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Thread: 2014 Epic

  1. #1
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    2014 Epic

    Im hearing some inside info that 2014 is going to be seeing some changes to the epic frame. Electronic shifting from XTR too.

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    2014 Epic

    I saw a prototype on the trail and it had fox electronic front and rear lockout. i hope they get rid of the brain system and go with fox electronic lockout for sure

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    If they are going to use electronics on a bike it needs to do much more then just flip a switch. How about electronically adjustable travel and dampening. Push a button and the fork adjusts down to 70mm travel and the rear goes into a climb mode as well. Then in Descend mode the fork extends to 140mm travel with a plush active rear shock. Since its electronic it should able to adjust to anywhere in between as well. Climb with 100 mm travel and descend with 120 might be perfect for some. While they are at it they can program the computer to adjust tire pressure and saddle height for the different modes as well.
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    this is pretty interesting if it is true. i wonder and hope that anything they do would be able to be retrofitted to some older models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway View Post
    While they are at it they can program the computer to adjust tire pressure and saddle height for the different modes as well.
    adjust tire pressure? you want them to put an air compressor on the bike now?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauerkrause View Post
    adjust tire pressure? you want them to put an air compressor on the bike now?
    Its going to be a LONG time before this kinda thing could be placed on an Epic type bike, but at company showed a system something like this at Sea Otter (granted, on a fat bike). BikeRumor's got a post up about it currently.

    I have zero knowledge of what '14 holds, but I have a hard time imagining that Spec would drop the brain concept completely for electronic lockouts F & R, as currently, those systems don't do what (Specialized has claimed) the brain does. While I'm not looking forward to having it serviced when I need it, I am loving the brain concept on my '13 Carbon Comp Epic. Using electronics to move the brain adjust dial into a place where one could adjust on the fly could be very attractive.

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    If there going to put electronics on a bike it will be done gradual,like the i-phones e.t.c so they can add to to it every year to boost sales

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    I'd like one with a Sid WC and Monarch with the Full Sprint remote!

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    Xtr Di2 has been vaporware for a bit but with the refreshed brakes, chain and weight weenie wheels they showed I expect it sooner then later. Now for the epic they like to keep refining it and with WC victories and Olympic Gold attached to the current design I feel thy will keep refining but not redesign. Then again...

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    Durian, I heard they are putting it on a vegan diet.

  11. #11
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    2014 Epic

    Quote Originally Posted by padrefan1982 View Post
    I have a hard time imagining that Spec would drop the brain concept completely for electronic lockouts F & R, as currently, those systems don't do what (Specialized has claimed) the brain does. While I'm not looking forward to having it serviced when I need it, I am loving the brain concept on my '13 Carbon Comp Epic. Using electronics to move the brain adjust dial into a place where one could adjust on the fly could be very attractive.
    Although the current Fox electronic shocks are only manual electronic lockouts Rock Shox have their Monarch E.I electronic rear shock already, exclusive to Lapierre, Ghost and Haibike. That's supposed to use accelerometers to automatically react to the terrain, allowing the rear shock to open and close rapidly as needed, giving function similar to a Specialized Brain rear shock. It adds 350g or so of weight over a standard Rock Shox Monarch shock.

    Lapierre + RockShox Launch Auto-adjust E.I. Shock Suspension - BikeRadar

    There isn't much in the way of rider feedback that I've seen but on a Lapierre XR29 the E.I shock works ok apparently:

    Lapierre an their 29er FS

    If you look at the Rock Shox or Fox pricing their electronic rear shocks add significant cost. Maybe the S-Works Epic would come with electronic shocks but the cheaper models are unlikely to, due to the expense.

    The Specialized Enduro 29er looks like a template for the rest of the range. Now they've shown it works the same design features are likely to be rolled out for the other bikes too. If there's going to be any major changes to the frame it will probably be the adoption of the new mid mount front derailleur, so that the chainstays can be shortened. The 29er Epic chainstays are quite a bit longer than they were on the 26" Epic.

    26" Epic 425mm chainstay
    Specialized Bicycle Components

    29er Epic 448mm chainstay
    Specialized Bicycle Components

    "The first obstacle to designing a 29er with short chain stays is the placement of the front derailleur; the tire and front derailleur want to occupy the same space. Traditional high-, low- and direct-mount front derailleurs can contact the tire if the rear end is too short. Specialized worked with SRAM to develop a new front derailleur, dubbed ‘mid-mount’, as well as a special mounting plate, called the ‘Taco Blade.’ Mounting the front derailleur to this plate, rather than to the seat tube, gave engineers the freedom to position the seat tube so that the rear tire would not contact it under full compression. The Enduro 29’s seat tube curves forward to provide swingarm clearance, but that on its own wasn’t enough; the seat stay brace is U-shapped to eek out every last millimeter of travel from the rear end.

    This project was a learning experience for Specialized, one that may trickle down to the rest of the company’s big-wheel line. “We learned some key lessons that will influence future design. If we can make things shorter, tighter, stiffer and better we’ll do it,” Benedict said."
    Bikeradar.com

    Specialized Enduro 29 Launched - BikeRadar

    .
    Last edited by WR304; 05-04-2013 at 03:48 PM.

  12. #12
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    I've often wondered why they don't link front and rear together with a hydraulic circuit so that pitch and dive can be controlled better.

