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  1. #1
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    9mm/QR front... A concern... Or not?

    All,

    I have the S-Works Epic 2013 frameset on order.
    The one thing that really bothers me is the 9mm/QR front.
    Coming off a 15mm front I have a concern I would feel the difference in stiffness between that and a 9mm/QR front.
    Would be interested in your feedback!

    Thanks,
    Ofir

  2. #2
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    Is it a 9mm QR or 9mm through bolt? If its the through bolt I wouldn't worry about it. Spesh calls their through bolt OE24 on Fox forks & OE28 on RockShox. Spesh did some testing & found/claim the OE24 is equal to a 15TA & the OE28 exceeds the 15TA.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Tom View Post
    Is it a 9mm QR or 9mm through bolt? If its the through bolt I wouldn't worry about it. Spesh calls their through bolt OE24 on Fox forks & OE28 on RockShox. Spesh did some testing & found/claim the OE24 is equal to a 15TA & the OE28 exceeds the 15TA.
    I would like to run it 9mm THRU. So yes, the RWS standard.

    Ofir

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaadd View Post
    I would like to run it 9mm THRU. So yes, the RWS standard.

    Ofir
    it is os28 or os24, they are just 9mm qr, it is the encaps on the hub that are diff.
    to my knowledge they dont offer endcaps for dt swiss rws 9mm thru bolt. in specys testing they claim os28 is stiffer then qr15

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    it is os28 or os24, they are just 9mm qr, it is the encaps on the hub that are diff.
    to my knowledge they dont offer endcaps for dt swiss rws 9mm thru bolt. in specys testing they claim os28 is stiffer then qr15
    My plan is to run DT Swiss 240S as the front hub and use their conversion kit for 9mm thru bolt. Is this different then the stated above?

    Ofir

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaadd View Post
    My plan is to run DT Swiss 240S as the front hub and use their conversion kit for 9mm thru bolt. Is this different then the stated above?

    Ofir
    yes obviously 9mm wont be as stiff as 15mm. the above is specys own hub/fork interface...dt swiss does not have this

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    yes obviously 9mm wont be as stiff as 15mm. the above is specys own hub/fork interface...dt swiss does not have this
    Are you sure? I was certain that Specialized is using the DT RWS 9mm THRU...???

    Ofir

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaadd View Post
    Are you sure? I was certain that Specialized is using the DT RWS 9mm THRU...???

    Ofir
    not with an os28 or os24 fr hub

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    not with an os28 or os24 fr hub
    so if I would have the DT RWS it would not work?? Or just be less stiff?

    Ofir

  10. #10
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    it will work with a dt swiss hub

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    it will work with a dt swiss hub
    Umm... OK... That's what I wrote: "My plan is to run DT Swiss 240S as the front hub and use their conversion kit for 9mm thru bolt.".

    I assume your comment was that it would be less stiff then the Spec. hub with RWS?

    I am sorry, but I got confused.
    Ofir

  12. #12
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    It's what's 4 lunch?

    Quote Originally Posted by blaadd View Post
    All...
    I have a concern I would feel the difference in stiffness between that and a 9mm/QR front.
    Would be interested in your feedback!
    Thanks,
    Ofir
    Allrightly, my $0.02 will not be popular with mfg's, and DH riders, that are the one's pouring, and drinking the kool aid.
    Mfg's are in it for $$, to create new profit centers, all backed by sponsored riders, and aggresive mktg., and many believe.
    [new fork, new hub, or adapters, and car rack issues - just where does it end?]
    IME 9mm Q/R axles / skewers work quite well. If concerned with strength use a hex skewer. Weighing 210#, I've cracked a few frames,
    and taco'd a couple of front wheels, but NEVER have I broken, or bent a hollow front axle. FYI - Am not a DJ, FR, DH, or big air fiend.

    For those that say they can feel the difference between a q/r, and a 15-20mm axle, I would ask this..
    Please explain how can you differentiate, or isolate sidewall squirm, and spoke deflection, to detect axle flex?
    To me, (if the bearings are adjusted properly) the first thing I always feel is tire squirm, as it most noticeable & measurable.
    Next is wheel flex, if enough that when torqued the tire rubs the stays then spoke tension is far too low.
    Bearing adjustment is easy, either the wheel fails to spin freely, or flops from side to side.
    The least measurable, and hardest to detect of all is - axle flex, and this IS my point.
    How can anyone tell when / if it's axle stiffness, when all other factors have a far greater impact?

    Please correct me if I'm mistaken, or missing something. Also enlighten us as to why TdF riders with legs of steel all run std. q/r's?
    If not, just call me a crumudgeon, retro-grouch, the un-lemming, or simply a skeptic.
    [Would love a reply from a Wheelsmith, or Mfg.]
    The best is the one you want to ride most often..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Allrightly, my $0.02 will not be popular with mfg's, and DH riders, that are the one's pouring, and drinking the kool aid.
    Mfg's are in it for $$, to create new profit centers, all backed by sponsored riders, and aggresive mktg., and many believe.
    [new fork, new hub, or adapters, and car rack issues - just where does it end?]
    IME 9mm Q/R axles / skewers work quite well. If concerned with strength use a hex skewer. Weighing 210#, I've cracked a few frames,
    and taco'd a couple of front wheels, but NEVER have I broken, or bent a hollow front axle. FYI - Am not a DJ, FR, DH, or big air fiend.

