e150 fork alignment
anybody know how to align the E150 fork correctly.....I did a service and slick honey treatment but the fork has a ton of stiction and my thinking is that it isnt aligned in the crowns correctly. Thanx
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm also having a similar problem. I used Slick Honey grease with 20cc Fox 7wt High Performance Suspension Fluid (each side) and soaked the foam wipers in Fox Anti-Friction Float Fluid. There is now a lot of friction for the first inch or so when I compress the fork for the first time after its been sitting for while ... but then it gets smooth - a little smoother than before I took it apart. I've tried adjusting the position of the right side on the axle, but there is still more stiction than I'd like. The bike is still pretty new, so it may not be broken in all the way yet.
Does this sound similar to the problem you are having? What type of oil did you use?
I used finish line 7.5 wt suspension oil.....I just know that it has to be an alignment problem because if it off a smidgen it wont compress correctly.
You both need to Private message or seach for posts by Speci-Suspension Tech.
Are the circular stainless steel springs still on the outside of the dust seals?
Did you happen to bend one of the dust seals if you removed it.
Is it posible that one of the foam wipers fell into the stancion?
If I had the same problem as you I would completly do the "Slick Honey Treatment" again, except for removing the dust seals. (There is no reason to remove them) and find the problem.
Originally Posted by forker
Totally agree with PB Matrix!
That is, if Kelstr doesn't get to this thread first!! I am more than confident that Kelstr will be able to resolve your problems blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back, whilst eating a bowl of soup and watching a Super Bowl re-run...............He kind of knows his stuff on these E150 Forks and AFR Shocks
Lend me £20.00 and I'll buy you a drink!
the easiest thing to do to keep a check on your alighnment ( this is after you have performed the slickhoney treatment )
remove both cartridges but leave the ft end on the bike ( wheel , brakes, bars and all )
set your bike upside down on some carpet or cardboard,
and now you can lightly stand on your handle bar ends and grab your ft wheel and slowly move the fork through the 6" of travel and you can feel you tight and loose spots .
now move your rt axle boss in different positions along the axle and keep moving your forks through out your 6" of travel untill you find the smoothest spot .------then mark your axle position so when you remove your ft wheel you can re-set your rt axle boss in this sweet spot
also ----on any of these forks , fox, marzocci , specialzed ..etc...,
when you let them sit shortly and the air cartridge it totally toped out , ---it smashes its piston into the top of the cartridge and the top out bumper and it gets vacuumed into honey and two smooth surfaces ------and yes, ---the first time you go to move your ft end it will be stuck and alittle gooey for abit.
and also ----when your bike is new it does take quite some time to get it all worked in and loosened up ------and then it still needs to be warmed up alittle to get it moveing smoothly .
and depending on how cold it is where you are at , the cold can drastically affect on how well you fork will move untill it is warm up.
i have found that the Honda HP5 fork oil really seems to mix well with the slick honey and keeps the ft end moving the smoothest .
i also turn my bike upside down the night before a ride to let the HP5 run up into the bushings and seals ----( you really want to see honey being pushed out your seals when you ride ------if not --you do not have enough honey packed on your seals and packing)
i also like to make sure the cartridges have alot of slick honey covering their damper rods and on the out side of the plastic bushing on the air cartridge also.
this helps stiction also .
I am having trouble visualizing an "Axel Boss".
Do you mean tightening and or loosening the 25mm axel that goes thru the front wheel’s hub?
I can see if the axel is too tight it will cause the lowers of the fork to be closer together and there by cause an inward bow of the fork which would cause additional sticktion.
And if it was too loose the front wheel would have a side to side wobble.
The tightening and or loosening the bolts that clamp down the 25mm axel into the forks lowers?
"now move your rt axle boss in different positions along the axle and keep moving your forks through out your 6" of travel untill you find the smoothest spot .------then mark your axle position so when you remove your ft wheel you can re-set your rt axle boss in this sweet spot :thumbsup:"
I may be thick but I am having trouble understanding the above procedure. What is the rt axle boss you are refering to & how is it being moved along the Axle If axle and pich bolts are done up.
