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  1. #1
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    Custom Chris King Headset on Stumpy

    Just wanted to show off my new custom Chris King headset. No, it doesn't look like anything different fromt the stock headsets. However, if you read my previous thread concerning my CK problems you will understand. Basically the 33.9 diameter headsets do not fit well in 07 Stumpy frames in that my cups moved slightly after riding. After much discussion with Specialized and Chris King I determined the Stumpy headtube diameter is 34.1 so a custom Chris King cup is needed so the headset will fit properly. Those who are running CK headsets should keep an eye on their cups to make sure they aren't moving otherwise you could ovalize your headtube...bad.
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  2. #2
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    Damnit, I think I'm going to have to go that route...

  3. #3
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    Woooow. So I just built my '07 SX Trail (bought as frame), and built using a standard King headset off my old 5-Spot. I saw a comment like yours a few months ago about Specialized using a different sizing standard. I replied with sort of a WTF you talkin' about, and no one else chimed in. Now I hear this. I haven't had any problems, so hopefully for my sake its only with the Stumpy's. Now hearing it again, I still have to ask - WTF, and How TF did this happen in our world of uber standards? I mean really. I think an explanation is in order from Specialized.

    PS - amongst this bashing, I may as well make my official, and first, declaration that my SX Trail rules over my old 5-Spot in every discipline. I've only got a few hours on it so far, but wow...with a Talas 36 on front for adjustability, and some propedal adjustments on the climbs - this thing is the best frame going on the trails today. For the record I had a Pike 454 on the front of the 5-Spot, and it was great...all the other parts are swapped over. So for a couple of extra pounds I got 2x the bike is how I see it.
    My headset better not get in the way of my now perfect fun...........((

  4. #4
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    DId you install the headset yourself? Did it seem to press in a little too easily? I ask because it would be nice to know right away if my frame is affected rather than having to install it then just wait untill my headtube ovalizes. I'll be installing the headset myself, so Im wonding if there is anything to look out for....

    Also, I am REALLY trying to keep up a certain color scheme for my bike. Did you have to choose from "stock" colors? Or did Chris King say they will do any color for you? I gotta have my gold headset.....

  5. #5
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    Nope, theyre only doing black or silver... I know, there go my matching green hubs

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooleymtnbiker1
    Just wanted to show off my new custom Chris King headset. No, it doesn't look like anything different fromt the stock headsets. However, if you read my previous thread concerning my CK problems you will understand. Basically the 33.9 diameter headsets do not fit well in 07 Stumpy frames in that my cups moved slightly after riding. After much discussion with Specialized and Chris King I determined the Stumpy headtube diameter is 34.1 so a custom Chris King cup is needed so the headset will fit properly. Those who are running CK headsets should keep an eye on their cups to make sure they aren't moving otherwise you could ovalize your headtube...bad.
    Didnt you also mention that not EVERY frame was affected by the problem? I have an '07 stumpy pro frame that I built up custom and (to date) I havent noticed my CK headset loose. After I read your previous post I tore down my front and the headset *seemed* pressed in tight.

    Anyway -- so how did you get the headset? Did you just call up CK and ask for the custom stumpy headset?

  7. #7
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    -No I didn't install it myself in that I don't have the expensive press kit made by CK to ensure proper installation

    -The original headset seemed to go in just fine it was only after a few rides that I noticed the cups had shifted a SLIGHT bit. But still I would rather err on side of caution considering frame ovalization

    -I am not a Specialized rep,wish I was, so I dunno if every frame will have a problem. I would just make sure to keep an eye on those cups

    -I had to go through my LBS to get the cups in that they measure the crap out of my stock headset to make sure the oversized headset would fit. Can't call CK and ask for custom anything in that you have to go through a lbs to get anything. They took my old headset, took out the bearing assembly and put it in the custom cups.

  8. #8
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    Ah

    Ah, SAME problem. New 07 Pro frame and a new King headset with the cups going in with easy pressure.

    Bike shop have put in some green locking (expensive?) adhesive and have a promise from the Specialized rep if it does go wrong.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hora
    Ah, SAME problem. New 07 Pro frame and a new King headset with the cups going in with easy pressure.

    Bike shop have put in some green locking (expensive?) adhesive and have a promise from the Specialized rep if it does go wrong.
    Since I was going to be out of town for a week I dropped of my '07 pro frame off @ the LBS before I left to have them investigate it more...sure enough it needed a larger cup size which they ordered from CK. Annoying to say the least...I havent heard yet if this was a "by design" or a mistake on specialized's part. Hopefully I'll be getting my bike back today/tomorrow and I should know more then.

