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  1. #1
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    S140TA Settings - HELP

    I have a 2010 S Works Stumpy and am having trouble getting the fork fully dialled. I previously owned an 08 with the S120 fork and had similar troubles but the firmest brain platform on the S140TA is considerably firmer than the S120.
    I want to set up the fork with the best possible small bump compliance along with a good brain platform that eliminates dive under braking and steep descent.
    I have found that the best anti dive is with the brain set 1-2 clicks from firm and it then gets progressively worse, but at this setting the small bump compliance isn't as good. I have tried combinations of less brain and a little more pressure and also more brain with less pressure and have yet to find the sweet spot. The fork isn't bad but I want it sweeter. I know there has to be a slight compromise either way.
    Maybe Epic owners could chime in as the fork platform is very Epic like, I know this having ridden an 09 one many times
    I run the pressures at or within 5psi of recommended for my weight(83kg).
    Please post your findings so that we can all get the fork working at it's best.
    I have only ridden the fork for around 8 hours so things may well improve as things loosen up but 8 hours is a fair amount of riding

  2. #2
    NOJ
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    Negative Spring Setting

    Hi,

    Disclaimer: I'm assuming the 140 internals are like the 120, in that it has an internal
    negative spring adjustment. If not, do not read further...

    What is the setting on the negative spring? It comes at zero from the factory, and when you run full platform, there is little to no small bump compliance. I ran into this on my S120. Changed the negative spring to 4 (not sure of the nomenclature, but a mechanic will know), and it resulted in the not enough platform. Even at full firm. I would try setting 2.
    I bet that is where your 120 is right now.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
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    Hi
    I am aware of the negative spring but fear like you said that at 83kg, a lower negative spring would result in no/little platform.
    What do you mean by "I would try setting 2"
    I am hoping someone who has spent more time on one than me has worked out a good combination of brain/rebound/pressures at stock negative spring setting that works well.

  4. #4
    NOJ
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    The negative spring can be adjusted in increments. The numbers I am referring to are on the cartridge. I believe there are 6 in total. I would go back and check your 120 as a reference. If not, I would still back off from the zero setting. It is way too harsh, especially for a trail fork like the 140.

  5. #5
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    My S120 was at the standard 50 setting. I am aware that at 40, this is really meant for a lighter rider and fear by going to this the firm platform will disappear and get brake dive even on full firm brain. I will get this checked though to see if it was set correctly at factory, which I imagine it was. The fact that the firm on this fork is firmer than that on the S120 means that it may work. Did you lose the firm platform when yours was adjusted?

  6. #6
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    Neg spring setup totally different on an S140. Set it by measuring from the top of the seal head to the bottom of the connector. The pictures below show a 50mm negative spring setting. In the second picture, 'shaft' actually means topout seal head sliding back and forth. As you can see, the AC shaft is in shaft clamps.

    I reckon that this is something you should have done by a dealer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails S140TA Settings - HELP-photo1.jpg  

    S140TA Settings - HELP-photo2.jpg  


  7. #7
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    great thread, thanks for starting it PeteN

    i've also been unable to dial my S140TA forks satisfactorily

    i cannot pedal standing up without annoying fork dive, unless the brain is just off full firm + rebound is only a few clicks out from full slow - at that setting the forks aren't responsive enough for the trails here

    ...i'm 75kg and followed the set up guide to the letter

    is there anything i can do?
    Last edited by culturesponge; 12-05-2009 at 07:09 PM.

  8. #8
    NOJ
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    Interesting

    Thanks for the info BB. I'm almost certain that the 120 cartridge has external markings that allow you to make the change by just aligning the marks on the shaft with to the body. In either case, it does take some effort to dial it in, since the default seems to be
    zero, and that makes for a pretty harsh ride with either fork. Hopefully we can keep this thread going, since I am seriously thinking of running the 140 on my '09 S-Works for the coming season.

