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  1. #1
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    Smile Rohloff 500/14 / 2006 xc pro

    I am about to fit a Rohloff Hub won as a random prize, to a 2006 Specilized XC pro disc...

    Some feed back I have being reciving from the dealer is that the hub will have a negative effect on the handling of the bike. Would be interested in talking to a few people about the hub.

    Cheers

    Ruprecht

  2. #2
    Gravity Rides Everything
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    it's a little heavier, and waaay less maintenance. most guys on this forum who use them swear by them. I guess there's only been like 10 failures out of like 10000 hubs sold.

  3. #3
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    Right -- you're taking all the weight of your drivetrain components, cramming them in a blender, hitting the frappe button, and pouring all that weight into your rear hub. So in theory, you're negatively impacting your rear wheel's ability to respond to terrain due to the increased unsprung mass.

    The reality of it though is that you're one lucky sonova***** to have won such a great prize, and I can't think of a single person I know or who has extensively used a Speedhub here on the forums who has complained of any hindered suspension action.

    Personally, I've run a Speedhub on an NRS, an 2005 Iron Horse Hollowpont MkIII and an '03 Hollowpoint, plus on my wife's Marin Mount Vision. Search the forums and you'll find guys with them on other full suspension bikes, as well. I don't think you'll find anything to dislike about mounting one up on an FSR.

    Check out the Speedhub threads in the post I linked to and feel free to post any question -- I love chatting about the Speedhub.

    Edit: The Rohloff rep just last week told me they've hit the 50,000 mark, and is still unaware of any service failures, other than some busted chain tensioners, snapped shifter cables and stripped screws.

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    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 10-04-2005 at 08:23 PM. Reason: added...
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  4. #4
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    Rohloff

    The German manufacturer Nicolai makes the best use out of the Rohloff, fitting in right in the bike's centre of gravity where it won't affect the rolling mass of the bike, and won't cause unnecessary headaches if you destroy a rear wheel.

    I'd love to see the Rolhoff system become more popular, but the cost (about 700 pounds for a disc compatible version) stands in it's way. The potential benefits are huge, but they really need to cut the price and market the product better.

  5. #5
    gnuH
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    Epic

    So you're the lucky guy that won the hub at the Hidden Vale Epic. I had my eyes on that!

    I went across from NZ to do the race and had a blast.

    Good luck with the hub.

    KR

  6. #6
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    Congratulations Mate,

    you are posessing now two very innovative products in the bike industry, namely the FSR full-susser bike and the Rohloff. However I am afraid that these two CANNOT be mated without destroying your frame.
    The reason is: the Horst-link.
    The Rohloff should work great on other full-sussers like unified bikes, but the manufacturer emphasises that it might not work with the rear-suspension designed around the Horst-link. Should also ask the Specialized tech support, very likely they will confirm this.
    I have heard merely about two successful designs with the Horst-link so far, Nicolai and a special limited edition Fusion freerider. Both needed special mechanical design considerations when releasing them for the Speedhub. This is because the Speedhub creates a special torque impact on the frame, which normally does not have to be handled with regular geared rear hubs.
    I am owning Specialized Enduros since 2002, and Rohloff is on my wish-list, however I could not figure out a reasonable solution.
    Cheers

    T.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Bear
    I am afraid that these two CANNOT be mated without destroying your frame.
    The reason is: the Horst-link.
    Eh?

    Nonsense.

    He'll attach a "Speedbone" to the frames disc brake tabs. This will provide anti-torque duties for the hub. (The torque arm, included with the kit, cannot be used due to the Horst link design, but the Speedbone is the workaround.)

    The most current version of the Speedhub Owners Manual I have (pg. 28) specifically addresses the Horst Link -- the need for the use of the Speedbone -- with no special precautions or warnings.

    The hub applies a rotational force against the frame (in this case, against the Speedbone, which is bolted to the outside of the disc brake tabs) -- as much as 98% of pedaling forces is transmitted in the direction opposite wheel rotation in the lowest gear, but tapers off to 0% by gear 11 and then increases to 12% in the direction of wheel rotation by the highest gear.

    The hub is not going to cause the frame to snap in half, nor will it "destroy" ride quality, so I'm not really sure of the angle you're approaching this from.
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  8. #8
    sadly, like the element
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    Interesting, never noticed that the hub itself turned against what it had mounted to the disk tabs. I always just assumed it resisted the rotation of the cog.
    Last edited by Leadghost; 10-06-2005 at 10:13 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadghost
    Interesting, never noticed that the hub itself turned against what it had mounted to the disk tabs. I always just assumed it resisted the rotation of the cog.
    Yeah, there's a whole "immobile" section in the middle of that hub that all the gear clusters spin around, that support the shifting function and the two cables that operate it, and that provide for the hard points to mount up to the frame. In essence, the lower gears "brace against" this section, which in turn imparts a torque in the opposite direction of wheel rotation on whatever attachment is being used for the anti-torque arm (be it the stock arm, the Speedbone, or the Speedhub-specific dropout).

