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  1. #1
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    2Bliss conversion fail

    I have a 2011 Stumpy Expert 29er. I just tried to convert to tubeless using the stock Specialized stuff that came with the bike -- blue rim strip already installed, valve stems that came with the bike, and the stock Purgatory tires. Here was my procedure:
    - Unseated half the tire and removed the tube
    - Installed the valve stem on top of the blue strip. Pushed it in from the inside and tightened the nut as tight as I could with my fingers.
    - Put recommended amount of Slime Pro in the tire.
    - Put the tire back on the rim
    - Aired up the tire. The bead set and it aired up easily.
    - Moved the wheel/tire around horizontally on both sides to evenly distribute the slime.

    I noticed several hours later that the front tire had lost some pressure, so I tightened the stem beyond finger tight with pliers and pumped it back up.
    A couple days later the front tire was completely flat and the rear is soft.

    Did I do something wrong?
    Can I make the 2Bliss stufff work, or should I get a Stans kit?
    Should I just go back to tubes?

  2. #2
    dirt visionary
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    I can make the any of the 2bliss stuff work on any rim ust or non ust....

    Maybe your problem is that the one side that was already seated didn't get any sealeant in that bead therefore its leaking.

    Yesterday I change 7 tires between 4 wheelsets. Had issues with one tire that would not set. So I tossed a tube in it pumped it up set the beads. Aired down the tube busted one side pulled tube out filled with stans and reaired it . Bead finally set but had to deal with it leaking for a bit before I popped the other bead off and then reaired it to pop it back on. Stopped leaking within 15min.
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  3. #3
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    Not sure why your having this problem, my 2bliss tires air up and hold without any sealant just Stans tape(I am going to put sealant in before I ride)

    Air both the tires up, lay them horizontally, put soap and water in a bucket, get a large brush and put the suds around the rim. Now you should be able to see where it's leaking from.

    I would check the tape on the rim, on my X420SL's the stock tape had small holes in certain places mainly it was ripped around the valve stem area.

    I've only ever used Stans and it has worked 100% of the time so far. If your going to get the Stans you don't need to buy the kit just get the sealant and tape(rim strips are not needed imo).

  4. #4
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    Have ridden it yet, sometimes it takes a ride to get the sealant to seal all the potential leak points.

  5. #5
    sadly, like the element
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    Replace the blue Spesh tape with Stan's yellow tape. The blue tape that was installed on my Epic's 29'er rims was far from wide enough to adequately seal the spoke holes and air leaked from all of them.

    Once I put one layer of yellow tape on them, no more problems.

  6. #6
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    Use Stans sealant and watch the installation videos on www.notubes.com.

  7. #7
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    Interesting topic.

    Let me suggest you all to use Effetto Mariposa Caffelatex sealant,by far the best latex I've ever used.

    I'm due to do this conversion in a couple of days on my SJ Elite. The dealer told me the blue tape is already installed and I just have to put the valve stems and I should be ready to go.
    Just a quick question,sorry it may be silly : do I have to poke a hole in the tape to let the valve through ?? That doesn't sound right actually,but I always had tubeless ready rims..
    Last edited by Devastazione; 02-06-2011 at 12:36 PM.
    Roadie DNA,mtbike curious.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione
    Interesting topic.

    Let me suggest you all to use Effetto Mariposa Caffelatex sealant,by far the best latex I've ever used.

    I'm due to do this conversion in a couple of days on my SJ Elite. The dealer told me the blue tape is already installed and I just have to put the valve stems and I should be ready to go.
    Just a quick question,sorry it may be silly : do I have to poke a hole in the tape to let the valve through ?? That doesn't right actually,but I always had tubeless ready rims..
    No the hole is already there

  9. #9
    West Chester, PA
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    Gotta be leaks in the tape or you didn't have the bead seated all the way. Try wiping a little bit of soapy water around the beads right before you air them up. You should hear a pretty loud pop when the beads fully seat. Air up to the max pressure indicated on the tire sidewall to be sure.

    If the tires are s-works purgatorys they may leak a bit of air through the sidewalls and need sealant. If they are control purgatorys they should hold air with with no sealant.