    The "green locking adhesive" seems scary...might want to just have your LBS order you new cups from CK to be safe.

  10. #10
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    For the custom h/set how much more are we talking interms of price?

    Thing is, its abit 'carcrash' as I already bought the new King and the LBS is Peatys ex-mechanic who thinks (I trust him) on the green-stuff. He said its £120 for a tub of this stuff so hopefully it should work (I paid him a couple of quid to sort it with the green-stuff).

    If I was a bystander to all this, beleive me I wouldnt beleive the above would work though.

  11. #11
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    Ante, are you reading this thread? ;o)

  12. #12
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    hmm, correct me if im wrong, but aren't Specialized bike uses internal headset?

  13. #13
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    wheelnot, on certain frames yes but mainly the carbon versions. The Stumpy FSR (non-carbon):
    http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=22221

    (click on "Technical Specifications")

  14. #14
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    thanks, I wonder why carbon got no headset

  15. #15
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    old Air Force trick

    im gonna put a glob of locktite in the seam between the headset and headtube. once it fdries it cracks easily if it shifts due to any movement from the headset. this will indicate if i have movement, if i do, im freaking out and changing it out. do they "upgrade" the cups for unsuspecting victims of WTF?

  16. #16
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    LOCKTITE IS NOT THE ANSWER!! If a headset does not fit, it will ovalize your headtube leaving your with a worthless frame. You all need to make sure you keep the correct sized headset otherwise you could be heading for trouble. One must go through a LBS to get the custom headset and make sure they measure it correctly. My custom headset does not move and fits perfectly.

  17. #17
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    some of us are obviously not having troubles with our headsets. the locktite is not to hold it in place, it is to indicate if there is actually a problem. if you dont like it use wax or something that will break and indicate movement. do i have to show a pic? my shop says mine is correct, but if it moves i want to know. so in some cases locktite is an answer, to the question "how do i know if there is a problem?" ill just leave my 2 cents out. you all have the answers already.

  18. #18
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    I talked to the tech guys at Specialized last week.They said any 2003-and newer model bike has the 34.0mm HT diameter. Then I called CK and they reasured me that Specilaized use's 34.00mm not 34.1mm.I then ordered several of them for my shop at the same price . It just takes them a couple more days to make.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYAN E
    I talked to the tech guys at Specialized last week.They said any 2003-and newer model bike has the 34.0mm HT diameter. Then I called CK and they reasured me that Specilaized use's 34.00mm not 34.1mm.I then ordered several of them for my shop at the same price . It just takes them a couple more days to make.
    Wow, a real answer to this? Are they only doing the black and silver colors?

  20. #20
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    Yes only in those colors because they are custom made in some cases or in others they are oversized.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Student Driver
    Wow, a real answer to this? Are they only doing the black and silver colors?
    I dont know if they come in any colors besides black and silver.

  22. #22
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    King told me only black and silver

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYAN E
    I talked to the tech guys at Specialized last week.They said any 2003-and newer model bike has the 34.0mm HT diameter. Then I called CK and they reasured me that Specilaized use's 34.00mm not 34.1mm.I then ordered several of them for my shop at the same price . It just takes them a couple more days to make.
    I finally got my bike back from the shop today and my LBS told me the same thing about 2003 and up have the large diameter (which I was REALLY surprised to hear).

    Just an an FYI for others who want to get the correct size for your Spec. bikes it does take a bit of time to get in the CK headsets as they (at least for now) are only making them on a per order basis. For me the turn around was over 2 weeks.

    Fairly annoying.....but at least I can hit the trails a bit harder and not worry about destroying my frame.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooleymtnbiker1
    LOCKTITE IS NOT THE ANSWER!! If a headset does not fit, it will ovalize your headtube leaving your with a worthless frame. You all need to make sure you keep the correct sized headset otherwise you could be heading for trouble. One must go through a LBS to get the custom headset and make sure they measure it correctly. My custom headset does not move and fits perfectly.
    SORRY BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO CHIME IN HERE. THERE ARE 2 DIFFERENT TYPES OF GREEN LOCTITE. ONE IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS APPLICATION AND ONE IS NOT. THE GREEN " PENETRATING" LOCTITE IS NOT RECOMMENDED. THE GREEN "609" WOULD BE THE PROPER TYPE TO USE. HERE IS A USEFUL LINK.

    http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/609-EN.pdf

    TO BE HONEST I DON'T BELIEVE HALF OF 1% OF ANYTHING I READ IN HERE BECAUSE MOST OF IT IS HERESAY AND OPINION. I'VE WORKED AS AN AUTOMECHANIC FOR 20 YEARS AND THE LOAD FORCES ARE MUCH HIGHER ON A CAR THAN A BIKE. SO MY "OPINION" COMES FROM WORKING KNOWLEDGE NOT GUESSING.