"i have found that the Honda HP5 fork oil really seems to mix well with the slick honey "
Ive tried to get hold of the HP5 oil as you have mentioned but they only have the 10wt is this suitable or should I order in the 5wt??
Speci tech recommended the Bel Ray 10wt I can get this locally. How does it compare with the Honda Oil??
Thanks I hope the questions are'nt to silly
this fork has a cool feature , ----the 25mm through axle .
this fork is like a motorcycle.( or any bike with a through axle )
the 25mm axle is torqued to 45" lbs tight up against the left axle boss, ---then the left axle boss pinch bolt is torqued up to 45" lbs,------
now ----your wheel is on --and your bearings are tight, -------now the rt axle boss can float on the axle , you can pull it out ---and you can push it in and it will locate in any position you need it to untill you get the sliders aligned up with the stanchions and get them to move freely .-------generally on the e150 fork ----you will have to pull the rt axle boss out toward the end of the axle and then tighten the pinch bolt to get the lower sliders in alignment with the stanchions,
just leave the rt axle boss pinch bolt loose and slowly move the wheel up and down through the 6" of movement and watch the rt axle boss move in and out on the axle as it tries to self alighn itself .
the magnesium lowers with the fork brace made on the upper part seem to pull the lower bosses in together to close ,-------and when the stanchions go into the lowers it wants to bind on the bushings .
this is real normal on any fork ------and its way worse the more travel you have .
some of the Showa and KYB forks with 13" of travel , ----i will have to oversize the bushings in order to get it all moving smoothly without binding .
this is really hard to do with QR axles ( and --yes they can really be way off and sticky also )------you have to add or subtract washers ( generally machining your own washers ) to the axle bearing build up to get these forks in alignment with the stanchions .
the belray 10 wt is good oil , --for what ever reason the HP5 is just alittle more slippery for this aplication , -------the 10 wt belray is good ----,
the biggest thing that makes these seals really slide on the stanchions , -----1, the alignment,---- 2, the slickhoney on the seals and inbetween the bushings and on the stanchions , ---3, really soaking the packing in fork oil and packing it with honey
and as hard as you can easily ride this bike for hrs at a time these forks and air sleeve in the shock do really get dry in a hurry .
once you get used to keeping it lubed , --it really does not take long !
Fantastic Kelstr now it all makes sense.
Really appreciate your help with the explanation and tips on this. My suspension will be getting regular servicing from now on.
Just as soon as the Slick Honey order arrives.
Yes - a big thanks to Kelstr.
His advice has been fantastic with this fork and has helped guide me through oil changes and re-lubes etc.
I didn't realise at all that the right side fork leg 'floats' on the 25mm axle before you tighten the pinch bolt.
I'll be trying out the realignment this weekend.........
i have really tested many different fluids on many different forks , ----and the fox anti friction fluid will add a ton of stiction when you use it to soak the wipers on an e150.--
Originally Posted by forker
and the smoothest and best fork fluid i have found to work on the e150 is the Honda HP5 fork oil -----hands down.
and the slick honey packed inbetween the bushings and on the seals --( and i stretch the outter garder springs on the fork seals way looser ----they are to tight .)
and on the alignment, -------after you have compleatly cleaned you lowers , -----and soaked the wipers in Honda HP5 ---and added the slick honey ---and loosened the garder springs ,
you turn the bike upsidedown , leave the cartridges out -----and slide the lowers on the stanchion with the ft wheel on ---and you are standing on your handlebars and sliding the wheel and sliders through the 6" of travel -----and you move the rt hand axle in and out alittle at a time untill you find your smoothest spot with the least amount of stiction in the 6" of travel .
it takes some time to find the smoothest spot --------and i have noticed that as the fork breaks in , your location of the smoothest sweet spot will change slightly .
so this is somthing that is just done in normal servicing and keeping any suspension bike in tip top shape .
P.S. -------the fox anti friction fluid also causes stiction in the AFR shock i have noticed , -------i use slick honey there also -------and i will add Honda HP5 in the sleeve to decrease the voloum of the sleeve if need be .