  10. #10
    fnar fnar brrraaaaap
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    Use newer tyres. Worn/ used/dirty/ dusty tyres and beads don't seal to well. OR take tyre off and clean with soap and water. Dry. Try again.

  11. #11
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    O yea I forgot to mention on specialized FAQ's i forget where but it says to use 2x the recommended amount of stans in 2bliss tire because the sidewalls have pores

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    I don't know what everyone is talking abut with the 2bliss Control versions not needing sealant. Mine leaked all over the place thru the sidewalls, there were bubbles everywhere. Took about a month or two before they stopped leaking air, even after properly installing with Stan's. They only dropped a few lb's in between rides but they still leaked.

    OP, forget the slime. Wash out the inside of the tires to get all of the powder from the tubes out of the tires. Reinstall with Stan's and treat the sidewalls a few extra times by laying them on their sides and swirling the sealant around.

  14. #14
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    Okay, I bought some Stan's sealant and I'll give it another try. A mechanic at my LBS also said to use 5 to 6 ounces instead of the recommended 2 oz. of sealant. I don't see any sealant leaking out anywhere, it's just losing air.

    FWIW, the front tire is an S-Works Purgatory and the rear is a Purgatory Control, both 29x2.2.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu
    Okay, I bought some Stan's sealant and I'll give it another try. A mechanic at my LBS also said to use 5 to 6 ounces instead of the recommended 2 oz. of sealant. I don't see any sealant leaking out anywhere, it's just losing air.

    FWIW, the front tire is an S-Works Purgatory and the rear is a Purgatory Control, both 29x2.2.
    Well more can't hurt, I have the exact same setup and as mentioned before a good ride will tend to seal things up. I'm using 3oz of my homebrew sealant per tire and they were slowly leaking down before the first ride but hold air great since.

  16. #16
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro
    I don't know what everyone is talking abut with the 2bliss Control versions not needing sealant.
    There has been some discussion that the more recently manufactured control tires have more rubber coating on the inside. A guy at my local spech. dealer backed it up. I have 4 control captains that I've bought within the last 10 months and they hold pressure longer than tires with tubes in them.

  17. #17
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    2 things that I didn't see mentioned yet:

    -Put grease (lots) around the rubber grommet of the valve stem.
    -Ride it, preferably in rocks. Any tire I have a problem with gets ridden down a drainage ditch. My gut tells me that it deforms the casing enough to open up small holes and it gets plugged with Stans. 10 min ride usually solves the issue.

    Also, like password said, use new tires. I refuse to convert any tire that was ridden on the trail with a tube. PITA.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    There has been some discussion that the more recently manufactured control tires have more rubber coating on the inside. A guy at my local spech. dealer backed it up. I have 4 control captains that I've bought within the last 10 months and they hold pressure longer than tires with tubes in them.
    guess I got screwed because I was not aware of that. I did just get one new tire about 2 months ago and come to think about it, it might be holding air better than the others...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu
    Okay, I bought some Stan's sealant and I'll give it another try. A mechanic at my LBS also said to use 5 to 6 ounces instead of the recommended 2 oz. of sealant. I don't see any sealant leaking out anywhere, it's just losing air.

    FWIW, the front tire is an S-Works Purgatory and the rear is a Purgatory Control, both 29x2.2.
    as mentioned before, watch the Stan's video. You won't see sealant leaking out of the tire. You will see foamy/bubbles appearing where the pin holes are located. I used 1 1/2 scoops of Stans to seal up my 26" 2.2 captains and 2.3 Purg. For 29r, I'd use 2 scoops. Make sure that the tires are dry after washing out all of that other goo before getting started.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwork
    2 things that I didn't see mentioned yet:

    -Put grease (lots) around the rubber grommet of the valve stem.
    -Ride it, preferably in rocks. Any tire I have a problem with gets ridden down a drainage ditch. My gut tells me that it deforms the casing enough to open up small holes and it gets plugged with Stans. 10 min ride usually solves the issue.

