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  1. #1
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    2006 SJ FSR Comp or 2005 SJ FSR Expert

    I was wondering if I could get some opinions.

    I am currently riding a 2004 SJ FSR Comp and love it except that I should have paid the extra $$ and got the Expert with the Fox Fork. I also found that my bottom bracket would hit obstacles more than my Giant Rainier. I know it is a hardtail vs fsr, but from what I have read, the BB for the SJ is a complaint by some people. Other than that I love the bike.

    However, I've decided to sell my 2004 and buy a new bike. I have found the new 2006 Comp for $2800 (All prices in Canadian) or a 2005 FSR Expert for $2300. I ride both cross country and technical rocks, logs, etc. I wanted an all around bike. I am about 5'10 165lbs.

    The differences between the 2 bikes that I know of are in and would like your opinion on:
    (2005 Expert v 2006 Comp)
    Fork - Talas RL v Fox Float 120 RL
    Rear Shock - Septune v Triad
    Brakes/levers - Shimano 765 XT v Avid Juicy 5
    Front Derailleur - Shimano M570 LX v Shimano M580 LX
    Shift Levers - Shimano M570 LX
    Chain - Shimano HG73 v SRAM PC971 with Powerlink
    Crankset - Custom Shimano Hollowtech, XT Octalink Spline v Truvativ Stylo, 2-pc GXP
    Bottom Bracket - Shimano ES30 v Truvativ GXP, sealed outboard

    I would like your opinion on whether the differences are worth buying the 2005. Oh, the 2006 Expert is $3100

    Thanks for your help
    Trouble027

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble027
    I was wondering if I could get some opinions.

    I am currently riding a 2004 SJ FSR Comp and love it except that I should have paid the extra $$ and got the Expert with the Fox Fork. I also found that my bottom bracket would hit obstacles more than my Giant Rainier. I know it is a hardtail vs fsr, but from what I have read, the BB for the SJ is a complaint by some people. Other than that I love the bike.

    However, I've decided to sell my 2004 and buy a new bike. I have found the new 2006 Comp for $2800 (All prices in Canadian) or a 2005 FSR Expert for $2300. I ride both cross country and technical rocks, logs, etc. I wanted an all around bike. I am about 5'10 165lbs.

    The differences between the 2 bikes that I know of are in and would like your opinion on:
    (2005 Expert v 2006 Comp)
    Fork - Talas RL v Fox Float 120 RL
    Rear Shock - Septune v Triad
    Brakes/levers - Shimano 765 XT v Avid Juicy 5
    Front Derailleur - Shimano M570 LX v Shimano M580 LX
    Shift Levers - Shimano M570 LX
    Chain - Shimano HG73 v SRAM PC971 with Powerlink
    Crankset - Custom Shimano Hollowtech, XT Octalink Spline v Truvativ Stylo, 2-pc GXP
    Bottom Bracket - Shimano ES30 v Truvativ GXP, sealed outboard

    I would like your opinion on whether the differences are worth buying the 2005. Oh, the 2006 Expert is $3100

    Thanks for your help
    Trouble027
    If if your primary complaint is the bottom bracket height, then getting an 05 or 06 is not going to help you. Only the 06 carbon models get the raised BB height. You'd be making a big mistake expecting that the BB height is higher for the 05 and 06 aluminum version from the 04. If you want the FOX up front, then just upgrade.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffunda
    If if your primary complaint is the bottom bracket height, then getting an 05 or 06 is not going to help you. Only the 06 carbon models get the raised BB height. You'd be making a big mistake expecting that the BB height is higher for the 05 and 06 aluminum version from the 04. If you want the FOX up front, then just upgrade.
    Thanks, I didn't realize that.

    I have someone interested in buying my 2004 for about $1500 which means for 800 (plus taxes) I can get the 2005 Expert or for $1300 more I can get the 2006 Comp. Do you have an opinion on which one I should get?

  4. #4
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    Wow that is kind of a tough call.

    Pros of 2005:
    Talas fork
    $500 more in your pocket to spend on upgrades (wheels?)

    Pros of 2006:
    Triad shock
    Higher BB
    .5 degree slacker head angle (this is more of a difference, I think to me it would be a plus)

    IMO, the rest of the parts differences are not really an issue, although if you are a masher the Stylo might be a bit more durable and is probably lighter. Not sure about this. Some might also argue that the XT brakes are better.

    If the BB height thing really bugs you and the price difference doesn't matter that much, I would maybe lean toward the 2006 bike- you can swap out parts but not frame geometry. And the Triad shock is better.

    OTOH, if the BB height issue is just something you notice occasionally but not that big of a deal, and if money is a serious issue, the 2005 might be a better deal. I really like having the adjustability of the Talas. And the Septune isn't bad- how much would you miss having a lockout? That's my major gripe with the shock...

