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Thread: Mike Sinyard

  1. #1
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    Mike Sinyard

    Your company has become psychotic. Please wake up and leave Epic Designs Alaska to their business.

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    +1 Hearing about this lawsuit makes me ashamed that I ride a Specialized. I guess now if I use the word "Epic" other than describing your bike, I can be sued? Please cease and desist on this completely brainless lawsuit and let the man carry on with his business. A business that has nothing to do with your market share. Pretty damn lame Mike!

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    Good thing you made this thread. I'm sure once they read this they will drop the lawsuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    Good thing you made this thread. I'm sure once they read this they will drop the lawsuit.
    I have a voice; I'm using it. I don't care whether or not I have your approval.

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    Pretty tough words there champ.

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    If you feel so strongly about it why not contact specialized? just a thought. (maybe you did already)

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    SteveUK: Perhaps you should change the title so it's more descriptive. Regardless, I'm with you.

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    Because this isn't par for the course for so many other bike companies... or companies in general?

    It's amusing how so many people villainize big bike brands, especially Specialized, for this sort of action... when all the boutique brands that people hold so dear would probably do the exact same thing in this type of situation if they had the resources.

    I'm not saying I approve, but this is just the way things go. Businesses will be businesses. Many of them are hyper-sensitive about this sorta thing. Anything that can be construed as an infringement on patents, products or trademarks will be construed as such by the legal teams of large companies.

    Also, this person who started Epic Designs did so in 2007, well after the Epic line of bikes was introduced. So who knows? Maybe he IS trying to ride on the coattails of Specialized.

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    Row Row Fight The Powah

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    Right, how about this line of thinking...

    It's 2007 and I want to start up a business selling bike stuff. Let's call it Epic. Oh wait, one of the biggest bike companies in the world has a trademark on Epic for one of their bike models. Oh geez, I guess we will just proceed and if we get called out on it we will take some kind of David and Golliath stance.

    I gotta go with CasteelG on this one. However we can all see the impact is likely small, but in this country you have to protect your trademarks. If you own a business or have had to clear trademarks you know what I'm talking about.

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    Because this isn't par for the course for so many other bike companies... or companies in general?
    You're an apologist, I perceive.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


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    Quote Originally Posted by CasteelG
    Because this isn't par for the course for so many other bike companies... or companies in general?

    It's amusing how so many people villainize big bike brands, especially Specialized, for this sort of action... when all the boutique brands that people hold so dear would probably do the exact same thing in this type of situation if they had the resources.

    I'm not saying I approve, but this is just the way things go. Businesses will be businesses. Many of them are hyper-sensitive about this sorta thing. Anything that can be construed as an infringement on patents, products or trademarks will be construed as such by the legal teams of large companies.

    Also, this person who started Epic Designs did so in 2007, well after the Epic line of bikes was introduced. So who knows? Maybe he IS trying to ride on the coattails of Specialized.
    I agree. This thread is just silly. Move on.

  13. #13
    Ben-Jammin
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    You're an apologist, I perceive.
    Ah. Straw man. My favorite informal fallacy. Saying I'm an apologist neither helps your voice be heard or disproves what I stated.

    I'm merely playing devil's advocate.

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    Even though i hate all the political stuff and really i am just on the forum because i love to ride bikes, i would like to think there is more to this than all of us know. A quick google search got me these sites:

    http://www.epic.com/
    Integrated software company

    http://www.epicgames.com/
    gaming company

    http://epic.org/
    Electronic Privacy Information Center

    http://www.health.state.ny.us/health_care/epic/
    Elderly Pharmaceutical Insurance Coverage

    http://www.epicrecords.com/

    www.epickayaks.com

    www.epicsol.org

    www.epicauthors.com

    http://www.epicforchildren.org/

    http://www.epicforchildren.org/

    www.epicroasthousesf.com/

    www.epicaircraft.com
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    Not really sure how Specialized is so terrible. I can't believe I'm still in this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by jut8
    Even though i hate all the political stuff and really i am just on the forum because i love to ride bikes, i would like to think there is more to this than all of us know. A quick google search got me these sites:

    http://www.epic.com/
    Integrated software company

    http://www.epicgames.com/
    gaming company

    http://epic.org/
    Electronic Privacy Information Center

    http://www.health.state.ny.us/health_care/epic/
    Elderly Pharmaceutical Insurance Coverage