    As for electronics, easy to say but hard to do. To do electronics properly you would need a lot of sensors on the bike, and they all add weight and complexity. And until you think about it, it all seems pretty straight forward, but the "electronic" solution can increase complexity significantly over the mechanical solution, particularly as the mechanical solutions are working well, are light, and now reliable.

    Having said that, the "easy" electronic solution is for electronic damping using either a controlled damping gate or the electronically controlled damping fluid that GM & Audi use in some of their cars.

  13. #13
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    2014 Epic

    I thought that electronic XTR Di2 was rumoured to be coming out next year?

    You can get an idea of what XTR Di2 will be like from the K-Edge Ki2 conversion kit. Ki2 is a Shimano road electronic group modified by K-Edge for mountain bike use. It has a longer rear cage to work with wide ratio cassettes and the road climbing satellite shifters are in a new housing for flat bars.

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/07/28/...in-bike-group/

    Looking at the claimed weights for the latest 2013 Shimano Dura Ace 9070 Di2, against the mechanical Shimano Dura Ace 9000 groupset, XTR Di2 may not have much of a weight penalty over XTR mechanical shifting.

    http://road.cc/content/news/59808-sh...series-details

    For Dura Ace 9070 Di2 the electronic front and rear derailleurs together weigh 107g more than the mechanical versions. With the lighter internal battery the electronic wiring harness is about the same weight as the mechanical gear cables.

    DURA-ACE 9000

    Rear derailleur (RD-9000) 158g

    Front derailleur (FD-9000) 66g

    Total weight 1,978g

    Total weight with cables 2,072g


    DURA-ACE 9070 Di2

    Rear derailleur (RD-9070) 217g

    Front derailleur (FD-9070) 114g

    Total weight 1,957g

    Total weight with wiring and internal battery (SM-BTR2) 2,047g

    The potential for weight loss with the mountain bike version is in the shifters. With electronic shifting all they need to be is small switches, which can be much lighter than the current XTR trigger shifters that weigh 201g for a pair. The Ultegra Ui2 satellite climbing shifters for example are 60g for a pair.

    http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/sho...ifters/cat/529

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=85146

    The problem is going to be compatibility. Each time Shimano have brought out a new electronic groupset they've changed the wiring so it doesn't work with their previous groupsets.

    http://lavamagazine.com/gear/tested-...#axzz2SSHQ6Msy

    On a mountain bike with electronic suspension and electronic shifting you ideally want both the suspension and shifting to run off one battery. If the wiring isn't compatible between the two (eg: Rock Shox (SRAM) E.I electronic suspension and Shimano XTR Di2 may use different connectors) then you'd end up needing to lug around two batteries.

    One thing you can be certain of is that an Epic with electronic shifting and electronic suspension will be brutally expensive. If the 2013 S-Works Epic is $10,000 USD with mechanical shifting and mechanical suspension a version with electronic shifting and electronic suspension would probably be nearer $15,000 USD.

  14. #14
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    2014 Epic

    Some other background links about the Rock Shox E.I and Fox ICD electronic suspension.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/ei-and-...hock-2012.html

    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Fox-iCD...n-Earnest.html

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    $5,000 for electronic shifting and suspension? That seems a bit high. You can buy a seriously nice bike for $5,000. I'm thinking more along the lines of another $1,000 to $2,000 and even that is a lot of money.

    I kind of hate the idea of all these electronics on mountain bikes. Why fix what isn't broken? I'd much rather see hydraulic shifters and derailleurs and better suspension kinematics and damper circuits than heavy batteries, actuators, sensors, and microprocessors.

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    Batteries won't be heavy in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmckechnie View Post
    $5,000 for electronic shifting and suspension? That seems a bit high. You can buy a seriously nice bike for $5,000. I'm thinking more along the lines of another $1,000 to $2,000 and even that is a lot of money.

    I kind of hate the idea of all these electronics on mountain bikes. Why fix what isn't broken? I'd much rather see hydraulic shifters and derailleurs and better suspension kinematics and damper circuits than heavy batteries, actuators, sensors, and microprocessors.
    Agreed. There is quite a different UseCase between a road bike and an MTB. The MTB has a lot more exposure to the elements notwithstanding the way the machines get knocked around.

    I personally would not buy a electronic shift MTB as when I do longer wilderness rides and electronics would offer me nothing, other than a residual concern that failure would leave me stranded. On a recent multi-day journey I took a spare derailleur cable and that was my peace-of-mind...

  18. #18
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    2014 Epic

    Quote Originally Posted by mmckechnie View Post
    $5,000 for electronic shifting and suspension? That seems a bit high. You can buy a seriously nice bike for $5,000. I'm thinking more along the lines of another $1,000 to $2,000 and even that is a lot of money.
    Specialized have past history in this area. They've demonstrated previously that if the demand is there then they will hike the price massively from the previous year, and sell out anyway. The Specialized S-Works Epic 29er being a case in point. Why sell a bike for a little more if the target audience will happily pay a high price to "have the best". If anything putting a high price on the item makes it more desirable.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...e-point-32350/

    When it comes to high end Specialized S-Works models the MSRP pricing becomes "aspirational", and the concept of value for money increasingly goes out of the window. At the top end the prices are based on what the market will bear. The S-Works tax is no joke.

