Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28

    New question here. Specialized Phenom pro carbon saddle broke yesterday. 30min into its 1st ride

    I just finished building a new fullsuspension, and 30min into the first ride the Rt rail broke. Right at the back of the clamp (EC90.) This was on some XC switch back stuff behind my friends house (west oahu.) We're talking very light ridge riding, for the new bikes initial shake down test.

    Anyone have any similar problems with these saddles, did I get a dudd?
    I would like to stay with this saddle but will go back to my ti rails if needed, Ive never had a saddle break, in 10yrs of racing and 22yrs of riding.

    I mostly ride what I would call XC and some All Mountain.

    I weigh about 173-180 depending on the day.

    The bike is 130mm front and back suspenision.

    So far I took it to the local shop by my house and they're going to contact specialized, and get back to me in 2-3 days. I dont see there being a problem with warranty, the saddle is spotless with zero signs of wear, looks brand new except for the broke rail.

    It also looks like the rails could be replaced w/o replacing the saddle?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    159
    For whatever it's worth I have a carbon railed Romin on my SJ (hardtail) and it's been flawless for about 6 months. I've got 20 pounds on you. A different design than the Phenom, but probably similar enough for comparison.

    Hope the warranty works out (should).

    Seatpost head is clean? No burrs near the rails?
    2004 Specialized FSR Pro
    2011 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp 29er
    Civilian Luddite 29er SS

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    37
    I have just broke my Henge Pro the other day. I'm waiting to hear back too.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,678

    Specialized Phenom pro carbon saddle broke yesterday. 30min into its 1st ride

    I've broken plenty of Specialized saddles but it's been the saddle body which has let go, rather than the rails so far.

    Specialized Romin Saddle

    With carbon fibre saddle rails where the seatpost cradle contacts the saddle rails is the place to be extremely wary of. You want as much support for the carbon rails as possible. The Easton EC90 seatpost looks to have quite a short cradle, which will create stress raisers at each end. If you compare the Easton EC90 cradle to the cradle on a Thomson seatpost it appears to be around half the length so isn't as supportive of the carbon fibre rails.

    What I did with my Thomson Elite seatpost before fitting a Specialized Romin Pro carbon railed saddle was to get a metal file and round off the inner edges of the seatpost clamp cradle, so that there are no sharp edges in contact with the carbon rails.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by SpringsRubicon View Post
    For whatever it's worth I have a carbon railed Romin on my SJ (hardtail) and it's been flawless for about 6 months. I've got 20 pounds on you. A different design than the Phenom, but probably similar enough for comparison.

    Hope the warranty works out (should).

    Seatpost head is clean? No burrs near the rails?

    I like to hear that, and thats what Ive been hearing, bigger guys than me riding them w/o a single problem.

    The seatpost is brand new EC90 without a blimish, the rail slamps are that silky unidirection carbon, almost too smooth.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by TANK01 View Post
    I have just broke my Henge Pro the other day. I'm waiting to hear back too.
    good luck to you/us

  7. #7
    I Tried Them ALL... Moderator
    Reputation: Zachariah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,317
    The problem itself, is the 7mm carbon rails(ok, for Chromoly and Titanium). Most high-end, carbon saddles have a 9mm rail diameter...or, 7mm wide by 9mm tall(ie; Bontrager Inform RXL saddle), so a standard carbon top/bottom clamp seatpost can be used. Those extra 2mm makes a huge difference. Also, a weaved carbon rail is not quite as strong as a unidirectional, rolled layup.
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,471
    I have over 3300 miles on my Phenom carbon pro. The Phenom is 7x9mm rail, not a standard 7mm. The EC90 is not compatible seat post, as Specialized will tell when you try to warranty it.

    The FACT process is not unidirectional on the seat rails, uni is only used for applications where flex is need.

