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2013 S-Works Epic SRAM

41K views 84 replies 22 participants last post by  madhead 
#1 ·
Santa Claus came a little earlier and bring me a new race machine...:)

-SW Epic, M
-XX1 with trigger (32, 34, 36 chainrings)
-Syntace bar (Duraflite 630mm, carbon) & Stem (F109, 100mm), ESI Racer Edge grips, Extralite Cyberends
-Magura MT8 with Srub Raceday rotors + ti bolts
-AX lightness Daedalus seatpost + Selle SLR XC saddle + Carbon-Ti X-clamp 3 seat collar
-Roval Control SL 29 142+ wheelset, Tune DC17 Quick Release, front
-Crank Brothers Eggbeater 11
-some ti-bolts...

BR,
Panu
 

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#35 ·
Thats quite nice - are there any problems regarding the integrated chainring? I am also interested in buying one and i think there are even versions available where a smaller chainring can be mounted at the large one. But you save the spider. Are you satisfied with that ring? How is shifting speed/quality?
 
#39 ·
Marcus,

No I do not have pictures on the mt8 but here is the crankset. Scale Technology Electric blue Measuring instrument Postal scale


And with my fat bike:

Tire Wheel Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel Bicycle frame


Tire Bicycle tire Wheel Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel


Bicycle part Bicycle accessory Bicycle Bicycle wheel rim Bicycle frame


It is impressive how the xx1 low the weight the carbon ti chainring it is very good I put 4000 Kilometers on that one ( it had an double xx ) and when removed was almost new,

I finally finished the complete overhauling of this bike,

I had the idea of Ashima ai2 rotors but I do not know, i could drop another 60 grams, formulas works great and the other are the hope "race" not very sure, I still have the scrubs but in long descents are noisy.

Marcus, let me tell you that your bike was the inspiration I do not know if I should go with a low weight wheel set..
 
#43 ·
Wr304,

Which handlebar are you using?
Ritchey products are very good, will try one of those in my fatbike, I have not experimented such flex, maybe your riding is much more agressive than mine, or I did not perceived it. I have used it for about a year...

Thanks


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
#45 ·
Wr304,

Which handlebar are you using?
Ritchey products are very good, will try one of those in my fatbike, I have not experimented such flex, maybe your riding is much more agressive than mine, or I did not perceived it. I have used it for about a year...

Thanks

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
It's a Ritchey Superlogic 10D carbon flat bar (620mm width but with the Specialized ergonomic grips outboard for an actual bar width of 660mm).

http://forums.mtbr.com/9281592-post248.html

The extra backsweep seems to help use your biceps more also. It's something that's difficult to quantify how much it adds but I quite like. I was meaning to try some alt bars too with even more backsweep but didn't get around to it.

My current wheels for the next six months or so have plenty of backsweep on the grips. Having a basket on the front is handy too for carrying food.. I'd much rather be putting more miles on the Epic instead though.;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ztu7ps5iyazaxpe/basket.jpg
 
#46 ·
Speaking of bars, I forgot to ask the OP something based on his setup...

The photos show bar ends. My understanding is that with a carbon bar you must use a metal insert at the end of each side, i.e. it fits into the end of both bars.

PanuV - is that the case here? Just curious - I doubt they'd weigh that much anyway.
 
#47 · (Edited)
@phlegm: that's the Case, You need Bar plugs when using Carbon bars with Bar ends. Mine are Syntace CRB bar plugs, 14g/pair.

@S-Worker: thank You for your tips. I still prefer bars with Bar ends - kind a "old scholl XC guy";) but, let' see because current Bar is widest one I have had... Before I have had Syntace 600mm. With seatback (25mm offset) seatpost I get the best position for me (some back problems), with every Bike I have 55,0 cm from the nose of the saddle to middle of stem.

@cityloopcycles: Have not got change to test my new bike, because of severe winter here In Finland... -10-15C... :p Or I'm not willing to drive full sus Bike In such cold. I do have cyclocross for winter training. But that's very interesting question what is the best gearing for XCO or XCM races? 34, 36? ...Of course depending on venue... That Carbon-Ti X-Monoring what @MarcoL is running is a very fascinating option - with 35 teeth!

@Chris Grechi: Thank You for invitation. There was great bikes on Your Brazilian site!
 
#52 · (Edited)
WR304,

Sorry to know you are injured, get well soon,
regarding the Chainrings, I know that the carbon ti does not have the same configuration as the sram, but, they are much higher than the xx they replace, I am not very sure, but I think the extremely high tension on the RD spring keeps the chain in place.. not very sure, I have to field test.- that is the real thing, and I am not very sure...

