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  1. #1
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    is it just me ? or is Specialized going down the drain.

    I dunno, I really love my 2 Specialized bikes, but i'm tired of them constantly rasing the price by a whole lot and barely changeing the components. for Example

    the 2003 P.1 = $390.00 and you got one sturdy bike
    the 2004 P.1= $600.00 and they didnt change anything
    The 2005 P.1=700.00 didnt change anything
    the 2005 P.i Cr-Mo first of its kind and worth 700.00

    03 the P.2 was like 500
    04= 700
    05=900 nothing changed, but they but another shitty fork on it
    06= a few changes, but you could upgrade an old p.2 and have 200 extra into it and have a better bike. instead of paying the pathetic 1100 for that bike

    Specialized value sucks balls anymore

    has anyone else noticed this ?
    Last edited by todd_freeride; 10-28-2005 at 12:20 PM. Reason: typo
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  2. #2
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by todd_freeride
    I dunno, I really love my 2 Specialized bikes, but i'm tired of them constantly rasing the price by a whole lot and barely changeing the components. for Example

    the 2003 P.1 = $390.00 and you got one sturdy bike
    the 2004 P.1= $600.00 and they didnt change anything
    The 2005 P.1=700.00 didnt change anything
    the 2005 P.i Cr-Mo first of its kind and worth 700.00

    03 the P.2 was like 500
    04= 700
    05=900 nothing changed, but they but another shitty fork on it
    06= a few changes, but you could upgrade an old p.2 and have 200 extra into it and have a better bike. instead of paying the pathetic 1100 for that bike

    Specialized value sucks balls anymore

    has anyone else noticed this ?
    indeed....I have owned and like my past Specialized.

    Having said that, i would never buy one. I would MUCH rather build a custom bike any day and frankly, could build a so called custom build for cheaper than the supposed comparable Specialized.....except I would like all of my parts instead of most of them (ie, some on a stock bike are DEFINITELY not gonna be my first choice....especially something like Crossmax SL wheels).

  3. #3
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    I like Specialized, and think they build very good bikes. But, year over year, prices have gone up, and it's harder to justify it when one compares it to other brands. It's usually at the point when one can build a boutique bike for about the same price. $7,000 for a Specialized, wow, it's too much for a mainstream bike, even if it's carbon. You could go Titus Exogrid custom, for example, and have to look for a lot of stuff to build it for the same price. I guess that goes the same for other boutique bikes.

    I think it happened to VW when they released (or wanted to, I don't know if they finally did releas) the Phaeton, which was supposed to be an excelent, luxury car to compete with Mercedes, BMW and such. I think they did poorly, not because the car was bad, but because it was outside of what people expected of VW. And, VW is going each year more expensive. One time it was one of the cheapest car brands, now it's turning into on of the most expensive.

    I hope that Specialized takes care of this and try to keep their prices more reasonable. Even then, the Demo 8 looks pretty nice!

  4. #4
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    I agree with you guys, in the past few years prices have been sky-rocketing, just because they are Specialized. Just look at the carbon Epic and Stumpjumper $7K WTF? and when you look at most of their offerings, there are a lot of their own brand, made in taiwan parts. For the price I can buy a mid model of them, say an enduro pro, I can build a Boutique frame + the parts that I really like. Also they are always involved in a legal matter with someone else which may be the cause of the rising costs of their bikes, to pay lawyers? Lately companies have been dropping the horst link in order to avoid the S licensing fees? (take for example Jamis in 2004 and now Turner, which was one of the biggest supporters of the HL design). They build great frames, beautifull ones I may add, and have been on the front in terms of innovation, but lately the company has been letting a lot of people down in the way they do business, that's the gossip or feel beetween people around. I think that when the main drive of a company balances to the side of profitability and not the sport, we customers and enthusiasts suffer the consequences.

    Anyway, ride hard!!!

  5. #5
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    7k...

    7k... $7000 bucks.... well you are talking about the CARBON FIBER versions of S-Works full suspension. bikes...

    Actually (and on second thought) when you get down to it.. I don't think there is an bike on the market that is truely worth more than say... $3000. It is all way overpriced and all worth half of what we pay. Big companies and boutiques alike...

