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  1. #1
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    Listen! Corporate sabotage??? Who has the best engineers???

    Well not quite but Specializedís obviously knows there are better engineers than their own. I couldn't see if anyone else had put this up here so I thought I would.

    THEY KNOW

    Click on the link to see Mike Sinyardís letter to the Cannondale engineers.


    Last edited by EGF168; 02-20-2008 at 06:15 AM.

  2. #2
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    I have to say I was expecting uproar, this needs your attention, you should stand by your chosen manufacturer, Specialized needs your help, poaching engineers from other companies has suddenly stated to backfire on them.



    Iíd also like to draw your attention to this thread and photographic evidence:

    Where to find the best bike engineers...





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    engineers for cannondale

    we will have to see how much the engineers at cannondale like working for pacific cycle who just bought them.

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    Dorel are who actually just bought Cannondale. Pacific cycles is part of Dorel. I sincerely doubt weather anything will change. I suspect Cannondale will have more money to fund their activities though. I know they are going to split Cannondale into 2 parts, the value end and the top end stuff. It will be a few yrs before you notice any difference as they are just about to bring out the new Rize and Moto so they get a couple of yrs to design new bikes and see if we notice the difference.

  5. #5
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Dorel are who actually just bought Cannondale. Pacific cycles is part of Dorel. I sincerely doubt weather anything will change. I suspect Cannondale will have more money to fund their activities though. I know they are going to split Cannondale into 2 parts, the value end and the top end stuff. It will be a few yrs before you notice any difference as they are just about to bring out the new Rize and Moto so they get a couple of yrs to design new bikes and see if we notice the difference.
    Good Point EGF!!

  6. #6
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Dorel are who actually just bought Cannondale. Pacific cycles is part of Dorel. I sincerely doubt weather anything will change. I suspect Cannondale will have more money to fund their activities though. I know they are going to split Cannondale into 2 parts, the value end and the top end stuff. It will be a few yrs before you notice any difference as they are just about to bring out the new Rize and Moto so they get a couple of yrs to design new bikes and see if we notice the difference.
    Good Point EGF!!
    Dorel made the purchase of Cannondale and striped Pacific (mass) of any IBD responsabilities. Will things change for C'dale, yes of course it will. Is status que a good thing? Hell NO! But one can only assume that changes will not be drastic nor immediate if Dorel wants to see a return on their $200million purchase. Dorel bought C'Dale cause they Kick Ass not because they are some floundering merger gone bad.

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    Specialized or Special Lies

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    I donít see what the big deal is. This happens all the time in all industries when ownership of a company changes. Iíve been called many times when the companies I worked for went through changes. Iíve also called friends of mine when their companies went through changes. Itís business, donít read too much into what Specialized is doing.

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    Oh, man, lets be comprehensive to them... They lack experience, so I think Specialized just wanted some Leftys to put in the place of their failing E-150 Future Shocks (is this what future holds? What a shock! ). Was that, or they really wanted to know how to build a good bike. But personally, I just think they wanted new friends!

    FULL FORCE AHEAD, SPECIALIZED!!!!

  10. #10
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    This is what we call business,,,,,,, even simpletons know this. Specialized rules!
    I'm GNARcissistic

  11. #11
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    OMG!!!! Specialized is looking to hire talented people to work for it?!??! ALERT THE MEDIA!
    :wq

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    I think there is a right way and a wrong way to go after a competitors employees, and the Specialized way is definitely the wrong way! I couldnít imagine my companyís HR department sending emails with our letterhead to our competitorís employees, or vise versa. This is usually done with third party recruiters. Considering how quickly they take legal action against others, their legal department should know better (assuming their attorneys cleared those emails). I really wouldnít be surprised if Cannondale pursued legal action against Specialized on this one. The folks at Specialized either have really big balls or are really stupid. Maybe both. What a shame, because they really do have some nice bikes.

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    Yes, I agree that there is a right way and a wrong way to get new people in. No other bike company would try this crap so why does Specialized do it and then think they can get away with it. Generally most bike manufactures get along with each other and don’t try any of the rubbish Specialized does. It’s not just this that has annoyed me, there’s a lot of good European bike that cant be sold in the US because Specialized doesn’t want competition in the Horst link market, Lapierre and Scott are examples, Scott has now been forced to use an inferior suspension system on the rear of their Spark because they needed to sell bikes in the US.
    Last edited by EGF168; 02-22-2008 at 10:59 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Yes, I agree that there is a right way and a wrong way to get new people in. No other bike company would try this crap so why does Specialized do it and then think they can get away with it. Generally most bike manufactures get along with each other and donít try any of the rubbish Specialized does. Itís not just this that has annoyed me, thereís a lot of good European bike that cant be sold in the US because Specialized doesnít want competition in the Horst link market, Lapierre and Scott are examples, Scott has now bee forced to use an inferior suspension system on the rear of their Spark because they needed to sell bikes in the US.
    I wouldn't use the word forced. Specialized has the patent and anyone is free to use it, if they pay for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demodude
    This is what we call business,,,,,,, even simpletons know this.
    Well I know some one over at Smaller Bike Manufacturing set up in the Boston area , and he was telling me how, they had received a couple of Resume from Cannondale employees.
    I'm Better known as Splat

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSQ
    I wouldn't use the word forced. Specialized has the patent and anyone is free to use it, if they pay for it.
    Not exactly. While some MFRs would design and build bikes using the Horst Link location and worry about the licensing fees (and lawsuits) after the fact, this was not the case with Scott.

    Upon returning to the US marketplace, Scott actually approached Specialized directly, offered upfront to license and pay for the use of the HL, in order to sell their Genius bikes stateside. Specialized simply said, "No thanks," and refused to license its use to Scott.

    Interestingly enough, the US is the only market where the HL patent applies.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dje31
    Not exactly. While some MFRs would design and build bikes using the Horst Link location and worry about the licensing fees (and lawsuits) after the fact, this was not the case with Scott.

    Upon returning to the US marketplace, Scott actually approached Specialized directly, offered upfront to license and pay for the use of the HL, in order to sell their Genius bikes stateside. Specialized simply said, "No thanks," and refused to license its use to Scott.

    Interestingly enough, the US is the only market where the HL patent applies.
    And the problem is?

  18. #18
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    The problem is that Scott know how to build better bikes than Specialized but is being forced not to for various reason by Specialized. Another example is Lapierre, SC & Intense made it pretty clear that they wouldnít be licensing the VPP system out which explains why there are no X-controlís in the US but they were actually quite close to signing a Horst link contract when the brought out the new Zesty and Spicy line of bike when Spesh walked out on the deal meaning they couldnít sell their bikes in the US.

    All that left for me to say is look at the size of this unlicensed Horst link:



  19. #19
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    So, you're butthurt because:

    1. A. A company has a legal right to a design (they purchased and followed the proper legal channels to own it)
    2. B. Because they want to protect their interests in one of their largest markets, they won't allow competitors in who would use their legally licensed product
    3. C. All of the above


    Please select the answer that most closely matches your whine.
    :wq

  20. #20
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    No, now you are just being childish, of course this isnít the whole reason why I dislike the company, itís just one of many that add up to make me dislike Spesh. If you come up with your own design I think you should be able to do what you like with it. But Spesh is not the original owner of the Horst link so I believe they should have no right to guard it like some frightened child trying to stop other companies using it because they are scared they cant make better bikes.

    In case your wondering, from when I started this thread, I do actually own a Specialized and a Cannondale.

  21. #21
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    Actually its more their ethics and how they are not a nice company that pisses me off.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    No, now you are just being childish, of course this isnít the whole reason why I dislike the company, itís just one of many that add up to make me dislike Spesh. If you come up with your own design I think you should be able to do what you like with it. But Spesh is not the original owner of the Horst link so I believe they should have no right to guard it like some frightened child trying to stop other companies using it because they are scared they cant make better bikes.

    In case your wondering, from when I started this thread, I do actually own a Specialized and a Cannondale.
    They paid for the licensing to the product. They own it. They're just protecting their market share from competition - it doesn't mean other companies do, don't, could or couldn't make better bikes. It's just corporate politics.
    :wq

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Actually its more their ethics and how they are not a nice company that pisses me off.
    Come on. They're just competitive.

    What about all the awards they win - sustainability, the good things they do for the environment and are recognized for, helping IBDs in Africa, etc, etc? There's two sides to every story and I'm sure the other bike manufacturers are just as "mean" from time-to-time. It just seems like it's popular to hate spesh.
    :wq

  24. #24
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    Bothered!

    If you cast you eyeballs towards my user name you will see I am now boycotting Specialized, my next bike will almost certainly be a Cannondale Rize 4 European model in white with white Hayes Strokerís.

    If I want to help Africa I will buy a Kona or get some fair trade coffee.

  25. #25
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    Happy boycotting
    :wq

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    But Spesh is not the original owner of the Horst link so I believe they should have no right to guard it like some frightened child trying to stop other companies using it because they are scared they cant make better bikes.

    In case your wondering, from when I started this thread, I do actually own a Specialized and a Cannondale.
    Specialized hired Leitner to come up with a new suspension design that met several goals-he came up with the Horst link. A couple of years later they bought the patent from Leitner.

    So let me get this straight; they paid to have it created, then paid to secure the rights to it, but they are the bad guys for protecting their investment?

  27. #27
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    That has nothing to do with why I donít like them, sure protect your investment, but as I have said earlier you shouldnít pull out of deals at the last minute. Also perhaps you havenít noticed but several times now a Specialized dealer has switched to another brand, guess what Spesh does, they open up a concept store only a few streets away. I have found their customer service to be nothing short of abysmal, I mean really abysmal, passing the buck like crazy is not considered to be customer service where I live. They have also forced Fox to stop making their Terralogic forks because they have slightly similar technologies to the Brain which was also originally designed by Fox but Spesh stabbed them in the back with lawyers. They lean very heavily on US products, now that would be fine if they worked. They at one point were buying up all the web domains of their competitors so you went to the company you wanted and you ended up at Specialized.com. Cannondale came out with the BB30 several yrs ago and let any company use it so long as they used the BB30 logo and name, but no Spesh says it is their creation and wont put the logo and name onto their road bikes that have the BB30. Most of the cycling industry supports each other and just gets on with it, but Spesh does everything it can to undermine and hinder itís competitors, no other company does this. They have no respect for other manufacturers and or their customers, as I found out they are very helpful if they can see a gain through it like fixing problems with their own brand suspension which will make them sell more in the future and keep allot of customers but as soon as someone with less wide spread problems comes along they donít want to know about it. All they know how to do is hide behind lawyers just like my neighbours, and they didnít end up happy, they got a massive bill from the lawyers and a farm roller parked across their driveway for 2 weeks (Iím not a farmer). My final point is that Specialized are just a big company with too much money that are getting scared, they know that Ibis, Giant, Cannondale, Trek and allot of other companies are easily coming out with better bikes.

    I would have broken this up into paragraphs for you but it would be wasted as you wouldnít enjoy the read anyway.

    I will indeed be enjoying my boycott of Specialized, itís a real shame I made the mistake of buying one of their bikes before knew the truth and what crap kit came on the bike, the kit probably isnít even that crap, itís probably Spesh sending out kit that they have pre-broken for you.



  28. #28
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    It's popular to hate big companies.
    LS

  29. #29
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    I may as well join the club then.

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    Didn't C dale trademark the word "freeride" at one point to keep other companies from using it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K
    Didn't C dale trademark the word "freeride" at one point to keep other companies from using it?
    Yep

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K
    Didn't C dale trademark the word "freeride" at one point to keep other companies from using it?
    That's not very nice.