    FWIW, I own a 2005 Stumpy 120 Pro frame, Talas fork, Septune shock, Juicy 7's, most other parts swapped out. I love this bike, except for the Septune (see the other threads where we are beating that topic to death...)

  5. #5
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    Just checked Specialized site, and Daffunda is right- the BB height is listed as 332mm for both bikes.

    That swings it toward the 2005 bike for me- Talas fork and $500 in your pocket.

  6. #6
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    I'd keep the current bike and upgrade the fork. 04 to 05 or 06 is not worth it, in my opinion. But if someone wants your current bike, I'd get the 05.

  7. #7
    mechmann_mtb
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    go for the 05 Expert.

    great bike.

    if you want to drop weight, get a nice 05 XT or XTR crankset and drop half a pound (the external BB drops gobs of steel off the frame and makes it way lighter)

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    Daffunda, do you have any thoughts on Shimano vs Avid brakes, specifically XT vs Juicy 5 vs Juicy 7?
    What about Fox Float 120RL vs Fox Talas RL 90-130mm?

    Riverrat, I saw your setup, so I know your bias, but do you have any thoughts I should consider?

    Thanks to both for your help.
    Trouble027

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble027
    Daffunda, do you have any thoughts on Shimano vs Avid brakes, specifically XT vs Juicy 5 vs Juicy 7?
    What about Fox Float 120RL vs Fox Talas RL 90-130mm?

    Riverrat, I saw your setup, so I know your bias, but do you have any thoughts I should consider?

    Thanks to both for your help.
    Trouble027
    Juicys will be easier to set up- they have the "Caliper Positioning System" (CPS) as opposed to the shims used to align the XTs. XTs are supposed to be excellent brakes though. They use mineral oil as opposed to the less enviro friendly DOT brake fluid in the Juicys. Some people complain about the "shuddering" issue with Juicys, but I have had few problems with mine. My wife really liked her Deores which are very similar to XT.

    Talas has a more linear feel throughout its travel, Floats tend to ramp up more.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble027
    Daffunda, do you have any thoughts on Shimano vs Avid brakes, specifically XT vs Juicy 5 vs Juicy 7?
    What about Fox Float 120RL vs Fox Talas RL 90-130mm?

    Riverrat, I saw your setup, so I know your bias, but do you have any thoughts I should consider?

    Thanks to both for your help.
    Trouble027
    Avid brakes seem to have a bit stronger braking power. I tried both, and Avid seems to be more powerful, but Shimano is quieter. Avid squeaks, but just a little bit. I don't know about the TALAS.

    As for the crankset, I have Raceface Deus. People seem to give bad reviews about this crank, but I think those guys didn't even use a torque wrench to install it. (That's why USA is famous for lawsuits right? Blame something on others even if it is one's own fault.) For me, the Deus is awesome, as it is lightweight and super stiff. Deus is a tad lighter than XT. 815g vs 860g. If you are a weight weenie, then I guess you would care. Other than the weight, XT and Deus is pretty much equal.

  11. #11
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    I would start looking for end of season deals on an 05 Expert - I'm sure you can get a deal now that the 06's are out. I had troubles finding an XL awhile back, but struck out with a perfect condition used for a helluva deal. I love it. Just determine whether you want the 100, or the 120. I got the 100 - beautiful paint. The low BB just teaches you to watch your feet sometimes; once you get rocked one time, you learn to watch it from there. I agree with the crank upgrade though - I threw on new XTs - big weight difference as mechmann_mtb said. Good luck!
    If the rig made the rider, I'd be pro...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble027
    I also found that my bottom bracket would hit obstacles more than my Giant Rainier. I know it is a hardtail vs fsr, but from what I have read, the BB for the SJ is a complaint by some people. Other than that I love the bike.
    If the low BB is your only problem, why don't you first try (a combination of) the following:

    1. Run slightly higher pressure in your rear shock or use ProPedal instead of open-mode on rearshock assuming you hit the pedals pedaling terrain with roots or rocks. Using ProPedal probably prevents you hitting anything.
    2. Low profile pedals (I'm using the new Ritchey V4 pedals), saves about 5mm (and this does work for me).
    3. Bigger tires (2.25 or bigger, preferably rounder tires with a higher side-wall)

    I can't imagine you'd still run you pedals against anything after trying these options! :-)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble027
    I was wondering if I could get some opinions.

    I am currently riding a 2004 SJ FSR Comp and love it except that I should have paid the extra $$ and got the Expert with the Fox Fork. I also found that my bottom bracket would hit obstacles more than my Giant Rainier. I know it is a hardtail vs fsr, but from what I have read, the BB for the SJ is a complaint by some people. Other than that I love the bike.