    But I don't see Specialized doing anything that any other bike company is isn't doing with the pricing..
    Last edited by Stratocaster; 10-28-2005 at 10:02 PM.
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  6. #6
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratocaster
    7k... $7000 bucks.... well you are talking about the CARBON FIBER versions of S-Works full sus. bikes...
    Yep, but for that amount you get a Titus Racer-X or Motolite Exogrid, which are pretty nice high-end bikes with special titanium-fiber tubing.

    I'm not saying Spech is making bad bikes, I love the Stumpjumper (I have one), new Enduro and Demo bikes. But I just think is that Specialized is going more expensive and out of the market, IMHO.

  7. #7
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    The $7000 is definitely out of line for a taiwanese-made carbon frame. It is hard to compare on the MTB side (as there are few carbon frames out there) but it's sistem, the Tarmac SL, is the only road frame/bike made in Taiwan at that price. All of the other good taiwanese frames (like the Giant TCR, Scott CR1, Pinarello F4:13) are way under that price for a comparable build (complete bike typically $5K or under). Hell, the Look 585 (arguably the best frame money can buy, and just as light as the Tarmac) is cheaper than the Taiwanese Tarmac SL, and even the high-end made-in-the Formula 1 factory Italian bikes are cheaper, or at least no more expensive!

    Don't they want $2200 for an FSR 120 S-works frame in aluminum? Who would really take an S-works for $2200 over, say a Turner or Ventana for $1895? $1500 seems more reasonable for an S-works aluminum: it is a nice frame, but built on a much higher production level than surely Ventana. So, why would it be more expensive? Yeah, it does seem out of line, especially when you consider what others charge for a similiar bike probably built right next door.

  8. #8
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    Supply and demand. . . why charge less when you can make a greater profit.

    Of course, it'll start to hurt if they charge too much and folk stop buying. However, as there are Specialized dealers everywhere they capture a good slice of the lower end market and then can rely on some brand loyalty.

    To take the car analogy again - why are BMW making a 1-Series? Old time BM owners say it cheapens the "brand", but they know that they'll sell on the name and then folk'll trade up to a higher price model (see also Audi - A2, Mercedes A-Class, B-Class, Porsche Boxter)

  9. #9
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    fair points....

    to me the bottom line is that Specialized bikes, especially high level ones (and not just Specialized necessarily but any mass producer's high level bikes) are a rip off. I think many folks still believe, and in some cases it may be true, that an off the shelf bike costs less.

    I can guarantee you that a $4000 Specialized/Giant/etc.....is not gonna be near the bike even a semi-resourceful individual (or simply know the best shops to work with) can put together.....and with off the shelf you are at the mercy of the stock parts which while they may good, are not likely to be your first choice had you started from scratch.

    This is not to say that they are not gonna be good bikes......they will, just not nearly worth the coin you are gonna pay in my opinion.

  10. #10
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    I don't get the attraction with the BIG S - They are grossly overprices and frankly a bit overrated too - with the exception to the FSR. Its a good design thats for sure. We all know it but otherwise everything else is just too pricey!
    Trev!

  11. #11
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    I have owned to Specialized Stumpjumpers (currently a 2004 FSR Comp) and I have to say that they are fine bikes, well manufactured, and backed up with an excellent warrantey. Now that I sound like a complete suck up I have to add that if I did not have an excellent shop to work with I probably would have gotten a blur. When I buy a bike there is always more to it then the brand it self. You find a shop you like with people that treat you right and if costs me 50.00 more in the beginning but I know they will throw it back to me in usage of their tools, borrowing wheels it is worth it.

    However 7000 for a bike is a bit much. As prices climb higher, it seems laughable that you can purchase a decent used car for the same amount. The best thing you can do in this trend driven industry is to A. Buy a bike and ride it as long as you possibly can and upgrade as you go ex: 2200.00 Stumpjumper Comp or B. Do a custom build.

    The whole OE part thing has really gotten me down. I have done some reading on that and I understand why but as a conusmer I feel toyed with.

  12. #12
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    I agree that Spesh has gone down. I was initially going to buy an FSR, but thought i would save some money and get a BOUTIQUE version of the FSR ...a Racer x. Get to build it the way I want, not the way some desk jockey wants so they can have the largest profit margins on the least expensive components.
    i.e. $2200 for the s-works NON carbon frame
    $3800 for the Carbon frame

    $1700 (what i paid) for the 2006 Racer x With RP3, ti hardware, and carbon stays.
    HMMMMM what would you go for?
    My wife thinks I am nuts for spending this much on a bike. I tell her I think I am nuts for spending that much on her Diamond ring!

