Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7

    ellsworth moment or specialised enduro pro.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    which one is the best bike? presuming a similar parts mix

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tarekith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,051
    Well, since you're in the Specialized forum.....
    Tarekith.com

    '12 RM Slayer70, i9 Torch, Flow EX, XT Brakes, 5050 s3.

  3. #3
    memorable member
    Reputation: mashochist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,126
    Hey plummet,

    I cant compare those two models but I did recently switch from a truth to a stump 120.
    The suspension designs are similarly different between the two. My take is that the new specialized design is more efficient in many ways. Also the warranty and customer service at specialized is miles ahead of ells. That isnt opinion that part is fact.2 year warranty at ells. lifetime warranty at spec.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kcavtca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    312

    ICT is darn nice, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by plummet
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    which one is the best bike? presuming a similar parts mix
    I've been looking hard at a Enduro comparison to the Turner 6-Pack which is of course very similar to the Moment (I would choose Turner eons before Ells). Some things I noticed on the Enduro are:

    Its got a much bigger e2e and longer stroke shock than a 6-Pack (and prpbably a Moment too. Enduro is 8.75" w. 2.5" stroke and 6-Pack is 7.5" w/ 3" stroke).

    If you mount a 36 on front, the fork can't damage the downtube...I think it could strike it on a "regular" bike since its so wide (I'll be looking into this).

    Standover - the enduro has tons more, not sure how much more, but obviously more

    For me, after a long time leaning towards the Turner, I'm starting to think the Enduro with the DHX Air might be the way to go (I would only buy it with the DHX, not the problematic 5th Element). For the DHX Air part we have to wait at least a few more months, not sure how long.

    -kcavt
    Last edited by kcavtca; 07-16-2005 at 01:53 AM.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by kcavtca
    I've been looking hard at a Enduro comparison to the Turner 6-Pack which is of course very similar to the Moment (I would choose Turner eons before Ells). Some things I noticed on the Enduro are:

    Its got a much bigger e2e and longer stroke shock than a 6-Pack (and prpbably a Moment too. Enduro is 8.75" w. 2.5" stroke and 6-Pack is 7.5" w/ 3" stroke).

    If you mount a 36 on front, the fork can't damage the downtube...I think it could strike it on a "regular" bike since its so wide (I'll be looking into this).

    Standover - the enduro has tons more, not sure how much more, but obviously more

    For me, after a long time leaning towards the Turner, I'm starting to think the Enduro with the DHX Air might be the way to go (I would only buy it with the DHX, not the problematic 5th Element). For the DHX Air part we have to wait at least a few more months, not sure how long.

    -kcavt
    6 pack has a 2.25" stroke (just like the moment), not 3". The only Turner with a 3" stroke is the DHR (and the Demo 9 has a 3" too) - both 9.5x3" shocks...

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kcavtca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by syadasti
    6 pack has a 2.25" stroke (just like the moment), not 3". The only Turner with a 3" stroke is the DHR (and the Demo 9 has a 3" too) - both 9.5x3" shocks...
    Yup - sorry, it was a late night typo, although I thought it was a 2" stroke, not 2.25"...not that it matters...

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by kcavtca
    Yup - sorry, it was a late night typo, although I thought it was a 2" stroke, not 2.25"...not that it matters...
    Hmm, you are right, maybe it was the prototype 6-pack that had 2.25 - wonder why they didn't go for lower leverage ratio like other AM/Light FR high-end frames...

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    742
    take a cruise on the ellsworth forum and check out some of the threads about warranties.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kcavtca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman
    take a cruise on the ellsworth forum and check out some of the threads about warranties.
    Yeah, I did the warrenty crisis tour once myself. I would think they've gotten their act together since as that episode I would think impacted their sales for years.

    Interesting to note is that (I think, and am not totally sure), Turner changed from a lifetime warranty to a 2 year right around when that episode occurred. Lifetime warranties opens up a company to unforeseen catastophe, and for all we know it would have been defective tubing supplied to Ellsworth...and maybe a settlement there is all that's kept Ellworth afloat the past couple of years. I really have no idea how their overall business has been (I don't want to infer I'm an insider). In all seriousness, I think those postings you referred to could be textbook material for business school in how NOT to communicate with your customers. I'll never forget the post by the Ellworth Customer Service Manager that had a line after stating they weren't techincally reneging on their warranty - it went something like this [I'm not going to bother searching for it], "...if you want to call me a liar do so to my face. I'm the guy on the trail with the red Ellsworth." That line exists forever on these boards, and has to be the most inept PR I've ever seen.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    742
    Quote Originally Posted by kcavtca
    Yeah, I did the warrenty crisis tour once myself. I would think they've gotten their act together since as that episode I would think impacted their sales for years.

