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  1. #1
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    2009 E150 compression damping

    I have an 09 E150 fork and the compression adjuster does very little if any adjusting at all. To me it feels the same full soft as it does full hard. Anyone else have any experience with this fork?

  2. #2
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    You need to do a warranty exchange at your LBS.

    If you can't get warranty service how mechanically savy are you, the fix is rather complicated

  3. #3
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    The adjuster is a low speed compression adjust. In the full firm position it will not approach the feeling of a lockout. It will make the fork compression slower/firmer in low speed situations, climbing etc.
    Visit my profile for Links to:

    Performance Guarantee, Service, Setup, E150 Maintenance....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PB Matrix
    You need to do a warranty exchange at your LBS.

    If you can't get warranty service how mechanically savy are you, the fix is rather complicated
    Well, I've rebuilt my old Fox 40 cartridge and I've been doing motorcycle cartridge forks for years. I have also rebuilt a couple older forks. I would rather not bring it to my LBS as I do all my own stuff. I would actually want to fix it myself if possible even before getting it warranteed. I bought this bike used and Spec hasn't replied to my emails yet anyway. Do you have info on the fix? Thanks

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    Well, I've rebuilt my old Fox 40 cartridge and I've been doing motorcycle cartridge forks for years. I have also rebuilt a couple older forks. I would rather not bring it to my LBS as I do all my own stuff. I would actually want to fix it myself if possible even before getting it warranteed. I bought this bike used and Spec hasn't replied to my emails yet anyway. Do you have info on the fix? Thanks
    It's normal not to notice a big difference between firm and soft if you're just standing with the bike and pushing down with your hands. As Speci-Tech noted, the adjustment is only for very slow compression. When I first got the bike, I noticed very little difference as well. Once you get the suspension dialed in, you'll notice a big difference during climbing and pedaling. Firming it up also seems to help resisting bottom out.

    I happen to like a very active and soft suspension, but I keep my compression somewhere in the middle (7 clicks from full soft?).

  6. #6
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    Well let's assume that Shift96 can tell the difference between some and none, as zero times zero is still zero.

    Anyway,
    Remove the cartridge
    Remove the spike valve core
    Compress the shaft
    open the shaft, pull out the guts, drain and STRAIN the oil
    You are looking for a very small cone shaped spring and a pill or oval shaped nut that goes on the very bottom of the piston assembly inside the cartridge.
    If it is still on there, make sure it is tight, if it is off, carefully red locktite it back on. The spring fits only way way and I cannot not remember which side goes up. The FLAT part of the nut goes DOWN towards the spike valve.

    Note 1: Make sure the shaft is fully compressed when you loosen up that one cap, if the wrench slips, it will damage the shaft.
    Note 2: That small nut is a challenge to get back on. the thread pitch is very very tight

    Do the Mik or Mike Mod when you have this thing apart as well.

    Refill with 5W Sram Fork oil for a fairly good starting point. I found that Fox 7.5 was way to thick and Sram 2.5W was to little.

    Refill oil amount is tricky, but add enough oil so that you get hydrualic lock at about 170mm of shaft movment, to little oil and the shaft will stroke about 200mm, too much oil and the shaft will stroke less than 150mm and that is BAD.

    Good luck and post a response to your findings, I like to know if I am right or wrong.
    Last edited by PB Matrix; 11-09-2009 at 05:16 AM.

  7. #7
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    I ride an 07 enduro and want to change out the oil in the damping cartridge to 2.5 wt for the winter, any idea how many cc of 2.5 wt is needed. Also PB Matrix mention a Mik or Mike mod to perform while the cartridge is out, what is the Mike mod? Thank you in advance!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZenduro
    I ride an 07 enduro and want to change out the oil in the damping cartridge to 2.5 wt for the winter, any idea how many cc of 2.5 wt is needed. Also PB Matrix mention a Mik or Mike mod to perform while the cartridge is out, what is the Mike mod? Thank you in advance!
    The Mic mod is cutting out a 3mm section of the white piston band letting fluid by-pass the valving.---( creating a large leak by-passing the valving )

    You are better off re-valving the compression to suit your needs if you have too much or too little compression damping.----------( testing is what you need to do and see what you need )

    Creating this kind of leak around the valving will alter the spike valve threshold and give a less controlled ride, ----( and it is not easy to correct this mod if you do not have some piston band material around to go back to stock)

    The dampner cartridge oil is full with all the air bled out with the floating piston set at 60 to 100 mm set height , then you add 45 psi of nitrogen to the chamber .