  13. #13
    Who are the brain police?
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    I paid a hell of a lot more for my SXT but when I compare what's on it compared to what I spent to get a Titus together... Specialized has mucho value.
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  14. #14
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    99% of buyers are NOT going to go the custom build route. Specialized (and Cannondale, Marin, Giant, Trek) are readily available at your LBS. You can see it, try it for size, perhaps get it adjusted or do a couple of trade-ups on parts and ride it away. Participating in fora like this can blind you to the view of the majority.


    druidh

  15. #15
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    whilst the top-end Specialized bikes seem outrageously expensive, they are their flagship bikes. like many brands, the flagship gear is prohibitively expensive and not produced for the mass market. they are a niche machine, for sponsored racers and those who perhaps have more money than sense.

    BMW M3CSL, porsche 911 GT3, mercedes AMG, etc, etc. these are souped-up versions of regular versions and prohibitively expensive to the average person. specialized's marketing and R&D departments obviously feel there's a need for a flagship model to push the envelope and hang the expense, and probably with little to no expectation of selling big numbers of these models.

    the regular lower-end to midspec models still remain competitive IMHO. they are a bit more expensive than other popular brands, but not totally unreasonably so. cos in the end, they remain very high quality bikes/frames, and some people buy BMWs/mercedes instead of regulation ford's and toyota's.


  16. #16
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    The other way for me.

    After owning Yeti/Cannondale in the past and now owning a frame build S-works i'd say for me personally that they are up there with the best. My Yeti cost more and was as good in quality but more than the s-works, the Cannondale gemini on the other hand although great to ride had huge quality issues and expensive and cost me a lot of money. With my other previous Specialized 03/04 versions there was minor qulaity control issues. Cable routes rubbing ascross the bb, and an unreamed seat tube, They haver gone up a step in quality recently and I'm more than happy to pay for that. But I got a frame only so it's not fair for me to comment on the OEM and spesh branded stuff.

  17. #17
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    I really like the VW comparison. That people were not ready to throw down money on a phateon when they could get a bmw or something similar for their money. Now we all know that VW has a luxury brand, Audi. People will throw down more for an Audi when in many respects they are getting VW product (A4/Passat). The big diff is most of if not all of those Audi are made in Germany. Is Specialized making these Carbon flagships in California? I think not. Are they the first company to make carbon fiber frames? Not really. Is S-works the Audi of Specialized and we just are not seeing it that way as the consumer? Not sure.

    What it comes down to is what are you willing to spend? I would love a new S-Works 120 but when it comes down it my fsr comp 100 will do me just fine. Next bike I get I will have to look long and hard at what is out there. By that time the s-works will be 8000 I am sure but that will not be for me anyhow.

    If you take value into consideration as a consumer you cannot match the price point ability of these companies. Specialized buys Avid Juicys by the crate so they have the ability to throw a 2200 dollar fsr comp together that we don't.

    As for the titus question you must always go with what fits you. To me fit is the most important aspect. Components I can adjust but fit is huge. Quality of course is right there because I don't want to be sitting around the shop with a cracked down tube.

  18. #18
    jsg
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    reality check please

    All you guys who say you can build up a Titus or whatever for cheaper than a Specialized, let's hear about your shop discounts or industry discounts....For the rest of us, I highly doubt we could come up with a similar component package for the same price. Try buying your fork, wheels, drivetrain, etc at freaking retail price at some shop.

  19. #19
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    I was looking at the componentry for a 2005 Stumpjumper Expert, and theres no way that you can even buy the componentry for the $2099 price tag, and thats not even adding the cost of a boutique frame to put them on. With Specialized buying power, you simply cannot make a custom build with new, similar level componentry for that cost unless you are getting your parts at a major discount that the general public does not get. And Specialized certainly makes a quality bike and backs it up. This is the appeal of Specialized.

    Now the bad...... $7000 is indeed ridiculous for a bicycle, carbon fiber or not. Thats roughly the same price as the big 4 japanese manufacturers 250 cc motocross bikes. Theres is just no way in the world that the cost of the parts and manufacturing of a bicycle (again, carbon fiber or not) is up there with that of a race ready motocross motorcycle. And MTB's have been going up in price astronomically over the last few years, not just from Specialized. My buddy's 2002 Trek Fuel 100 cost him roughly $2200 when he bought it new. The new ones cost close to $5,000.