    HOPE THIS HELPS. LATER....
    Rosa Parks has just been hit with a piece of chicken.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micnap
    SORRY BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO CHIME IN HERE. THERE ARE 2 DIFFERENT TYPES OF GREEN LOCTITE. ONE IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS APPLICATION AND ONE IS NOT. THE GREEN " PENETRATING" LOCTITE IS NOT RECOMMENDED. THE GREEN "609" WOULD BE THE PROPER TYPE TO USE. HERE IS A USEFUL LINK.

    http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/609-EN.pdf

    TO BE HONEST I DON'T BELIEVE HALF OF 1% OF ANYTHING I READ IN HERE BECAUSE MOST OF IT IS HERESAY AND OPINION. I'VE WORKED AS AN AUTOMECHANIC FOR 20 YEARS AND THE LOAD FORCES ARE MUCH HIGHER ON A CAR THAN A BIKE. SO MY "OPINION" COMES FROM WORKING KNOWLEDGE NOT GUESSING.

    HOPE THIS HELPS. LATER....
    umm...I have been working for Oliver's Cycle Sports here in Tampa Florida for 6 years. As far as I know bike mechanics and auto mechanics are quite different things. Fixing a problem by gluing it in place is going to damage a frame not fix the problem.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebula8080
    I finally got my bike back from the shop today and my LBS told me the same thing about 2003 and up have the large diameter (which I was REALLY surprised to hear).

    Just an an FYI for others who want to get the correct size for your Spec. bikes it does take a bit of time to get in the CK headsets as they (at least for now) are only making them on a per order basis. For me the turn around was over 2 weeks.

    Fairly annoying.....but at least I can hit the trails a bit harder and not worry about destroying my frame.
    Sorry to kill an old thread, but why is this a problem with only Chris King headsets? If the diameter of the headtube in a Specialized bike is truly 34mm then wouldn't it affect all headsets, not just Chris King

  27. #27
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    YES....all headsets beside the one that came stock with the bike are affected. Keep an eye on your cups.

  28. #28
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    Old thread, but still good info.

    I put a CK headset on my bike earlier this year, before I saw any info on the headtube being a bigger size. Without removing the CK and measuring the tube, I measure the Cane Creek that came on the bike, and it was ~34.1mm. I haven't seen the CK moving, but this has me worried. Should I mark the bike and the headset and keep checking them to make sure they are lined up? I'm guessing if they stay lined up, then I won't have have an issue. If the Specialized frames use a slightly bigger headset, then that means that Cane Creek, and other companies that supply headsets for them, would have known about this and the info should have been out for awhile now, correct?

  29. #29
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    I would really watch the labels. I lined them up perfectly three times and after a week of riding they would be misaligned. If that happens you should def get the custom cups. I am not the only one with this issue but many just left the stock headsets in there. Not sure on the status of their headtubes now but wouldn't be suprised if they were ovalized. If you call CK and go through a dealer they will make you a custom cupset for 50 bucks.

  30. #30
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    If you still have the old headset I’d swap it out ASAP. The bottom line is the CK cups are too small and you run the real risk of ruining the CK cups or ovalizing the headtube. You can go through CK directly to get the new cups

  31. #31
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    just to clarify, anyone with a stock Cane Creek headset on a Stumpjumper FSR or otherwise should get new cups for their headset?

    If this was the case on '07's, would this not be a recall or warranty issue with Specialzed that they would have dealt with?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by motard5
    just to clarify, anyone with a stock Cane Creek headset on a Stumpjumper FSR or otherwise should get new cups for their headset?

    If this was the case on '07's, would this not be a recall or warranty issue with Specialzed that they would have dealt with?
    There is nothing wrong with the stock headset on a Stumpy FSR. The issue is "upgrading" to a Chris King

  33. #33
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    So if CK's are 33.9 what are other head set measurements? Are Cane CreeK, Race Face, FSA, Hopeand others larger the CK?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13pumps
    So if CK's are 33.9 what are other head set measurements? Are Cane CreeK, Race Face, FSA, Hopeand others larger the CK?
    Not sure, but it's an answer you would want to know before installing an after market headset. Check out the MTBR Stumpjumper Pro reviews for a nightmare story on the problem. http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/xc_full_...t_128556.shtml

  35. #35
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    all headset cups EXCEPT the stock stumpy headset are 33.9. The Stumpjumper is 34.1.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooleymtnbiker1
    all headset cups EXCEPT the stock stumpy headset are 33.9. The Stumpjumper is 34.1.
    Actually, the standard headset is 34.0 to accommodate a headtube bore of 33.9. The Stumpy bore is 34.0 requiring a 34.1 headset cup. This gives an ideal .1 press fit.

  37. #37
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    Can someone point me to some eshop or at least to some info where I can get the custom oversized cups for my Stumpjumper? Thanks

  38. #38
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    You should call the Chis King hq and get info from them in terms of which shop you should go through.

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    I've sent them an email and got a list of eshops doing the international delivery, I need to get it into the Europe. But I cannot find the oversized cups there only the standard size headsets which I already have.

  40. #40
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    Not to be the bearer of bad news, but why get a CK headset at all? Later in life they are known to creak badly. Check the Turner forums. A lot of those guys are switching to CaneCreek headsets. Besides, if you are looking for the bling factor, check this:
    Cane Creek 110 - xpost from Turner

  41. #41
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by tomzz
    I've sent them an email and got a list of eshops doing the international delivery, I need to get it into the Europe. But I cannot find the oversized cups there only the standard size headsets which I already have.
    You need to contact CK hq on the phone. They are EXTREMELY nice and eacy to work with. They will give you the info you need in terms of which shop to go to and how to get it. Should be around $50 US currency.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomzz
    Can someone point me to some eshop or at least to some info where I can get the custom oversized cups for my Stumpjumper? Thanks
    You can just go into your LBS and tell them. I've ordered one, you just have to tell them/King exactly what you want. LBS should be able to take care of it. Otherwise, call Price point or someone big. Cambria, jensens, if you really want to go the mail order route.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Not to be the bearer of bad news, but why get a CK headset at all? Later in life they are known to creak badly. Check the Turner forums. A lot of those guys are switching to CaneCreek headsets. Besides, if you are looking for the bling factor, check this:
    Cane Creek 110 - xpost from Turner
    Nice looking headsets. The question is, do they make them in a special size?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1
    Not to be the bearer of bad news, but why get a CK headset at all? Later in life they are known to creak badly. Check the Turner forums. A lot of those guys are switching to CaneCreek headsets. Besides, if you are looking for the bling factor, check this:
    Cane Creek 110 - xpost from Turner
    Really? I've heard of a couple with a creaking issue due to improper install. King stuff is way expensive, but high on the bling scale too.
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  45. #45
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    LOL! Well, with respect to Cane Creek I sent them an email and you'll love this:

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Will you be making this headset for the 34.0mm head tube on Specialized mountain bikes? I have a 2007 Stumpjumper FSR and I know that it uses this 34.0mm interface and not the standard 33.9mm size. Will you guys be making cups to fit this? Thanks.
    And, I got this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug McCormac [email]DougMac@canecreek.com[/email]
    Peter:

    Is this guy nuts?

    Doug
    Now, I don't know who "Peter" is but I take it he hit "reply" rather than "forward" in his email client. I pointed this out and await his response.
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  46. #46
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    Did you send Doug a link to this thread?? I'm probably going to stick with the HS that came stock on the bike, but it would be nice to have an option.
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  47. #47
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    Yep. I wrote to him that all the "lunatics" are here with this problem. If you like, why don't you shoot him an email reminding him to check the thread out? I thought that making the stock headset would entitle them to know the dimension of our frame's head tube. I guess he didn't get the memo...
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  48. #48
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    Just to be sure, the Stumpjumper head tube internal diameter is 34.0mm, so the 0.1 mm oversize cups (34.1mm) are needed, right?
    Also is there any instruction how to change the bearing into the oversize caps?
    Thanks

  49. #49
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    I would think they use the same sealed bearing as in a standard size. They just mill the external side of the cup to a different, larger, diameter.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomzz
    Just to be sure, the Stumpjumper head tube internal diameter is 34.0mm, so the 0.1 mm oversize cups (34.1mm) are needed, right?
    Also is there any instruction how to change the bearing into the oversize caps?
    Thanks
    Specialized uses the 34.0 HT. Chris King's are 33.9. You want to get the oversized 34.0 King not a 34.1

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RYAN E
    Specialized uses the 34.0 HT. Chris King's are 33.9. You want to get the oversized 34.0 King not a 34.1
    There is certainly confusion on the issue of terminology regarding this problem.