    http://www.epicrecords.com/

    www.epickayaks.com

    www.epicsol.org

    www.epicauthors.com

    http://www.epicforchildren.org/

    http://www.epicforchildren.org/

    www.epicroasthousesf.com/

    www.epicaircraft.com
    I guess the difference is they are not in the same industry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CasteelG
    Saying I'm an apologist neither helps your voice be heard or disproves what I stated.
    I didn't say that it would.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    I didn't say that it would.
    Why are you so "Stand offish" You made this thread and when someone disagree's with you, you get all pissy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    I have a voice; I'm using it. I don't care whether or not I have your approval.
    Yes...you do have a voice...now, if you just had a brain to go with it, Scarecrow.

  20. #20
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    Just protecting their brand....

    I see no problem with it.

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    Sorry, but you folks who are apologizing for this behavior are flat out wrong. Oh, its par for the course, they are protecting their brand. Thats just the way it is. Lame. Protecting there brand? How in the hell am I going to mistake a bike bag with a XC race bike? I could see if this guy was manufacturing bikes with the name Epic, but he makes bags. Very frivolous if you ask me and makes Specialized look like sh*t because of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkslide18
    Sorry, but you folks who are apologizing for this behavior are flat out wrong. Oh, its par for the course, they are protecting their brand. Thats just the way it is. Lame. Protecting there brand? How in the hell am I going to mistake a bike bag with a XC race bike? I could see if this guy was manufacturing bikes with the name Epic, but he makes bags. Very frivolous if you ask me and makes Specialized look like sh*t because of it.
    I bet if you had a company and someone in the same industry named their product after a very popular product you had, you would be singing a different tune.

    You guy's bashing Spec for doing this is immature. LIke what's been said before, at the end of the day it's a business and they feel they need to protect their brand name.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkslide18
    Sorry, but you folks who are apologizing for this behavior are flat out wrong. Oh, its par for the course, they are protecting their brand. Thats just the way it is. Lame. Protecting there brand? How in the hell am I going to mistake a bike bag with a XC race bike? I could see if this guy was manufacturing bikes with the name Epic, but he makes bags. Very frivolous if you ask me and makes Specialized look like sh*t because of it.
    +1.

    Everyone stood up for Rock Art brewery when Monster went after them, why is everyone siding with Specialized now?

    A stupid frivolous lawsuit. Like a bag design company could actually capitalize on the name of a race bike to make profit.
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    Why do I even care?

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    I think a big point is being missed:

    Specialized isn't suing the dude to put him out of business and bankrupt him, they just want the name changed because it is the same as a line of bikes they have had for almost 10 yrs.

    Is it really that big a deal to change the name of a company that has only been in existence for a few years?

    How about Sick Designs, or Bad Ass Bags?

    Morally correct or not, the law is on the side of Specialized quite simply. If you don't like it, ask mainland China if you can move on in. They don't give a crap about copy rights or trademarks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    I bet if you had a company and someone in the same industry named their product after a very popular product you had, you would be singing a different tune.

    You guy's bashing Spec for doing this is immature. LIke what's been said before, at the end of the day it's a business and they feel they need to protect their brand name.
    Protect their brand name against a bag? Against a small company that doesn't even compete with Specialized in the market? Are you kidding me? I'm a Specialized rider, so dont think I'm bashing Spec, for the sake of bashing. Doesn't this sound like an 800 pound Gorilla? Even, ethics aside, dont you think this is bad for PR? And , if I was in the same industry, and someone made a product that did not directly interfere with the sale of my product, due to confusion I would not see a point in a lawsuit. So what your saying, is that a person who is looking to buy an Epic is going to be persuaded to buy a bag of the same name instead? Again, if this company was making bikes called Epic, I would see the point, but suing a company for making a bag? Cm on people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkslide18
    Protect their brand name against a bag? Against a small company that doesn't even compete with Specialized in the market? Are you kidding me? I'm a Specialized rider, so dont think I'm bashing Spec, for the sake of bashing. Doesn't this sound like an 800 pound Gorilla? Even, ethics aside, dont you think this is bad for PR? And , if I was in the same industry, and someone made a product that did not directly interfere with the sale of my product, due to confusion I would not see a point in a lawsuit. So what your saying, is that a person who is looking to buy an Epic is going to be persuaded to buy a bag of the same name instead? Again, if this company was making bikes called Epic, I would see the point, but suing a company for making a bag? Cm on people.
    Spec makes bags: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...enuItemId=9311


    Doesn't call any of them Epic but they are making the same products.

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    You guys are completely missing the point.

    It has nothing to do with the bike. Epic is trademarked by Spesh for use in this industry so they should be able to use it how they see fit. What if Spesh wanted to launch their own line of accessories called "Epic" that contained a line of bags?

    The point is that who knows how Spesh is/was planning on capitalizing on the popularity or brand association of one of THEIR trademarks. Look at S-Works... bikes, tires, components, helmets, etc etc.
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    Good grief... how many threads do we need on this topic?

    While Spec could garner some goodwill by reaching some agreement with this guy (some very nominal fee or something that would allow them to demonstrate they actively protect their trademarks but not hammer him), they don't have to and, in this case, are in the right since Epic Designs is a bike specific company that could draw inference to the Specialized Epic.

    Let it go.

    (Mods - at least combine the two threads into one?)
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    How would a Company Called Epic designs who manufactures bike bags draw inference to the Specialized Epic? The problem I see with most of the responses in support of Spec are for the most part legal speak. How about, legalities aside, it is a completely dick move by Spec? How on earth is a company called Epic designs going to infringe on Specialized market share? I had never even heard of them prior to this lawsuit.

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    Your problem is you are thinking with your heart and not listening.

    WHAT IF Specialized was planning on launching an EPIC line of accessories in the future?

    Would be hard to do with EPIC all over mountain bike bags already.

    What do you think will happen if you start a new computer LCD company and call it Windows. What do you think will happen? Why do you think that will happen? How is that any different than what is going on here?

    Or if you are already inclined to hate Microsoft.... what do you think will happen if you start a new company called iTunes that makes harmonicas? Why do you think that will happen? How is that any different?
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    Have to say this, this is a BIG factor why many around the Globe thinks many from the US of A are nutz, just so legal trigger happy. Sue for this, sue for that, it doesnt make for a good look.....

    Look at it from a moral view point! Spec you look like tools.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Have to say this, this is a BIG factor why many around the Globe thinks many from the US of A are nutz, just so legal trigger happy. Sue for this, sue for that, it doesnt make for a good look.....

    Look at it from a moral view point! Spec you look like tools.....
    +1!

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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

    From what I understand, Specialized is legally obligated to protect their trademarks. If they fail to do so in even minor cases they set a precedent and lose the right to shut down other, more obvious infringements down the road.

    Imagine if Trek made bags named "Epic"? How would people react? Differently, I'm guessing. If Specialized fails to protect its trademarks now, it opens up doors like that.

    Now, as somebody else pointed out, the question of whether a company should even be able to trademark a common word like "Epic" is an entirely different matter.

  35. #35
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    Specialized is not a bike company, it's a law firm and a marketing company...

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  36. #36
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    Ask the poor bastard who named his company MountainBike how he feels about protecting a trademark.

    edit:
    I realized some backstory might be useful.
    http://sonic.net/~ckelly/Seekay/mtbikes_company.htm

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    This guy might not be a lawyer, but he right on point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaumaturge
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

    From what I understand, Specialized is legally obligated to protect their trademarks. If they fail to do so in even minor cases they set a precedent and lose the right to shut down other, more obvious infringements down the road.

    Imagine if Trek made bags named "Epic"? How would people react? Differently, I'm guessing. If Specialized fails to protect its trademarks now, it opens up doors like that.

    Now, as somebody else pointed out, the question of whether a company should even be able to trademark a common word like "Epic" is an entirely different matter.
    Last edited by chunder down under; 12-31-2009 at 05:42 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkley
    +1.

    Everyone stood up for Rock Art brewery when Monster went after them, why is everyone siding with Specialized now?...
    Because this thread is in the Spesh forum. They be gettin' no love in the NorCal version of this thread...(thanks to which we also now know that people in Alaska don't ride Specialized bikes either...because they are not Epic enough... ).

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    I totally understand protecting your brand. But to me, "epic" refers to a type of ride. One that lasts all day, that you have to pack a lunch for, and then some. A ride that takes you somewhere way far away from civilization. Not just a model of bicycle made by Specialized. Any more than XC refers to the Specialized FSR XC. Will they now sue everybody in the bike industry that uses "XC" ?? Theres my two pennies worth.

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    It's their duty to protect the brand. I doubt it was Sinyard's idea, but the Legal team's, who's job it is to protect the brand from infringement from entities large or small. Dude probably should have thought a little harder on whether it was a good idea to name his company "Epic". I'm sure he knew that Specialized already had some product branded as such.

  41. #41
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    http://www.epicstealthcam.com/HTML/epic_wide_kit.html

    Edit: I should add that I love Spech bikes and that the Epic is (imho) the greatest xc bike there is!

    The problem I see is that the word "epic" belongs to the English language, and therefor to all of us. As such it should be free to be used by anyone who wants to. If a company doesn't want their product confused w/ something else, don't use a word that belongs to everyone and make up your own word. But then again, I know nothing about law or business... I just ride and enjoy my Epic on my epic rides....
    Last edited by bellullabob; 12-31-2009 at 08:55 AM.
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  42. #42
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    Oh feck!! The confusion in my BRAIN!! Is that a bike or a camera?

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhuffman
    Will they now sue everybody in the bike industry that uses "XC" ?? Theres my two pennies worth.
    No, because they didn't trademark it.

    Keep the change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 417markg
    Spec makes bags: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...enuItemId=9311


    Doesn't call any of them Epic but they are making the same products.

    No, not the same at all.



    If one was to go down a list of trademarked words and phrases... one wouldn't be left with much language left to name a company.

  45. #45
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    There are tons. But if you are going to make bike products don't pick a word trademarked by one of the biggest manufactures of bikes in the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyxcom
    There are tons. But if you are going to make bike products don't pick a word trademarked by one of the biggest manufactures of bikes in the world.
    they have their work cut out for them:

    Epic:



    Epic:



    Epic:

    epicbike and sport!
    ha! they are a S concept dealer!

    Epic:
    Epic Bicycles!

    Another S dealer!

    Epic:
    Epic Mountain Bike dot Com


    Epic Ride!
    At Whistler!


    Epic Stationary Bike (getting closer to an actual bike!)
    Last edited by bmike; 01-02-2010 at 02:46 AM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyxcom
    You guys are completely missing the point.

    It has nothing to do with the bike. Epic is trademarked by Spesh for use in this industry so they should be able to use it how they see fit. What if Spesh wanted to launch their own line of accessories called "Epic" that contained a line of bags?

    The point is that who knows how Spesh is/was planning on capitalizing on the popularity or brand association of one of THEIR trademarks. Look at S-Works... bikes, tires, components, helmets, etc etc.
    So this allows Speshie to own to word Epic? Good grief man give your head a shake... BOYCOTT I SAY!!!!! I know If I actually owned a SpecialEd I would sell it simply because of this nonsense wether I love the bike or not... You will never see anything on me or my bikes that has the Epileptic"s" logo anywhere.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickerman1
    So this allows Speshie to own to word Epic? Good grief man give your head a shake... BOYCOTT I SAY!!!!! I know If I actually owned a SpecialEd I would sell it simply because of this nonsense wether I love the bike or not... You will never see anything on me or my bikes that has the Epileptic"s" logo anywhere.
    Thanks for stopping by to our little corner of MTBR.com. You have an interesting point of view.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickerman1
    So this allows Speshie to own to word Epic? Good grief man give your head a shake... BOYCOTT I SAY!!!!! I know If I actually owned a SpecialEd I would sell it simply because of this nonsense wether I love the bike or not... You will never see anything on me or my bikes that has the Epileptic"s" logo anywhere.
    the people who are actually directly involved with the bikes have nothing to do with any of specialized's legal affairs.
    I don't know about you, but I buy a bike for the bike and the warranty/support that comes with it. I don't judge a bike by the endeavors of some lawyers who most likely have never even seen the bike. Do I like the way sepcialized goes after every little legal nuance?? No. Am I going to sell my specialized bikes because of that?? No, because I'm not naive.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambdamaster
    the people who are actually directly involved with the bikes have nothing to do with any of specialized's legal affairs.
    I don't know about you, but I buy a bike for the bike and the warranty/support that comes with it. I don't judge a bike by the endeavors of some lawyers who most likely have never even seen the bike. Do I like the way sepcialized goes after every little legal nuance?? No. Am I going to sell my specialized bikes because of that?? No, because I'm not naive.
    You make a point, but in the end you are justifying a companies position because you feel their legal team have nothing to do with those whom actually make the products, thats pretty sad in my opinion.... Each to there own though....
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