    2.5 wt fluid is light and I suggest you try just the fluid , set your piston height back to your stock setting and try it.
    Measure your piston when you take your cartridge appart and record where it was set at.

    You can alter the feel of the fork with oil weights ,different piston heights, and nitrogen pressures.

    Start there at first , I have re-valved several of these and it does not take much of a shim change or spike valve preload to make a big difference .

    If you are a real pounder and love to slam and hammer you may find the 2.5 alittle light .

  9. #9
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    yes, you will not like 2.5 W oil alone, but mixing 75% 5W and 25% 2.5W is an idea.

    Let me know if you need instructions written at the 7th grade level for a person with some simple hand tools for the proper amount of oil to add to the cartridge.

    And in a pinch, you can effectvely add 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and other small amounts of other gasses to your spike valve if you don't happen to have your regulated nitrogen cyclinder filled up today.

  10. #10
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    I would likek some instruction written at the 7th grade level, maybe even 6th grade. I was going to change the oil in mine too. My nitrogen tank is setup for shraeder vavle, is that cool or does it need a special fitting?

  11. #11
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    wait a sec, isn't the spike valve on the bottom of the fork? if so why does it need nitrogen?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    wait a sec, isn't the spike valve on the bottom of the fork? if so why does it need nitrogen?
    Nitrogen is the factory fill in suspension pressure chambers, the nitrogen stays more stable in cold and heat because it has no moisture in it.

    when you use air , the pressure change is quite large and it will affect the damping consistency , and you can sure tell the difference .--( the tires are bad enough to bleed down to correct pressures when hot )

    I know most guys use air in their dampener chambers ( in MX bikes, Trucks and bicycles) and it will work , but its not optimum.------( The e-150 has nitrogen as the factory fill in the IFP chamber )

    Its great you have a nitrogen tank , most all suspension nitro tanks are set up with a schradder adaptor on it so you can use it with all the normal adaptors and needle attachments for forks and shocks .

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    Nitrogen is the factory fill in suspension pressure chambers, the nitrogen stays more stable in cold and heat because it has no moisture in it.

    when you use air , the pressure change is quite large and it will affect the damping consistency , and you can sure tell the difference .--( the tires are bad enough to bleed down to correct pressures when hot )

    I know most guys use air in their dampener chambers ( in MX bikes, Trucks and bicycles) and it will work , but its not optimum.------( The e-150 has nitrogen as the factory fill in the IFP chamber )

    Its great you have a nitrogen tank , most all suspension nitro tanks are set up with a schradder adaptor on it so you can use it with all the normal adaptors and needle attachments for forks and shocks .
    Thanks Kelstr. Yeah, I know why nitrogen is used but I thought it was that shrader valve that is on the bottom of the fork. Now I know it's not. My tank has a shrader and a regulator on it, does it need a needle valve to fill the cartridge chamber? any tutorials on this procedure anywhere?

  14. #14
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    I have a friend who sent his E150 to TF tuned. They will work with you to get a proper tune for your fork. He says his fork is like butter now. Well worth the money to ship it to the UK. Plus the work will not void the warranty. Give em a call maybe.

    http://www.tftunedshox.com/service/specialized.aspx

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    Thanks Kelstr. Yeah, I know why nitrogen is used but I thought it was that shrader valve that is on the bottom of the fork. Now I know it's not. My tank has a shrader and a regulator on it, does it need a needle valve to fill the cartridge chamber? any tutorials on this procedure anywhere?
    The IFP chamber is on the bottom of the RT fork leg , and it is a simple schradder .

    You just slick honey up the IFP "O"ring , slide the IFP piston in the cartridge at your installed height that you had determend it was or what you want to try ( more nitro volume for plusher small bump feel ) , screw the bottom end on the cartridge and fill the upper side up with your chosen suspension fluid untill full and install the cartridge rod /piston assembly , make sure its bled free of air and fill it again and screw on the cap and fill your nitro at 45 and there you go .