    Standard headtube bore 33.9, standard cup diameter 34.0

    Stumpy headtube bore 34.0, required cup diameter 34.1

    This gives an ideal .1mm press fit
    Last edited by steveccnv; 10-12-2007 at 11:09 AM.

  52. #52
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    I think I found his thread just in time. I'd hate to ruin my new Stumpy frame because of a .1mm discrepancy.
    I have an 08 Stumpy with a King headset. After reading over this thread I became a little concerned. Luckily I happened to take a pic before ever building the bike, when it was just a frame and headset. The before and after pics show some movement in the top cup. I don't know if it's normal though.

    pic1: I took this pic the night I brought home the frame and built it up
    pic2 and 3: After 5 rides, the upper cup has turned clockwise a bit.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  53. #53
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    ya...I would def go with the custom route. Not worth ovalizing a custom frame. There should be no movement whatsoever of the cups once pressed in.

  54. #54
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    Yep, it's an interference fit. It's still strange how some people seem resistant to getting the proper cups made even when they read this before doing anything. Strange.
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  55. #55
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    Is this Stumpy specific? Does anyone know if this would also apply to an '07 Enduro SL?

  56. #56
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    I would imagine so but to be sure have you lbs measure your headtube diameter or watch your ck cups closely. Ovalizing a headtube can be major trouble.

  57. #57
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    As far as I know it affects for all frames done on Taiwan (metric system).

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    I think I found his thread just in time. I'd hate to ruin my new Stumpy frame because of a .1mm discrepancy.
    I have an 08 Stumpy with a King headset. After reading over this thread I became a little concerned. Luckily I happened to take a pic before ever building the bike, when it was just a frame and headset. The before and after pics show some movement in the top cup. I don't know if it's normal though.

    pic1: I took this pic the night I brought home the frame and built it up
    pic2 and 3: After 5 rides, the upper cup has turned clockwise a bit.
    I wish I had remembered this thread dan to tell you in norcal, but I wasn't sure if they continued the problem this year with the 08's. But, there are options. new headseat from king, or send back your current one and get new cups pressed on old bearings.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy_Steve
    I wish I had remembered this thread dan to tell you in norcal, but I wasn't sure if they continued the problem this year with the 08's. But, there are options. new headseat from king, or send back your current one and get new cups pressed on old bearings.
    No problem Steve.
    I've actually removed the King and put in the Cane Creek that was on my 04 Enduro. It seems to have a tighter fit, but I'd prefer to stick with the King long term. Did you get new cups made?

    -Dan

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    No problem Steve.
    I've actually removed the King and put in the Cane Creek that was on my 04 Enduro. It seems to have a tighter fit, but I'd prefer to stick with the King long term. Did you get new cups made?

    -Dan
    I've been contemplating it, but I have a green king to match my hubs, so I've inbetween a few choices. Get new cups, and press it in, cheapest way to go for a king on the bike. But, if I end up selling the frame down the line, the cups will be specific for that frame, and I don't know if alot of people would prefer a green headset on a charcoal frame, ect... Or, get a new headset (black, blue or something) and keep my green one for another bike down the line. Or sell the green and order a dif. color. Or just continue to keep my CC in there until it blows up, and decide then. I can get a new one pretty cheap, so Im not sure wether I should sell my green one and buy a dif. color, or just leave it for now. Short questions reveal longer answers, sorry! Anyway, what's your plan?

  61. #61
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    Clearing things up...hopefully

    Greetings from Cane Creek.

    I am posting this with the hope of clearing up some misunderstandings regarding headsets, head tube specifications, and industry standards regarding the two.

    1) The industry standard for 1-1/8” threadless headsets is as follows:
    Head Tube ID (mm): 33.90 – 33.95*
    Headset Cup insertion OD (mm): 34.05* – 34.15
    A range is specified (known as the tolerance) since it impossible to manufacture to exact dimensions. These dimensions and tolerances yield:
    Headset Interference fit: 0.10*-0.25mm
    * bold values are target values with tolerance ranges falling in the direction of increased interference.

    This industry standard is published in Sutherlands Handbook for Bicycle Mechanics (available for reference at most bike shops) and also online for free from Cane Creek at:
    http://www.canecreek.com/fileadmin/c...pecs_rev_C.pdf

    This is the same standard provided to frame and fork manufactures, including Specialized.