    /me boycotts cannondale.
    :wq

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    That has nothing to do with why I donít like them, sure protect your investment, but as I have said earlier you shouldnít pull out of deals at the last minute. Also perhaps you havenít noticed but several times now a Specialized dealer has switched to another brand, guess what Spesh does, they open up a concept store only a few streets away. I have found their customer service to be nothing short of abysmal, I mean really abysmal, passing the buck like crazy is not considered to be customer service where I live. They have also forced Fox to stop making their Terralogic forks because they have slightly similar technologies to the Brain which was also originally designed by Fox but Spesh stabbed them in the back with lawyers. They lean very heavily on US products, now that would be fine if they worked. They at one point were buying up all the web domains of their competitors so you went to the company you wanted and you ended up at Specialized.com. Cannondale came out with the BB30 several yrs ago and let any company use it so long as they used the BB30 logo and name, but no Spesh says it is their creation and wont put the logo and name onto their road bikes that have the BB30. Most of the cycling industry supports each other and just gets on with it, but Spesh does everything it can to undermine and hinder itís competitors, no other company does this. They have no respect for other manufacturers and or their customers, as I found out they are very helpful if they can see a gain through it like fixing problems with their own brand suspension which will make them sell more in the future and keep allot of customers but as soon as someone with less wide spread problems comes along they donít want to know about it. All they know how to do is hide behind lawyers just like my neighbours, and they didnít end up happy, they got a massive bill from the lawyers and a farm roller parked across their driveway for 2 weeks (Iím not a farmer). My final point is that Specialized are just a big company with too much money that are getting scared, they know that Ibis, Giant, Cannondale, Trek and allot of other companies are easily coming out with better bikes.

    I would have broken this up into paragraphs for you but it would be wasted as you wouldnít enjoy the read anyway.

    I will indeed be enjoying my boycott of Specialized, itís a real shame I made the mistake of buying one of their bikes before knew the truth and what crap kit came on the bike, the kit probably isnít even that crap, itís probably Spesh sending out kit that they have pre-broken for you.


    I still don't get your "protecting their market share means they're scared because other companies build better bikes" argument, but whatever.
    :wq

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    Well let's set the record straight about Fox and Specialized...Mike Andrews (who worked for Fox) who NOW works for Specialized designing their shocks and forks designed the BRAIN shock for the original 2003 Epic...when he was working for Specialized.

    I'll break it down....
    Mike Andrews designs the BRAIN shock...while working for Specialized.
    Mike Andrews works for Fox after leaving Specialized.
    Mike Andrews returns to work for Specialized in 2006.

    Hope that makes sense. BTW I love my 2008 SJ FSR PRO with the AFR shock in the rear. Light years ahead of the Fox remote BRAIN on the 06 and 07 models.

    Word...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by nachomc
    I still don't get your "protecting their market share means they're scared because other companies build better bikes" argument, but whatever.
    That statement completely misses the point, I think somewhere deep down you do understand what I am trying to say.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    That statement completely misses the point, I think somewhere deep down you do understand what I am trying to say.
    He's saying that Specialized has a long straw, and they're drinking Cannondales's milkshake. They drink it up!

  37. #37
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    That picture looks photoshoped.

  38. #38
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    EGF168:
    First: if the deal is a bad one you should always pull out whether its the last minute or not, to do otherwise would be a sign of idiocy--- i have some sweet lakefront property if your interested.

    BB30 is pretty bad example of Cannondale allowing others to use what they develop. BB30 is not really in the same league as far as bicycle developments go as the horst link is. Would Cannondale allow me to make my own version of the scalpel and it to market as long as I put the Cannondale moniker on the rear end? Of course not I would probably get a very nasty "cease and desist" letter wouldn't I? What if I wanted to make a "head shock?" Cdale would not allow me or anyone to use any development that makes them money without purchasing the liscense from them--just like Merlin does/did with the head shocks.

    If you have a problem with Spesh because they enforce the patents they own then you also should have the same problem with Cdale.

    If you dislike a company and your reasons apply to others, but you choose not to hate them then you are just a hater and you should state that rather than try to feed us all a bunch of bullpuckey.

  39. #39
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    Once again some idiot misses the point of what I was saying and changed what I have said to suit himself.

    Neither company I spoke of could have know that it was a bad deal.

    Once again I think you fully understand what I have said and have subconsciously failed to notice the main reason why I donít like them which I berried in post 2 on this page.

  40. #40
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    If you are boycotting spesh why don't you stay off this forum then! good bye

  41. #41
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    ER! And whoís going to stop me, as you may have noticed I have a Specialized and therefore as long as I donít cause problems on any threads apart from my own I have just as much right to be here as you do.

    Itís always nice to see someone new who thinks they can roll up and usurp you.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Once again some idiot misses the point of what I was saying and changed what I have said to suit himself.
    Oooooh, resorting to personal attacks. Way to get your point across.

    d12294: Basically, EGF has said he doesn't like Specialized because of:

    1) Their ethics
    2) Not a nice company

    Yet everything he's talked about so far as reasons that they are:

    1) Unethical
    2) Mean

    has been about Specialized enforcing their patents. Thus, you have been led to believe that Specialized is:

    1) Unethical
    2) Mean

    Because Specialized:

    1) Enforces their patents

    Which means:

    1) EGF doesn't understand how patent law works
    2) Doesn't understand the actual history behind the reasons he's listed that they are both unethical and mean.

    Past that, he hasn't said much and will not respond to any questions as to his reasoning with anything other than "I think you know what I mean." This leads me to believe he is:

    1) Uninformed
    2) Has no facts that support his claim
    3) Will resort to personal attacks henceforth.
    :wq

  43. #43
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    I wouldnít call that a personal attack, every one gats called an idiot some when, unless you have lead a very sheltered existence in a beech hut.

    I understand fine how the patent law works, having filed one with my dad a few yrs ago.

    You havenít actually posted any questions, just comments.

    All the reasons I have given are true and accurate.

    If you had received customer service like I had (which I notice is the only point you are ignoring) you would also hate Specialized and boycott them.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    I wouldnít call that a personal attack, every one gats called an idiot some when, unless you have lead a very sheltered existence in a beech hut.


    wow

    If you had received customer service like I had (which I notice is the only point you are ignoring) you would also hate Specialized and boycott them.
    OK, you had bad customer service. Sell your Specialized and move on. After all, there are so many better bikes out there, and Specialized are a bunch of unethical meanie-heads.
    :wq

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nachomc
    OK, you had bad customer service. Sell your Specialized and move on. After all, there are so many better bikes out there, and Specialized are a bunch of unethical meanie-heads.
    I completely agree with you and am in the process of doing just as you suggest, with the exception that I wont sell the bike as I have spent allot of money getting it ride able from itĎs stock condition and it now rides nicely.

    Cannondale Rize 4
    Marin MtVision
    Trek Fuel EX9
    Lapierre X-control

    Most of them I would make some changes to the kit, what do you think of those?

  46. #46
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    I haven't ridden any of those . I used to be a huge fan of Marin but didn't like the last one I had, and don't like the look of their current line. The Rize looks cool and I like the Treks.

    I want the Fisher Superfly
    :wq

  47. #47
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    Fisher Superfly you say? Those are nice, this is the nicest I have seen so far:

    SuperFly Update with new Orange bits and a diet...

    Itís a bit of odd dilemma with those bikes I have chosen, for me the ride will likely be best on the Trek, however I want a simple/clean rear end like the Dale or Marin because there is so much mud where I live, the mud has completely trashed the seat stay arch on my Stumpy, I am sure the Lapierre will surprise me how good it is, but the Dale is still my favourite but I havenít ridden it and I need to find out if my chosen dealer can actually get a Cannondale.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by nachomc
    Come on. They're just competitive.

    What about all the awards they win - sustainability, the good things they do for the environment and are recognized for, helping IBDs in Africa, etc, etc? There's two sides to every story and I'm sure the other bike manufacturers are just as "mean" from time-to-time. It just seems like it's popular to hate spesh.
    Follow up to your comments about Africa, just read this, I told you Kona was helping Africa: http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=2737

  49. #49
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    Since when is trying to recruit employees from a competitor sabotage? Nothing unethical about it.

    Stealing documents, marketing information, engineering information, mucking with production...unethical.

    Offering someone a job not.

    What bike you own has absolutely is not relation to who you are as a person. Buy a bike and then learn how to ride it.

  50. #50
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    Uhmmm, can you say DOCTORED SCREEN?

    At least make the fonts look like the rest of the screen. Photoshop offers all sorts of classes on line to help your pictures look the best they possibly can.

    Amature....

    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    I have to say I was expecting uproar, this needs your attention, you should stand by your chosen manufacturer, Specialized needs your help, poaching engineers from other companies has suddenly stated to backfire on them.



    Iíd also like to draw your attention to this thread and photographic evidence:

    Where to find the best bike engineers...