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Specialized Bicycle Components
    2014 S-Works Epic WC
    2014 Yeti ARC
    2014 S-Works Crux Disc

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    get a metal file and round off the inner edges of the seatpost clamp cradle, so that there are no sharp edges in contact with the carbon rails.
    This was exactly my same thoughts, I was thinking about putting a very slight bevel at the end of the seat clamp, so that the force was a little more linear. Not just a 90deg rounded bend.
    The Easton EC90 seatpost looks to have quite a short cradle, which will create stress raisers at each end. If you compare the Easton EC90 cradle to the cradle on a Thomson seatpost it appears to be around half the length so isn't as supportive of the carbon fibre rails.

    I have had the Thompson seat post its clamp is bigger but not much cannot remember. the ec90 is 1.25".

    I cant follow your example about clamp length in my case, since it broke at the end of the clamp, not the front and back.

    without going into a huge talk about forces.

    my breakage was more along the lines of this anology.

    Drill hole in 1in thick metal wall, insert carbon rail to center of rail length push down till failure. Even if the wall was 3in thick the rail would still break at the same place.
    Yes the saddle is a little dif than this experiment, the saddle body will transfer some forces to the front but not the kind of loads the rear is seeing since we/I sit on our tail bones at the rear of the seat.

    seat post clamp length was not the reason of my failure, the clamp did its job and nothing broke within its grasp.

    If specialized needs more than a 1.25" clamping surface, they should list it on the package.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    The rails are 7x9s.

    The outer rails look to consist of an outer weave with solid center, probably made from 24k or greater carbon tow.

    The design is strong enough.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    I have over 3300 miles on my Phenom carbon pro. The Phenom is 7x9mm rail, not a standard 7mm. The EC90 is not compatible seat post, as Specialized will tell when you try to warranty it.

    The FACT process is not unidirectional on the seat rails, uni is only used for applications where flex is need.

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    "NOTE: Oversized 7x9mm carbon rails are not compatible with seatposts equipped with side-load clamp mechanisms for 7mm round rails"

    This is straight from their website.

    The ec90 is compatible with a top and bottom clamp mechanism.
    The only time specialized speak of rail design, they state no side loading.

    So please tell me why the EC90 is not compatible?

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,678

    Specialized Phenom pro carbon saddle broke yesterday. 30min into its 1st ride

    Quote Originally Posted by Itsaboutthebike View Post
    This was exactly my same thoughts, I was thinking about putting a very slight bevel at the end of the seat clamp, so that the force was a little more linear. Not just a 90deg rounded bend.

    I have had the Thompson seat post its clamp is bigger but not much cannot remember. the ec90 is 1.25".

    I cant follow your example about clamp length in my case, since it broke at the end of the clamp, not the front and back.
    The cradle on a Thomson Elite seatpost is between 1.6" and 1.7" in length (my bike is packed away and difficult to reach to measure properly this evening).

    Have a look at this link on the causes of broken saddle rails where they mention seatpost cradle length as a factor in saddle rail breakages, not just carbon fibre saddle rails either:

    "Iíve personally broken seat rails made of titanium, other alloys and steel, so I realize theyíre vulnerable (I havenít broken my only carbon-rail saddle, yet). I know that itís important to install the seat so that the seatpost clamp is holding the center of the rails or within the markings found on the rails on many seats today. Otherwise, thereís too much pressure on the wrong part of the rails, which can contribute to failure.

    What I didnít know, and what Mike explained, is that some seatpost clamps donít fit the rails correctly and can create stress risers that slowly but surely cause the rail(s) to break. In his 15 years of seeing broken rails, Mike says that 95% break within 1 to 3mm of the rail exit point from the seatpost clamp cradle. And he has observed some cradles less than 30mm in length (front to back), and side-clamping cradles, and both are more likely to break rails due to the short clamping surface and minimal rail support.

    Tip: Mike and Bob also explained that riding technique and where you ride impacts rail longevity. Roadies who bounce their upper body with each pedal stroke stress the rails much more than smooth pedalers. Cycling over rough roads has a similar effect."
    Roadbikerider.com

    http://www.roadbikerider.com/events/...ls-jim-langley

    The real test is going to be when you get the replacement saddle to discover whether it will last longer than your first saddle did. One broken rail could just be a faulty saddle but if it happens again then it makes it more likely that it could be a combination of factors causing the breakage.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: argibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    419

    Specialized Phenom pro carbon saddle broke yesterday. 30min into its 1st ride

    I have broken three in the last two years.
    Giant Team Bike & Bean-Marin Co., CA

    https://www.facebook.com/GiantBikeandBean

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    How and what was there warranty outcome.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    The cradle on a Thomson Elite seatpost is between 1.6" and 1.7" in length (my bike is packed away and difficult to reach to measure properly this evening).