Unfortunately I do not have a XX chainring in here to take a pic and compare...
will take more pics with the chain installed

Blue Electric blue Gear Aqua Azure

Pattern
 
#78 ·
#54 ·
From the Bikeradar article there's a list of manufacturers who currently offer Sram XX1 compatible freehubs here:

SRAM XD Driver Body

Probably the lightest hub option would be a Tune Kong XX1 rear hub which is supposed to be available in January 2013.:)

Tune XX1 hubs | Enduro Mountainbike Magazine

Something like these Duke 29er carbon clincher wheels (claimed weight 1175g in 28 hole) would be lighter than the stock Roval wheels. That's with 300g carbon clincher rims. You could get down to 255g per rim but that would mean AX Lightness tubular rims instead of clinchers.

DUKE Lucky Jack 299/TUNE King Kong www.jpracingbike1.com

I think you'll just have to try the chainring and see what happens. You need to balance weight saving and reliability though. When a chain derails (especially on a race bike) it's very frustrating, particularly if it jams at the same time. The Sram XX1 chainring is supposed to keep the chain on better than a standard chainring but I've seen it mentioned that some riders still prefer a chain guide on top for added security.

"SRAM's engineers used video capture to analyze how chains derailed from chainrings. They found one of the most common causes was side-to-side movement, which lead to the chain coming off the top off the chainring as if by shifting. The X-Sync tooth profile reduces side-to-side movement by "snugging up" the interface between the chainring and the chain's outer plates.

The tooth profile of an XX1 chainring is also taller and wider than that of a chainring designed with shifting in mind. XX1 chainrings will be available in 28, 30, 32, 34, 36 and 38-tooth options. SRAM claims that with a properly-sized chain a rider should be able to go one size up or down from the chainring they are running without need to replace the chain."
Bikeradar.com

SRAM XX1: Component Development And Details - BikeRadar

.
 
#55 ·
Anybody else think that these duke lucky jack rims must be kind of fragile? and wobbly ?:)
The claimed lucky jack 299 weight is 299grams, this is 86 grams lighter than enve clincher xc, somethign around 25% lighter, crazy and scary at the same time as enve is already very very light
 
#56 ·
Duke isn't a company that I'm familiar with (do they make their own carbon parts or is it someone else's rim rebadged? ). I'd be interested to know.:)

According to this link the rims are made by Duke in France, possibly in association with Corima. Corima are a well respected manufacturer of carbon fibre rims so that would give me more confidence that the rims are likely to be good quality, rather than generic knock offs. At €594 euros ($789 USD) per rim the pricing is on the premium side.

Very light 700c/29r wheelset from Duke | RedBike

DUKE Lucky Jack 299 Carbon www.jpracingbike1.com

Apparently the Duke Lucky Jack 299 rims use high modulus carbon fibre and are supposed to weigh a maximum of 299g or less. In the link above the 29" carbon clincher rims weighed 290g each. Their wheels weighed 1132g with Extralite hubs (Extralite offer a 142x12mm rear hub but no Sram XX1 freehub option).

There's a rider weight limit of under 75kg (165lb approx) for the Duke Lucky Jack 299 rims and there's sure to be a fairly low maximum tyre pressure inflation limit also. That rider weight limit suggests they're likely to be fairly fragile, more suited to special occasions than everyday use.

When it comes to stiffness my guess would be that the 299g Duke rims would be acceptable. The carbon fibre material being a real game changer when compared to lightweight alloy MTB rims.

At a claimed weight of 385g for an Enve 29 XC rim Enve aren't really pushing the boundaries with the weights of their MTB rims. They have more of an emphasis on durability instead. The Stans NoTubes ZTR Crest 29" alloy rim for example has a claimed weight of 380g, lighter than a Enve 29 XC carbon rim. Although it weighs about the same as a typical carbon rim (Enve, Roval and Light-Bicycle 29" rims are all similar in weight to the ZTR Crest 29" rim) the ZTR Crest 29" rim is nowhere near as stiff as an equivalent weight carbon fibre rim. Even if the superlight 299g Duke carbon rim dropped to ZTR Crest 29" stiffness levels that would be useable as a race day wheelset.:)
 
#77 · (Edited)
Extralite offer a 142x12mm rear hub but no Sram XX1 freehub option.
MarcoL said:
I prefer a lightweight carbon rim than a lightweight aluminum rim at the same weight,
It is not very easy to decide which one is best, since if you broke the wheel you will broke some bones

Which one do you think is best? The one on /r2 or the extralite?
Although it's not listed on their website wheelset page when you go to the website hub page Extralite do have a Sram XX1 freehub now.