  51. #51
    hummm! should I?
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    EGF:

    I quess that I am that "some idiot" who missed your your point in #2 on this page but I wasn't responding to the points you made in #2 on this page but to the points you made in #5. If you don't want people to respond to what you write then you ought to start your posts with something like: "If you are thinking of responding to what I am about to write don't because if you do then you miss the point I made in an earlier post which means you are some idiot." So from now on you should just keep reposting your earlier posts so that none of us make the idiotic mistake of reading something in which you are not making any points.

    You were the one who gave an example of the bad ethics, not me. I only pointed out that the example wasn't a good one. so far you havn't, given us an example of questionable ethics. You keep stating that Spesh has bad ethics: but no examples.

    Apparantly somebody thought the deal was a bad one or they would not have pulled out. most likely the deal would have cost somebody much more than it would have gained them.

    Also I didn't call you any name nor resort to implying that you are an idiot I only stated that not pulling out af a bad deal was a sign of idiocy. The point was that if the deal was a bad one then Specialized should pull out of it, even if at the last moment, otherwise they would be idiotic.

    Sincerly,
    Some Idiot

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    Since when is trying to recruit employees from a competitor sabotage? Nothing unethical about it.

    Stealing documents, marketing information, engineering information, mucking with production...unethical.

    Offering someone a job not.

    What bike you own has absolutely is not relation to who you are as a person. Buy a bike and then learn how to ride it.

    Weíve been over this, you are simply repeating stuff that others have said already.

    Your last sentence makes no sense to me, you may have posted it on the wrong thread.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by d12294
    EGF:

    I quess that I am that "some idiot" who missed your your point in #2 on this page but I wasn't responding to the points you made in #2 on this page but to the points you made in #5. If you don't want people to respond to what you write then you ought to start your posts with something like: "If you are thinking of responding to what I am about to write don't because if you do then you miss the point I made in an earlier post which means you are some idiot." So from now on you should just keep reposting your earlier posts so that none of us make the idiotic mistake of reading something in which you are not making any points.

    You were the one who gave an example of the bad ethics, not me. I only pointed out that the example wasn't a good one. so far you havn't, given us an example of questionable ethics. You keep stating that Spesh has bad ethics: but no examples.

    Apparantly somebody thought the deal was a bad one or they would not have pulled out. most likely the deal would have cost somebody much more than it would have gained them.

    Also I didn't call you any name nor resort to implying that you are an idiot I only stated that not pulling out af a bad deal was a sign of idiocy. The point was that if the deal was a bad one then Specialized should pull out of it, even if at the last moment, otherwise they would be idiotic.

    Sincerly,
    Some Idiot
    If you donít believe the points I made earlier then you wont believe any of the other point I could make. Yet still you ignore the main point I made as to why I donít like Specialized:

    BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE

    I did not resort to name calling, I used the correct term for what you are so stop whinging about it.

    You can believe what you want to believe and I can believe what I want to believe which is the truth, and if I ever se you on the trail I will drive straight at you, doesnít matter how strong your bike is, Iíve already smashed someone on a Nomad down, that was an accident yours may not be.

    BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE

  54. #54
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    Ummm

    I never said, even once, that you did not receive bad customer service: I never replied to that since that was not your only point. Reread your own posts and tell me that customer service was your only point. In fact didn't you start the post with something about poaching engineers. This is unrelated to the bad customer service you received!
    You either cannot or simply don't remember own posts.

    You may well have been the victim of bad customer service, but that doesn't mean that Specialized has bad ethics. It means you had a bad customer service experience. a company can have outstanding ethics and still have poor customer service.

    Again you were the one who kept going on about the bad ethics of Specialized. yet you offer no reasonable argument except your own bad customer service experience.

    Since you will believe whatever you want then there isn't much point is there in posting anything or telling anybody anything because even if you received good customer service it wouldn't make any difference since you would just believe what you want regardless.
    Simply because you believe something to be the case doesn't make it so!

    So why are posting anything any thing if you just continue to believe whatever you want?
    Brilliant move- no one here or anywhere else has any kind of reply to that.

    You are completely convincing I bow down to your ability to lay out a cogent and convincing argument.

    LOL XOXOXXO
    the now "whinging" idiot.
    Last edited by d12294; 02-27-2008 at 06:08 AM. Reason: s

  55. #55
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    I remember my own posts fine and have already explained them to other users.

    Bad customer service has nothing to do with their ethics, it means there is at least 1 person who needs to be fired in the UK hq.