    2) In researching the issue with 2007 Stumpjumpers frames, I communicated directly with Specialized’s Product manager for Mountain Bikes (He is at the top of the food chain there when it comes to bike spec). He writes,“No, we do not do anything tricky with our HS’s…we do not have our own spec like the Internet Chat rooms would like to believe.” “Again, we do not have a non-std spec.”

    So to be clear:
    - Regardless of what “tech guys at Specialized” have said, Specialized did not intentionally specify Stumpjumper head tubes with 34.00mm bores (see above for proof).
    - Nor has Specialized created a new “Metric Standard” head tube bore of 34.00mm. First, the industry standard is already metric (33.90mm-33.95mm). Second, to be a standard (by definition) it has to be accepted by the industry as such. Having a single frame model made by a single manufacture use a head tube bore that is 0.05mm different from an existing standard is an example of nonstandard.

    3) Despite the 34.00mm head tube bore, it appears that headsets that came stock on 2007 Stumpjumper frames do meet the Cane Creek cup insertion OD of 34.05mm-34.15mm. These headsets are reported to work fine with these frames. It stands to reason that other headsets that meet the same cup insertion spec (34.05-34.15), which is all Cane Creek 1-1/8” headsets, will also work in these frames. This includes the new Cane Creek 110 headset.

    4) King Components 1-1/8” aluminum headsets have a target Cup Insertion OD of: 34.0mm and recommends the following:
    Head Tube ID: 33.9mm
    Maximum Interference fit: 0.1mm

    These values are available online for free at:
    http://www.chrisking.com/specs/headsets_all.html
    King’s target specification for Cup Insertion OD is outside of the industry standard. However, since no tolerances are provided on either the press fit or the Head Tube ID, it is not clear what constitutes a proper head tube bore for CK headsets. However, evidence suggests (by the tens of thousands of frames that are manufactured to Cane Creek standard that use King 1-1/8” headsets) that frames with head tubes manufactured to the Cane Creek standard (from the factory or by using widely available frame finishing tools) provides an appropriate interference fit.

    Note that the “custom” CK headset (with 34.10mm cup insertion OD) meets the industry standard.

    Addressing specific questions:
    Q- If the Specialized frames use a slightly bigger headset, then that means that Cane Creek, and other companies that supply headsets for them, would have known about this and the info should have been out for awhile now, correct?
    A- No. First, Specialized doesn’t use slightly bigger headsets. The headsets that came with the bikes meet the industry standard (see above). Second, Cane Creek and manufacturers that supply OEM customers (like Specialized) on behalf of Cane Creek supply headsets manufactured to the industry standards. If headsets that meet this standard are specified (like the one 1-1/8” headsets in question here) then frames are made to fit headsets, not the other way around.

    Q- So if CK's are 33.9 what are other head set measurements? Are Cane CreeK, Race Face, FSA, Hopeand others larger the CK?
    A-.Since CK does not specify tolerances it is not clear if CK cup insertion OD is always smaller than the standard. From the issues with 07 Stumpjumpers, it certainly appears that CK manufactures headsets with cup insertion OD that is, on the average, smaller than other headset manufacturers.

    Q- Nice looking headsets (in reference to Cane Creek’s 110 Headset). The question is, do they make them in a special size?
    A- The standard size for all Cane Creek headsets is the industry standard, same as the headset that came with your bike. The 110 headset, any Cane Creek headset, or any other headset besides the “standard” CK will fit fine. Note that the “custom” CK headset (with 34.10mm cup insertion OD) meets the industry standard.

    Hope this helps.

  62. #62
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    Sweet. This is a much better response than the email I got originally. I figured throwing the link to this would precipitate a better response eventually...
    1997 Specialized Stumpy Pro
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  63. #63
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    “Clearing things up...hopefully”

    So, what you have confirmed is that if you want to run a CK headset you need the larger cups. Of course, we already figured this out, some people the hard way. Also, if you want to run any other high end headset it will work as long as by chance you don't get one at the low end of the tolerance scale. For example, a Stumpy headtube bore of 34mm with a headset cup of 34.05mm would only yield an interference fit of .05mm, workable perhaps, but not ideal. Still, the safest bet for an upgrade is a CK with larger cups.

  64. #64
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    Well, I like how the "standard" CK headset cup is actually not standard at all, and that the OD of the cup should be .05mm larger at a minimum to facilitate a stronger interference fit. Now that's interesting. So, there is a possibility that you might find a CK headset that will fit due to manufacturing tolerances. I think I would prefer to get the "oversize" (well, not that oversize at all apparently) one and be sure about it.
    1997 Specialized Stumpy Pro
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  65. #65
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    Thanks for clearing it all up. Still doesn't change the fact the Normal CK headsets will shift in the headtube for whatever reason. All I know is that my LBS and I measured the headtube and it measured 34.1 meaning it's different slightly from the normal 33.9

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooleymtnbiker1
    Thanks for clearing it all up. Still doesn't change the fact the Normal CK headsets will shift in the headtube for whatever reason. All I know is that my LBS and I measured the headtube and it measured 34.1 meaning it's different slightly from the normal 33.9
    It measured 34.1 or 34.0 requiring the 34.1 cup OD?
    1997 Specialized Stumpy Pro
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    A couple of more comment’s…

    First, I wrote CC on this issue and they told me they didn’t make the headset for the Stumpy that they just had the patent and it was probably made by FSA. I then wrote FSA and never got a response.

    Second, I suspect CK has tighter tolerances than the “loose” standard of .1mm. Otherwise it would be theoretically possible to order an oversized CK headset and have it be exactly the same size as their standard headset.

  68. #68
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    Well, reading the document he provided would indicate that a headtube measurement of 34.0 would still be outside of the tolerance proposed on page 4. It reads a tolerance 33.90 to 33.95 (as does his post), which is probably would CK is shooting for as well. So, if they are all at 34.0mm, wouldn't that fall into the definition of nonstandard as previously described? I guess I will have the vendor pull out the headset and measure it before I will buy it so I can avoid this in my future. Or, simply order a headset that meets 34.1mm on the nose and not worry about it. Fun.
    1997 Specialized Stumpy Pro
    1998 Specialized Allez Epic
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  69. #69
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    It all comes down to the fact the more and more companies, espcially Specialized, are using propritery parts. It makes it that much more difficult to make the bike your own. You are stuck with parts from the company which is not always a bad thing but when it is, what are we consumers to do. I also want to make my Specialized different and perform better then other bikes so I want the ability to do so. I should not have to go though all this trouble to put a headset in.

  70. #70
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    Wait a minute. Is it possible that the bigger Cane Creek units, that come stock, stretched out the head tube to a point that it will only "return" to approximately 34.0mm when the headset is removed? Could it be that the frame is actually made to 33.9mm initially, and that the larger headset is creating this "issue" with many of the CK headset found in the field? I don't think this is much of an issue with steel, but could this be happening with the aluminum frames?
    1997 Specialized Stumpy Pro
    1998 Specialized Allez Epic
    2007 Specialized Stumpy FSR Elite
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  71. #71
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    I think it is simply a matter of a slightly oversized headtube matched with a slightly undersized cup, according to standards. Then given the tolerances you occasionally get a non press fit and an ovalized headtube. But that won’t happen to us. I fact I just received my new CK cups and they are a little bigger than the old ones as measured with a caliper.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Student Driver
    Wait a minute. Is it possible that the bigger Cane Creek units, that come stock, stretched out the head tube to a point that it will only "return" to approximately 34.0mm when the headset is removed? Could it be that the frame is actually made to 33.9mm initially, and that the larger headset is creating this "issue" with many of the CK headset found in the field? I don't think this is much of an issue with steel, but could this be happening with the aluminum frames?
    My frame was brand new when the King headset was put in it, so there was no chance of "stretching" it with a CC.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    My frame was brand new when the King headset was put in it, so there was no chance of "stretching" it with a CC.
    This is what I was looking for. So, it did not come with a headset pressed in to it? What did it measure at?

    As far as sitting on the outside of tolerances, it appears that 34.0 is completely outside of the 33.90-33.95 tolerance. Typically, in a manufacturing scenario, if that was the range then the quality department would give manufacturing a working range of something like 33.915 to 33.935. If they start falling outside of that, the process would be examined. In the case of tooling wear, they might order maintenance of the tool (or a replacement) to deal with it immediately. If it appears to be a short-lived item (such as a gizmo at the end of its production lifecycle) they might either shift or expand the range of production tolerance to allow for the new parts to stay within the company's tolerances. In any case, the part should still fall within the 33.90-33.95 measurement and be acceptable for sale. At least, that's how an automotive component manufacturer where I worked at did it, and they followed US and international quality standards.
    1997 Specialized Stumpy Pro
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Student Driver
    This is what I was looking for. So, it did not come with a headset pressed in to it? What did it measure at?
    The LBS pressed it in for me before I ever saw the frame, so it was never measured as far as I know. But they did do the routine headset facing that they have done on hundreds of bikes.