    Interesting to note is that (I think, and am not totally sure), Turner changed from a lifetime warranty to a 2 year right around when that episode occurred. Lifetime warranties opens up a company to unforeseen catastophe, and for all we know it would have been defective tubing supplied to Ellsworth...and maybe a settlement there is all that's kept Ellworth afloat the past couple of years. I really have no idea how their overall business has been (I don't want to infer I'm an insider). In all seriousness, I think those postings you referred to could be textbook material for business school in how NOT to communicate with your customers. I'll never forget the post by the Ellworth Customer Service Manager that had a line after stating they weren't techincally reneging on their warranty - it went something like this [I'm not going to bother searching for it], "...if you want to call me a liar do so to my face. I'm the guy on the trail with the red Ellsworth." That line exists forever on these boards, and has to be the most inept PR I've ever seen.

    It amazes me sometimes how clueless some people are. I did the warranty thing twice when I was building my computer. One company was great, the other sucked the big one. Bad customer service gets around too. Just look at companies like beyond bikes, Im sure their online traffic is much more then the store and when their rep gets tarnished you can kiss a significant amount of money good bye. The sad thing is a company may make a quality product but the moment they screw up they are done. I myself as a consumer am not willing to take the risk when I have so many other choices out there that i dont have to worry about.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kcavtca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    312
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman
    It amazes me sometimes how clueless some people are. I did the warranty thing twice when I was building my computer. One company was great, the other sucked the big one. Bad customer service gets around too. Just look at companies like beyond bikes, Im sure their online traffic is much more then the store and when their rep gets tarnished you can kiss a significant amount of money good bye. The sad thing is a company may make a quality product but the moment they screw up they are done. I myself as a consumer am not willing to take the risk when I have so many other choices out there that i dont have to worry about.
    And that's the modern way. Your computer experience reflects some reality I feel in my job as an Internet marketing manager for a company with an extensive portfolio of products, some of which have been panned by consumers on Amazon for good reason. The painful part I'm trying to convince my company of is how these painful comments on product and customer service quality will take years to "sweep under the rug". My company has fully good intentions, but this kind of thing in the computer compenents industry is a cutting edge issue (high volume products which were hot just years ago becoming commodities). We want to think bikes are different, but with high performance products being more accessible like the Enduro (potentially being a best-to-date breed of bike), companies will have to adjust to reality of a company like Specialized being able to offer lifetime warranties. Its a huge attraction for me as a customer. Thanks to the net we know that Specialized tried to change the policy in Europe to 5 years. It backfired - partly because (I'll go ahead and guess) Europeans knew of the US lifetime warranty, and this is a valid complaint.

    I know that the Turner company has an amazing customer satisfaction record. Its easy to admire their bikes (just read the tons of positives and few negative comments), and I think companies like Specialized with the Enduro are only now catching up to boutique competition via huge R&D. Its capitalism at its best, and until these crazy tube forming machines become more available to smaller mfgs (they will eventually of course), the boutique builders are going to have to rely on over-the-top customer service (i.e. call Turner and the same people answer the phone all the time), to expand their customer base.

    I myself really love the idea of buying a "made in the USA" product, but when I've got the Enduro dangled in my face its harder to say yes to USA. I will say however that for the prices on the S-Works line, I wish it were made state side. Of course the hard reality is that it may result in actual lower quality due to separation of prouction lines.

    okay...blabbering off/

    -kcavt

Similar Threads

  1. The Ellsworth Warranty--the rest of the story.
    By Tony Ellsworth in forum Ellsworth
    Replies: 174
    Last Post: 02-10-2005, 12:28 PM
  2. How I (almost) took Ellsworth to court
    By bock in forum Ellsworth
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 12-28-2004, 10:49 AM
  3. Dakar Sport vs. Pro frames
    By remsen in forum Jamis
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-09-2004, 01:28 PM
  4. Replies: 55
    Last Post: 10-25-2004, 10:14 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •