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  1. #1
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    S3 direct mount front derailleur installation

    Anyone have any definitive info on how to install the S3 XX direct mount front derailleur on the 2011 S-Works Epic 29er frame? I have it mounted but want to make sure I have it correct before I put any signficant shifting force on it. Specialized doesn't have ANY info on the issue and I just want to make sure I get it correct. I was able to speak with tech support and they were unable to answer all of my questions. Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by erichwic; 02-15-2011 at 09:56 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I dont see the problem with this FD. What are your questions which the Speci Support couldn`t answer?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichwic
    Anyone have any definitive info on how to install the S3 XX direct mount front derailleur on the 2011 S-Works Epic 29er frame? I have it mounted but want to make sure I have it correct before I put any signficant shifting force on it. Specialized doesn't have ANY info on the issue and I just want to make sure I get it correct. I was able to speak with tech support and they were unable to answer all of my questions. Thanks for the help.
    it is installed correctly
    just ride... who cares how big your wheels are

  4. #4
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    Isn't the only way to mount it to bolt it on to the mount? Hence direct mount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Worker
    I dont see the problem with this FD. What are your questions which the Speci Support couldn`t answer?
    Well, the frame came with 2 little bags of bolts and washers, along with a FD mounting bracket. When I contacted Specialized support they asked for pics....I sent them what I had. They told me I had the wrong bracket and needed a new parts kit. The bracket the sent was the same and the part kit was totally different. So, I'm just making sure I have the right stuff. Just amazed that Specialized didn't provide explicit instructions on what washers and bolts are needed and where.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swami Scott
    Yeah, I've seen that. But it doesn't provide adequate information. You would think a $4500 frame would come with some decent manuals.
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    Can someone who got a complete bike take and post a picture?
    I'm still waiting for the xx S3's to come back in stock at qbp.

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    Another question for those who have their Epic 29ers already. Can you please measure the axle to crown distance? It is from the bottom of the headtube to the center of the front axle. Thanks a bunch.

  10. #10
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    Look in the s-works impressions thread. Their is a better diagram on page 6 I believe( if it's not page 6 look at pages 4-7 I know it's in that thread)

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    Okay heres how it's done,
    All 2011 S-Works Epic framsets come with the adaptor taped to the frame and only one of the the three bolts fastened. One the the left.
    The frames also come with a little baggy of zip ties, 1 gold jagwire ferrule, 1 cable squeegee, 2 small bolts at different lengths, and 1 very small and specific spacer.

    when looking straight at a sram S3 derailleur put the shorter bolt through the hole to the left and the longer one in the right. Then, you'll have the two bolts sticking through the correct holes. Next, slide the spacer over the threads of the longer bolt sticking out the back of the derailleur. Now, your set to put the derailleur up to the frame and thread those bolts on the adaptor and tighten. Those bolts will pass through the adaptor and tighten to the frame.

  13. #13
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    has anyone run an XCX to their Epic, or in my case Enduro? It's the same mounting system, and I unfortunately don't have the correct bolt lengths, so I am going to grab another from Ace tomorrow to mount my XCX to the S3 mount on the frame. The only thing that doesn't equate in my head is why the e.thirteen mount is stepped as well, when the shimano derailleurs for S3 all come with spacers to mount in this fashion. It makes for an inconvenient set up, and an added set of spacers for me to mount it.

  14. #14
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    According to the Spec website, every model of Epic was assembled with the "Shimano DMD type adapter" S3 (two mounting holes 22.1mm apart, http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/...ifications.pdf. And maybe this is for convenience since every Epic owner gets the adapter, why not mount it instead of putting it in a baggie?), but SRAM makes its S1 derailleurs with exactly the mounting hole distance (42.7mm) that the Epic rear triangle has without an adapter http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/...SRAM_XX_FD.pdf. I am wondering why this hasn't come up in the thread, and if someone could clarify please? I don't know if the x0, x9, ... lines are (or were late last year when 2011 bikes were being built up) available w/ S1 spacing, but the XX definitely is.
    Thanks, hope this helps (someone other than my curiosity).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat
    According to the Spec website, every model of Epic was assembled with the "Shimano DMD type adapter" S3 (two mounting holes 22.1mm apart, http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/...ifications.pdf. And maybe this is for convenience since every Epic owner gets the adapter, why not mount it instead of putting it in a baggie?), but SRAM makes its S1 derailleurs with exactly the mounting hole distance (42.7mm) that the Epic rear triangle has without an adapter http://cdn.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/...SRAM_XX_FD.pdf. I am wondering why this hasn't come up in the thread, and if someone could clarify please? I don't know if the x0, x9, ... lines are (or were late last year when 2011 bikes were being built up) available w/ S1 spacing, but the XX definitely is.
    Thanks, hope this helps (someone other than my curiosity).
    The SRAM FD's also come in S1, S2 & S3-specific fittings. The fitting (and the chainring-specific sizes) are stamped on the back of the FD.