    A $5,000 USD increase may sound a lot but it would only be bringing the Epic into line with their road bikes. The Specialized McLaren S-Works Venge being $18,000 USD and the Specialized S-Works Venge Super Record EPS being $14,000 USD.

    You can get an idea of how a future S-Works Epic with electronics may be priced from looking at the current pricing of their flagship road bike, the 2013 Specialized Venge. Specialized publish the US MSRP of the different bikes on their website.

    2013 Venge Expert - Shimano Ultegra Ui2 electronic shifting $4,500 USD
    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bik...dcompact#specs

    2013 S-Works Venge - SRAM Red (2012) mechanical shifting $8,250 USD
    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bik...vengered#specs

    2013 S-Works Venge - Dura Ace Di2 9070 electronic shifting $12,000 USD
    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bik...vengedi2#specs

    The price difference between a $4,500 USD non S-works Venge with carbon fibre frame and Ultegra electronic shifting, and the $12,000 USD S-Works Venge with carbon fibre frame and Dura Ace electronic shifting is $7,500 USD. That's a significant price difference for relatively marginal gains and an S-Works sticker on the downtube.

    The difference in MSRP between the S-Works Venge SRAM Red (2012) mechanical shifting and S-Works Venge Dura Ace Di2 9070 electronic shifting is $3,750 USD. Apart from the drivetrain and brakes those two bikes are almost identical, with the same frame, wheels and finishing kit. This pricing gives an idea of why an S-Works Epic with electronics could cost a lot more also.

    If you look up the MSRP of just the two groupsets this jump in price is more than you'd expect. The difference between the MSRP of the two groupsets being only $1,564 USD. An extra $2,186 USD has been tacked on from somewhere. Because they can.

    SRAM Red 2012 $2,575 USD
    http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...red-road-group

    Shimano Dura Ace Di2 9070 $4,139 USD
    http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...group?page=0,1

    My guess is that you'll see exactly the same thing whenever a future electronic S-Works Epic is first launched also, only you'd have a double hit - Big price increase for the electronic shifting, and then another big increase for the electronic suspension.

    Lower end non S-Works versions with the same functionality, as seen with the Venge Expert, would probably be much cheaper and more reasonably priced. Although they'd be introduced a year or so afterwards. If you want the newest equipment straight away it isn't cheap.

    Cycling is the new golf after all.

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    Kind of seems like high end mountain bikes are becoming something of a status symbol. I guess if they have the money they'll spend it to have the latest and greatest. It makes me wonder if the people who are buying these $10,000+ bikes are out there pushing them hard or if they're posers with really high end equipment.

    If I had $15,000, I'd buy a Epic/Camber, a StumpJumper FSR/Enduro, and a Demo 8 and have 3 really awesome bikes for 3 different types of riding.

  20. #20
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    2014 Epic

    The irony (not lost on me) is that by the time many people are able to actually afford to buy this high end cycling equipment (S-Works, SRAM XX1, Enve XC rims etc) they have also accumulated all the baggage that goes with middle age (a job with long hours, a house and garden that needs maintaining, a demanding wife, kids who need looking after, maybe health issues etc). All things which eat into their available riding time, as they tend to take priority.

    The bikes are purchased initially with good intentions but don't get used as much as intended, due to life getting in the way.

    I'd say that the bike industry is happy regardless, so long as the fashionable rise in the popularity of cycling keeps new customers coming in who are able to afford to buy these expensive bikes and accessories..

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/feat...-new-golf.html

    .

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    I guess the alternative would be to be a bike shop owner or employee or a racer. That way you're getting a serious discount on the bike.

    In reality though, for most of us, these super high end bikes are more of a preview or showcasing of what we can expect to see on our more reasonably priced bikes in 2-3 years.

    People who can afford to buy an S-Works bike are kind of the investors of new technology. They spend a lot of money so that a few years down the road, the rest of us can enjoy the same technology.

  22. #22
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    I consider myself lucky to have participate in the time in MTB'ing where there was the greatest increase in tech/$ ever. When I first started riding back in '92 I had a bike with rim brakes, 8 speeds, 50mm of elastomer shock and a hard tail. It would shake your fillings out to go fast.

    Now I have an S-Works Epic which is simply awesome. I bought it because it offered "value for money" in that I could not put the bike together myself for less than it cost me, and get a warranty.

    Now if I had owned that bike back in '98 when I was a seriously fit and fast athlete. Wow. But that is what this generation of rider has available with the kit. For me, this bike allows me to putter along at the back end of the field ;-)

    Back to the point $5K for electronic shifting? Stupid money for a little or no benefit....

  23. #23
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    There are a few potential advantages to electronic shifting for a mountain bike.

    On a full suspension bike electronic gears would eliminate the gear cable, which should give better more reliable shifting for longer. That would be especially useful on frames which use split cable housing, or have a convoluted cable routing with tight bends. Split gear cable housings with multiple stops on the frame tend to fill with water and mud, the cables rust and they need servicing all the time. The Specialized Epic has a fully enclosed cable run for the rear derailleur but cables sticking and corroding can be a real problem on some bikes.

    Because the gear changers are buttons you're no longer constrained by where they're located on the handlebars. A good example of this is LAN's custom Di2 1x10 setup.

    nobody with Di2 ?



    He took a set of the Shimano Di2 sprint buttons and put one shift button in each grip. The small black button in the picture above is a Di2 sprint button, so that you shift down through the gears with the right hand and up through the gears with the left hand, never needing to relax your grip on the handlebars. I really like the idea of that.

    Used with a front derailleur one of the strengths of the electronic shifting is supposed to be accurate and reliable front chainring shifts, even under heavy pedalling load and covered in mud.

    The downsides that I can see are the increased potential for electrical issues when used in rain and mud (Di2 electronic shifting is successfully used in cyclocross races so it may not be an issue), the need to remember to charge the battery every few months (there is a get you home mode and warnings apparently if the battery does go flat whilst riding) and the greater likelihood of a stick or rock breaking the fragile rear derailleur offroad. It's bad enough knowing that you've destroyed a $260 USD SRAM X0 rear derailleur. The prospect of an unfortunate stick totalling your $760 USD Di2 electronic rear derailleur is heart breaking.
    Last edited by WR304; 05-07-2013 at 04:00 PM.

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    Only ride what you can afford to replace.

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    2014 Epic

    If I could guess what is coming is a change of suspension and a change in geometry with shorter stays and a long top tube with shorter stems

    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    Only ride what you can afford to replace.
    Absolutely.

    (Best viewed with the sound turned up.)

    <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rNLN0uX0uw0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Absolutely.

    (Best viewed with the sound turned up.)
    Better the bike than the rider in this case. Yikes!

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    Wow. That would suck.

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    Not very revolutionary, but they should put kashima coating on more bikes in the range, at the very least the marathon and expert. Fox has it on their mid range forks, so Specialized should put it on their $6k+ bikes.

    As for the electronic shifting, I think it's pretty lame they aren't wireless in this day and age...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbco1975 View Post
    As for the electronic shifting, I think it's pretty lame they aren't wireless in this day and age...
    Bigger drain on the battery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmckechnie View Post
    Bigger drain on the battery.
    LOL. A $30 wireless bike bike computer uses two small batteries which lasts a couple of years and that's constantly sending messages while riding. You don't constantly shift, so similar size of battery should last well over 10 years just supporting wireless messaging.

    I think it's more they'll introduce wireless in a couple of years so people want to upgrade. The technology is there now...

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    Maybe the problem is interference. Ever ride beside someone and they start reading your heart rate on their monitor? Maybe I would shift your bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbco1975 View Post
    LOL. A $30 wireless bike bike computer uses two small batteries which lasts a couple of years and that's constantly sending messages while riding. You don't constantly shift, so similar size of battery should last well over 10 years just supporting wireless messaging.

    I think it's more they'll introduce wireless in a couple of years so people want to upgrade. The technology is there now...
    The 2 shifters would have to be in constant communication between the 2 derailleurs. That's 4 radios that require power. Also going this route requires requires 3 or 4 batteries, one for each shifter and one for each derailleur.

    Also going wireless comes with it's own set of issues, lag, interference, syncing/pairing, disconnections, etc. Just more to go wrong.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Absolutely.

    (Best viewed with the sound turned up.)

    <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rNLN0uX0uw0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    He wouldn't have been riding an Epic on that trail so it's cool.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbpri View Post
    I saw a prototype on the trail and it had fox electronic front and rear lockout. i hope they get rid of the brain system and go with fox electronic lockout for sure
    No
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    I'm primarily hoping for shorter stays, similar to the 2014 enduro. I'm in the market for a FS race bike next year, so If they can get sub 17" chainstays on the epic they'll have a 99% sure sale. If they can get the geometry dialed I'm guessing they would sell like hot cakes compared to all the other longer chainstay FS 29ers on the market. Might force other companies to respond, which is a good thing for FS 29ers in general.

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    2014 Epic

    Don't be surprised if they ditch the front derailleur for good on the upcoming Epic and make it a 1x only bike.

    SRAM is coming out with more options and I wouldn't be surprised to see Shimano follow.

    If they make a dedicated 1x frame only they can tuck in the wheel and make shorter than 17" stays. I'm guessing 16.9" stays. Kick out the head angle. Lengthen the top tube and shorten the stem and you got a killer XC machine capable of going up and down.

    Also ditch the 142+. It limits people wanting to buy other wheelsets.

    Erik

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    Yes, I read the article on the S-Works Enduro where Spec talked about shortening the chainstays, and it seems pretty clear that this will be a major initiative for the next generation of Epic. They have had 4 years on this generation of bike, and they have been a major step change in both performance and reliability. They will also be looking at the sales numbers of the 2013 bike, the 2x10 Shimano vs the X11 SRAM and will make decisions accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    No
    Agreed. I don't want to see too many changes- it's already a great XC bike, I don't want them to compromise it's strengths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    Also ditch the 142+. It limits people wanting to buy other wheelsets.
    Erik
    Any 142 wheelset will fit a 142+ frame. It's the other way around that won't work. E.g. if you buy a complete build, you can't use the 142+ wheels on a non 142+ frame.

    http://justridingalong.com/docs/roval-compatibility.pdf

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    Actually, in many cases you can use a 142+ in a142 frame - if just depends on the clearance on the RHS chainstay....