    Your comments are starting to get a bit boring so just go away.

  56. #56
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    OK

    I'll just do what you want.

  57. #57
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    Oh arenít you kind.

  58. #58
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    I forgot to tell you that I am on a stumpy 08 the brown carbon version.
    just so if you see me on the trail you can run over me.
    My whole kit is Specialized team gear. My car also has a nice spesh sticker on the rear window. You really can't miss me.

    I wouldn't want to prevent you from failing to follow up with your threat-- also need to see an example of outstanding ethical behavior.

  59. #59
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    The brown carbon 08 Stumpy is the only one I think looks nice so I think you made a good choice there.

    You live in salt lake city Utah, which isnít very close to where I live in the UK so I will do my best but I cant make any guarantees about running you down.

    Also I donít want to do damage to your lovely bike (even though it is a Specialized) so I will spray you from my Camel Bak, the poor person on the Nomad was bleeding and he lost 4 spokes that day, I hope it teaches him a lesson to stop fiddling with you ProPedal when you are going along, he wandered out in front of me.

    You want an example of outstanding ethical behaviour do you, go back to the fist page, I put up a link that will take you to Konaís bike Africa program news last night from the Singletrack magazine.

  60. #60
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    I guess you should go back and edit your first post as the LETTER did NOT come from Mike himself get your facts straight if your going to try and give someone a black eye.

    I also suppose Specialized should put up a web page showing all the companies that tried to use(steal) their patent without permission and all those using it now.

    Cannodale sucks for the most part and this is my personal experience with their bikes and CS. Their web page clearly shows they needed some publicity to try and enhance their image while downplaying Specialized. Also the letter was to 1 engineer not all of cannondales engineers. So what if Specialized tried to talk to 1 engineer hopefully cannondale has more than 1 good engineer.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  61. #61
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    Oh please, I can read you know, I know I didnít come from Mike, it came from Specialized so for good effect I thought Iíd use his name, the buck stops with him, straight to the top.

    Would you look at this, I seem to have attracted another pro Specialized rider who will turn anything I say right around and send it back and doesnít believe a thing I say with the exception of the Specialized CS problems I have had, you have no choice but to believe that as you cant prove different and any Specialized employee on here knows the truth.

    Why donít you read the other 2 threads on this, Specialized seems to be getting allot less support on them.

  62. #62
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    EGF:

    Not that it makes much difference but, I moved to florida a month ago and havn't yet updated my profile. The weather is nicer here and the ladies wear a lot less

    If you can I could use a spray from the camelback as its a nice balmy 80 degrees right now. Come visit we'll go down to Ssouth beach and hit the bar and the beach.

    Discussing ethics is way more fun when alchohol is involved.

    By the way: Spesh sent four employees with bikes, parts etc to Africa to set up a couple of bike cooperatives. The employees spent two months in Ghana. They just didn't advertise it.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Actually its more their ethics and how they are not a nice company that pisses me off.
    Please elaborate. As a person who deals with Specialized daily, and an employee of one a Spec-only LBS, I think they are amazing to deal with. They are light years ahead of any other brand in dealer relations and protection of the LBS distribution channels.

    All the bad press is just dealers that want to sell really cheap or online, and Spec cans them. I applaud Spec for canning dealers that dont fit the business models, it helps those of us dealers that abide by the rules and have a reciprocal relationship with the brand,
    Steel is Real: www.advocatecycles.com
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  64. #64
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    I can't believe I just read all three pages.

  65. #65
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    you boys are so cute with your "info"
    Steel is Real: www.advocatecycles.com
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  66. #66
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    Why are these millitant Cannondale types always so prickly?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by d12294
    EGF:

    Not that it makes much difference but, I moved to florida a month ago and havn't yet updated my profile. The weather is nicer here and the ladies wear a lot less

    If you can I could use a spray from the camelback as its a nice balmy 80 degrees right now. Come visit we'll go down to Ssouth beach and hit the bar and the beach.

    Discussing ethics is way more fun when alchohol is involved.