  9. #9
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    bump

  10. #10
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    Speed up your rebound, having the fork rebound slow will keep the fork compressed longer. Add a few psi to your fork and take a few out of your shock, this will help keep your front end up and keep the rear balanced with the front, if the rear is firm and the front is soft this will shift your rider weight forward, try riding 4 clicks from full firm brain.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speci- Suspension Tech
    Speed up your rebound, having the fork rebound slow will keep the fork compressed longer. Add a few psi to your fork and take a few out of your shock, this will help keep your front end up and keep the rear balanced with the front, if the rear is firm and the front is soft this will shift your rider weight forward, try riding 4 clicks from full firm brain.
    thanks for the response

    last ride, while pedalling the rebound was continually dialled back till my forks seemed to be least affected by my sprinting out of saddle, which was 3 clicks from full slow - that's far from ideal!

    on the last ride i'd upped the pressure to 100 from 80psi and set the forks brain at full firm before dialling back the rebound

    for tomorrow, the re-bound is now somewhere around halfway, brain is now on 4, pressure is still @100 - hopefully that will be better

    after 1 year with the S120 forks on my last S-Works Stumpjumper (build) that seemed to effortlessly do exactly as i wanted - its suprising how hard it is to set-up the S140TA forks after a month now still not happy.

    ................edit to correct typo............
    Last edited by culturesponge; 12-10-2009 at 04:03 PM.

  12. #12
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    a higher pressure seemed to help alot, proper test today with mid setting rebound - happier now

  13. #13
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    That's good news. What pressure are you running and what brain setting. Minimum fork dive and good small bump compliance?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete N
    That's good news. What pressure are you running and what brain setting. Minimum fork dive and good small bump compliance?
    Just found them on the 2010 Stumpjumper thread, thanks.

  15. #15
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    The light at the end of the tunnel

    Having spent about ten hours on the fork I thought I would share my views in case they help anyone else setting their fork up.

    I been riding suspension forks since í91 and have had or ridden almost every version of the brain rear shock. So whilst this was my first brain fork I was confident I could set it up without too much trouble.

    Turned the brain off(soft) set air pressure for correct sag (75psi, Iím about 80kgs with gear), set rebound to what felt comfortable and went for a small test ride to check my settings and dial in the brain. I was looking for the softest setting that I could happily pedal out of the saddle, ended up with about 3 clicks from full firm.

    First ride, awesome pedalling, zero small bump absorption and no front end grip. Dialled off the brain a bit (7 clicks from full firm). A bit better but still nowhere as good as it should have been. I spent the next four rides messing about with all the settings, less pressure (60psi), less brain, more brain, less rebound, nothing would make this fork work. I was starting to think Iíd brought a lemon. Seriously started thinking about getting a Fox or RS replacement.

    Instead as a last ditch chance, I took a different approach, no brain (full soft), set pressure to sag (80psi) and set rebound super fast. Then use the travel adjust for the climbs to control the movement, at least this way I would have small bump absorption and some front end grip. I believe that the main benefit of suspension is keeping the tyre on the ground giving grip and control, the comfort is a nice bonus. This time it felt like I had a four inch wide tyre with about 5psi, i.e. awesome grip, soaked up everything but really draggy slow pedalling. So I started thinking maybe there is something to this brain fork thing, so I dialled the brain up to 7clicks from full hard. WOW what a massive improvement, still had small bump sensitivity and grip but this time it pedalled brilliantly and when I hit the rough stuff the fork really got going at ate it up. What a brilliant fork, pedals like a short travel xc fork and eats bumps like a monster six inch travel fork and finally didnít feel like I was going to die on every corner, it rails. Climbing in the saddle is perfect, out of the saddle efforts still get it moving a bit but I can live with that, it is a 140mm trail bike after all.

    I think were I went wrong is thinking of the brain as an automatic lockout, which it can be and if you ride somewhere really rocky will lots of hard hits strong enough to open the brain a lot then you could probably get away with a lot firmer brain setting. But I mainly ride bumping hardpack, which I think needs a softer setting. Therefore instead of using the brain to lock the fork out I used it to control the huge super plush 140mm travel thatís on offer and ended up with a great fork.