    You can see the guts of the hub being built around this "spine" in this Flash animation:

    http://www.rohloff.de/technik/speedh...hub_strip.html






    This is the reason Rohloff lists strict specifications for the minimum width and drilling of the disc brake tab which the Speedbone is to be mounted to, as the torque of the hub could lead a lesser disc brake tab to failure. But I haven't come across any that don't fit the bill (including the chintzy bolt-on 'ER Plate' my wife's Marin uses), and I'm not aware of any frame failures due to use of the Speedhub or Speedbone.
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  10. #10
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    Smile Question about the hub

    Thanks Speedub Nate all the information you posted. It has answered a lot of questions and douts I have had about the hub, a lot of people have being quite negative towards the whole idea. And say sell it and things like that, but I asked my wife the other day for an answer to that question, would she let me buy one in the future she laughed so hard...

    After only riding again for 14 months it is one nice prize to win... thanks Kiwirider

    Getting to some good questions though a few reviews have mentioned that shifter is a little difficult to get use to what is your experiences?

    I have also read that for dual supp bike need to run a chain guide to stop the chain poping off, and I noticed you are not running one on the pitures post of yuor bike. Which I mite add looks very nice.... envy envy envy

    The last question of the time being any way, any recomendations as to a good rim?

    Cheers Ruprecht

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprecht

    I have also read that for dual supp bike need to run a chain guide to stop the chain poping off, and I noticed you are not running one on the pitures post of yuor bike. Which I mite add looks very nice.... envy envy envy
    Chain tension on a hardtail can be taken care of with horizontal dropouts to move the entire hub assembly fore and aft in order to correctly tension the chain.

    With a full suss, the chain is undergoing constant growth/shrinkage so you need to fit a tensioner to the derailleur mounting point to keep the chain from slipping - much like singlespeeders do.

    Most full suss bikes have slightly different suspension characteristics depending on which chainring is engaged. Obv, it would be prudent to fit a chainring that best suits the pivot point location on the bike, regardless of whether it's a single pivot or a projected pivot (like FSR, VPP etc).

  12. #12
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    http://www.rohloff.de/technik/speedh...hub_strip.html







    after seeing the animation, I can't believe there is not a major drag issue with the speed hub, with all the movement that is going on in the hub. It has to slow you down some.
    your moma's so ugly, one time she looked out of the window and got arrested for mooning

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Eh?

    Nonsense.

    He'll attach a "Speedbone" to the frames disc brake tabs. This will provide anti-torque duties for the hub. (The torque arm, included with the kit, cannot be used due to the Horst link design, but the Speedbone is the workaround.)

    The most current version of the Speedhub Owners Manual I have (pg. 28) specifically addresses the Horst Link -- the need for the use of the Speedbone -- with no special precautions or warnings.

    The hub applies a rotational force against the frame (in this case, against the Speedbone, which is bolted to the outside of the disc brake tabs) -- as much as 98% of pedaling forces is transmitted in the direction opposite wheel rotation in the lowest gear, but tapers off to 0% by gear 11 and then increases to 12% in the direction of wheel rotation by the highest gear.

    The hub is not going to cause the frame to snap in half, nor will it "destroy" ride quality, so I'm not really sure of the angle you're approaching this from.
    I beg your pardon, but who is talking about snapping the frame into half? Let me reiterate my angle of approach in a simpler language that you understand it (sorry I am not native English speaker).
    -Knowing Specialized is very strict on any potential issues around the frame, the builder should ask the Specialized tech support to get their specific consent (this is not a standard spec application), otherwise you will take any frame warranty issues on your shoulder for your advice.
    -It is not enough what Rohloff as a hub manufacturer says. As simple as that. E.g. Nicolai explicitly permits the use of the Rohloff hub, which is fine.
    Last edited by Yellow Bear; 10-07-2005 at 06:54 AM. Reason: grammar

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Bear
    I beg your pardon, but who is talking about snapping the frame into half?
    Let me reiterate my angle of approach in a simpler language that you understand it:
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hass
    after seeing the animation, I can't believe there is not a major drag issue with the speed hub, with all the movement that is going on in the hub. It has to slow you down some.
    I can't believe it either. Seriously, Jack, try one next time you get the chance. On average you loose approximately 1% efficiency in the 7 lowest gears, and the 7 tallest gears are a wash -- on par with a clean, good condition derailleur setup.

    Throw some mud or dirt, wear & tear at both drivetrains and the Speedhub shines.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprecht
    ...And say sell it and things like that, but I asked my wife the other day for an answer to that question, would she let me buy one in the future she laughed so hard...
    Well, that's true, you could do a lot with the cash that hub would fetch on eBay.