    By the way: Spesh sent four employees with bikes, parts etc to Africa to set up a couple of bike cooperatives. The employees spent two months in Ghana. They just didn't advertise it.
    Iím not going all the way to Florida just to squirt you with a Camel Bak, SLC was fine as it is quite close to very good riding. Floridaís got crocs, the deals off.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    Also the letter was to 1 engineer not all of cannondales engineers. So what if Specialized tried to talk to 1 engineer hopefully cannondale has more than 1 good engineer.
    Actually it was to the entire engineering force. They BCC'd the email so you couldn't see who was on the list.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad ronald
    Actually it was to the entire engineering force. They BCC'd the email so you couldn't see who was on the list.
    Well well mr clockwork, with a name like that, that suggests you are going to keep things running smoothly and on time I had hoped that you would not do the exact same thing as what you had a go at me for. Try to get YOUR fact straight before having a go at my factual reliability.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    I’m not going all the way to Florida just to squirt you with a Camel Bak, SLC was fine as it is quite close to very good riding. Florida’s got crocs, the deals off.
    Actually that would be alligators, not crocodiles. You've been watching too much Crocodile Hunter haven't you?
    Anyway...saying Specialized is unethical and then making a threat to "run over" another poster seems....well...unethical. Hope you never come to NC and ride! Not nice at all. Anyway....you've made your point that you don't like Specialized. Sell it, buy something else and go post on that forum. You're tying up precious band-width.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikernc69
    Actually that would be alligators, not crocodiles. You've been watching too much Crocodile Hunter haven't you?
    Anyway...saying Specialized is unethical and then making a threat to "run over" another poster seems....well...unethical. Hope you never come to NC and ride! Not nice at all. Anyway....you've made your point that you don't like Specialized. Sell it, buy something else and go post on that forum. You're tying up precious band-width.

    Precious band width you say? Never heard of that particular complaint before, well done you have an original.

    Alligators you say? Your right I have watched it before and Steve was a great man but I still donít like them.

    As to the rest of what you say, I post on allot of forums, I strongly suspect that most of the users in the brake forum have had enough of me as well. It was obviously a joke that I would run him down, why on earth would I go all the way the SLC to run him down and probably end up in jail (assuming the US police arenít as crap as the UK police).

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy
    Uhmmm, can you say DOCTORED SCREEN?

    At least make the fonts look like the rest of the screen. Photoshop offers all sorts of classes on line to help your pictures look the best they possibly can.

    Amature....
    You might want to watch these then:

    http://es.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D19BCF9D57320E03

  73. #73
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    EGF168, I feel for you. But I got to say, posting Anti-Special Lies posts on the Special Lies forum will only get you burned by the Special Liars.

    It's not like I need a new reason to boycott Specialized, been doing that for quite some time, now... The whole trying to poach Cannondale employess, sending letters to Special Lies dealers telling them to boycott Cannondale products... I mean, to be completely honest, I expect that kind of behaviour from them.

  74. #74
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    Troll, troll, troll your boat.
    :wq

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168

    the poor person on the Nomad was bleeding and he lost 4 spokes that day, I hope it teaches him a lesson to stop fiddling with you ProPedal when you are going along, he wandered out in front of me.


    what a complete d*** face.

    go become a angry "FUTBOL" bloke, we dont serve your kind here.

  76. #76
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    and does anyone remember when C-DALE attacked spech with the angel in the motel bad ad? a total jr high prank there.

  77. #77
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    it's all in the name of business... so why can't you just sit down and shut the f*ck up... EGF... you are a clown. I have worked in a shop for a decent amount of time now... have been riding Specialized along with cannondale and numerous other company rigs. Honestly, I'd have to say the worst bike of the bunch was in fact a Cannondale. Now I don't want to start knocking companies, because that would just be stupid to stoop to you level, so I'll leave you with this...

    Next time you see some upity a-hole in a restaurant yelling at a young waitress because of some inane detail about how his service sucked... think of yourself and how no one really cares to hear you rant and rave about what a crappy time you have on a certain bike or what you think of a companies "ethics" or their right to free market. Just give it up. You're not changing anybody's views, you're just... annoying at best.

  78. #78
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    Itís not me itís you guys, you just wont let this thread die, johnny poop or whatever your name is, you have just put this thread back up to the top and written a pile of rubbish that Iíve heard before.

    Your not persuading me, and thank you for wasting your first post.

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