  42. #42
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    Not sure where all the talk about shorter chainstays is coming from. The current model handles incredialbly well with no real flaws. Same with the Brain suspension. The electronic stuff is simply a push button way to lock the suspension out. That's never been the Epics MO. It's always been about the bike doing all the work for you so you can focus on riding. How many major races/championships has this bike won? Not sure how you improve it without screwing it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPICYZ View Post
    Not sure where all the talk about shorter chainstays is coming from. The current model handles incredialbly well with no real flaws. Same with the Brain suspension. The electronic stuff is simply a push button way to lock the suspension out. That's never been the Epics MO. It's always been about the bike doing all the work for you so you can focus on riding. How many major races/championships has this bike won? Not sure how you improve it without screwing it up.
    Specialized have been dropping some fairly heavy hints about moving towards shorter chainstays for their 29ers. At the moment the 430mm chainstays on the new Specialized Enduro 29er (155mm rear travel) are 18mm shorter than the 448mm chainstays on their flagship cross country bike, the Epic 29er (100mm rear suspension travel). That length difference is something that's unlikely to stay the same in future, if only for marketing purposes where shorter chainstays are often seen as a measure of a bike's responsiveness.

    2014 Epic

    Although the current Fox ICD suspension is only a manual lockout (there are rumours of a fully automatic version in development) the Rock Shox E.I. suspension is an automatic version, using accelerometers to rapidly decide whether the suspension should be open or closed.

    First Look: RockShox/Lapierre Show Electronic Shock at Morzine - Pinkbike

    Lapierre + RockShox Launch Auto-adjust E.I. Shock Suspension - BikeRadar


    Rock Shox E.I. Suspension

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPICYZ View Post
    Not sure where all the talk about shorter chainstays is coming from. The current model handles incredialbly well with no real flaws. Same with the Brain suspension. The electronic stuff is simply a push button way to lock the suspension out. That's never been the Epics MO. It's always been about the bike doing all the work for you so you can focus on riding. How many major races/championships has this bike won? Not sure how you improve it without screwing it up.
    I agree with the sentiment - it's a great bike as evidenced by the titles, and the fact that it hasn't been changed in 3 years. However there is one aspect of the bike that many have mentioned and that is pedal strike due to the low BB height. We know that this is the same as the 26" bike, but the longer chainstays mean that it is effectively less.

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    They will stick with the brain, no electronic shock management, I have no doubt. It's what makes the Epic an Epic. All companies can do electronic so they wouldn't be as unique. The Epic is mainly seen as a Marathon bike and it will be seen as a little more marathon/ trail than before, helped by shorter chain stays, although we know it has done very well as an XC shorter race machine. I think they'll go for something a bit gimmicky for 2014 and also some slightly shorter chainstays. My hunch is that they will also change the HT but leave the Stumpy FSR alone for 1 more year.

  46. #46
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    2014 Epic

    Magura have announced an electronic automatic lockout fork now. It uses an accelerometer to decide whether the fork damper should be open or closed, so that the fork is locked out climbing but open as soon as you begin descending. It uses a wireless bluetooth remote in case you want to override the automatic mode and is also the lightest version of the fork.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...on-fork-37433/


    Magura Eelect electronic automatic fork damper

    I though you might be interested in this other article on Bikeradar too, commenting on the phenomenon of the "electrical". Where all the bike's electronics can fail when used in very wet conditions, without an easy fix.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...ctrical-37403/

    .

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    2014 Epic

    I can't see them getting rid of the brain. It is what defines Specialized. I could see them utilizing new technology with the brain. Maybe being able to change the settings on the brain on the fly via electronics.

    Weik

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    I think that Magura shock would work well with the Epic in the sense of just ride it and it takes care of the lockout for you. I think that the Magura fork is also a better replacement that the current brain forks. I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of electronics on my mountain bike. But only having to charge a battery after 40 hours of riding sounds pretty good. That's probably around once a year for me.

    Hopefully Specialized and Magura are working together. Seeing them add Magura brakes on 2013 over the Avid brakes was a good step.

  49. #49
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    Brain sensor is on the non-suspended suspension part, whereas magura is on the suspended part, so the actual Magura design will never be has efficient as actual mechanical brain.

    Lapierre smart shock system is much better. I think GermanA alos made a system with similar technology some years ago
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    2014 Epic

    This is quite an interesting thread about Di2 rear derailleurs and frame gear hangers. It's not something I'd really considered.

    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...c.php?t=116461

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    I found that thread last night. I have Di2 on my cross bike. I'll report if the hanger breaks.

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    2014 Epic

    How do you break six gear hangers in six months? It seems fairly excessive.

    "I was just riding along and then..."

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    and it's in the ROAD bike forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Knowing
    Specialized have been dropping some fairly heavy hints...
    The word?
    Last edited by GSJ1973; 07-02-2013 at 05:57 AM.

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    I think the Sworks Epic is just going to get minor improvements to the SID fork plus black anodized stanchions, maybe the new XTR 987 Brakes and RT99 Rotors, for the shimano version. as far as the frame I would like to see if they go with a new higher grade carbon to make it even lighter, like the did on Nibalis tarmac. even do i doubted for 2014

  56. #56
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    2014 Epic

    In past years the Specialized dealer launch has been mid July. In 2012 articles about the new Specialized bikes appeared online around 12 July.