    For those that say they can feel the difference between a q/r, and a 15-20mm axle, I would ask this..
    Please explain how can you differentiate, or isolate sidewall squirm, and spoke deflection, to detect axle flex?
    To me, (if the bearings are adjusted properly) the first thing I always feel is tire squirm, as it most noticeable & measurable.
    Next is wheel flex, if enough that when torqued the tire rubs the stays then spoke tension is far too low.
    Bearing adjustment is easy, either the wheel fails to spin freely, or flops from side to side.
    The least measurable, and hardest to detect of all is - axle flex, and this IS my point.
    How can anyone tell when / if it's axle stiffness, when all other factors have a far greater impact?

    Please correct me if I'm mistaken, or missing something. Also enlighten us as to why TdF riders with legs of steel all run std. q/r's?
    If not, just call me a crumudgeon, retro-grouch, the un-lemming, or simply a skeptic.
    [Would love a reply from a Wheelsmith, or Mfg.]
    its not axle flex that is trying to be cured with 15qr, it is fork twist out of the lwr legs.
    2 completely diff things.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    its not axle flex that is trying to be cured with 15qr, it is fork twist out of the lwr legs.
    2 completely diff things.
    Are you saying that the front wheel shifts under hard braking due to inadequate tension applied by the q/r?
    If so, just use a hex skewer. If not, please explain further.
    The best is the one you want to ride most often..

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Are you saying that the front wheel shifts under hard braking due to inadequate tension applied by the q/r?
    If so, just use a hex skewer. If not, please explain further.
    no, i'm saying the fork lwrs twist. take the wheel out of the fork and you can move the legs with your hands. thats what 15qr is trying to eliminate.

  16. #16
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    ^^^How do fork lowers differ from q/r ---> 15mm ---> 20mm?
    Are they not all the same I.D. and O.D.?
    Forgive me here, as this makes little sense, and I smell BS..
    The best is the one you want to ride most often..

  17. #17
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    I think I have this all figured out and I think that I can help.

    If you have a true DT Swiss 240 hub and you get the adapter to run a 9mm thru axle then you will have no problem doing so.

    However. If you are running a specialized branded 240 hub then it will come with either OS28 or OS24 end caps and you are limited to QR only. Specialized does not carry the end cap for OS28 9mm thru. However, I started a thread a couple days ago with this question and one person commented that they drilled out the OS28 QR end caps for the 9mm thru without any issues.

    According to specialized. The OS28 w/ QR is stronger than 15mm thru. It is up to you whether you believe that or not.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooclosetosee View Post
    I think I have this all figured out and I think that I can help.

    If you have a true DT Swiss 240 hub and you get the adapter to run a 9mm thru axle then you will have no problem doing so.

    However. If you are running a specialized branded 240 hub then it will come with either OS28 or OS24 end caps and you are limited to QR only. Specialized does not carry the end cap for OS28 9mm thru. However, I started a thread a couple days ago with this question and one person commented that they drilled out the OS28 QR end caps for the 9mm thru without any issues.

    According to specialized. The OS28 w/ QR is stronger than 15mm thru. It is up to you whether you believe that or not.
    no with a specy hub you can get qr15 adapters

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    ^^^How do fork lowers differ from q/r ---> 15mm ---> 20mm?
    Are they not all the same I.D. and O.D.?
    Forgive me here, as this makes little sense, and I smell BS..
    look at the dropouts on a qr fork compared to a 15mm fork....it's pretty obvious the diff
    and why its stiffer, completely diff interface. dont get me wrong your not going to be 10x faster by switching to 15qr, but it is a stiffer system.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post
    no with a specy hub you can get qr15 adapters
    yep, you sure can. I have them, but I have no 15mm fork.

    The OP also said he was buying a frameset, so I was assuming this also meant that he was getting the appropriate fork (color, etc.) sold with the frame which is not a 15mm fork.

  21. #21
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    Just to simplify/clarify...

    A DT Swiss RWS through bolt when used with an other-than specialized hub that is designed for a 9mm through axle, will be somewhat stiffer than a regular Q/R (they clamp tighter and have no plastic in the force flow to soften with increased temps)

    A DT Swiss RWS through bolt when used with a Specialized hub with OS28 endcaps are (according to specialized) lighter and stiffer than a 15mm (the larger interface between the dropouts and the hubs combined with the increased clamping forces stiffen things up).

  22. #22
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    A 9mm thru bolt is not the same as a 9mm QR. The 9QR is in fact 5mm, the 9 thru bolt is 9mm.

    9QR < 9TB < 15TA < 20TA

  23. #23
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    OE24 is made by DT Swiss, it's a 9mm thru bolt.









    Elite Spesh hubs are convertable to 15TA.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call_me_Tom View Post
    A 9mm thru bolt is not the same as a 9mm QR. The 9QR is in fact 5mm, the 9 thru bolt is 9mm.

    9QR < 9TB < 15TA < 20TA
    ^^ Absolutely true, yet can anyone actually feel the difference over tire squirm, or wheel deflection?

    BTW - I think "fork twist" is pure mktg-hype & pure BS...:sly:
    The best is the one you want to ride most often..

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