    In summary I would recommend that you donít try too softer air pressure and keep the rebound nice and fast. They seem to have a huge impact on the way the brain works. Too much rebound kills the brain and not enough air pressure stops the fork from returning to full length, which again seems to hamper the brains performance. I will carry tweaking my settings to see if I can get away with more brain so I can climb out of the saddle with less movement but at least now I have a fork that rides great 99% of the time. With luck this may offer some hope anyone wishing they hadnít wasted their hard earned money.

    Thanks John.

  16. #16
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    volume compensator

    I tried different settings posted on this thread. My main problem is that the fork blows too linear trough the travel. Adding more air weaks the small bump compliance of the fork.

    Now I saw this!

    http://service.specialized.com/asc/C...ins/TB0269.pdf

    Does anyone tried to add or remove such a volume compensator?
    "The E160TA and S140TA both ship with one volume compensator installed—this stock setup is sufficient for most riders."

    I think the description for "Two VCs installed" is wrong! This should be the highest Bottom-out force and not lower than the "no VC" setup. Or am I wrong here?

    I would like to have a higher Bottom-out force.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by maettu
    I think the description for "Two VCs installed" is wrong! This should be the highest Bottom-out force and not lower than the "no VC" setup. Or am I wrong here?

    I would like to have a higher Bottom-out force.
    Good catch. They released an updated version six days later. (attached)
    Attached Files Attached Files

  18. #18
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    Maettu

    This could be the answer for you and definitely worth a try and from my experience there is a noticeable difference. I also posted this in the s works stumpy thread.

    I just had my bike in at Specialized UK for lower leg and air sleeve services. Whilst speaking to the head of suspension he said that he would set up the gulp/negative air setting whilst he was doing the lower leg service to my weight. He explained that this would give the forks the correct action for my weight. Well he did this and set the gulp/negative air to 23mm which is what it should be for my 83kg weight. The forks are now a little slower when compressing and I know some of you found that they could travel through a bit quickly. My setting from factory probably wasn't too far out for me but I guess I'm a little heavier than average, so this has helped. The other internal part that controls spring rate/compression has a wider range so that didn't need changing.
    Very interesting that the internal can be set fairly specifically for your weight and dealers have this information on the Specialized website.
    Next time you are getting them serviced I would recommend you have this done as an average setting of negative air would probably be perfect for very few and unlike the E100 and S120 forks the setting can be more specific. The other strange thing is that the small bump compliance seems unchanged

  19. #19
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete N
    Maettu

    This could be the answer for you and definitely worth a try and from my experience there is a noticeable difference. I also posted this in the s works stumpy thread.

    I just had my bike in at Specialized UK for lower leg and air sleeve services. Whilst speaking to the head of suspension he said that he would set up the gulp/negative air setting whilst he was doing the lower leg service to my weight. He explained that this would give the forks the correct action for my weight. Well he did this and set the gulp/negative air to 23mm which is what it should be for my 83kg weight. The forks are now a little slower when compressing and I know some of you found that they could travel through a bit quickly. My setting from factory probably wasn't too far out for me but I guess I'm a little heavier than average, so this has helped. The other internal part that controls spring rate/compression has a wider range so that didn't need changing.
    Very interesting that the internal can be set fairly specifically for your weight and dealers have this information on the Specialized website.
    Next time you are getting them serviced I would recommend you have this done as an average setting of negative air would probably be perfect for very few and unlike the E100 and S120 forks the setting can be more specific. The other strange thing is that the small bump compliance seems unchanged
    Pete,

    Thanks for your reply. I did some research too. The setting you stated is the negative spring. I think this settings should have more effect at the beginning of the travel.