    Have a look at this link on the causes of broken saddle rails where they mention seatpost cradle length as a factor in saddle rail breakages, not just carbon fibre saddle rails either:

    "Iíve personally broken seat rails made of titanium, other alloys and steel, so I realize theyíre vulnerable (I havenít broken my only carbon-rail saddle, yet). I know that itís important to install the seat so that the seatpost clamp is holding the center of the rails or within the markings found on the rails on many seats today. Otherwise, thereís too much pressure on the wrong part of the rails, which can contribute to failure.

    What I didnít know, and what Mike explained, is that some seatpost clamps donít fit the rails correctly and can create stress risers that slowly but surely cause the rail(s) to break. In his 15 years of seeing broken rails, Mike says that 95% break within 1 to 3mm of the rail exit point from the seatpost clamp cradle. And he has observed some cradles less than 30mm in length (front to back), and side-clamping cradles, and both are more likely to break rails due to the short clamping surface and minimal rail support.

    Tip: Mike and Bob also explained that riding technique and where you ride impacts rail longevity. Roadies who bounce their upper body with each pedal stroke stress the rails much more than smooth pedalers. Cycling over rough roads has a similar effect."
    Roadbikerider.com

    Preventing and Fixing Broken Seat Rails by Jim Langley | Road Bike Rider

    The real test is going to be when you get the replacement saddle to discover whether it will last longer than your first saddle did. One broken rail could just be a faulty saddle but if it happens again then it makes it more likely that it could be a combination of factors causing the breakage.

    Your right about the next test, makes me just want to get the level lower with the Ti rail.. I raced a hard-tail with hallow Ti rails and ec90 post for years it has tons of crashes on it and I even removed the leather cover with only a thin piece of foam on the sit bones its never failed me yet.

    The S one was on my new and first full suspension I know it hasn't experienced 1/5 the loads of my old hard-tail.

    As for length of the the seat clamp being a factor.
    When I sit and ride on my saddle my sit bones are putting most of the force on the rear of the saddle. Its just a leverage arm and doesn't care what past the leverage point as long as its locked in and not moving. My saddle was pushed forward but not out of range of the markings with another inch of room if I so dared. This did increase the leverage on the arm, but not outside of spec.


    If the Thompson is 1.6" then if I centered it in the same spot as my ec90 1.25" that would give me about .175" less length of leverage arm on the rear rail. Thats the on scenario I would see it making a difference. I could achieve this by moving the saddle .175" forward.


    On our other thought, if we knew the amount the rail could flex before failure. We could slightly bevel the last 7mm or so of the bottom rear clamp to give it a bit more flex before the rail just snaped off (this might keep it from ever happening.. The rear clamp ID edge is rounded but not tapered

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsaboutthebike View Post
    Your right about the next test, makes me just want to get the level lower with the Ti rail.. I raced a hard-tail with hallow Ti rails and ec90 post for years it has tons of crashes on it and I even removed the leather cover with only a thin piece of foam on the sit bones its never failed me yet.

    The S one was on my new and first full suspension I know it hasn't experienced 1/5 the loads of my old hard-tail.
    What type of saddle was your old one? I like the shape of Specialized saddles but I've also managed to break nearly all the Specialized saddles that I've had. They're not hugely durable. The image attachments in the Specialized Romin Saddle thread aren't working but here's an example of one time where the saddle body broke.