    I set the main regulator at around 60 and I have my final guage a schradder adaptor on the cartridge and I hit it up to 60 and then slowly bleed the adaptor down to 45 and then close the schradder and remove the adaptor so I know I have 45 in the IFP chamber .

    It is a quick easy cartridge to build set and fill .

  16. #16
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    so that shrader on the bottom of the right leg with the 10mm nut is supposed to get Nitrogen?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    so that shrader on the bottom of the right leg with the 10mm nut is supposed to get Nitrogen?
    Yes, this in the IFP chamber for the damper cartridge

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    The dampner cartridge oil is full with all the air bled out with the floating piston set at 60 to 100 mm set height , then you add 45 psi of nitrogen to the chamber .
    Kelstr, thanks for all the useful information I was not aware that the oil volume inside the damper cartridge would be a possible way of tuning the small bump sensitivity of the fork

    Where is this measurement of 60 to 100 mm set height for the floating piston taken from? Is it from the bottom end of the schrader valve to the underside of the floating piston or is it from the top of the cartridge (with the seal head removed) to the top surface of the floating piston? My personal preference is for better small bump plushness on the E150. On fast descents when the fork is working hard it feels great & well controlled. On slower speeds over stutter bumps, especially under braking, it feels harsh. By the way, I weigh 80kg (176lb) suited up & ride a medium 2007 Enduro SL which I purchased as a demo model at the beginning of 2009, when my old ride, a 2003 Enduro led to an untimely demise over a jump.

    I have experimented with machining up a revised piston on 2nd stage compression circuit to allow more volume to flow through (basically drilling more holes in the piston with 4 small holes). This was great for small bump plushness but made the fork worse under high speed descents: it felt less controlled. I am currently experimenting with an acetal ring on the main damper piston which allows oil to bleed through under compression with greatly effecting the rebound (the Mik mod suggested by PB Matrix also speeds up the rebound as a side effect). I will post pictures of the concept (CAD models) if it is successful. I have only had one ride, & the jury is still out. The beauty of this modification is that it can be made by a lay person with only basic tools such a cutting knife, needle files or fine metal hack saw blade, sticky tape & a single 3.5mm wide x 68.5mm long strip of 1.0mm thick acetal sheet. It is also completely reversible.

  19. #19
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    Hi,

    does anyone know the maximum pressure in the IFP. I think i had read about up to 75 psi in the first years, reducing the pressure to 50 +-+5 psi in 2009. I would try a higher pressure because i dont need a fluffy/soft fork. I need more damping because i had 200lbs and with 75 psi the spike valve should open later. Also i need more low speed damping, but my rebound is just 2 klicks from the fastest. So i think its not a good idea to change the oil to 7,5. Is there another way ?

    Thanks
    Schrotty

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrotty View Post
    Hi,

    does anyone know the maximum pressure in the IFP. I think i had read about up to 75 psi in the first years, reducing the pressure to 50 +-+5 psi in 2009. I would try a higher pressure because i dont need a fluffy/soft fork. I need more damping because i had 200lbs and with 75 psi the spike valve should open later. Also i need more low speed damping, but my rebound is just 2 klicks from the fastest. So i think its not a good idea to change the oil to 7,5. Is there another way ?

    Thanks
    Schrotty
    Only 2.5W

  21. #21
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    Well looks like you are being taken care. I just wanted to chime in and say that you should definitely be able to tell the difference between the extremes on the compression dial.

  22. #22
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    well I dunno about the bounce test, but I can certainly tell while riding down the street. Even with each set of three different internals, its always been noticeable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chameleoneel View Post
    Well looks like you are being taken care. I just wanted to chime in and say that you should definitely be able to tell the difference between the extremes on the compression dial.
    Not really. I was told by Josh at Specialized that you may not feel the difference between the extremes in the gargage doing the bounce test. I had the same concerns

  24. #24
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    I also defintely feel a difference ! Because i have a weight of 100kg with clothes and the other stuff, i think a little bit more LSC or a later opening by the HSC Valve is better for me. And so i asked for the maximum pressure! If i set the Pressure to 45psi it is to soft for me. But i like it to ride a bike which dont have the fluffy/flush Fox-typically damping. I dont need that my bike is sucking every little stone, i need standup hard at steps and in technical sections.

    Sorry for my poor english, i am a foreigner...
    Riding in the green Heart of Europe

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