    Personally, I hesitated a good two years between seeing (and wanting) my first Speedhub, and actually buying one. Even then, I took a lot of time to shop around for a the best deal I could find, which at the time was importing from GroundZero in New Zealand.

    Once I owned #1 and had some miles on it, I quickly realized its value and a year later bought hub #2 as part of a complete bike, much to my wife's chagrin.

    My fascination with the technology didn't rub off on my wife, but then I secretly bought Speedhub #3 -- used -- and installed it on her new bike I was secretly building up. Incredulous at first, she quickly warmed up to the Speedhub, and has become a very knowledgable Rohloff convert. In fact, she gets more questions out on the trail than I do, and she speaks of the pros and cons of the hub very matter-of-factly. She has no desire to go back to derailleurs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprecht
    Getting to some good questions though a few reviews have mentioned that shifter is a little difficult to get use to what is your experiences?
    Yes. The shifting action is very dependant on proper cable setup, and it initially took me a few attempts to find what cable routing works and what doesn't. The straighter the run, the larger the bend radius, the better.

    Rohloff's housing, or more specifically their removable inner liner, is crimp-prone garbage and belongs in the trash can. I use standard brake cable housing with excellent results.

    Shifting the Speedhub is somewhat different than twist-shifting a derailleur drivetrain. Derailleurs depend on pedaling action the "carry through" the chain to the next cog or ring, and takes anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2+ a crank revolution to complete.

    In comparison, the Speedhub shifts nearly instantly, regardless of how fast or how slow or how backwards or how not you're pedaling. The shift meets resistance if you have a moderate pedal load (i.e. climbing with a low cadence), and is best initiated at the very top of the pedal stroke. You may find that you have to "burp" your pedal stroke under particularly hard efforts to allow the shift, but this is hardly disruptive to your spin once you get a feel for it -- it becomes second nature.

    Additionally, the hub needs some miles to break in, and shifting action continues to improve through use.

    Search recent Speedhub posts by MTBR member Latte Hardtail -- he recently built up a Rohloff-equipped Niner and initially expressed some doubts about the hub, but has really changed his tune as he worked out some installation issues and put some miles on the hub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprecht
    I have also read that for dual supp bike need to run a chain guide to stop the chain poping off, and I noticed you are not running one...
    I didn't need one on my NRS (a **ahem** light-weight modified Horst link frame, BTW), and got away without one on my '03 Hollowpoint for a few weeks -- then out of nowhere began dropping my chain. So far, so good on the MkIII, and my wife's Mount Vision has had no chaindrop issues in the 2.5 years she's been riding that bike.

    And as an altervative to the chainguide, you can run a bash ring and a Jump Stop, or some other such setup.

    It's best to select a non-ramped, non-profiled, singlespeed-specific chainring to help retain the chain. Surly, Salsa and Blackspire are all brands that I've used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruprecht
    The last question of the time being any way, any recomendations as to a good rim?
    Choose whatever rim you would normally use -- the Speedhub is great in that it pulls on every spoke hole with completely even tension, which means no spike in spoke tension on the drive side due to a lack of dishing.

    In fact, for anyone who has never built a wheel before, the Speedhub is a great foundation to start on. Very forgiving of loose spoke tension, and simple to true and center.
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  17. #17
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    In the box

    When I recived the hub I had a look and found the speed bone, chain tensioner and al the normal stuff was there except the chain guide, so I think I wll ride for a few weeks and see how i manage with out it.

    After winning the hub a need existed for a new bike, managed to barter for the cost of the new FSR. saves outlaying the cash.

    The Specialized tech dude, has given me the asurance the frame wanty wont be voided if i fit the hub. his only issue is the weight.... and little experience is the only problem there as far as i can tell.


    Cheers for the feed back speedub nate, and where do you ride mostly? would be good to catch up some time in the future?


    Ruprecht

  18. #18
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    If they're including the Speedbone in the box now, that's great news and definitely a step in the right direction. Previously I had to sign a waiver before I could purchase a Speedbone from Rohloff, their fear being the disc brake tabs might be under-built for the load. However, the Speedbone has turned out to be such a clean solution to the torque arm ugliness, many OEM's are using it in lieu of a "Speedhub-specific dropout", as found on the recently introduced full-suspension Van Dessel Buzz Bomb (another Horst link bike, I might add).

    One nice thing about installing the Speedhub on a brand new bike is that you can remove the drivetrain -- shifters, derailleurs, chainrings, cassette, rear wheel, even the crank if you have another -- and sell it all "as new" on eBay, defraying the cost of the project. And come a couple years down the road, should you buy another new bike, you can again sell off the drivetrain for some more cash back. An example of the Speedhub paying dividends.

    I live and ride in the San Franciso area. Drop me a line any time. And please keep us updated on the progress of your build. Pictures are always bonus.
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