holes if u can't seal it from outside do it from inside the tire!! I had the same problem in my fast traks the stans didn't sealed it so i put some glue over the little holes! I will never had this problem again also I use super glue for nail punctures with tube patches

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatone View Post
    Well... I attempted the front wheel after work and I'm pleased to say, with all the extremely good advice on here, I managed to inflate the tyre with the help of a 16g C02 canister (inflated to 30 psi). With the valve core removed made a huge difference.

    Clearly my home air compressor wasn't powerful enough, which explains why the tyre wouldn't lift off the rim. I used Spec's 2Bliss rim tape which had no creased marks (not as far as I can tell) and seems to be holding ok. Only lost 1 psi overnight...?

    Just the back wheel to go...
    Hi Hatone, how is your tubeless tires holding up?

    I have the same problem with my Control Carbon 29er and S-Works Fast Trak. Read every tip here and followed, even put a tube in, but could never get the tire to inflate with my floor pump (Topeak Joe Blow Sport).

    Last resort was the CO2 canister and it filled right up! Only did later did I realise Stans do not recommend CO2 with their sealant with possibility of crystalizing. So I let out the air slowly, opened enough beads to check the sealant was still liquid and managed to pump it up with the Joe Blow.

  49. #49
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    CO2 and sealant do not mix. It'll cause the latex to solidify d/t the rapid temp change. If your compressor won't get it w/ the core removed then there's a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by protyne View Post
    Hi Hatone, how is your tubeless tires holding up?

    I have the same problem with my Control Carbon 29er and S-Works Fast Trak. Read every tip here and followed, even put a tube in, but could never get the tire to inflate with my floor pump (Topeak Joe Blow Sport).

    Last resort was the CO2 canister and it filled right up! Only did later did I realise Stans do not recommend CO2 with their sealant with possibility of crystalizing. So I let out the air slowly, opened enough beads to check the sealant was still liquid and managed to pump it up with the Joe Blow.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by protyne View Post
    Hi Hatone, how is your tubeless tires holding up?

    I have the same problem with my Control Carbon 29er and S-Works Fast Trak. Read every tip here and followed, even put a tube in, but could never get the tire to inflate with my floor pump (Topeak Joe Blow Sport).

    Last resort was the CO2 canister and it filled right up! Only did later did I realise Stans do not recommend CO2 with their sealant with possibility of crystalizing. So I let out the air slowly, opened enough beads to check the sealant was still liquid and managed to pump it up with the Joe Blow.
    That Joe Blow just isn't going to have the volume to seat hard-to-seat tubeless tires....I had one and it never worked. I have used CO2 plenty of times to seat tubeless tires with no issues...I think this concern is a bit overblown (pardon the pun!). Sometimes at the end of the day you just need a compressor.
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  51. #51
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    hmmm, I use a Joe Blow II to seat beads on Ground Controls, Captains and an Ardent 2.45 TLR. The Ardent sidewalls seeped more than the others but just turned wheel horizontal so the fluid would sit on the seeping side and waited till it stopped seeping. I did replace tape with Stans, the brown tape let air leak out of the spoke holes.

    By the way, I didn't notice seeping until I sprayed soapy water on the sidewalls. I do use soapy water every time to see there's any leaks around spoke holes, sidewalls and valves.

    I used to take my wheels to the LBS when I had trouble the first few times. Then I just watched what they were doing. I was thinking of buying a compressor but, don't seem to need it anymore.

  52. #52
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    I wasn't saying that the Joe Blow wouldn't do it, just that its not a high-vol pump and may not be enough for tough-to-seat tires where you need a lot of pressure/volume. Sometimes the tire just isn't tight enough on the rim and you need a strong burst of air to get them to seat.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I wasn't saying that the Joe Blow wouldn't do it, just that its not a high-vol pump and may not be enough for tough-to-seat tires where you need a lot of pressure/volume. Sometimes the tire just isn't tight enough on the rim and you need a strong burst of air to get them to seat.
    Okay, gotcha!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I wasn't saying that the Joe Blow wouldn't do it, just that its not a high-vol pump and may not be enough for tough-to-seat tires where you need a lot of pressure/volume. Sometimes the tire just isn't tight enough on the rim and you need a strong burst of air to get them to seat.
    This is what I found with a Racing Ralph. I have an air compressor and no matter what...I could not get the sidewalls on the RaRa to inflate. Even with continuous air pressure. After a couple hours...I gave up. I went back to my Ground Control and the tire set up on the first shot.

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    Thanks for the advice guys. I just did my rear wheels and this time with just the Joe Blow with valve core in. Double rim tape (tire was able to rotate with single layer only), rolling tire on ground with sealant and a little more soapy water all seem to help on a first time inflate with floor pump.

    Think it's indeed not tight enough.

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