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    First photos & basic specs & highlights are on First Look: Specialized Releases the 2014 Epic 29er | News | mountain-bike-action pretty underwhelming for an all new bike really.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    Durian, I heard they are putting it on a vegan diet.
    So now it will be a sub 9kg bike out of the box?

  59. #59
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    The biggest improvement is the 2014 bike comes with a tool box attached to the frame...

    Looks like a run out 2013 model epic is the bargain to grab.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRJUCY View Post
    First photos & basic specs & highlights are on First Look: Specialized Releases the 2014 Epic 29er | News | mountain-bike-action pretty underwhelming for an all new bike really.
    Thanks for posting that, I've been pretty curious but agree that it's underwhelming. I'm surprised that they didn't even claim that it's lighter.
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    The article says the s-works epic is 50 grams lighter, and alu epics are 200 grams lighter. The SWAT thing looks interesting but hard to imagine its going to cost less then a $15 dollar saddle bag. I wonder if the 50 gram weight saving includes the additional hardware for the swat system.
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    At least they're finally getting rid of their stupid 142+ "standard" and going with standard QR15 this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fontarin View Post
    At least they're finally getting rid of their stupid 142+ "standard" and going with standard QR15 this year.
    142+ and QR15 are different things. 142 is rear and QR15 is front. I am assuming they are keeping the 142+ as there is no reason to change. 142+ as well as 142 wheels work, you just might not be able to use a 142+ wheel in a non 142+ frame, which I don't think they are too worried about.

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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by durianrider View Post
    The biggest improvement is the 2014 bike comes with a tool box attached to the frame...

    Looks like a run out 2013 model epic is the bargain to grab.

    -nicer frames
    -better graphics
    -improved Brain valve ( once again)
    -new shock clevis
    -QR 15
    -double bottle cage
    -SWAT thing for those who care ( I use a backpack all the times)

    Go ahead and buy a 2013 bike,that would be a good bargain (considering a 2013 Marathon myself) but that would be more or less the same bike from 2011 and 2012,obslete that is.

    Kudos to Specialized for making an already perfect bike an even better one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tooclosetosee View Post
    142+ and QR15 are different things. 142 is rear and QR15 is front. I am assuming they are keeping the 142+ as there is no reason to change. 142+ as well as 142 wheels work, you just might not be able to use a 142+ wheel in a non 142+ frame, which I don't think they are too worried about.
    I know they're different. They're getting rid of the 142+, and going to 15QR in front this year. A good improvement in my opinion - one less proprietary piece.

    Edit: I'm referring to the OS24/28 standard in the front when I say 142+, because that's the way I've heard Spec dealers refer to it. It's basically just an oversized QR. If you want to change out your wheelset, you go to a normal QR (on the stock fork, at least).

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    2014 Epic

    Absolutely. It an a 142 Stan's wheels set on my Epic and the chainline sucked. You would think 2mm wouldnt make a difference but it does if you cross chain with a 2x10.

    Erik

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    OS24/28 has nothing to do with 142 or 142+. It uses the same QR as a regular QR, not a bigger one. The only thing that OS24/28 was a larger flange to rest against the inside of the fork lowers.

    I have yet to read that they are doing away with 142+.

    I like the move to QR15 and really don't know why they didn't do it for 2013. Pretty much my only regret of buying a 2013 Epic and not a 2014.

    Also 19.9 pounds for the Epic WC? Is that right?? My Epic is 24 pounds with the following. I don't see where 4 pounds would come from. I know it is lighter wheels by 70 grams, lighter cassette, no pedals, no bottle cages, lighter tires, but still.... sub 20 pounds?

    2013 Epic Comp Carbon stock except
    Roval Control SL wheels
    Racing Ralphs EVO SS
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    Ritchey Superlogic Post
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    XX1 cranks (dropped FD and Front Shifter)
    Xpedo Pedals
    Z Cage
    ESI grips
    Syntace F109 stem

  69. #69
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    So I have a 2013 and was looking forward to the redesign to see how obsolete my 5 month old bike has become. The second bottle mount is huge as is the 15qr. Side from that I am unsure of the big deal. The weight saving is moot with the swat added in 150 dollar option and you lost some of your brain adjustment own the low end and a 500 dollar price increase on the frame set. The clevis is not a huge deal to me the epic is out the brain shock. Not sure if this innovation is for me...,

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooclosetosee View Post
    Also 19.9 pounds for the Epic WC? Is that right??
    No it's not. Here is a review of a Small and they say it's 10.7kg with 400+g pedals. So no pedals = ~10.3kg which is ~22.7lbs. Still pretty nice weight though.

    Google Translate

    Great to see 1x / no FD specific frames being built.

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    May sell my '12 Epic Expert and jump to the new Camber Expert Evo, looks like a nice do it all-style bike. Not a fan of the new black anodized stanchions on the new '14 RS forks...
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbco1975 View Post
    No it's not. Here is a review of a Small and they say it's 10.7kg with 400+g pedals. So no pedals = ~10.3kg which is ~22.7lbs. Still pretty nice weight though.