    Specialized (and the other manufacturers) know one thing though....There are those that will pay that much to have the top of the line bike. But it won't be me.
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  20. #20
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    The Specialized Enduro Pro for 05, with the nicest parts Specialized could come up with, was $5000.00+ in Canada. Totally ridiculous for a mass produced, outsourced bicycle. I have no inside connections, but I could build a boutique bike with comparable parts for the same price as this in Canada.

    The shops that I am familiar with will give a discount when a frame and additional parts are purchased. It is unlikely one will pay full retail when buying a full package custom bike. At least not in my experience.
    Last edited by ronny; 10-29-2005 at 10:39 AM.

  21. #21
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    Supply and Demand

    I think we all forget sometimes that these companies (all of them) are running a business. Bikes are not priced at their true value, but their perceived value. Specialized has a significant marketing budget, and a lot of big names behind their product. They have consistently been well reviewed, even with what I perceive as some bias against them by the "core" riders that do the reviewing. MBA which more or less ignored the '05 Sworks Stumpy has called the '06 the "perfect trail bike" and couldn't believe they were doing it. They price the bikes at what they believe people will pay. I'm sure they have a big budget and some very smart people working solely to figure out what that will be. At the same time I don't know anyone that has ever paid full retail on a bicycle. Similar to the ski industry, the prices are inflated and full price is paid by very few (stupid) individuals. Most of us are buying frames, forks, bikes, etc. at pretty large discounts. I bought by S-Works Stumpy from a local shop for 1700, and built it to spec myself with parts sourced from shops, ebay, and internet for less than 3500. I feel that was a very good deal at that price.

    And what about quality and warranties. I ride an Ellsworth Joker as a freeride frame, and replaced a Top Fuel with the Sworks. The build quality on the Sworks is every bit as good as both. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the build quality (fish scale welds, etc.) on Specialized bicycles far surpasses any of the other Taiwan built bikes that I know of and is equal to or better what I've seen on other bicycles I've seen. In the words of a recent review by nsmb.com "Again I'm amazed that Specialized has managed to build a Taiwanese bike with quality and attention to detail that rivals (and often surpasses) high priced domestically produced exotics. Maybe they have a secret factory with a master race of welders, fabricators and CNC gnomes."

    If you don't believe they're worth it, dont buy one. But as long as Specialized keeps putting out great bikes with great technology they'll continue to be a leader in the market and people will continue buying them.

  22. #22
    jsg
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    If a shop does not have the parts in stock and must special order for you, the discount they are going to give will be maybe 10% or so. And good luck finding a shop that has a high end bike built up for you to test ride.

    The parts to build my 04 Epic base would cost over $1200 at pricepoint.com, and that does not even include cables and of course does not include the cost of the frame itself. Labor not included either.
    Last edited by jsg; 10-29-2005 at 11:37 AM.

  23. #23
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    I have to agree with you there!....

    [QUOTE=DaFireMedic]I was looking at the componentry for a 2005 Stumpjumper Expert, and theres no way that you can even buy the componentry for the $2099 price tag, and thats not even adding the cost of a boutique frame to put them on. With Specialized buying power, you simply cannot make a custom build with new, similar level componentry for that cost unless you are getting your parts at a major discount that the general public does not get. And Specialized certainly makes a quality bike and backs it up. This is the appeal of Specialized.

    My 05 Stumpy FSR 100 cost me $1800 with disc brake upgrade. A comparable Turner Flux would have run me $3550! And I speced the Flux IDENTICAL as far as component level etc. to the Stump. That doesn't sound like comparable cost to me. The Flux frame would have cost me as much as my whole Stumpy! Where you start narrowing the gap is between like the Flux and the 06 Stumpy Pro. The Stump MSRP's for $3800, the Flux would spec at right around $4200. But you're still looking at a $400 difference. And the way I would spec a Flux would run MUCH closer to $5000.

    I agree that the with Carbon and Sworks bikes are over priced. With an identical build spec you can build a 5 Spot for about $500 less than the 06 Sworks complete bike.

    All I know is that if you match spec with the Specialized Stumpies you don't start saving anything by going Botique bike until you get into the WAY high end, i.e. Sworks/Sworks Carbon.

    I have to agree with DFM on this one.

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  24. #24
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    The best thing about Specialized

    Quote Originally Posted by todd_freeride
    I dunno, I really love my 2 Specialized bikes, but i'm tired of them constantly rasing the price by a whole lot and barely changeing the components. for Example

    the 2003 P.1 = $390.00 and you got one sturdy bike
    the 2004 P.1= $600.00 and they didnt change anything
    The 2005 P.1=700.00 didnt change anything
    the 2005 P.i Cr-Mo first of its kind and worth 700.00

    03 the P.2 was like 500
    04= 700
    05=900 nothing changed, but they but another shitty fork on it
    06= a few changes, but you could upgrade an old p.2 and have 200 extra into it and have a better bike. instead of paying the pathetic 1100 for that bike

    Specialized value sucks balls anymore

    has anyone else noticed this ?
    is/was? bang for the buck, as far as their new carbon fiber FS epic IMO what a waste, aluminum FS frame is plenty light and absorbing.

  25. #25
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    I think we are all in agreement

    and it is time to move on to a new topic. This is my take on things.

    1.7000 is rediculous

    2. Specialized makes quality bikes

    3. The price of their line has gone up every year and there are a multitude of reasons as to why that is occuring.

    4. Building your own bike is fun but costly and it would take real skill to match the value of the average mass produced bike (oem parts, etc.....)

    5. Specialized has great warrantey.

    6. We should get off of our computers and get out and ride.

    Are we all in agreement on this?

  26. #26
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    and I almost forgot

    MBA is a weird rag. They have their own bias and dub products as being great based upon their own reasoning. I do notice that they have been using a 2004 Stumpjumper FSR 100 (Anniversary Edition I believe) as their product test bike and recently turned it into an 8-Speed for an article. They were so-so on the 2005 S-Works 120 for various reasons (I forget). They are a trend purveyor. The UK magazines that I have read at the local barnes and noble have better articles and tests. You should check them out.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsg
    All you guys who say you can build up a Titus or whatever for cheaper than a Specialized, let's hear about your shop discounts or industry discounts....For the rest of us, I highly doubt we could come up with a similar component package for the same price. Try buying your fork, wheels, drivetrain, etc at freaking retail price at some shop.
    Check:
    http://www.titusti.com/prices_mtnkit.html

    A Moto Lite exogrid, which is titanium-carbon fiber, XTR components for 7,065. THAT bike can be built to your specification, so pretty nice fit.

    The Racer-X exogrid with the same spec. is $6,575. Also customized to your fit.

    I built a MotoLite Aluminium for $3,100, just decided what I want from Speedgoat, no special discount.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHSAD
    MBA is a weird rag. They have their own bias and dub products as being great based upon their own reasoning. I do notice that they have been using a 2004 Stumpjumper FSR 100 (Anniversary Edition I believe) as their product test bike and recently turned it into an 8-Speed for an article. They were so-so on the 2005 S-Works 120 for various reasons (I forget). They are a trend purveyor. The UK magazines that I have read at the local barnes and noble have better articles and tests. You should check them out.
    I am not trying to discourage anyone from reading them, but I stopped buying the UK mags. I was paying over $9 (with tax) per magazine and getting roughly the same average of 15-30 minutes of interesting reading per mag as I am with MBA and the other domestic magazines. Plus all the ads (which I like to read) are all in Euros which I can't keep up with, the pictures are nice but stories about trails in the UK and Europe don't interest me a whole lot. They've got some good writers, but some are very poor (just like the domestic mags). The reviews and tests are good, possibly better than MBA , but they are still just the opinion of that writer and should be taken for what they are worth. In the end, I find the same or more entertainment (which is all magazines are to me) from the $3.99 domestic magazines that I did from the $9 UK ones. If I lived in the UK, I'm sure that would be different.
    If you want to play with electricity, more power to ya......

  29. #29
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    Anyway, I still thing that Specialized builds pretty nice bikes, and whatever bike I'll buy next (eeek, hope in about 2 years, but I have said that for the last 3 bikes) I'll think on Spec.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaFireMedic
    I am not trying to discourage anyone from reading them, but I stopped buying the UK mags. I was paying over $9 (with tax) per magazine and getting roughly the same average of 15-30 minutes of interesting reading per mag as I am with MBA and the other domestic magazines. Plus all the ads (which I like to read) are all in Euros which I can't keep up with, the pictures are nice but stories about trails in the UK and Europe don't interest me a whole lot. They've got some good writers, but some are very poor (just like the domestic mags). The reviews and tests are good, possibly better than MBA , but they are still just the opinion of that writer and should be taken for what they are worth. In the end, I find the same or more entertainment (which is all magazines are to me) from the $3.99 domestic magazines that I did from the $9 UK ones. If I lived in the UK, I'm sure that would be different.
    If you are actually READING the magazine I would say Dirt Rag is the way to go

