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  1. #1
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well The Captain S-Works tubeless mode=problem?

    Hello,
    I have a pair of The Captain S-Works mounted in a Mavic Crossmax XL wheels. I have tested them for 30 miles with tubes and then Iíve decided to go tubeless. The problems began.
    I installed 4oz of Magik Seal in each tire but they are losing a lot of air. I have only done more or less 8 miles with the Magik Seal installed. After a close look done after I can see a lot of Magik Seal leaking form a lot of very small holes in the sides of the tires. Looks like snake bites.
    Those any one had this problem and solved it?
    Iím starting to think that Iíve made a terrible mistake going tubeless and even worst buying the The Captain. They roll fast and have a very good grip but they are becoming a pain in the a$$ to go tubeless and those thin walls are scaring me a lot.
    Help please!

    Best regrads.

  2. #2
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    although it might be expensive, you can try throwing on a ust specific tire (like a kenda nev) and see if that one works. Havent used any 2bliss tires yet, so I couldn't tell ya

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by XMAN
    After a close look done after I can see a lot of Magik Seal leaking form a lot of very small holes in the sides of the tires. Looks like snake bites.
    Looks like defective tires to me... Both front and rear, same thing?
    "Lots of very small holes..." like a hundred or like 5 or 6?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen_Turtle
    Looks like defective tires to me... Both front and rear, same thing?
    "Lots of very small holes..." like a hundred or like 5 or 6?
    ZT
    Like less then 10 in the front tire and 4 or 5 in the rear tire. I think they are a lot because they are new tires and didn't run them in a "aggressive" environment in the 30 miles that I've done with them, but using tubes. I've done the same track several times using Roll-X tires with tubes and didn't had any problem.
    But isn't the Magik Seal supposed to seal those snake bite like holes? the stuff is just leaking like water.

    I don't think that is a 2Bliss problem but a The Captain problem.

  5. #5
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    Tires are probably fine. When installing you need to go by the video on the Stans web site. If you will lay the wheels flat on each side on the 5 gal buckets like in the video, then sealant will seal all those tiny holes. Once this is done, you may want to throw in a bit more sealant to be sure you have enough to seal punctures on the trail.

    When the tire spins with sealant in there coats the backside of the tread, but doesn't get much sealant on the sidewalls.

    Happens on alot of standard tires that are run tubeless. Gotta seal the holes and then all should be well for the life of the tire. The shake and let stand section is about 2/3 of the way through, but you should watch entire video - good tips.

    http://www.notubes.com/movieinstall.php
    Last edited by NCtrailX; 12-22-2007 at 03:07 PM.

  6. #6
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    I will take out the wheels of the bike and do "The shake and let stand" than check with some soap and water to see if every thing is sealed.
    I thought it would be much easier since the tyre and wheel are tubeless I didn't expect the small side holes after such a small rune.

  7. #7
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    The 2Bliss tires from Specialized are actually 'tubeless ready' tires and require sealant. The bead of the tire is a UST design, but the tire casing is a standard casing. The idea is that the weight on this tire will be much lighter, and most folks are running sealant in their UST tires anyway.

    Several companies have come out with similar tire setup and all require sealant.

    Good luck with the tires!!

  8. #8
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    Try some Stans Sealant 3-4oz if ya want...better than the stuff Specialized makes (IMO)
    If the tires don't seal then you can get a full refund as per Specialized!!!
    I hope this works out for you!!!
    02' is when I went tubeless, and that was the last time I flatted *knocks on wood*
    Keep us posted?

  9. #9
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    I don't know Magic seal, I hope it is not the sealant from Specialized, because this doesn't work apparantly. I just directly started with Stans, and there where also a couple of little holes, but they sealed quite fast. I have been running them like this now already 3 months and they work as a charm.

  10. #10
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    I had the same thing happen with my Captain S-Works tires, i had a bunch of little hole leaking from my sidewalls when they were brand new (must have REALLY thin sidewalls!) i usually one run 1 scoop of stans per tire and i am fine, but i had to put another half scoop in each tires, then spin them sideways for a bit, not i have not problems, they are all sealed up, i am running the captains on my Roval XC's and my Mavic SLR's.....i had to do the same with both.
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  11. #11
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    Today I tested both tires with some soap and water to see where it was leaking and is like jut8 is saying is a bunch of very small holes on the side of the tire. Hundreds of them. Because the Magik Seal is made to handle large holes it cannot handle this very small holes.
    Wednesday Iím going to my LBS to see what they can do to solve the problem. Probably Iíll return the tires although I like the way they roll and grip when is needed but they shouldn't do this they are tubeless!!! And very expensive!!!

    With all of this I'm not going to ride all this days. I have more tires but I don't want to take the Captains out to show to the guys in the LBS the way they leak.

    By the way jut8 Iím new to tubeless (this was the first try) but what I have read is that you have to refill the tires with stans after several months, is that true?

  12. #12
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    I ran mine 2bliss for a day and didn't care for it. It was the same way with my captains. I ended up putting tubes in.

  13. #13
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    I have heard that also, but i swap my tires around alot, so i put new stuff in everytime i swap them. On one of my older bikes i have had the same stans in there for over a year with my hutchinson spiders.....no issues yet, but i probably should change it just to be safe.

    Just incase you dont already know this trick, when your putting the tires on, put soapy water on the bead, they snap right into place! Good luck and keep us updated.
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  14. #14
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    Do the holes look like a striation pattern along the sidewalls? That could be from running too low of a tire pressure and sealants tend to seal that up. As for the Specialized sealant, it's great punctures (quite a bit better than Stan's) and isn't affected by CO2 cartridge use. However, I've had problems with a Captain and an Eskar on my Crossmax SL UST rims and holding air overnight. The Captain would lose almost all its air during the ride, while the Eskar isn't anywhere as bad. Strangely, the best combination I've had so far is a Specialized Chunder that was on the front with Stan's, and then got moved to the back using the Specialized Airlock sealant. Where the Stan's sealant would seep out through punctures it has "sealed", the Airlock stuff doesn't seep at all. Also, with Stan's you have to rotate the puncture to the bottom no matter what size it is and wait for the sealant to plug it; but Airlock is so thick that it sticks to the tire wall and just blows out through the hole immediately as it's right there. Very cool stuff. If they could get the stupid bead to seal better it wouldn't be such a problem. I lose around 8psi overnight with straight Airlock, whereas the other tire might lose 2psi with the Stan's/Airlock combo.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Student Driver
    Do the holes look like a striation pattern along the sidewalls? That could be from running too low of a tire pressure and sealants tend to seal that up.....
    Yes the holes do look like a striation pattern but I have been running the tires with 40 PSI and I tested with soap and water with 60 PSI. I can see the sealant coming out from some of the holes but there are a lot of them.
    The sealant seems to be working because I had a normal hole in one of the tires and it sealed that out.

    My big question is are not the tires Tubeless? So they should not leak air from the sidewalls!

  16. #16
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    As noted above the tires are not true UST tires. A UST tire is designed to hold air without sealant. The casing is tougher, but the tires are considerably heavier.

    A 'tubeless ready' tire like the 2Bliss tires from Specialized (and the new tires from Bontrager, Hutchinson, and others) use a standard casing and require sealant. UST bead with standard casing. These are a great alternative to converting tires since the bead is more durable than a conventional tire.

  17. #17
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    just put stans in them.

    The Specialized sealent sucks. Had leakage in my captains and had to pump them up every ride. I put in some stans and now they are perfect. as good as any ust tire.

    So in summary. The Captains Rock, and the Sealent blows.
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  18. #18
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    Yeah, the tubeless ready stuff is probably how many vendors are planning to go and it does work pretty well. But, being tubeless 'ready' means that it will not hold air for very long on its own.

    For me, the Captains are awful and the Specialized sealant is a work in progress. Maybe if the Captains get a 2.2 with appropriately enlarged knobs I will try them again.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by XMAN
    Yes the holes do look like a striation pattern but I have been running the tires with 40 PSI and I tested with soap and water with 60 PSI. I can see the sealant coming out from some of the holes but there are a lot of them.
    The sealant seems to be working because I had a normal hole in one of the tires and it sealed that out.

    My big question is are not the tires Tubeless? So they should not leak air from the sidewalls!
    Oh, and when you started at 40psi, you might have dropped quite a bit in pressure and the tire would have squirmed/flexed a great deal causing that. I've had it happen with a Chunder and some other tires even when they weren't tubeless. Stan's worked well enough with the pattern, but dried out really quickly and it has to slosh up the walls of the tire to seal it. Specialized Airlock is more like a hair gel and sticks to everything, so it should just seal it on its own.

    I don't know why Airlock will not seal the tire during mounting like Stan's does, but I wonder if it has something to do with its viscosity. What's cool with my Chunder is the Stan's stuff I used make the tire airtight (well, as good as it can get) and Airlock doesn't seep out or make those stupid balls of latex when hit with too much cold CO2. I will probably look at some of this homebrew stuff when I get a chance.
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  20. #20
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    I haven't used tubeless since I tested a set back when they first came out - never had to use any sealant... Mavic ones with the ceramic sidewalls... they are still sitting out in my garage.

  21. #21
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    The boss had issues with the spec. air lock sealant and sent it back to his rep. There was no way it was going to seal and the parts he had where brand new (tire rim, sealant) he has since switched back to stans in the same rim/tire setup and had no issues.

  22. #22
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    I was looking into the Specialized.com to get some more information about The Captains S-Works and they don't have information saying that they are 2Bliss! But mine have the 2Bliss symbol.
    Probably the S-Works now are not 2Bliss because of the problems that I'm having. Is it possible?
    Last edited by XMAN; 12-25-2007 at 04:35 PM.

  23. #23
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    No!!!!!!!!!!

    Just put Stans in them and quit making it harder then it has to be. They work fine, and have a Tubeless bead.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway
    Just put Stans in them and quit making it harder then it has to be. They work fine, and have a Tubeless bead.
    Ok, ok I'm going to try the Stans.

    I will post some more information after the test. Probably friday I'll put the Stans and test it during the weekend.

  25. #25
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    Standard Specialized tires

    FWIW, I've been running standard (as in non- 2bliss) Specialized tires for the past 2 years with Stan's solutions with NO problems. I have a pair of FastTrak LK Pros on my race wheels and have not had any flats or leaks. The are on Stans 355 rims.

    I also have a pair of Resolution Pro tires on Mavic 717 rims with a Stans rim strip. No leaks, no problems.

    Specialized tires are the best ones I've found for using a standard tire and converting it to tubeless. Less expensive and lighter than UST.

  26. #26
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    Maybe you have a bum tire. Your LBS should swap it out with a free replacement as in my experience Specialized is currently very generous with handling warranted problems. I have used The Captains, both S Works and regular on the same wheels as yours (Mavic Crossmax XL) with excellent results. Tires held air pressure for days and days. As others have said here, I use Stan's and also follow carefully his installation instructions, except (so much for carefully following instructions) I used window cleaner for spraying the rim instead of soapy water. It's easier, is convenient and seems to work fine. It also helps to have a compressor which can quickly inflate the tire to set the bead into the time. Stan's sells a nifty Air Bob Universal Tire Inflator by Problem Solvers which although costly at $90.00 works really, really well with a compressor. When I have had leaks, I first let the air out of the tire, break the beads and reseat the beads, being sure to have the Stan's in the tire and a spray of window cleaner along the rim/tire so the bead can slip into place.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldmancud
    I use Stan's and also follow carefully his installation instructions, except (so much for carefully following instructions) I used window cleaner for spraying the rim instead of soapy water. It's easier, is convenient and seems to work fine.
    Pretty funny: I use Windex for the same reasons above. Seems to be working just fine...
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  28. #28
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    Stans No Tube are now in the tires, two scoops per tire. I've done "The shake and let stand" but I still see a lot of micro holes.
    I don't think that the Stans is going to seal all of them.
    If that doesn't work I (and it doesn't look like that is going to) I have bought a pair Kenda Ultra Lite tubes (the final solution).

    One question to all of you that have The Captains with Stans, those it loses a lot of ar?
    Last edited by XMAN; 12-31-2007 at 03:57 AM.

  29. #29
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    Hmm did it work?

    sometimes takes a couple rides to get it all sealed up.
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  30. #30
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    O and

    tubes are for road bikes. espically ultra-light ones
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  31. #31
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    During the night it lost only 5 PSI !!!! From 45 to 40.
    I went for a small ride, about 1hour, and it lost the same 5 PSI from the same 45 to 40. I'm going to see how much is going to lose during the this day.

    This values is the same that normally is lost with tubes.