    S1 - Easy to recognise, as it is the only one with a 42.7mm gap between the centres of the 2x mounting holes!

    S2 - Has a smaller 22.1mm gap between the centres of the 2x mounting holes. These 2x holes are also offset by aprox 5mm, with the front one being set further out (i.e. closer to the derailleur cage). The front mounting hole is almost flush with the inner cage of the derailleur when fully retracted (i.e. as it comes out of the box)

    S3 - Also has 22.1mm gap between the centres of the 2x mounting holes. However, these 2x holes are flat, not offset. The inner cage of the derailleur sits a fair way out from the mounting bracket (aprox 16.75mm measured from the inside of the mount bracket to the outside of the INNER cage) when fully retracted (i.e. as it comes out of the box)

  16. #16
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    what's odd is that the mount supplied from spesh has a different front to back spacing between the three holes. The first two(closest to the front) are the 22.1 mm(S3), however the rear gap is narrower by about 1.5-2 mm, thus making the xcx e type that's supposed to fit, not. The spacing is S3, but the offset is S2. so I'm going to just have to do spacers, or drill out a small section of the e-type to get the clearance for the bolt.

  17. #17
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    Yea, I have actually set one up. Run the spacer. The step is there because the S3 mount is still being refined to be used in this manor. I'm sure that soon there will be unstepped direct mounts. Make sure you have the right width spacer.
    Some bolts and a single spacer should have come with your enduro.

  18. #18
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    This one is a shimano etype(S3) on a specialized DMD with the Specialized adaptor.

    This one is a S1 mounted directly to the frame.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiwi View Post
    The SRAM FD's also come in S1, S2 & S3-specific fittings. The fitting (and the chainring-specific sizes) are stamped on the back of the FD.

    S1 - Easy to recognise, as it is the only one with a 42.7mm gap between the centres of the 2x mounting holes!

    S2 - Has a smaller 22.1mm gap between the centres of the 2x mounting holes. These 2x holes are also offset by aprox 5mm, with the front one being set further out (i.e. closer to the derailleur cage). The front mounting hole is almost flush with the inner cage of the derailleur when fully retracted (i.e. as it comes out of the box)

    S3 - Also has 22.1mm gap between the centres of the 2x mounting holes. However, these 2x holes are flat, not offset. The inner cage of the derailleur sits a fair way out from the mounting bracket (aprox 16.75mm measured from the inside of the mount bracket to the outside of the INNER cage) when fully retracted (i.e. as it comes out of the box)
    Sorry to awaken an old thread, but I'm struggling with S2/S3 right now, and trying to confirm.

    I suspect skiwi may have this reversed, in that S2 has the bolt holes flush, while S3 is the one with the front mount 5mm closer to the drive side.

    I'm looking at a 2011 Stumpy carbon frame (26" HT) right now, and the holes are flush. In order to run a Shimano FD (which uses the S3/E2) standard, I'm waiting on an adapter (shim/spacer) from Specailized that effectively moves the front mount by 5mm.

    Also, the Shimano docs all visually indicate the front mount as closer to driveside, so assming this also confims that S3/E2 a.k.a. "without backplate" is the one that isn't flush.

    Similar notes here:
    The Front Derailleur (Un)Standard « Tree Fort Bikes Blog

    That said, wanted to doubly confim because even Specialized (Canada) was previously unaware of the mount on my specific frame, and was surprised when they ultimately looked it up in their database. Confusion to say the least.

    Cheers, thx.

  20. #20
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    If you remove the BB loop from one of Shimano's E2 front derailers, you have a SRAM S3*. Shorter of the two bolt-center to bolt-center distances, and the more forward of the two bolts moved laterally (toward the crank arm) by a few millimeters.

    *one extra detail, a Shimano FD will have ovalized holes, SRAM will be round. There are good diagrams of this in your Specialized _____ FSR manual. Crescent-shaped oval filler should be supplied w/ Shimano FD. Thick washer/sleeve to take up the few millimeter offset on that front FD mounting bolt should have come w/ the frame, probably available from Specialized.


    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Sorry to awaken an old thread, but I'm struggling with S2/S3 right now, and trying to confirm.