Extralite HyperRear



Extralite are one of those companies that I always have mixed feelings about. Their parts are some of the lightest around but that weight saving comes at the price of longevity. Things like the threads that allen bolts screw into are pared down so you only have a few turns available. The threads in my (2009 vintage) Extralite stem were looking close to stripping, which is another reason why I replaced it. The Extralite brass coloured parts are light but that metal is very soft. Where it's used for any sort of threads or allen bolts you have to be careful.

I bought an Extralite Ultrastar2 headset expander and that was terrible. It didn't clamp tightly enough in the RockShox steerer to be able to adjust the headset bearings, and then to finish it off the 8mm allen bolt rounded. I had to hammer it out of the steerer tube. At the same time I bought an Extralite cassette lockring. It didn't have enough thread length to even start tightening on a Sram cassette. Total waste of €48 euros that was.

Saying that, my Extralite front hub was fine without any issues. The Extralite HyperRear hub has a cautionary note on its product page about the freehub mechanism:

"It took more than a year of continuous testing to develop and fine tune the HyperRear full-alloy front-engagement freewheel mechanism.
This new device is able to manage extremely high torque values, it offers 36 quick engagement positions for a precise feel and a minimal friction resistance.
Oversized front engagement freewheel offers a much wider teeth engagement surface to spread the transmission torque on, handles over half-ton of chain pull.
It is a racing assembly sensibly stronger and lighter than our conventional pawls systems, as counterpart coasting is more noisy.
Mileage of freewheel parts is also lower than conventional pawls systems however wearable parts can be easily replaced."
Extralite

I'd be inclined to buy some spare freehub bodies at the same time as the Extralite wheels if you go that route. I only bought a front Extralite hub as I was using my Powertap hub for the rear wheel.

When it comes to the rims themselves I don't know. With newish products you could either wait for more rider feedback to see how solid they are or buy the rims from somewhere that you know is reputable. A store who will definitely look after you if there are any warranty problems.:)

Back on planet earth, I'm keen to try out the Crossmax 29 SLR. At 1620 with an alloy rim, that looks to be a good bet for an all-round wheel. I've got Mavic wheels on family bikes, but would happily own another set.
Unless you're sponsored by Mavic or refuse to use carbon rims (both valid reasons) they don't seem to offer much. Their main selling point hopefully being rim durability I guess. The 2013 Mavic Crossmax 29 SLR wheels are £784.99 GBP ($1268 USD / €959 euros).

Chain Reaction Cycles - 2013 Mavic Crossmax 29 SLR Wheelset

That's not cheap for what's a relatively heavy 1620g wheelset with proprietary spokes and a 19mm inside rim width. Crossmax SLR wheels were highend in 2008 but they haven't kept pace with technological change since then. The increased availability of stiff, wide, affordable and (mostly) reliable carbon fibre rims in 2013 makes them a much harder sell. You could have a set of Roval Control carbon 29 wheels 1580g and a 22mm inside rim width for about the same price.:)

Specialized Bicycle Components

2013 Specialized Wheels & Tires - Aero & Disc Road, Budget Carbon 29er MTB & More! - Bike Rumor

An example of what they're competing against for all round everyday training wheels if you're on a budget would be these light-bicycle.com all mountain wheels 1500g, 23mm inside rim width for £400 GBP ($646 USD / €488 euros) including shipping, which are available in a reinforced rim version. Used with a wide tyre a wider inside rim width gives a better tyre profile for improved grip and handling.

all mountain 29er carbon mtb wheels clincher tubeless wheel ready - light-bicycle

For race wheels the 1620g Crossmax SLR wheelset would be giving away 170g in weight to the stock 1450g Roval Control SL 29 wheelset on your S-Works Epic, and 460g to something like the 1160g Extralite CarboCamber wheels.
 
#57 ·
interesting, I did not know that there are so light alloy rims!! the enve rims are crazy durable, sometimes when I get a flat I still ride them down the hill, there is not even a scratch :) Are there lighter carbon wheels than enve? I only know ax-lightness but their rims are tubular and I would also question their durability...
 
#62 ·
According to a German forum, the Duke rims are made by WR Compositi, an Italian company which makes carbon bicycle parts.
Have a look on the German mtb-news.de forum.
The rims on the extralite wheelset look like the same rims (internal nipples and offset nipple holes).
 
#63 ·
I just read some threads in german mtb forums and in fact it seems that duke rims is the same as wr compositi rims and its the same as the extralite carbocamper rims, can someone else confirm?

I would not trust them normally, but if company like extralite is selling them under their brand name it means they must be pretty good
 
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