    Google Translate

    Great to see 1x / no FD specific frames being built.
    That has a part alloy rear end so its not the full carbon World Cup version. I though can't see them getting in near the 19.5lbs as my 2012 s works pimped out with all lighter parts than original hits the scales at around 21.5 including pedals

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    did they have to completely redsign the frame in order to get the second bottle cage in there or could this have happened whenever the first generation of this frame came out. the double bottle cages and swat is a great update. not enough to sell my 13 but enough that I wish I had it.

    does anybody know if that multitool will fit on older epics?

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    Worth noting there is no quick release on the rear so you'll need that mini tool to get the rear wheel off if you need to change tyre trail side or if you need to remove the wheel to put it on the boot of your car etc. Really to me the couple of grams of the handle is well worth it.

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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel View Post
    Thanks for posting that, I've been pretty curious but agree that it's underwhelming. I'm surprised that they didn't even claim that it's lighter.
    Likes:
    1) 8.9kg for an SW large is pretty damn impressive.
    2) More rigid frames (the chainstays look completely new, and obviously the frame itself has completely new shapes),
    3) Completely redesigned shock mounting with the bottom pivot looking much stronger laterally
    4) Redesigned bearings shields looking more impervious to dust
    5) new s-works crank with integrated spider and 1-piece spindle (no more ultra-torque) looks very nice
    6) 15mm front end,
    7) internal cable routing (no more BB cable bulge!)

    Also, a dedicated x11 model is a great idea, shorten the chainstay, the wheelbase and sharpen the handling.

    Dislikes:
    1) lack of a rear axle handle is silly
    2) lack of brain fade detents on the fork is strange

    Looks like a nice upgrade.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    did they have to completely redsign the frame in order to get the second bottle cage in there or could this have happened whenever the first generation of this frame came out. the double bottle cages and swat is a great update. not enough to sell my 13 but enough that I wish I had it.

    does anybody know if that multitool will fit on older epics?
    This article explains about the SWAT toolkit. You can get a multitool that fits on a standard cage and the chaintool is universal.

    2014 Specialized Calls in the SWAT ? Innovative Storage, Water, Air, and Tool Solutions

    The spare tube box needs the rivnut on the frame though. There's not enough room in the frame triangle of a 2013 or older Epic to fit it in.

    For the top tube/ rear shock placement redesign have a look at the picture here as it shows clearly the changes that were made:

    Posts #151 and #152 in the main 2014 Specialized thread
    Specialized 2014???

    .

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    This article explains about the SWAT toolkit. You can get a multitool that fits on a standard cage and the chaintool is universal.

    2014 Specialized Calls in the SWAT ? Innovative Storage, Water, Air, and Tool Solutions

    The spare tube box needs the rivnut on the frame though. There's not enough room in the frame triangle of a 2013 or older Epic to fit it in.

    For the top tube/ rear shock placement redesign have a look at the picture here as it shows clearly the changes that were made:

    Posts #151 and #152 in the main 2014 Specialized thread
    Specialized 2014???

    .
    didn't realize how different they made the front triangle until I saw that overlayed picture. thanks for the info.

  78. #78
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    More pictures and info:
    Gallery: Specialized launches revamped 2014 cross-country line
    It's growing on me but I'll be happy enough buying a cast off 2013 Carbon frame on ebay to replace my 2012 aluminum frame.
    2 wheels

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    A little more info here.
    Specialized Shows the 2014 Goods
    I know I'm the only one who cares but the move to 27.2 seat posts sucks for dropper users.
    2 wheels

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    Last one and probably best. Here the Epic line is broken down by model with prices.
    2014 Specialized Mountain Bikes ? New Epic, Mini-Brain, Roval Carbon SL Wheels, & More!
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    RE: 2014 Epic

    Moda, yeah I thought he was asking about the expert as it doesn't make sense to compare the. Comp frame to the s-works as its diff carbon, alloy stays etc.

    Either way 22.7 for expert should mean a sub 20lbs s-works. 2013 marathon frame alone was half a pound lighter than the expert, s-works will be even bigger diff. New lighter control SL wheels carbon bars, ligher stem etc should shave a few pounds off the expert.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbco1975 View Post
    No it's not. Here is a review of a Small and they say it's 10.7kg with 400+g pedals. So no pedals = ~10.3kg which is ~22.7lbs. Still pretty nice weight though.

    Google Translate

    Great to see 1x / no FD specific frames being built.
    As mentioned, this is an Expert WC bike. So the chain stays are alu, the frame isn't made of as nice carbon, the parts spec isn't as good as the S-Works.

    I had an S-works 2012 Epic down to 21.5lbs with Maxxis Ikon tires, XTR pedals, and a 1x10 setup.

    So, I could see them getting very close to the claimed weight with the new lighter wheels, 27.2mm seat post, lightened frame, and what I'm sure are hand picked Renegade S-works tires.

    I'd love to get one... but $5500 for the frame and fork are really getting into the absurd.

  83. #83
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    Anyone know what size seatpost the new epic will take? 30.9 still?

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-bike View Post
    Anyone know what size seatpost the new epic will take? 30.9 still?

    No, I believe its now 27.2. I think I got that from twentynineinches.com For me, that's a huge downgrade as it limits dropper choice... if you want to run one. I've been saying that to anybody who will listen :-)

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    Thank you for the info, if this is true I agreed it would be a major set back. I know plenty of people who enjoy using a Reverb Stealth with their current S-Works Epic and this would not be an option. I will still most likely get a Epic World Cup but would be bummed until/if the stealth becomes available in a 27.2.