    From the 50h service guide:
    set negative spring by measuring from the top of the seal head to the bottom of the
    connector. Use the table below to adjust the negative spring.
    Recommended Gulp to Pressure Setting

    Rider Weight (lbs/kg) Pressure (PSI/bar) Gulp (mm)
    80-100 (36-45) 40 73
    100-120 (45-54) 50 63
    120-140 (54-63) 60 53
    140-160 (63-72) 70 43
    160-180 (72-82) 80 33
    180-200 (82-91) 90 23
    200-220 (91-100) 100 18
    220-240 (100-109) 110 18
    240-260 (109-118) 120 18


    For me, the beginning of the fork travel ist ok. What I need is a more progressive fork.

    Again From the 50h service guide:
    Tech Tip: The volume compensators (VC) are used to adjust the ending spring rate in the fork. Adding VCs will increase the force required to bottom out; removing VCs will decrease the force required.

    My next step is to do both:

    - set the negative spring right for my weight
    - add a volume compensator for a higher force required to bottom out

    After that I should immediatly fall in love with this fork

  20. #20
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    You understand it more than me. So how much of the travel at the beginning of the fork does the negative air affect, I am confused. I now know my negative air setting is right for me now but I am on the border between the two settings, and this settings seems better as I explained above. Should a higher negative setting decrease small bump compliance?
    Would the extra VC mean that you would have to run with less main air to achieve full travel as a heavier rider would obviously have more air to compensate for this. I am happy with my fork setting now but find it all quite confusing. Can anyone explain this?

  21. #21
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    I am very happy with the fork, say about 90% happy but now I'm looking for perfection. Next week I am getting a volume compensator put into the fork, which changes the spring rate. Although good, the compression is a little linear as Maettu said so this should give the stronger bottom out force, and more progressive travel as it compresses. Whilst there I'm also going to see if I can get the gulp/negative air set to around 28mm. This would seem to be the ideal setting for my weight as I'm on the border of the 23mm or 33mm setting. I'm not sure if this is possible, but I don't see why not, so hopefully next week I will have the perfect fork.

  22. #22
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    Is that being done by Specialized or another company like TF Tuned?

  23. #23
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    Specialized, it's a more personal fine tuning service that can be done on the s140ta and E160 forks. It makes the forks less general and more weight specific so I'm hoping for near perfection

  24. #24
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    I ordered the volume compensator two weeks ago. As soon I get this part I send you guys an update.

    For me it's the same situation as Pete said. I'm quite happy with the fork but the setup is not perfect.

    The last week I was in Giverola (Spain) for trailriding. The bike felt pretty good. Climbing is awesome and downhill can be better with a more progressive fork. That's what I think.

    By the way, Giverola is worth a visit. Incredible trails!!!
    Pictures from Giverola

    Regards from Switzerland
    mat

  25. #25
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    Well I had the extra volume compensator put in the fork yesterday and the negative air set to 28mm. The 28mm setting is very specific to my weight as both the 23mm and 33mm settings were a little too general.
    The forks feels great, as I had hoped, and am now very happy. The VC of which I now have two fitted has definitely made the fork less linear and more progressive. The difference isn't startling but is noticeable and on today's ride I was still using a similar amount of travel but it was slightly less. When I went down a big root drop the fork was more progressive and I didn't feel like it threw me forward too quickly like it sometimes did before. The initial part of the travel doesn't feel different but the further through the travel it goes it feels like it is pushing back. With regard to the negative air it now feels right, the 23 mm felt better than before but made the force required to open the brain greater. Now at the 28mm it is much better and I get very good small bump compliance from 4 clicks from firm. Today I ran it three clicks from firm which gave good small bump but also very little brake dive/fork dive so I have found the best setting yet.
    I am running it at 85psi and 32 clicks from full slow rebound.
    I guess the further away from average weight you are the bigger differences in performance you can achieve by changing things internally. My differences were subtle but good and has given me a better feeliing fork for sure. I will probably tweak things a little over the coming weeks but the changes were well worth making.

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