    BTW I have a 27lbs 04 Enduro Expert all pimped out: DT Swiss 4.1D rims, Hope bulb back hub/ XC front, Hope skewers and seat clamp, Thomson post, carbon bars, candy ti pedals, King headset, XO rear d and shiffters, SRAM 990 cassette, "Pushed" shock and fork - much needed after last race season, kenda nevegal tires, even a pure v saddle with the snowshoe logo embroidered in it and some other stuff I'm sure i have missed. I have a little over 3k in the bike. I just spec'd a Motolite on speedgoat with a similar build and it wasn't even close... $4300+ and I was still missing cables and a few other minor things. That's why I bought a specialized and I'm sure others would agree. You can customize your ride for MUCH less than most of the boutique brands.

  31. #31
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    Dirt

    That's the magazine at the mo. It's UK based mind...

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    So we can all agree

    that:

    1. Buying a magazine for 10.00 is pretty wasteful when all the same info is online.

    2. Most of the reccomendations I take on products comes from other riders and trusted shop employees not a west coast magazine that for doesn't test on the same terrain as here in New England.

    3. That this is a trend based industry. For example if you bought a 100mm or 4 inch stumpy in 2004 is there really a reason to go back for the extra 20mm of the 2006? You could save a ton of money and add a few top of the line parts to your current rig (crankset, wheelset, etc....). Then you could even spin those upgrades off to your next frame if you choose to build yourself or your next complete and sell off the parts you don't care for.

    4. I love mountain biking and to me it is one of the best sports in the world. Truly we and specialized and everyother rider should be out working on trail access and trail building. I think we can all agree on that.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHSAD
    that:

    1. Buying a magazine for 10.00 is pretty wasteful when all the same info is online.

    2. Most of the reccomendations I take on products comes from other riders and trusted shop employees not a west coast magazine that for doesn't test on the same terrain as here in New England.

    3. That this is a trend based industry. For example if you bought a 100mm or 4 inch stumpy in 2004 is there really a reason to go back for the extra 20mm of the 2006? You could save a ton of money and add a few top of the line parts to your current rig (crankset, wheelset, etc....). Then you could even spin those upgrades off to your next frame if you choose to build yourself or your next complete and sell off the parts you don't care for.

    4. I love mountain biking and to me it is one of the best sports in the world. Truly we and specialized and everyother rider should be out working on trail access and trail building. I think we can all agree on that.
    The magazine's do suck these days. The latest MBA: every bike reviewed this month (Kona, Maverick, Santa Cruz) was rated A+++. It seems that a bike has to be really, really bad to get anything less than a glowing recommendation, and even then, it is still "this is a good bike". Also, it wasn't long ago when they were talking about doing a hillclimb and coming back down, and how they described that all of the guys on trailbike-type tires were going to pinchflat on the way back down, and that you needed to lug 2.3's up the climb to make it down OK. Gee, I remember when the biggest tire available was 2.1, and I don't remember pinchflatting, ever! Sure, maybe I needed a bit more caution than if I had modern wider tires, but I don't remember any sense of impending doom!

    Or, that the Schwlabe Big Jim 2.2 wasn't big enough for a trailbike tire: what are they talking about? What is it, a race tire at 800g for UST version? Then later in the same mag, different article, the IRC 2.25 tire on the Prophet 800 was "way too much tire for a 140mm bike!) They sure do go the "flavor of the month" route, and pretty soon, it will be "any bike under 6" of travel just isn't suitable for anything but smooth singletrack". I am sure it will be just a matter of time!

  34. #34
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    I am not a retro grouch

    but I agree with your assessments of MBA. I am waiting for the 6" thing to appear any day now. I think they associate 4" trail bikes with neon lycra, anodized hubs, and 7 speed. I would love to see an issue in which they actually look at what people really ride and then talk about the various terrains or parts of the country that the product would work best. I love how they contradict themselves about tire sizes as your previoulsy pointed out. I really wonder what would happen if they did give a poor review to the product of a major manufacturer that pays their bills? Imagine that? I know it is a business and we as smart consumers know the when we are being lead around. Nice to be able to vent here.