  75. #75
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    That was excellent stuff from JC_CC! Bottom line is measure before you install and make sure you have the proper interferance fit. If you already have a CK installed just put slippage marks on the cups and frame and monitor it after rides. Slippage marks are used many places in aviation to monitor bearing races, lines and so on. It works there and will certainly show movement in this scenario. That is what I did on my SJ Pro and no movement after the several rides with lots of bumps, jumps and drops.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13pumps
    That was excellent stuff from JC_CC! Bottom line is measure before you install and make sure you have the proper interferance fit. If you already have a CK installed just put slippage marks on the cups and frame and monitor it after rides. Slippage marks are used many places in aviation to monitor bearing races, lines and so on. It works there and will certainly show movement in this scenario. That is what I did on my SJ Pro and no movement after the several rides with lots of bumps, jumps and drops.
    this is the locktite scenario im talking about. great tool.

  77. #77
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    Is this problem on the 06 SX Trail?

    Hi have a 2006 SX Trail II. Looking to get a new headset. Is this issue only on the Stumpys or is this also on the SX Trail?

  78. #78
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    I am contemplating using 07 stumpy pro frame as my next build and stumbled onto this thread. My question is would I be better off using a oem headset (assuming I can find one), or just ordering the custom CK cups to fit the stumpy. I only ask seeing as I don't currently have a headset for the bike and will need to aquire one, plus I have found a good price on a lightly used headset in the wheelsforlife (rasta) colors.

  79. #79
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    In order to avoid a huge hassle, I would opt for the custom cups. You have to go through a LBS to get them but this way they can measure them and ensure the cups you get will work.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooleymtnbiker1
    umm...I have been working for Oliver's Cycle Sports here in Tampa Florida for 6 years. As far as I know bike mechanics and auto mechanics are quite different things. Fixing a problem by gluing it in place is going to damage a frame not fix the problem.

    oooh, 6 years. go get em there expert.

    from another car mechanic turned bike mechanic (and a bit more than you), the green stuff will work.

    then again, so will carbon fiber. but thats a bit harder.

    bikes are not rocket science boys.
    Steel is Real: www.advocatecycles.com
    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    I think I found his thread just in time. I'd hate to ruin my new Stumpy frame because of a .1mm discrepancy.
    I have an 08 Stumpy with a King headset. After reading over this thread I became a little concerned. Luckily I happened to take a pic before ever building the bike, when it was just a frame and headset. The before and after pics show some movement in the top cup. I don't know if it's normal though.

    pic1: I took this pic the night I brought home the frame and built it up
    pic2 and 3: After 5 rides, the upper cup has turned clockwise a bit.
    Reviving an old thread, but I decided to try the King headset again. Here's what I get:
    <embed src='http://www.brightcove.tv/playerswf' bgcolor='#FFFFFF' flashVars='allowFullScreen=true&initVideoId=163257 1529&servicesURL=http://www.brightcove.tv&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://www.brightcove.tv&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&autoStart=false' base='http://admin.brightcove.com' name='bcPlayer' width='486' height='412' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always' seamlesstabbing='false' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' swLiveConnect='true' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash'></embed>

    Already working with the LBS on a replacement, but thought I'd share.
    Tools not required

  82. #82
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    you should measure any part you are installing on anything ---( and you need to do it not the local bike shop )
    i am in aviation , automotive and build race motocross and supercross bikes and i have for over 40 years ,----
    and i will get parts all the time that are not quite correct .
    i am very picky on how parts fit ( especially press fit parts )
    i can not believe a guy will just buy a part and slam it in ------this is asking for disaster .

    i have had many head sets that were not quite correct , ------you can get a cup that is slightly small , and a head tube that is slightly large ---------now you have a problem .

    its up to the guy building the bike or aircraft to make sure its all perfect.

    there are way to many variables in the manufacturing process to think that its all going to fit correctly when you start assembling ------

    you guys that build your oun bikes need to get used to checking and doubble checking everything yourselves to get it perfect .

    it is what it is and its always been this way

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by zubster89
    Sorry to kill an old thread, but why is this a problem with only Chris King headsets? If the diameter of the headtube in a Specialized bike is truly 34mm then wouldn't it affect all headsets, not just Chris King

    King has really tight standards. Specialized uses a very slightly larger headtube (maybe to accomodate multiple sizes of companies making a "sloppier" product). So it creates a bit of extra space, you'll hear it more than feel it... it sounds like a weird creak in the front end.

    And to make a correction, the larger cup King headset is by no means custom. Custom would mean that it's all made just for you and no one else to your specs. While the larger cup headset is not openly advertised, King has been doing these for quite a while now.

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