    I suspect skiwi may have this reversed, in that S2 has the bolt holes flush, while S3 is the one with the front mount 5mm closer to the drive side.

    I'm looking at a 2011 Stumpy carbon frame (26" HT) right now, and the holes are flush. In order to run a Shimano FD (which uses the S3/E2) standard, I'm waiting on an adapter (shim/spacer) from Specailized that effectively moves the front mount by 5mm.

    Also, the Shimano docs all visually indicate the front mount as closer to driveside, so assming this also confims that S3/E2 a.k.a. "without backplate" is the one that isn't flush.

    Similar notes here:
    The Front Derailleur (Un)Standard « Tree Fort Bikes Blog

    That said, wanted to doubly confim because even Specialized (Canada) was previously unaware of the mount on my specific frame, and was surprised when they ultimately looked it up in their database. Confusion to say the least.

    Cheers, thx.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by phlegm View Post
    Sorry to awaken an old thread, but I'm struggling with S2/S3 right now, and trying to confirm.

    I suspect skiwi may have this reversed, in that S2 has the bolt holes flush, while S3 is the one with the front mount 5mm closer to the drive side.

    I'm looking at a 2011 Stumpy carbon frame (26" HT) right now, and the holes are flush. In order to run a Shimano FD (which uses the S3/E2) standard, I'm waiting on an adapter (shim/spacer) from Specailized that effectively moves the front mount by 5mm.

    Also, the Shimano docs all visually indicate the front mount as closer to driveside, so assming this also confims that S3/E2 a.k.a. "without backplate" is the one that isn't flush.

    Similar notes here:
    The Front Derailleur (Un)Standard « Tree Fort Bikes Blog

    That said, wanted to doubly confim because even Specialized (Canada) was previously unaware of the mount on my specific frame, and was surprised when they ultimately looked it up in their database. Confusion to say the least.

    Cheers, thx.
    The S3 standard is the one you require. The holes on the FD are flat as I noted originally, but there is an adapter required (at least on the EPIC) to allow it to mount to the swingarm.

  22. #22
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    In case it's unclear

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KSCmEOV1hJnIITL__oxiOWQru1dScgpfHvJar6Znuw0?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YbrDNmdbGlE/T8KkZf4VjVI/AAAAAAAAANs/c9u-lRpWYe0/s800/2011_epic_29_alloy_DMD.jpg" height="556" width="800" /></a>

    This is how it works on a 2011 alloy-framed Epic 29.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KSCmEOV1hJnIITL__oxiOWQru1dScgpfHvJar6Znuw0?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YbrDNmdbGlE/T8KkZf4VjVI/AAAAAAAAANs/c9u-lRpWYe0/s800/2011_epic_29_alloy_DMD.jpg" height="556" width="800" /></a>

    This is how it works on a 2011 alloy-framed Epic 29.
    Thanks snfoilhat/skiwi for the updates.

    Mine is a hardtail, so the 3-holed adapter doesn't apply. Grew tired of waiting on the adapter in mail, so I bought a 5mm stainless lock nut from Home Depot. It is ~4.9mm deep and fit behind the Shimano derailleur perfectly. (Had to drill out the nut a bit so it would slide on instead of thread.)

    Finally out riding!

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    Hi there,

    I have a similar problem.

    Customer brought in a 2012 Spez Stumpjumper comp.

    Its fitted with a Shimano XT m770 66-69deg FD.

    Now my problem is that the FD on the "lowest" setting is still to high. The clearance between the cage and big blade is to much and thus causes problems with the shifting.

    Any advise?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails S3 direct mount front derailleur installation-photo.jpg  

    S3 direct mount front derailleur installation-photo1.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRuan View Post
    Hi there,

    I have a similar problem.

    Customer brought in a 2012 Spez Stumpjumper comp.

    Its fitted with a Shimano XT m770 66-69deg FD.

    Now my problem is that the FD on the "lowest" setting is still to high. The clearance between the cage and big blade is to much and thus causes problems with the shifting.

    Any advise?
    What chainrings are you running on the bike?

  26. #26
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    9sp front der with 10sp 42t chainrings?

  27. #27
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    Not sure if you are still fighting this but you need to remove the derailleur and you will see the in each of the two holes are adapters to fill the oval opening in the derailleur holes. Flip them to the opposite position to lower the derailleur, unlike SRAM you get two mounting positions with Shimano so you can work with large or small top rings. The manual for your frame will explain the high/low setting.