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    The Epic WC is definitely very high on my want list! Looks awesome, except the price

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    Can someone confirm the brain tune settings for 2014? It seems there are 5 settings from ht like firm to the 5th most open setting. The WC version is tuned firmer then the XC version. So do the 5 settings ofthe xc version mirror the current settings of the 12/13 version or did they take the the two most open/active settings off the XC version. I ride my current bike one click from open so say I would call it the 6th click on the current version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limba View Post
    Maybe the problem is interference. Ever ride beside someone and they start reading your heart rate on their monitor? Maybe I would shift your bike.
    OMG! I can think of a dozen guys that "need" my help shifting. That would be sweet!

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    I wish I wouldn't have seen this thread. I may be a specialized convert now. Excited to see where the 2013 epic prices go now, and even more excited for next year when I can afford one of these new 2014s used!

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    Really like the look of the Expert WC, nicer frame than the standard Expert and comes with X01, but spendy though.

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    Ordered my 2014 S-works epic in Red XX1 build. The price is $10500. I did not get the get WC version. If you have a Specialized Concept store in your area, you can order them now, ship date is Oct.



    Every excited and blessed to have the opportunity to own one.
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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Ordered my 2014 S-works epic in Red XX1 build. The price is $10500. I did not get the get WC version. If you have a Specialized Concept store in your area, you can order them now, ship date is Oct.



    Every excited and blessed to have the opportunity to own one.

    Congratulations !! Good choice on the non WC version. Given your bike portfolio I hope you've got some fair discount

  93. #93
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    Just trying to figure out the who would ride the WC.Looking at the reviews it seems Spez has built a HT that looks like a duel.99% of people riding WC are riding a HT and that aint going to change soon.I've currently got a epic for stage racing and a ht for lap racing.Was thinking about the WC but not after the reviews.I can't see why anyone would choose that over a HT.

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    I would much rather have the WC than a standard. Quicker handling through the HTA and most importantly, the shorter chain stays. It's going to be much more capable than a HT on rough courses and you can easily run the fork at 100mm (or more) if you want by pulling a spacer.

    I had an S-works Epic 29er last season and sold it halfway through... too long of WB for my liking. Just wasn't well suited for my riding style and local(isn) races. Now, having it down in AR and out west on various trips and vacations was awesome.

    Having a bit shorter WB version would rock. I've ran 1x10 setups for years anyhow, so I don't need any provision for a FD mount.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillie View Post
    Just trying to figure out the who would ride the WC.Looking at the reviews it seems Spez has built a HT that looks like a duel.99% of people riding WC are riding a HT and that aint going to change soon.I've currently got a epic for stage racing and a ht for lap racing.Was thinking about the WC but not after the reviews.I can't see why anyone would choose that over a HT.
    I guess it's part of a big marketing scheme. Even if you are around 35/45 years old and don't race or don't race anymore the excuse is you still want to feel like that but at 40 you can't get your back hammered like you used to at 20 years old. And you still want to feel sharp and snappy like you were at 20 years old. Enter the WC Epic.
    I would not get a WC Epic as an only bike but as a Stumpy FSR 29 owner already I would probably get one. Missing my psycho F29 C3 but I just could not take the beatings anymore,the WC Epic would be perfect for the occasional workout sweaty rides.

  96. #96
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    I liked the idea of the shorter chainstay,less travel etc but don't like the firm tune that they talked about in the reviews.Sounded like the bike was so firm that I might as well stay on the HT.

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    Trying really really really hard not to order an Epic Expert WC to replace my '13 Epic Expert (which I just paid off). I get a good discount through my team, which makes it even more tempting, and I really want to switch to 1x11. Decisions, decisions... I'm thinking, though, that this fall I'll most likely have the '13 Epic for sale, and a new one on its way to me...

  98. #98
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    Random thoughts -

    I'm 43, don't race anymore and the only people faster than me are Expert class racers. I like/want a race oriented bike even though I have no plans on racing it. I just like to go fast. I think the WC is bad ass. I won't buy one but I really like it.

    XX1 is awesome. I absolutely love it. You just have to make sure you choose the right chainring.

    I like the all white.

  99. #99
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    ^ The all white is growing on me, especially after I googled photos of the black/red version. I typically like all-black bikes, but might go white if I do get one!

  100. #100
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    2014 Epic

    Here's a full list of US and UK prices for the 2014 Specialized bikes.

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...pricing-37953/

    If you live in the UK the whole debate about whether to choose an Epic WC or standard Epic design is academic. The Epic WC bikes aren't being imported at all. Any bike without a UK price listed isn't going to be available apparently.

    2014 Specialized Epic Pricing (USD and GBP):

    Epic FSR Comp 29 $3,300
    Epic FSR Comp Carbon 29. $4,200 £3,200
    Epic FSR Expert Carbon 29. $6,300. £4,500
    Epic FSR Expert Carbon WC 29. $6,750
    Epic FSR Mth Carbon 29. $7,250. £5,200
    S-Works Epic FSR Carbon 29. $10,500. £7,500
    S-Works Epic FSR Carbon 29 Frameset. $5,500
    S-Works Epic FSR Carbon WC 29. $10,500
    S-Works Epic FSR Carbon WC 29 Frameset. $5,500

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