I have done a test, one seal packed with Slick Honey, the other seal packed with Dow Corning # 33 Extreme Low Temp Bearing Grease Light Consistency. The Slick Honey lasted about 5 rides or 10 hours before it was completely gone. The Dow 33 is still going after 3 months of at least 3 rides a week.
what makes the difference is what oil is in the fork that will mix with the grease or thicker lube . ( and you do not want to thick of a lube ---like a grease )
Originally Posted by PB Matrix
thats what is so great about the slick honey -------it is made just for this application and it work and stays in place very well, ------and when you match it up with tha Honda HP5 fork oil ------, the honey and HP5 really become very slick and last a long time .
especially if you store your bike upsidedown --( which we all need to do ) ----and let the HP5 oil run up into the foam packing and work with the slick honey in keeping your seals smooth .
i have one guy Dave --"bioport" is his handle on this site ------and he has an e150 that we did 4 months ago and i see him on the mountain every coupple of weeks or so and his fork is as smooth as the day we did it !!!.
the biggist cause of the stiction is how tight the seal are on the stanchions and the alighnement of the lowers ( this is why i stretch the garder springs out -----or leave them off on some of the really sticky tight seals )
( yes it is possable to have a really tight seal and a nice slippery one ------this is common with all forks )
( i buff off the anodizing on the inside of the fork lower where the seals press in ---and this can help take some pressure off the seals to not be so agressive on the stanchions )
so there are many little things that can really help rid the stiction .
and the Honda HP5 fork oil and the slick honey for the lube is a hard combo to beat !
i have fixed many of these forks and saved them from being set back to warranty and kept the guys riding their bikes and out of the bike shops !!
How about Buzzy's 7 wt oil
Instead of honda HP5, what do you think of Buzzy's 7wt oil? Does it really matter what brand as long as it is the right weight? For the record, I am waiting for a dampening cartridge from specialized, but I slick-honeyed up my fork and rear shock and used Buzzy's 7 wt oil. I haven't gotten a chance to ride it yet (still waiting on the part), but I can already tell a difference. Also, when I took it apart it was bone dry!...wtf
Thanks for all the suggestions.
I can vouch for what Kelstr is saying. I use exactly the products that he recommends, and never have any problems with this fork anymore (And I beat the **** out my bike on national trail every weekend).
i have not used the buzzy's 7 wt 0il ---( as with most suspension oils it is more than likley a repackedged oil from maxima , belray or fox. ---)
Originally Posted by Clint Burke
i will get some tho and try it in some forks and see how it works with buzzy's slick honey .
oils and lubes all work differently with the different DLC and TIN coatings, rubbers and teflon coatings that are in these forks and shocks.
just because an oil or lube is rated good all by itself in the standerd steel ball test , does not mean it will work best for you in your application.
like amzoil, Honda molly and or royal purple synthetic engine oils do not work worth a dam in a race motor ---------.
these oil all by themselves in the steel ball test blow everthing else out of the water --------but in an engine under race conditions these oils fail in 10 to 30 minuets of race time -----( and are compleatly torn out of spec )
the Castrol R Bean oil ( hard to get in usa now) and the Rotella 15W40 Dino oil and the Motul syn oils work the best by far ---------.
so you really need to do alot of testing and oil analists to see what it really going on.
so the weight really does not mean much .--( long story -----and very boring ----and i am short on time right now )
and all oils are not the same -----and some just do not work with some viton and butel rubbers and the different teflon and babbit coated bushings and bearings .
the Fox antifriction lube works great at first , but after a ride or so it starts agressivly attacking the rubber and the nylon wipers and adding alot of stiction.
( it works with the fox bushings and seals ----but not so good with the specialized componets)
and yes ---these suspension componets in all the bikes are alittle dry as delivered , ------
manily because when people see something weeping out their seals they want a warranty fix right away ----( when in all reality you want to see honey oozing out your shock and fork )---
when you do not see any lube on the shock shaft and fork stanchion's ----thats when you need to re-lube .
so you can see that a company need to be very short on lube so as to not have people freak out on the bike ------------,Race guys in the know are going to tear the whole bike down anyway and go all through everything and set it all up -------and these companys also know and understand that as well !!