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    And another thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by CHSAD
    but I agree with your assessments of MBA. I am waiting for the 6" thing to appear any day now. I think they associate 4" trail bikes with neon lycra, anodized hubs, and 7 speed. I would love to see an issue in which they actually look at what people really ride and then talk about the various terrains or parts of the country that the product would work best. I love how they contradict themselves about tire sizes as your previoulsy pointed out. I really wonder what would happen if they did give a poor review to the product of a major manufacturer that pays their bills? Imagine that? I know it is a business and we as smart consumers know the when we are being lead around. Nice to be able to vent here.
    I agree with you about the the travel issue of racer-boy bikes. The MBA boys sound like a bunch of old women at a bingo hall. And what's with them giving the weights of components in pounds and ounces? It's pretty stupid considering the whole bike industry uses grams. Just remember: old fat women don't wear spandex cycling shorts. Maybe the next big thing at MBA will be 22" travel bikes with electric motor assist and automatic transmissions.. Why should you have to pedal and shift a bike anyway?

    Don

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHSAD
    but I agree with your assessments of MBA. I am waiting for the 6" thing to appear any day now. I think they associate 4" trail bikes with neon lycra, anodized hubs, and 7 speed. I would love to see an issue in which they actually look at what people really ride and then talk about the various terrains or parts of the country that the product would work best. I love how they contradict themselves about tire sizes as your previoulsy pointed out. I really wonder what would happen if they did give a poor review to the product of a major manufacturer that pays their bills? Imagine that? I know it is a business and we as smart consumers know the when we are being lead around. Nice to be able to vent here.
    You're waiting for the 6" number in suspension for trailbikes? It's already here, or at least, it's showing it's ugly head around the corner... Santa Cruz Nomad, nice 6" trailbike.

    In the MBA 2004 bike shootout, they reviewed 1,500 bikes, and I don't think they required any specific travel (the Stumpjumper beat that run), this year, it was 2,000, and you needed 5" to enter the game. Next year will be what, $3,000? It seems every year bikes (or at least magazines) are getting more expensive.

    MBA reviewed great the Stump FSR 120, but mentioned that it bobbed sometimes, so a lot of people didn't like that bike because they said it bobbed

    Also, in 2004 they were mentioned that as a begginer, one should pay attention to not spending too much in a bike, now they say you should buy the most expensive bike you can afford.

    Regarding the post, I really doubt that Spec is going down the drain, I just think it is getting too expensive and that they should be carefull in ther merchandizing. It's comming out with great bikes, but maybe too expensive when one compares them to competition. Maybe I was too harsh about the Titus stuff, but I agree with druidh in that most people who buy Specialized are not going to go custom.

    I think that the customer's that Spec might find that might drift to boutique brands are people who buy over $3,000 bikes and like to meddle with their bikes. I think that $3,000 is the mark when you can start building a nice custom bike from scratch. Maybe their main customers are in the $1,000-2,000 range.

    I think mostly is that when you decide to go custom, you should know more about bike's components than just the overall package. Yep, it's also hard to test ride a custom bike. If you get it right, it's an awesome ride, but if not, you'll end up with a lot of money wasted.

    The biggest competition for Spec, from my point of view, are Trek, Giant, Cannondale, etc., which are bikes most people would find on stores and see, which is important. The deal is, unless you've riden a Specialiced, a Prophet 600 or 800 sound pretty aggresive costing less with 140mm of travel. Or the Giant Reing, being the #1 at MBA (some people read it), will be also cheaper than a Enduro (the new model).

  37. #37
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    It's interesting that no one mentioned those 4 magic words here: "end of year sale"

    I bought my first full suspension bike this year, a 2005 Stumpjumper FSR Comp for $1599.
    Sure, it "only" has 4" travel, but I doubt if I'll ever outgrow it as I mostly do XC wih some occasional technical trail riding from time to time. And if I really come to the day I think I need that 5 or 6" the mags seem to be pushing, I'll get a new fork and rear shock mod. In the meantime, Let's get 'outa here and ride!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Devil
    It's interesting that no one mentioned those 4 magic words here: "end of year sale"

    I bought my first full suspension bike this year, a 2005 Stumpjumper FSR Comp for $1599.
    Sure, it "only" has 4" travel, but I doubt if I'll ever outgrow it as I mostly do XC wih some occasional technical trail riding from time to time. And if I really come to the day I think I need that 5 or 6" the mags seem to be pushing, I'll get a new fork and rear shock mod. In the meantime, Let's get 'outa here and ride!
    You hit the nail on the head right there. I can't be buying my "dream bike" every year or 2, as much as I'd like to. I may buy a more trail specific bike here pretty soon, but it won't be a $4000 boutique bike. I'm just going to buy the one that fits me best for my budget (It may quite possibly be a Stumpjumper) and the ride it till the wheels fall off.
    If you want to play with electricity, more power to ya......

