• 01-01-2013
    jhtopilko
    To me, it's the dead, absorbing feel, on hits. And the stiff pedaling as well. I test rode over the same rooted sections some other bikes, and the carbon stood out. The other three had the feel of my old super V.
    I test rode a 2013 tallboy ltc al, epic comp, and stumpjumper comp.
  • 01-01-2013
    Knight511
    Carbon does offer a bit of dampening that is hard to explain. It is sort of like steel. Aluminum is a very rigid metal that doesn't give much in a forgiving nature... and carbon (not cheap Chinese type carbon) is usually laid up to be compliant in the direction of a hit. My old ride was a carbon softtail and even with the rear shock aired WAY up, the bike always felt "alive" and I never felt beat up by riding it.

    As for stiffness, I am not so sold on the carbon bike being much more laterally stiffer than the aluminum given the redesign of the aluminum chassis. Now, if Specialized takes the simplified linkage and swing arm of the '13 aluminum chassis and puts it on the carbon, then you will be talking about a good difference once again. (And I won't mention that I am hoping they do this so I can have shock upgrade options if my Monarch doesn't keep me happy).

    I am not completely sold on the dampening effects on a carbon bike vs aluminum when we are talking about full suspension since the suspension provides more than the carbon ever will. Much of the benefit of carbon with a FS is in the lighter material. Prior to 2013, there was something like a 2 pound difference between carbon and aluminum versions of the Camber.... now that has dropped to 0.5lb with the switch to M5 aluminum and the simplified swing arm.

    I think much of the "feel" difference between the FSR, Camber carbon and Camber aluminum come more down to the swing arm and linkage designs than the material itself. All three bikes have very different designs and it makes a HUGE difference in ride. The FSR was like a pogo stick to me with WAY too "plush" of a back end for what I like. The Camber aluminum was less plush, but it felt solid and didn't feel like there was a rear end to the bike. The Camber carbon was even less plush and would have been a perfect step over to FS for me from my softtail, but when compared apples-to-apples to the aluminum model, there was no way to justify the cost difference.

    That is my person take on the bikes and nothing more. It is my opinion and should be taken as such. It is hard to explain the differences between all the bikes without riding them back-to-back for yourself. On my day of test riding I rode the Camber comp carbon, Camber comp aluminum, Stumpy FSR compaluminum, Epic comp aluminum, Trek Superfly100 Elite and Trek Rumblefish Elite. The ONLY reason I didn't buy the carbon Camber was because of the $1K and that I thought $1K was better spent on a few select upgrades. I am a clydesdale rider, so thinks like good/strong wheels mean a lot to me.
  • 01-01-2013
    Ksousa81
    Thank you for your time you took discribing your take on the alu vs carbon
    I liked how u described the carbon camber being a bit stiffer. I'm worried that going from a hardtail that I will dislike the "plushness" ...
    I'm also a Clyde and have been smashing on my wheels pretty wheel getting trued every 2 or 3 rides
    Got some crossmax for the new bike to solve this problem
  • 01-01-2013
    Mr.Quint
    Most of it
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by darKnight57 View Post
    Got a base 2013 camber. Any suggestions on what I should swap out first?

    Ride it until you notice a difference, but if you see my post above, I've switched out almost everything. Things that made the most difference?

    Brakes
    Wheels
    Saddle
    Shifters

    Hell, it all made a difference. But was any of it necessary? Who can say?
  • 01-01-2013
    Ksousa81
    I would say wheels and fork
  • 01-01-2013
    Mr.Quint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ksousa81 View Post
    I would say wheels and fork

    Yeah, I forgot that the 2013 base Camber comes with a not great fork. My base 2012 came with a Recon Gold, which, while not a great fork, isn't the worst thing out there. I removed the spacer, and got it up to 120mm, which I like a lot more than 100.