    Also, like password said, use new tires. I refuse to convert any tire that was ridden on the trail with a tube. PITA.
    Thanks for the inputs. I'll try the grease. These tires are fairly new and I like them a lot, so I'm not going to buy new tires now. I could just put the tubes back in until they wear out, but I'll give the tubeless another try.

  21. #21
    dirt visionary
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    No need to buy new tires. If your stem is sealed and the strip is in proper then its a matter of getting sealant to seal the tire. Stans will take care of that with the right amount. For new tires I normally used 4oz as it takes more than you think to coat the inside of the tire.
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  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    You have DT swiss rims correct? Pump the tire up to 30-40 psi and check the seam where the rim meets itself, if you don't hear air leaking from it try putting some soap suds on it

  24. #24
    just ride
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    another little problem I have faced is if you use tire levers to install your tires you may tear or pop a small hole in the tape!

    Dont forget if you buy new specialized tires and have problems , they have a program that allows you to take it back to your LBS and get a new one. below is from thier website

    "We are so confident in the performance of our tires that we are now providing an unconditional satisfaction guarantee on every tire we make for 90 days from the original date of the tire's purchase.

    If for any reason, you are not satisfied with any Specialized tire, just return it to the store you purchased it from with a proof of purchase, and they will exchange it for another Specialized tire of equivalent value.

    If you have purchased your tires from the Specialized online store and are in the USA, send an email to store_customerservice@specialized.com or call us at (877) 808-8154 and we will take care of your issue."

  25. #25
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    From the 2bliss instruction link above:

    "DT SWISS RIMS - When installing 2Bliss Ready tires on DT Swiss Rims, it is recommended to use the DT Swiss 2Bliss Ready kit. If this is not available, the rims may need to be taped with 3-4 revolutions of Roval 2Bliss Ready tape to build up the rim inner diameter, in order to create a
    better seal for tire inflation."

    Are they saying the 420/450SL requires the mystery DT Swiss 2Bliss Ready kit also?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swami Scott
    From the 2bliss instruction link above:

    "DT SWISS RIMS - When installing 2Bliss Ready tires on DT Swiss Rims, it is recommended to use the DT Swiss 2Bliss Ready kit. If this is not available, the rims may need to be taped with 3-4 revolutions of Roval 2Bliss Ready tape to build up the rim inner diameter, in order to create a
    better seal for tire inflation."

    Are they saying the 420/450SL requires the mystery DT Swiss 2Bliss Ready kit also?
    Mine are the DT Swiss 520SL rims. They came with the blue tape already installed and the valves were included with the bike, so I assume the OEM DT rims come ready to go from the factory.

    I tried again last night, using the suggestions here and what it said in the manual that was linked above. A mechanic at my LBS recommended Stan's sealant over Slime Pro, so I bought a bottle of Stans and added it to the tires. He also said to use 4-6 oz. of sealant, which is double what I had in there. After adding the sealant and putting the tire on the rim I rolled the flat tire on the garage floor as the manual recommended. I then pumped the tires up to 65 psi as recommended in the manual -- I think this really helped to get a tight seal at the bead. Then I rode up and down my street a little bit -- a longer ride would have been better but it was late and dark and cold.

    This morning the tires still felt very firm, so if there is any leakage it is very slow and should seal up after the first real ride.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devastazione
    Interesting topic.

    Let me suggest you all to use Effetto Mariposa Caffelatex sealant,by far the best latex I've ever used.

    Do a "search" on Caffelatex prior to using it. I had horrible experiences with this stuff. Initially..it's great when going tubeless. However, on the trail, it doesn't seal up well if the tire is punctured. Your experience may vary but mine was awful. Been riding tubeless for 7 years and never had a problem while on the trail, except for when I was using Caffelatex. I switched back to Stan's and all my problems mysteriously disappeared!

  28. #28
    Mk3
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    quick question: whats the benefit of going through all this mess? doesn't the stans stuff add as much weight as a standard thin specialized tube? and what about the headaches of trying to get it to work. I don't regularly get flat tubes.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk3
    quick question: whats the benefit of going through all this mess? doesn't the stans stuff add as much weight as a standard thin specialized tube? and what about the headaches of trying to get it to work. I don't regularly get flat tubes.
    A detailed explanation of tubeless tire conversion and the advantages/disadvantages of going tubeless

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk3
    quick question: whats the benefit of going through all this mess? doesn't the stans stuff add as much weight as a standard thin specialized tube? and what about the headaches of trying to get it to work. I don't regularly get flat tubes.
    the tubes that came out of my 26er were 129 and 130 grams, so in order to match that weight you'd need to use 4.6 oz of sealant

  31. #31
    dirt visionary
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    I guess it depends on where you ride....Out here in az you won't get very far with a thin tube and no sealant. So for us in the deserts and other harsh terrains it saves us weight and headaches but then again the number 2 tube killer is pinch flats which no amount of sealant inside a tube will fix. I like that I can go approx a year on a tire set without flats.
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  32. #32
    Mk3
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk3
    Nice! thanks...
    Anytime

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Slo4U
    Do a "search" on Caffelatex prior to using it. I had horrible experiences with this stuff. Initially..it's great when going tubeless. However, on the trail, it doesn't seal up well if the tire is punctured. Your experience may vary but mine was awful. Been riding tubeless for 7 years and never had a problem while on the trail, except for when I was using Caffelatex. I switched back to Stan's and all my problems mysteriously disappeared!
    I hate to derail and bash a product, but Caffeelatex just didn't work for me either. I suffered a small puncture on my front tire, and over the course of the next 60 seconds my bike and I were coated with a fine layer of the crap. My jersey and shorts still have the stains and I'll still find a piece of sealant on my bike every once in awhile even after a vigorous cleaning. Three months later.

    Yeah. Avoid. Stick with Stan's.

    If you can, use an air compressor for initial inflation. The high pressure and high volume will get the beads up almost immediately almost all the time.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk3
    quick question: whats the benefit of going through all this mess? doesn't the stans stuff add as much weight as a standard thin specialized tube? and what about the headaches of trying to get it to work. I don't regularly get flat tubes.
    There is also a reduction in friction between the inner tire and tube that causes less rolling resistance. All of my bikes feel faster off the line when converted. Plus i like the hollow sound the tires make!

  36. #36
    Mk3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosoxraptor
    There is also a reduction in friction between the inner tire and tube that causes less rolling resistance. All of my bikes feel faster off the line when converted. Plus i like the hollow sound the tires make!
    I don't know that I buy a better rolling resistance due to tube/tire friction. The tire mounts to the rim, not the tube.

  37. #37
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    "Tubes vs. tubeless
    Dear Lennard,
    I’m curious what you think about the “25 percent decreased rolling resistance” of the new Dura-Ace/Hutchinson tubeless system. I would imagine a rough road surface might yield a significant difference but that a smooth road would be negligible.
    John

    Dear John,
    I don’t know about the magnitude, but I think the improvement is real, due to the elimination of friction between the tire and tube. But I would guess that even a 25 percent improvement in rolling resistance is hard to measure in time savings without a very rigidly controlled experiment.

    Rolling resistance is subtle at high speed relative to air resistance and at low speed on climbs relative to gravity. Though I ride the Hutchinson road tubeless tires faithfully on one of my bikes and think I can notice a rolling resistance improvement sometimes, I haven’t been able to measure it on my speedometer.
    Lennard"
    from here.

    "Certainly, the benefits are promising: lower rolling resistance..."
    from here.

    I see nothing supporting the opposite case. I would not have thought this was true at first thought, but I suppose it is.

  38. #38
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    Just went tubeless on a 2013 Stumpjumper. They're not kidding when they state 2bliss ready. Took less than an hour and not a single leak from the start, inflated and locked in immediately.

    Steps:

    Remove tube
    Install stem
    Couple scoops of stan's
    Put tire on
    Inflate
    Wiggle tire per Stan
    Soap and place on side on bucket
    Flip tire and repeat
    Put tires back in bike

    Stupid easy.

  39. #39
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    tape the rim with gorilla tape,its the best rim tape

  40. #40
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    I use Gorilla duct tape to seal the rim, works flawlessly.

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