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    hi, i have trouble to fit my sram X0 S3 (3x10) on my 2011 sworks frame.
    no problem to attach the front derailleur on the DMD adapter, but then, chain is scraping on the small chainring (even with lower stop unscrewed)... help !!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by red riding hood View Post
    hi, i have trouble to fit my sram X0 S3 (3x10) on my 2011 sworks frame.
    no problem to attach the front derailleur on the DMD adapter, but then, chain is scraping on the small chainring (even with lower stop unscrewed)... help !!
    Sorry, that's because the 2011 Sworks is 2x10 or X11 only.

  30. #30
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    S3 direct mount front derailleur installation

    Quote Originally Posted by skiwi View Post
    Sorry, that's because the 2011 Sworks is 2x10 or X11 only.
    I'm not following you? You can still use a triple chainset on the 2011/ 2012/ 2013 Epic.

    It sounds like the chainset on Red Riding Hood's bike needs an additional spacer on the drive side crank spindle to move the chainrings outboard slightly. That should resolve the clearance issue and stop the chain rubbing on the inside of the front derailleur whilst in the granny ring.

  31. #31
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    Actually you are right when I think about it. Although the SW was launched with XX only, the Spec crank chainring was a 3-speed with the outer positions locked off.

    To the OP your issue will be that you will likely have the incorrect granny chainring for your front derailleur. For DMD front derailleurs you need to match the correct derailleur for your chainring combinations. AFAIK there is only 1 spec for X0 3x10 which is 22/33/44 - so if you don't have a 22 granny you are SooL.

  32. #32
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    hi, thanks for your answer. if i had spacer, the crankset is too tighten... (bearings are compressed). so to your opinion it's not possible to get an sram front derailleur working with triple crankset ?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by red riding hood View Post
    hi, thanks for your answer. if i had spacer, the crankset is too tighten... (bearings are compressed). so to your opinion it's not possible to get an sram front derailleur working with triple crankset ?
    What size is your small chainring?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiwi View Post
    What size is your small chainring?
    That's a personal question.

  35. #35
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    My understanding is that it's the chain rubbing on the inner cage plate of the front derailleur whilst in the granny ring, (running out of inwards adjustment on the front derailleur adjustment screw), rather than the chainring itself catching on the front derailleur?

  36. #36
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    yes, it's not the chainring itself catching front derailleur, but the chain on the inner cage plate.
    settings :
    PF30 bottom bracket
    BB30 fsa 22,33,44 afterburner crankset
    sram x0 3x10 front derailleur

    thanks for your help...

  37. #37
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    S3 direct mount front derailleur installation

    Quote Originally Posted by red riding hood View Post
    yes, it's not the chainring itself catching front derailleur, but the chain on the inner cage plate.
    settings :
    PF30 bottom bracket
    BB30 fsa 22,33,44 afterburner crankset
    sram x0 3x10 front derailleur

    thanks for your help...
    That's what I thought.

    How much extra clearance in mm do you need?

    If you can't move the chainrings outboard the other option is to move the front derailleur inwards. Using a metal file you could carefully file down the Specialized direct mount mounting bracket adapter a little (easiest route), or file down the inside of the front derailleur direct mount bracket, which would have the effect of moving the front derailleur cage inwards away from the chain.

    At a push you can also file down the inside of the front derailleur cage itself, which will increase chain clearance too.

    Another alternative is to try a Shimano direct mount FD-M770-E triple front derailleur (designed for a 44 tooth chainring). That could maybe work better. My 2012 Epic uses a Shimano front derailleur with its triple chainset.
    Last edited by WR304; 08-02-2013 at 06:44 AM.

  38. #38
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    S3 direct mount front derailleur installation

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyRuan View Post
    Hi there,

    I have a similar problem.

    Customer brought in a 2012 Spez Stumpjumper comp.

    Its fitted with a Shimano XT m770 66-69deg FD.

    Now my problem is that the FD on the "lowest" setting is still to high. The clearance between the cage and big blade is to much and thus causes problems with the shifting.

    Any advise?
    There's a newer Shimano FD-M780-E direct mount front derailleur which is designed for use with a 42 tooth outer chainring. Fitting one of those would lower the derailleur cage and ought to give better shifting than the Shimano FD-M770-E, which was designed for use with a 44 tooth outer chainring.

    http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/publish/..._mountain.html

    .

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by red riding hood View Post
    yes, it's not the chainring itself catching front derailleur, but the chain on the inner cage plate.
    settings :
    PF30 bottom bracket
    BB30 fsa 22,33,44 afterburner crankset
    sram x0 3x10 front derailleur

    thanks for your help...
    OK, that clarifies things. Now you simply need a spacer on the chainring side and to do that you will likely need to remove a spacer (or use a smaller spacer) on the LHS. Have you disassembled the cranks and identified the spacers you have?