    Again, ride and decide.
  • 01-01-2013
    jhtopilko
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Carbon does offer a bit of dampening that is hard to explain. It is sort of like steel. Aluminum is a very rigid metal that doesn't give much in a forgiving nature... and carbon (not cheap Chinese type carbon) is usually laid up to be compliant in the direction of a hit. My old ride was a carbon softtail and even with the rear shock aired WAY up, the bike always felt "alive" and I never felt beat up by riding it.

    As for stiffness, I am not so sold on the carbon bike being much more laterally stiffer than the aluminum given the redesign of the aluminum chassis. Now, if Specialized takes the simplified linkage and swing arm of the '13 aluminum chassis and puts it on the carbon, then you will be talking about a good difference once again. (And I won't mention that I am hoping they do this so I can have shock upgrade options if my Monarch doesn't keep me happy).

    I am not completely sold on the dampening effects on a carbon bike vs aluminum when we are talking about full suspension since the suspension provides more than the carbon ever will. Much of the benefit of carbon with a FS is in the lighter material. Prior to 2013, there was something like a 2 pound difference between carbon and aluminum versions of the Camber.... now that has dropped to 0.5lb with the switch to M5 aluminum and the simplified swing arm.

    I think much of the "feel" difference between the FSR, Camber carbon and Camber aluminum come more down to the swing arm and linkage designs than the material itself. All three bikes have very different designs and it makes a HUGE difference in ride. The FSR was like a pogo stick to me with WAY too "plush" of a back end for what I like. The Camber aluminum was less plush, but it felt solid and didn't feel like there was a rear end to the bike. The Camber carbon was even less plush and would have been a perfect step over to FS for me from my softtail, but when compared apples-to-apples to the aluminum model, there was no way to justify the cost difference.

    That is my person take on the bikes and nothing more. It is my opinion and should be taken as such. It is hard to explain the differences between all the bikes without riding them back-to-back for yourself. On my day of test riding I rode the Camber comp carbon, Camber comp aluminum, Stumpy FSR compaluminum, Epic comp aluminum, Trek Superfly100 Elite and Trek Rumblefish Elite. The ONLY reason I didn't buy the carbon Camber was because of the $1K and that I thought $1K was better spent on a few select upgrades. I am a clydesdale rider, so thinks like good/strong wheels mean a lot to me.

    Makes sense, I didn't have the opportunity to test aluminum camber at all. All gone when I started to look. I am light enough and didn't brake anything on my last bike. The stock wheels are my only concern. I contemplated the price difference after I paid for the bike.
  • 01-01-2013
    Knight511
    My LBS has an aluminum comp model "sneak" in earlier than anyone else.... so much of a sneak that when I asked when they would get them in, I was told "late December" only to find they had one on the shelf no one really knew about. All of my testing was done on large frames because no one stocks XL.... after all the fussing around, we order an XL for me to buy.
  • 01-01-2013
    LukeSPOOK
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    My LBS has an aluminum comp model "sneak" in earlier than anyone else.... so much of a sneak that when I asked when they would get them in, I was told "late December" only to find they had one on the shelf no one really knew about. All of my testing was done on large frames because no one stocks XL.... after all the fussing around, we order an XL for me to buy.

    Thanks for your earlier post / review of your purchase of 2013 Alu Camber.
    It reassured me as have ordered same bike for similar reasons.
    Should arrive at my LBS in couple of weeks here in Australia.
    :thumbsup:
  • 01-02-2013
    abelfonseca
    1 Attachment(s)
    Riding buddy with his brand new camber 29 and my not so new camber comp.
  • 01-02-2013
    a Villain
    I have just ordered my Camber 29 Alu bike. It's in XL and due to arrive by end of the month. Looking forward to it very much.
  • 01-03-2013
    tobes_uk
    Hi all, had a quick search but can't seem to find this question in this thread. I have found a bargain priced 2012 Camber Comp Carbon 29er that I'm thinking of buying. This might be a dumb question, but the spec says "internal Command Post routing" - does this mean I could fit a Reverb Stealth so I wouldn't get any cable flapping around or have they somehow made it so you can only use the internal routing for a Command Post? Thanks!
  • 01-03-2013
    Mr.Quint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tobes_uk View Post
    Hi all, had a quick search but can't seem to find this question in this thread. I have found a bargain priced 2012 Camber Comp Carbon 29er that I'm thinking of buying. This might be a dumb question, but the spec says "internal Command Post routing" - does this mean I could fit a Reverb Stealth so I wouldn't get any cable flapping around or have they somehow made it so you can only use the internal routing for a Command Post? Thanks!

    There's basically a hole in the back of the seat post, and plastic mounts up the left side of the top tube.
  • 01-03-2013
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr.Quint View Post
    There's basically a hole in the back of the seat post, and plastic mounts up the left side of the top tube.

    Internal command post routing means there is a hole on the right side of the top tube that the cable enters the fram and then it comes out in a rectangle hole above the rear shock to make a smoother looking cable path. It won't really work for a stealth post.

    The hole in the back of the seat post is the minimum insert hole for the seat post... if you can't see the post in the hole, you don't have enough post in the tube.

    Zoom in on the picture of the Camber Carbon in the link and you will see the hole in the top tube and the cable coming out above the shock...

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    2012 is no different.
  • 01-03-2013
    jhtopilko
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Internal command post routing means there is a hole on the right side of the top tube that the cable enters the fram and then it comes out in a rectangle hole above the rear shock to make a smoother looking cable path. It won't really work for a stealth post.

    The hole in the back of the seat post is the minimum insert hole for the seat post... if you can't see the post in the hole, you don't have enough post in the tube.

    Zoom in on the picture of the Camber Carbon in the link and you will see the hole in the top tube and the cable coming out above the shock...

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    2012 is no different.

    Correct, verified by the bike behind my chair. If I have regular rides with other dropper post riders I will likely get one, to keep the flow of the ride.
  • 01-04-2013
    Mr.Quint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Internal command post routing means there is a hole on the right side of the top tube that the cable enters the fram and then it comes out in a rectangle hole above the rear shock to make a smoother looking cable path. It won't really work for a stealth post.

    The hole in the back of the seat post is the minimum insert hole for the seat post... if you can't see the post in the hole, you don't have enough post in the tube.

    Zoom in on the picture of the Camber Carbon in the link and you will see the hole in the top tube and the cable coming out above the shock...

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    2012 is no different.

    Well look at that. Thanks for the learnin'.
  • 01-04-2013
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr.Quint View Post
    Well look at that. Thanks for the learnin'.

    I only knew because one day admiring my bike hanging in my living room (trails are still closed), I asked myself about that hole in the seat post.... and wondered how the hell one would route from the front hole to that hole... answered the question by looking at the picture I linked to (and reading a sticker included with my manual that was suppose to be under the hole in the seat post).

    I am tired of looking at this bike.... hoping the trails that are open will stay open another 48 hours so I can get my ass out of this house!
  • 01-04-2013
    GR1822
    When I bought my used 12 camber 29er I thought that hole was where a clamp for the dropper post cabling went. When I took off one of the other clamps and saw it looked different I totally forgot about the hole. Neat to know what it's for!
  • 01-04-2013
    GR1822
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ksousa81 View Post
    i bought mavic crossmax. smax. smax st 29 wheels 2 weeks ago they sit in the closet waiting for a bike.
    im thinking the 2013 camber comp or comp carbon

    im thinking that the fox rear shock is a better option im coming from a hardtail so i know nothing about rear suspension i weight 245lbs
    would finish off the bike off with carbon bar, lightweight stem and seatpost

    i live in new england and feel that coming off of a hardtail that the 110mm travel would be the right setup for me

    your thoughts?