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    You're waiting for the 6" number in suspension for trailbikes? It's already here, or at least, it's showing it's ugly head around the corner... Santa Cruz Nomad, nice 6" trailbike.
    Yeah, I know the 6" option exists for trailbikes (Ventana X-6, SC Nomad, Giant Reign). These can all be built up at or under 30lbs and make for a fairly light, do-anything chassis. But, 6" bikes are but one option. MBA is going to make it sound like EVERYONE must be riding a 6" trailbike or they are some sort of retro-grouch-it will be all about the latest and greatest. Yes, there are a sizeable amount of riders who can and will use the travel, but EVERYONE? They will totally ignore or seriously minimize the negative aspects of long-travel bikes (high BB, weight, sluggish handling) instead of noting that this may not be the best bike for all riders: not everyone wants or needs a bike that can regularly handle 6' drops. Heck, I don't even know any riders around here (Central Oregon) that have bikes with that much travel: for a FS, 4" or 5" bikes are the norm. Lots of Scalpels, Trance's, VT's, Racer-X's, Burner's, FSR 100 or 120's, and Kikapu's. I know one guy new to mountain biking that bought a Giant AC based on a review that is was a great "do-everything bike". He didn't realize that "do-everything" didn't refer to trailriding, it referred to fairly aggressive riding that could hurt you, which wasn't in his future. I think after a couple of rides, he realized that, despite some magazine advise, singletrack trailriding doesn't require a bomber 33lb rig. It wasn't long before that bike was up on Ebay.

    Sure, a Nomad would be a fun bike to own, but would I choose it for a 40-mile Central Oregon ride with lots of climbing and descending? No way! But, a 26lb FSR 120 is the perfect tool for the job! I love mine!

  40. #40
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    I think that the travel numbers getting higher will at some point be maxed, and suspension designers will spend more time tunning it up than maxing it. I think that Preston (or some other company) has release a 4" freeride jig, that's kinda weird now with a low number in that market.

    I ran my ML last weekend at 4" and felt it pretty good. Also, my Stumpy is the 100mm travel and pretty good for the trails I do, and theire kinda rocky sometimes.

  41. #41
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    My point was I spent more for Titus but got more value for the dollar on the Spec. But FWIW I did spend a bunch on the Spec. too.

    I guess I wasn't too clear.
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  42. #42
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    I for one agree

    after spending hours researching what bike to buy on the specialized website it kept reoccuring to me that specialized is trying to find the cheapest specs out their and somehow the prices keep inclining

  43. #43
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    I think the higher end of specialized seems to have skyrocketed in price. Everything from the "pro" level up. The Stumpjumper Pro went up $1000!! None of the shops around me are carrying any S-Works or Pro level bikes anymore this year, they say "We'll order them, but they are too expensive to keep in case we don't sell them"

    And here I wanted to test ride a Stumpy with the brain shock

  44. #44
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    only s works dealers

    can order s works bikes. I believe there is a minimum order of 5. That makes the bikes hard to get by even the largest shops, and therefore why move off msrp.

    Personally, I hope the S works exclusivity thing blows up in the big S's face. I imagine a s### load of carbon stumpy fsr's left over and blown out this time next year.

    I am the big S marketing guy's dream, two bikes, every concievable piece of clothing for both on and off the bike, as well as stickers on my truck. My riding buddies call me Mr. Specialized for christ sake.

    Where to go with pricing in 2007, huh?

  45. #45
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    Sometime I wonder whether the high price for the S-Works Carbon is due to the shortage of raw carbon fiber. Been reading a number of articles about there being some sort of world wide shortage of raw carbon material due to the sudden surge in its usage from everything from car bonets to bike parts and to military applications.

    Look the new SRAM carbon stuff. They're all pretty pricy too! Can you imagine forking out that amount of money for a pair of X.0 Triggers??

    Wait a minute, I do own a pair!

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