  40. #40
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    on the actual settings, as by bottom bracket frame size is 73mm, i have no spacer at all... and when i try tu put one on the chainring size, bearings are too compressed...
    i think it 's not possible to fit a 3x10 sram s3 front derailleur on my frame :-(

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by red riding hood View Post
    on the actual settings, as by bottom bracket frame size is 73mm, i have no spacer at all... and when i try tu put one on the chainring size, bearings are too compressed...
    i think it 's not possible to fit a 3x10 sram s3 front derailleur on my frame :-(
    I don't understand. You have a PF30 BB, and they always have spacers. What crank are you running???

  42. #42
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    BB30 fsa afterburner crankset

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by red riding hood View Post
    BB30 fsa afterburner crankset
    I can't find the Q for this crank, and after having a quick look at the FSA documentation it appears to have a 2.5mm spacer but only for a 68m shell. So it could well be that the crank doesn't have enough Q for this application. Best to go back and check with FSA specifically.

  44. #44
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    thx for your answer !

  45. #45
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    Sorry for bringing this back but I got a new 2013 frame, it has the Shimano DMD type adapter, but when got my XTR E2 front derailleur from Chain Reaction Cycle, it didn't come the "cresent shape/high-low filler", where can I get them? Thanks very much

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    *one extra detail, a Shimano FD will have ovalized holes, SRAM will be round. There are good diagrams of this in your Specialized _____ FSR manual. Crescent-shaped oval filler should be supplied w/ Shimano FD. Thick washer/sleeve to take up the few millimeter offset on that front FD mounting bolt should have come w/ the frame, probably available from Specialized.

  46. #46
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    hi Phlegm, having same difficulty with sram s3 and s2 front mech.
    sram x9 2 x 10sp low direct mount 42t bottom pull

    getting description that spec 2 has 2 holes offset by 5mm while spec 3 they are flush.
    took front mech off and it is stamped S3 42T - and holes are off set. which contradicts skiwi (and chain reaction cycles description).

    what did you find?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublime_mick View Post
    hi Phlegm, having same difficulty with sram s3 and s2 front mech.
    sram x9 2 x 10sp low direct mount 42t bottom pull

    getting description that spec 2 has 2 holes offset by 5mm while spec 3 they are flush.
    took front mech off and it is stamped S3 42T - and holes are off set. which contradicts skiwi (and chain reaction cycles description).

    what did you find?
    Wow, that was a while ago - previous frame.

    From memory, the holes were offset, but there is a derailleur and spacer combo that I wound up using. I'll see if I can find a good thread on it - someone posted some great pics.

    However, I've moved to 1X10 (and 1X11) and not looked back. Would never run a front derailleur again.

  48. #48
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    Cheers phlegm. I'm 99% sure i require a sram 2 x 10 sp low direct bottom pull S3. Tempted to run. 1 x 10 and ditch front mech. Is that as simple as just removing front mech and 42t chain ring? Any add on required or chain shortening? I'd be running 27t front ring.

  49. #49
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    I would strongly recommend going with a dedicated 1X front ring, such as from Raceface, Wolftooth, Blackspire, etc. They typically have direct mount units that don't need your existing spider, and thus save even more weight. Alternatively, they have various BCD rings that will fit whichever spider you have.

    Once you have that, yes, you can ditch all rings on the front, the derailleur, and front shifter. It's a nice way to lose 1.5 lbs from a bike (which is a lot), and eliminate shifting and mechanical complexity. The chain can likely be shortened a bit too.

    BTW, the lowest I've seen on dedicated front chainrings is 28T. For "typical" riding (which is a bit strange to say, since climbing and leg strength would affect this), I'd say either 30 teeth or 32T on the ring is ideal. PM me if you need any specifics, as I'm absolutely a convert to 1X.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublime_mick View Post
    hi Phlegm, having same difficulty with sram s3 and s2 front mech.
    sram x9 2 x 10sp low direct mount 42t bottom pull

    getting description that spec 2 has 2 holes offset by 5mm while spec 3 they are flush.
    took front mech off and it is stamped S3 42T - and holes are off set. which contradicts skiwi (and chain reaction cycles description).

    what did you find?
    Nothing like having 2 of them to hand. The S2 is flush, and the S3 is offset.

    S2 here S3 direct mount front derailleur installation-img_1605-1-.jpg

    S3 here S3 direct mount front derailleur installation-img_1603-1-.jpg

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