    Why spend the $ on the lightweight carbon bar/stem/seatpost? If you're looking to save weight, drop a few lbs.
    Before you get mad; I weight more than you. :)
    I just think there is a better way to spend your money than shaving a few ounces from the bike. If you have $ to burn, i'd upgrade your brakes, derailleur or shifters for better ones.
  • 01-04-2013
    googoodang
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hoogie View Post
    my camber in the redwoods, rotorua, new zealand ... finished work at lunctime and snuck into the forest ... does that mean i am getting paid for this???

    the redwoods/whakarewarewa: world class trails 10mins gentle ride from our accomodation ... ride 3.5hrs and not ride the same trail twice, then back to our motel and soak in the thermally heated pool ... can it get any better than this??? :thumbsup:

    camber pro 29, absolutely stock except for the bar ends ...

    Sweet track and nice ride!
  • 01-05-2013
    Ksousa81
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GR1822 View Post
    Why spend the $ on the lightweight carbon bar/stem/seatpost? If you're looking to save weight, drop a few lbs.
    Before you get mad; I weight more than you. :)
    I just think there is a better way to spend your money than shaving a few ounces from the bike. If you have $ to burn, i'd upgrade your brakes, derailleur or shifters for better ones.

    It Defiantly couldn't hurt to shed a few more pounds!
    March 2010(the day i bought my first bike) i weight 301lbs and a smoker(dropped the habit and some weight)

    Im not really looking to take weight off my bike more customize to my liking. Im between a medium and a large so might need to tinker with those three to make a medium comfy. plus a pretty carbon bike needs pretty carbon accessories :smilewinkgrin:
    Also 720mm handlebars feel way to wide for me and seem to get hung up on everything i ride by. 600mm flatbar more my style.

    If you were replacing brakes and derailleur and shifters what would you get?
    just curious.
  • 01-05-2013
    Knight511
    Be careful with carbon cockpits... most have weight limits and you are still close to those limits. It would suck to have a bar snap and take carbon shrapnel into your arm/face/body.

    That being said... great job on the weight loss and life changes!
  • 01-05-2013
    Mr.Quint
    Shimano brakes.
  • 01-05-2013
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ksousa81 View Post
    If you were replacing brakes and derailleur and shifters what would you get? just curious.

    For me, I did replace the shifters. I put SRAM X0 Grip Shift on. When I change the brakes, I will order a set of Shimano XT trekking levers from Europe and use the XT brakes with finned pads.

    Why trekking levers? They are longer and should give much better hand position around the Gripshift.

    Shifters are a very personal thing to choose. You either like thumbs or grip shift. If you like thumbs, you either like Shimano or SRAM. For me, I liked Shimano thumbs but my hands always hurt after a ride, so I switched back to grip shift and it all went away.
  • 01-05-2013
    GR1822
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ksousa81 View Post
    It Defiantly couldn't hurt to shed a few more pounds!
    March 2010(the day i bought my first bike) i weight 301lbs and a smoker(dropped the habit and some weight)

    Im not really looking to take weight off my bike more customize to my liking. Im between a medium and a large so might need to tinker with those three to make a medium comfy. plus a pretty carbon bike needs pretty carbon accessories :smilewinkgrin:
    Also 720mm handlebars feel way to wide for me and seem to get hung up on everything i ride by. 600mm flatbar more my style.

    If you were replacing brakes and derailleur and shifters what would you get?
    just curious.

    Nice job on shedding the pounds!
    I never thought about just 'pimping the bike' out with the carbon stuff.
    As far as what brakes/ gearing components I don't know what came stock on your bike. I personally like shimano shifters with the thumbnail and trigger combo. I'm not a fan of grip shifters or how sram uses the thumbnail for both up and down shifting. Just a personal preference though. As far as brakes: both of my bikes came with avid and I have no complaint , but I've heard other people who don'tllike them. I've never heard bad stuff about shimano brakes.
    I'd also take into consideration what someone else said about the carbon cockpit items. I don't know who aggressive you ride or how chunky New England is, but I wouldn't use themhhere in AZ at your weight.