    Riding on full suspension I suspect that saddles may actually have a harder life than on a hardtail. The reason being that on a hardtail you usually get out of the saddle to avoid jarring, using finesse to avoid obstacles so that you're not actually sat down for the biggest hits. On a full suspension bike you can sit down, largely ignore good technique and plow through a lot more obstacles seated, letting the suspension do the work. A good example of how this affects the saddle would be a road with a row of shops nearby. The council had the genius idea of filling the road with huge speedbumps for traffic calming. They're massive. On my Specialized Epic the fastest way down this road is to stay seated and keep pedalling throughout without interruptions, including over the speed bumps. No skill required, just point and go. When you do that however the bike drops away and there is quite a hard hit as you land back on the saddle each time, even with the suspension taking out some of the impact. I tend to do the same offroad too.

    Saying that, breaking a saddle rail after 30 minutes is way too short a time to be reasonable. It was most likely faulty to begin with.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    28
    I wanted the phenom for the stiffness of the shell body, most shells sag to the sides at the rear sit bones eventually giving you a numby on those long climbs. I cant believe it broke there.

    Your right I was trying to teach myself to stay seated and keep pedaling, the only times I rode a full susser was at the whiskey 50 5+yrs ago and at interbike 8yrs ago. Other than that I never touch them. Now Im gettin on up in age and wanted to see if they were faster on my home trails.

    It think my old saddle is a fizik but it so old and honed down there is no label on it, It was in the sale/get rid of box at my old shop $15. My friend watched me buy it then rip the leather cover off it, only leaving the last 1/3 of foam and then I dremeled out a prostate hole. It was ugly but I was racing and wanted a 115g saddle, and I dont think they were making them then.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: argibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    419

    Specialized Phenom pro carbon saddle broke yesterday. 30min into its 1st ride

    Mine broke in crashes, but first time breaking a saddle rail in a crash. They were replaced under warranty thankfully. Going back to Ti rails.
    Giant Team Bike & Bean-Marin Co., CA

    https://www.facebook.com/GiantBikeandBean

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: madsedan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,465
    I rode a phenom pro with carbon rails about a year ago or so and I was every bit of 235# at the time and had no issues. Spec said there was no rider weight limit and no specification on seat post clamp type. I bought it at an LBS and had them install just in case I had warranty issue but never had a problem.
    Hardrock 29er, Niner EMD9, Cannondale F29, Camber Expert, 650b Nickel all gone.
    2014 Giant Anthem 27.5 here.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: las-palmas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    84
    I have been 15K kilometers on a S-Works Toupť full Carbon saddle, no padding over the last year, Thompson Masterpiece seat-post, Ibis Mojo.
    No problems.

    I noticed that nobody in this thread have mentioned anything about clamping pressure.
    Did you use a torque wrench properly adjusted?


  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    137
    I have mine on easton ec90 post and no problems,there is a 240 weight limit.
    2013 epic comp
    2013 supersix evo

  22. #22
    Crash Dummy In Training
    Reputation: PauLCa916's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    687
    I was told you need to change the clamp to the Specialized 9mm made for the Carbon rail seat post.
    They are on Specialized site they are $20 their site is down right now so I couldn't get link to the part.
    ​​
    2012 Stump Jumper Comp 29'er H.T.
    1997 Rock Hopper / Manitou TI Bulge Fork / Shimano STX-3 x 7 P.O.S.​

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by PauLCa916 View Post
    I was told you need to change the clamp to the Specialized 9mm made for the Carbon rail seat post.
    They are on Specialized site they are $20 their site is down right now so I couldn't get link to the part.
    Only if its a side clamping cradle,top clamping cradle is fine.
    2013 epic comp
    2013 supersix evo

Similar Threads

  1. Saddle like the original phenom
    By carlhulit in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-20-2013, 11:49 AM
  2. Old Phenom Saddle VS New Model Phenom...
    By durianrider in forum Specialized
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-10-2013, 10:44 PM
  3. Broke Two Phenom Saddles!
    By onepivot in forum Specialized
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-24-2012, 12:43 PM
  4. New 2011 Specialized Phenom Expert Saddle!
    By Woogie1 in forum Specialized
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 08-10-2011, 12:06 PM
  5. New saddle advice, buy the Specialized Phenom, now!
    By madsedan in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-31-2011, 11:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •