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  1. #1
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    Speci you better wake up.....

    Giant is releasing 2 650b bikes at sea otter . So will speci be late to this party also? I think they have been to busy ramming 10k 29 ears down their dealers throats.

    So lets see who has a fad 650 bike or one coming?..
    Santa Cruz
    Jamis
    kHs
    Giant
    Intense
    Rocky mtn
    Foes
    Scott
    Norco
    Gt
    Trek
    And that's just the start.......wait till sea otter

    And I started on 26 back in the day had 4 29ers in 5 years and then rode a 650 bike.......oops. Big mistake I now own a 650b and sold the 29 er

  2. #2
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    I second this motion and send a virtual, big cuppa "Please" to Specialized for a 120mm travel (front and rear), 650b Camber. Carry on.

  3. #3
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    Do you really think that Speci will present a 27.5 bike with 120 mm travel after they have switched ALL short travel bikes to 29 inch and furtheremore introduced the 2014 29inch enduro? Never ever.

  4. #4
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    And that's the reason they will get smoked in that catagory. Speci also said they would never make a 29 ER and now that's all they sell.

  5. #5
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    Those Giant bikes are very nice. I love that there are so many wheel size choices available these days.

    If anyone thinks Specialized decided to forego the 27.5" without a lot of serious consideration and years of research and testing, then they are mistaken. This is absolutely a business decision. Specialized is clearly betting on the 29er. Will they lose that bet? I'm not so sure.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    And that's the reason they will get smoked in that catagory. Speci also said they would never make a 29 ER and now that's all they sell.
    Um... Yeah... If Specialized sees a large enough opportunity in a given category, they will take the time to see what works, build a product that people will buy, market the crap out of it, and do well. Case in point: their 29er line. They're more of a "fast" follower than a market leader. But when you have the R&D and marketing budget they do, it doesn't matter.

  7. #7
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    I'm certain they've played with it and will watch the market. But never say 'never' unless you don't mind hearing "I told you so." Specialized is successful because of their business decisions, and they decide to change their bikes often enough to keep up with consumer demand/desire. The market IS speaking, and as Vizsladog has pointed out, they are already losing market share in the game of "Lead, follow or get out of the way." Sucks because they build great value into their bikes (not to mention they fit me well ).

  8. #8
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    Another Wheel size............................
    Visiting St george/Hurricane? Stay at my vacation rental. Discounts for MTB's

    http://www.vrbo.com/392904

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  9. #9
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    I heard that Fox isn't making 26" forks in anything other than the evolution series. Either 650B or 29 I the better series...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway View Post
    Another Wheel size............................
    I'm guessing you haven't ridden a 650b? I did after owing 3 different 29ers in 4 years. Now it's the only bike I own.

    It climbed better, accelerated better, handled better , had a shorter wheelbase ,had shorter chain stays and rolled almost as well as the 29ers.........yeah we don't need another wheelsize

  11. #11
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    Pretty sure Big Ole' Speci is content with being the one company that can make a 155mm travel 29er with shorter stays than most of those 650b bikes. If you're gonna go big, go big I suppose.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    I'm guessing you haven't ridden a 650b? I did after owing 3 different 29ers in 4 years. Now it's the only bike I own.

    It climbed better, accelerated better, handled better , had a shorter wheelbase ,had shorter chain stays and rolled almost as well as the 29ers.........yeah we don't need another wheelsize
    Isn't that kind of dependent on which 29ers you're comparing to which 650bs? I've ridden multiple poor-handling 29ers...but my current one handles pretty well. If Specialized can make 29ers that handle as well as most 650bs...why would they make 650bs as well?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough View Post
    Um... Yeah... If Specialized sees a large enough opportunity in a given category, they will take the time to see what works, build a product that people will buy, market the crap out of it, and do well. Case in point: their 29er line. They're more of a "fast" follower than a market leader. But when you have the R&D and marketing budget they do, it doesn't matter.
    This x 1000. Specialized was vocal anti-29er early on, and came to 29ers slowly... I think I still have an original Fast Trak in the garage somewhere, which was their "toe in the water" I believe. Now, they market the (and sell) the crap of 29ers. Love their 29er tires, and am picking up an Epic soon. If they ever 'need' to into the 27.5 market, they will, and sell a boatload.

  14. #14
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    Does the tallboy and epic count as 29ers?....

    Um the 150mm 29er speci has has chain stays an inch longer than the 26 stumpy and they are longer than any 650b I've ridden

  15. #15
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    Re: Speci you better wake up.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    Does the tallboy and epic count as 29ers?....

    Um the 150mm 29er speci has has chain stays an inch longer than the 26 stumpy and they are longer than any 650b I've ridden
    That's absolutely incorrect, at least be factual. The 26" stumpy has chainstays 420mm long, the 29" Enduro has chainstays 430mm long, less than 1//2" longer. The newest player in the 27.5" market, Santa Cruz Bronsan has 440mm chainstays.

    The 29" Enduro has shorter, or equal stays than most 26" bikes of the equivalent travel, and shorter than nearly all 650B of equivalent travel.
    Last edited by Finksta; 04-16-2013 at 01:07 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    I'm guessing you haven't ridden a 650b? I did after owing 3 different 29ers in 4 years. Now it's the only bike I own.

    It climbed better, accelerated better, handled better , had a shorter wheelbase ,had shorter chain stays and rolled almost as well as the 29ers.........yeah we don't need another wheelsize
    Which 29ers are you referring too?
    how tall/fat are you?
    What is the 650b your referring to?

  17. #17
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    can't wait til they make a dedicated 650b. in the meantime, i'll use my converted epic carbon...


    DSC_0020 by cursor718, on Flickr
    yeti SB5c
    specialized epic comp carbon - 650b

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cursor718 View Post
    can't wait til they make a dedicated 650b. in the meantime, i'll use my converted epic carbon...


    DSC_0020 by cursor718, on Flickr
    Very nice - are you using the original 26" fork?
    Hows the clearance?

  19. #19
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    yes, stock fork.


    DSC_0023 by cursor718, on Flickr


    DSC_0021 by cursor718, on Flickr
    yeti SB5c
    specialized epic comp carbon - 650b

  20. #20
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    Camber + 650b
    Speci you better wake up.....-camber-650b-1024-x-768-.jpg

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeSPOOK View Post
    Camber + 650b
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Camber + 650b (1024 x 768).jpg 
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    What year is that Camber and is that a 650 specific RS fork?

    Thanks in advance.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    What year is that Camber and is that a 650 specific RS fork?

    Thanks in advance.
    That be a 2013 Camber - but changed every part on the bike except the shock.
    Has a 120mm travel Reba RL 29er fork.
    Just testing some wheels - not convinced with the 650b's - just a tad too low BB, but goes well otherwise.

  23. #23
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    Why bother? I have troubles telling 26 inch bike from 27.5 and the fact that many just fit 27.5 wheel into 26 inch frame is telling... After they released that new Enduro with 16.9 inch chainstays and 155 mm rear travel they will probably just drop all the short travel 26 inch bikes and be done... I would not be surprised though if 2015 will see 27.5 long travel models. And dirt jumping bikes (the most fun of all!) will stay 26 inch - or below - for good.
    But all this stuff is not important comparing to the main question - when will this bloody snow stop in Colorado?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio8691 View Post
    Why bother?
    Because I can.
    Have put 29er wheels back on my Camber, and prefer bike with them.

  25. #25
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    Maybe an old idea, I dunno, but I was daydreaming today how in a few years time (when my current fork was shot) I'd whack a 140 mm 650b front fork in my 2012 Camber, plonk in a 650b front wheel, but keep the 29er rear wheel. Best of all worlds, and probably would maintain the head angle geometry pretty close?

    I suppose such a hybrid would be called a 659er?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeSPOOK View Post
    Because I can.
    Have put 29er wheels back on my Camber, and prefer bike with them.
    Got it. I thought it was a 26" Camber. Good call to keep it 29r and as bb designed.

    I had a Salsa Spearfish and the pedal strikes became an issue, with 29" wheels.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  27. #27
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    With Giant releasing 27.5's soon, I would be surprised if spec doesnt have them in the pipeline too

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Znarf View Post
    I heard that Fox isn't making 26" forks in anything other than the evolution series. Either 650B or 29 I the better series...
    Source?

  29. #29
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    The crap about 650b being only slightly taller is bs. My Stan's flow with maxis ardent 2.25 is 27.8 tall. The paceinti 2.4 is 28 inches tall.


    Why bother with 27.5???? Because a 29er doesn't handle as well or accelerate as well but the 27.5 rolls almost as well as the 29er. Do you think that all these bike company's coming out with 650b bikes are doing it just to sell a new bike? uh no.....they have tested and seen the advantages of this wheel size. Giant spent over a 100k on each carbon mold for each size bike frame. This wheel size is here to stay.......remember when they said 29ers were a fad??? 27.5 bikes are gonna do in. 2 years what it took 29ers 10 years to do.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    Because a 29er doesn't handle as well or accelerate as well but the 27.5 rolls almost as well as the 29er.
    That very well may be true - but may be it is "27.5 handles worse than 26 but does not have the same rolling advantage as 29"?

    Seriously though - in perfect world everybody will run custom wheel size (front and rear different) on each of his/her bikes. But in real cycling economy I am afraid 3 wheel sizes is too expensive for manufacturers to support in a long run (when "switching" wave subsides). It is now proven that 29 inch is not a problem from geometry point of view (hardtails, Enduro 29, Devinci Atlas) so I think it would be better to make 29 inch components better - lighter and stiffer - and not too expensive.

    But yeah, if all goes well - why stop at 27.5 - may be 28.125 is even better

  31. #31
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    Marketing, thats why :P

  32. #32
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    So bow down to 29" because that's what you like? Nah, I'd like to decide for myself, thanks. I'm beginning to get less tolerable about the myopic minded, 29'r fanboys ramming their opinions between my chain stays. Don't like another wheel option? Fine, but mind your own or be prepared to get told to ST*U. Trolls need not apply. That's all, now get back to work.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    Why bother with 27.5???? Because a 29er doesn't handle as well or accelerate as well but the 27.5 rolls almost as well as the 29er.
    Couldn't one also phrase it, "A 27.5 doesn't roll as well as well as a 29er, but the 29er handles and accelerates almost as well as a 27.5"?

  34. #34
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    Speci you better wake up.....

    I can not imagine Speci introducing 27.5 - they always told us that differences between 27.5 and 29 are too small. Furtheremore they deleted nearly all 26 inch bikes and even introduced the new 29 inch enduro. If they would have been interested in 27.5 they could have used it for that.

    In the end it is about how many bikes they sell and if you see how hard it can be to get a certain speci bike because they sell out very quickly there seems to be no need for a new wheel size.

  35. #35
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    Re: Speci you better wake up.....

    ^^ this exactly, why would they bother pumping money into 650B when they're 29" models sell out so quickly. My lbs has told me that the first run of Enduro 29ers has pretty much sold out in Australia before they have even been delivered.

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Worker View Post
    I can not imagine Speci introducing 27.5 - they always told us that differences between 27.5 and 29 are too small.
    wouldnt that be the difference between 26 and 650b is too small to bother (2cm approx)

    26 wheel with nobby nic 2.4 = 683mm (26.9 in)
    650b wheel with 2.35 nobby nic = 700mm (27.5)

    compare to 29 wheels:

    2.25 racing ralph =738mm (near 29 inch)
    2.35 hans damph =749mm (29.5)

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_rex View Post
    So bow down to 29" because that's what you like? Nah, I'd like to decide for myself, thanks. I'm beginning to get less tolerable about the myopic minded, 29'r fanboys ramming their opinions between my chain stays. Don't like another wheel option? Fine, but mind your own or be prepared to get told to ST*U. Trolls need not apply. That's all, now get back to work.
    Personally, I don't care if Spec offers 650B or not... but... I can't help noticing the irony of your post, in a thread started by 650B fanboys ramming their opinions between everyone's chainstays.

    LOL

  38. #38
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    Oh man another debate rages on.

  39. #39
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    I'm pretty sure Specialized will be fine.
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  40. #40
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    650A is dead center between 26 and 29er wheel size
    we should wait for that
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  41. #41
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    After all the work put into the Enduro..

    and that was the bike that everyone said would never be made, because that much travel just wouldn't work with 29ers..and yet, it's selling out everywhere. Specialized themselves said that they'd never do the 29er because they thought it was a fad. They are a business, and businesses provide what the customer wants. The post calling Specy "fast followers" was right on point. And it's smart. Let everyone else spend their money figuring out what works and what doesn't, then they come out with their version that will probably be more advanced. I think the Camber platform would be the logical launch point for any kind of 650b introduction in their lineup, simply because it doesn't involve the Brain shock. Simplifies the process. But after introducing the Enduro with it's 16.9" chainstays, I don't know that I'd be looking for that Camber 650b anytime soon. They've been in business a long time for a reason...let the market completely develop first, then dominate.
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  42. #42
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    Wow. So speci is the only ones not gonna sell a 27.5? Sea otter this year should be called 650b otter. When every other manufacture starts selling them and taking floor space they will make them. Scott sold out of every 650b bike they made almost instantly and their 29ers were sitting in the warehouse. I think the 29 ER fateful here should ride a good one then decide like I did. Sorry if speci jumped on the fad bike they said they would never make and sank all their attention on them. Meanwhile giant has been testing theirs for 2 years.

    Norco.....16.8 chainstays 140 mm of travel and carbon. Mate that with their version of fsr suspension licensed from speci that has the pivots moved so it doesn't need a band aid called a brain and you have the bike speci should be making.

    Norco Sight Carbon 650b/27.5 | Mountain Bike Review

  43. #43
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    Re: Speci you better wake up.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    Wow. So speci is the only ones not gonna sell a 27.5? Sea otter this year should be called 650b otter. When every other manufacture starts selling them and taking floor space they will make them. Scott sold out of every 650b bike they made almost instantly and their 29ers were sitting in the warehouse. I think the 29 ER fateful here should ride a good one then decide like I did. Sorry if speci jumped on the fad bike they said they would never make and sank all their attention on them. Meanwhile giant has been testing theirs for 2 years.

    Norco.....16.8 chainstays 140 mm of travel and carbon. Mate that with their version of fsr suspension licensed from speci that has the pivots moved so it doesn't need a band aid called a brain and you have the bike speci should be making.

    Norco Sight Carbon 650b/27.5 | Mountain Bike Review
    You obviously have some sort of specialized hate for some reason. No one is forcing you to buy one buddy.

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  44. #44
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    Re: Speci you better wake up.....

    And enduro 29 is 16.9 chain stay with 155 travel, so not sure what point you are trying to make with that Norco comparison.

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  45. #45
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    Hate? I have 3 in the garage. The comparison is that it didn't take a crazy down tube to get the rear triangle to work and clear the tire. Just imagine one with 16 inch stays.

    No matter they'll have to build one. When the largest bike company in the world(giant) has some coming then you know it's a legit deal. Wonder if Merida will have one? They still own 49 percent of spceci right?

    Edit: whoops.....guess they already are. Het aren't they the second largest bike brand in the world?
    Merida trail bikes to adopt 650b for 2014 - MBR | MBR

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    When the largest bike company in the world(giant) has some coming then you know it's a legit deal.

    good logic.

  47. #47
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    I can't wait for this market to stabilize so that I can have more than 3 months to think about my next bike purchase without having all the new-thing-to-ride be replaced by some totally new (& incompatible) design.

    Give me 29er SJ FSR with short chainstays (enduro style) and I believe we will have a deal

  48. #48
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    Sign me up for a Stumpjumper Evo 29 with 16.5 xD stays then.

    Seriously: when I can get a 29er with short stays, I would never go 27.5. But I am tall and lanky, for smaller riders it might make more sense.

    I'll ride an Enduro 29 later this year and the rest of the 2014 Speci lineup also. Then I'll put in an order for a frameset.

    Don't know what I'll end up with. If they do the short chainstay stuff on the Stumpjumper series this year, I'll buy that probably. If not, I'll get an Enduro.

    I'll also ride the Bronson and Tallboy LTC until then.

    The short chainstay treatment seems pretty interesting though. I can see Specialized selling their 29ers in the bigger sizes, 650B in everything smaller and 26 will probably fade out in most serious models. In the long run. The speed a 29er carries is really nice though.

  49. #49
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    The handling difference on 26/650b/29ers are not based solely on chainstay length. There's also the difference in the gyroscopic effect:
    Gyro Effect of 29" wheel

    One of the reasons I don't understand the 29er enduro thing as much as in an epic or such. On my enduro one of the things I love about it is how quick handling it is, and how "flickable" it is. Hell I've ridden it in Whistler bike park. Put 29er wheels on it, and though it might roll faster I think that effect would be negated, regardless of chainstay length.

    Quote from pinkbike's take:
    "To further understand more about the differences between the 26 and 29-inch Enduros, I was lucky enough to take the bike back to one of my home trails. Taking the bike down a trail I knew inch-by-inch was the perfect opportunity to get my head around its finer points. While the handling is fast on the 29, faster than many 26-inch bikes even, I could catch it out. There is one section where you must kink between three rocks, threading a very fine line between them to stay off the brakes. On the 29 it didn't quite make it, there was almost a feel of understeer at the exit of the section and a handful of brake was needed to avoid the final rock. It was harder to flick through the technical sections that I am used to doing and to launch off tiny undulations in the trail. But we are talking tiny percentages and small details on a trail that I sometimes ride six times a week; they don't detract from how shockingly capable this bike is."

    Maybe as most trails built now are these smooth "flow" trails though, the 29er thing does make more sense. I dunno. For technical dh type riding I'd prefer not to have 29er. 650b might be just right for the type of riding I do on my enduro aka a bit of everything technical and smooth.

  50. #50
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    ^^^^the voice of reason IMHO

    I can't see why you would put 29 on any travel greater than about 120mm.

    I can see 27.5 being the mainstream middle of the distribution bell curve in a few years time (most common across all types of bikes) with 26 (gravity bombers and small bikes) and 29 (XC and XL bikes) being the less common tails, offered as lower volume niches.

    I'll bet Spec is preparing already. When the market speaks fully, they will be ready to jump on. Giant has made the call and is the fast follower. Spec is the slow follower.
    Last edited by marvin rouge; 04-22-2013 at 11:24 PM.

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