    Is looking much better but I hope it gets better. Objective 0 PSI lost.
    The Stans is working!

    Thank you all that helped.
    Last edited by XMAN; 12-29-2007 at 03:03 PM.

  32. #32
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    Why so High?

    Thats alot of PSI
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  33. #33
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    If you are losing the same psi in a 1 hour ride that you do overnight, then you are probably losing it when you pull the pump hose off the valve stem.

    Even with a tube if you pump to 45 and then check it will be less than 45.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by XMAN
    During the night it lost only 5 PSI !!!! From 45 to 40.
    I went for a small ride, about 1hour, and it lost the same 5 PSI from the same 45 to 40. I'm going to see how much is going to lose during the this day.

    This values is the same that normally is lost with tubes.

    Is looking much better but I hope it gets better. Objective 0 PSI lost.
    The Stans is working!

    Thank you all that helped.
    How many PSI does your pump lose filling the line when you hook it up? Try attaching it to get a read, disconnect and then reattach it again immediately to get your line loss. My guess is 5PSI.

    I am running Eskar's which are what student driver would like the Captains to be(2.3 with bigger knobs) and it took a while to get the tires sealed. I used 3 scoops of stans before they sealed completely and they have been fine since. A friends nevergals were a pain in the arse and took ages to seal properly.
    But as to the fable that there are Antipodes, that is to say, men on the opposite side of the earth, where the sun rises when it sets to us, men who walk with their feet opposite ours, that is on no ground credible.

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  35. #35
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    I'm running 40/45 PSI because that was the value that I was using in my old tires (Roll-X) and because the PSI that The Captains must be run is 35-65 PSI. If the tires are losing some air ans I put less than the 40/45 it could get under the recommended 35.
    When the tires get sealed I will try several values of PSI to see which will be better, but I like the felling of the 40/45.

    I'm also thinking that the 5 PSI are being lost when I pull the pump hose off the valve stem (as it was said by sthrnfat) or when I take a read (as it was said by captainnemo).

    Apart from the "problem" of sealing the tires, they are very fast and grip very good even with mud. They are much better than the Roll-X.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by XMAN
    I'm running 40/45 PSI because that was the value that I was using in my old tires (Roll-X) and because the PSI that The Captains must be run is 35-65 PSI. If the tires are losing some air ans I put less than the 40/45 it could get under the recommended 35.
    When the tires get sealed I will try several values of PSI to see which will be better, but I like the felling of the 40/45.

    I'm also thinking that the 5 PSI are being lost when I pull the pump hose off the valve stem (as it was said by sthrnfat) or when I take a read (as it was said by captainnemo).

    Apart from the "problem" of sealing the tires, they are very fast and grip very good even with mud. They are much better than the Roll-X.
    Congrats on going with Stans for your tubeless setup. Make sure you follow his directions precisely. Shake that bottle of sealant very well and invert it to pour it out. Stans recommends not going higher than 40 PSI MAX while running tubeless. check pressure before each ride and you'll be fine. Mine loose about 5PSI in a week, so good luck with getting to zero...

    I have not had a single flat tire during a ride since going tubeless w/stans (I've used both rim strips and UST rims) running stans. It's been about 5 years now, with many epic rides, downhills, rock gardens, etc. I have run a number of different non-UST tires from specialized and Kenda.

    I have seen lots of holes in the sidewalls of specialized tires, but it's not that there is a problem with the tires. They are made to run with tubes or sealant. However, the pinholes instantly seal up with stans.

    Like another person said, I also carry a tube just in case, but have never needed it. I end up handing them out to tube-riders on the trail when they get a flat or two or three and run out of patches, etc...

    The only reason not to use tubeless/sealant is if you change tires frequently during the season.... That might be a pain. I use the same tires for everything now... Specialized Adrenaline 2.2 in front (measures 2.4) and Specialized Eskar 2.3 control in the rear (measures 2.2). On mavic UST rims with stans.

    Don't forget to use the Stans valve stems (with the removeable core) on your UST rims so you can use Stan's injector to inject more stans juice without having to pop the tire off of the bead hooks.

  37. #37
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    Ok, I've put on a The Captain Sport and a Roll-X Sport on my Crossmax STs using Stan's. It took some doing, but they're sealed up and holding air without issue. However, I have noticed a small drip/droplet formation of a brown/black liquid around the bead and at a few points on the sidewalls. The tires are holding the air just fine, but the liquid seems eerily like dissolved rubber...any thoughts on that one?

  38. #38
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    Mine are losing some air. since the weekend they have dropped around 15 PSI and the bike is stop in the garage.
    The front tire is also losing some black liquid around the side walls but none from the bead.
    I think it's the Stans sealing the larger holes.

  39. #39
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    I know its been months but I have the same thing going on with my s-works the-captains. i did the stans thing, shook it about, made sure the liquid got all over and overnight the tire was almost flat. i guess i will need to do the "lay it on its side" thing.

    when i submerge the wheel in water, there are hundreds of tiny air bubbles that begin forming on the sidewall. these tubeless ready setups are kinda strange. seems like a big hassle just to get rid of all those tiny holes. what if i dont have time? yeah, a tube... but...

  40. #40
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    I had the same issue with my Sworks Captains leaking air tubeless with Stans.The Specialized web site does not advertise them as 2Biss any more.
    I am currently running Control Fast Tracks tubeless with Stans and no air loss.
    Maybe the RedSweb can chime in on this issue?

  41. #41
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    Hello NoBalance,

    Has you can the see Stans took some time to seal the tire, but it has done the job.
    Go for some short rides that it will help to seal the tire.
    During this 6 months the tires are losing about 5 PSI between the weekends. It's the same that it was losing with tubes in.
    It also prevented 3 flats (3 glass cuts), that I've known of.
    At this moment I can say that the Stans No Tubes is doing what it's suppose to do, seal the tire and prevent flats.

  42. #42
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    Hi,

    I'm wearing a set o these tires for 3 months in Mavic SLR and since I'm using them with Stan's No tubes I never had air leaks or punctures again.
    See the instrucions to properly seal a tubeless tyre in the Stan's website.

    Regards

    Paulo

  43. #43
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    Two weeks of trying with Stans following the Stans recommended procedure.
    Again, Specialized warrantied the tires and I have had zero issues with my Control Fast Tracks.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacobus
    Two weeks of trying with Stans following the Stans recommended procedure.
    Again, Specialized warrantied the tires and I have had zero issues with my Control Fast Tracks.
    Hummmm, it really looks like a defective tire. This was happening to me but before trying the Stans when I was using a Glycerol based sealant. Even than it didn't leaked that much.

    Thank God for the Specialized warranty.

  45. #45
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    Its a bit better now, after I left it laying around one both sides for a couple days. I guess this is what we get when we pay for the S-works! Lose a couple grams! oh yeah, and because we made the damn tire too thin. Oops.

    Just kidding. Its holding air now but not as well as the fast traks i have. I will take it on a couple rides and hope it eventually becomes "normal". Still, all this work is totally annoying for a tire that can be found for $59 in stores. Meh.

  46. #46
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    i have just install my old captain into my crosstrail with stans today
    the tyre was fine after a short run on it
    the small holes are all sealed but somehow there are water(colourless liquid) come out rom sidewalls but seems no leak of air

    is that normal?

  47. #47
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    The same happens to me. Seems to be normal.

  48. #48
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    I have to say that I've been totally unimpressed with the Captain tires! I just bought a 2008 S-Works Stumpy and they were stock on the bike. I've ridden it 3 times for a total of 75 miles, 2 ripped sidewalls and endless hours of trying to get the tubeless system to hold air! Why in the hell would Ned put his name and reputation on such an inferior product? Spec. seems to think using plastic wrap for sidewalls will work in offroad riding/ racing?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8rhino
    I have to say that I've been totally unimpressed with the Captain tires! I just bought a 2008 S-Works Stumpy and they were stock on the bike. I've ridden it 3 times for a total of 75 miles, 2 ripped sidewalls and endless hours of trying to get the tubeless system to hold air! Why in the hell would Ned put his name and reputation on such an inferior product? Spec. seems to think using plastic wrap for sidewalls will work in offroad riding/ racing?
    I'm assuming these are the S-works tires. I just sliced a sidewall on one of them.
    Did you get the lbs to replace them or had to buy new ones?
    "There is no A-line"
    Quadzilla --- Savvy Bike

  50. #50
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    They were the S-works and thankfully my LBS takes very good care of me! Just really disappointed with the quality of a $55 tire.

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