    However, I've decided to sell my 2004 and buy a new bike. I have found the new 2006 Comp for $2800 (All prices in Canadian) or a 2005 FSR Expert for $2300. I ride both cross country and technical rocks, logs, etc. I wanted an all around bike. I am about 5'10 165lbs.

    The differences between the 2 bikes that I know of are in and would like your opinion on:
    (2005 Expert v 2006 Comp)
    Fork - Talas RL v Fox Float 120 RL
    Rear Shock - Septune v Triad
    Brakes/levers - Shimano 765 XT v Avid Juicy 5
    Front Derailleur - Shimano M570 LX v Shimano M580 LX
    Shift Levers - Shimano M570 LX
    Chain - Shimano HG73 v SRAM PC971 with Powerlink
    Crankset - Custom Shimano Hollowtech, XT Octalink Spline v Truvativ Stylo, 2-pc GXP
    Bottom Bracket - Shimano ES30 v Truvativ GXP, sealed outboard

    I would like your opinion on whether the differences are worth buying the 2005. Oh, the 2006 Expert is $3100

    Thanks for your help
    Trouble027
    I would opt for the '05 Expert myself simply based on the price for what you're getting. Maybe you can get the price a bit down from $2300 too. I was in the market for a '05 Comp, Expert or Devinci Remix 3 back in March and opted for the Comp. If I recall correctly, I paid $2350 (Canadian before taxes) for the Comp, while the Expert and Devinci would have set me back $2570 and $2620 respectively. The '05 Comp vs. the Expert differences are the Black Super RTWD 90-120 fork, Deore Hydros, Deore Shifters and Adrenaline tires (instead of the Pro model). I don't use the RTWD much on my bike, but that's mostly because I ride on the east coast (NB) and there ain't very long hills to climb so I keep it at 120 all the time - I have played with it a bit, but haven't in a while.

    Generally, I love the bike, but there are a few things that annoy me once in a while:
    - I find the front end doesn't feel very stiff, mostly when the bulk of my weight is on it (in dips that ramp back up) and I think that the Fox Talas would have been stiffer. Either way, you'll be getting a Fox which is an upgrade over the Manitou Black.
    - I bang my pedals quite a lot, but the '06 is supposively the same, and that's mostly rider error (caused by fatigue) on my part.
    - I haven't been able to tune my rear shock to a spot where it feels perfect, but I haven't played with it much. I'm 5' 10.5", 175 lbs and have the Septune at roughly 185-190 psi, but it feels linearly soft through its entire travel (my comparaison are with two hardtail MTB and three motocross bikes 15-18 years ago). I don't do any drops, at all, but the riding is very technical and I always, always, bottom out the rear end. I don't know if it's normal, but I would like more progression in the travel. Maybe I should recheck my Septune pressure. To compare with the front end, my Black has stock (Medium) springs and usually uses 3/4 or more of its travel too. Oh yeah, I usually use the Propedal #7 setting, sometimes #4 for rougher trails, and Open when the bike is pointed down.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by trouble027
    I was wondering if I could get some opinions.

    I am currently riding a 2004 SJ FSR Comp and love it except that I should have paid the extra $$ and got the Expert with the Fox Fork. I also found that my bottom bracket would hit obstacles more than my Giant Rainier. I know it is a hardtail vs fsr, but from what I have read, the BB for the SJ is a complaint by some people. Other than that I love the bike.

    However, I've decided to sell my 2004 and buy a new bike. I have found the new 2006 Comp for $2800 (All prices in Canadian) or a 2005 FSR Expert for $2300. I ride both cross country and technical rocks, logs, etc. I wanted an all around bike. I am about 5'10 165lbs.

    The differences between the 2 bikes that I know of are in and would like your opinion on:
    (2005 Expert v 2006 Comp)
    Fork - Talas RL v Fox Float 120 RL
    Rear Shock - Septune v Triad
    Brakes/levers - Shimano 765 XT v Avid Juicy 5
    Front Derailleur - Shimano M570 LX v Shimano M580 LX
    Shift Levers - Shimano M570 LX
    Chain - Shimano HG73 v SRAM PC971 with Powerlink
    Crankset - Custom Shimano Hollowtech, XT Octalink Spline v Truvativ Stylo, 2-pc GXP
    Bottom Bracket - Shimano ES30 v Truvativ GXP, sealed outboard

    I would like your opinion on whether the differences are worth buying the 2005. Oh, the 2006 Expert is $3100

    Thanks for your help
    Trouble027

    The 2006 is 120mm in the rear is the 2005 expert 100 mm or 120 mm?
    your moma's so ugly, one time she looked out of the window and got arrested for mooning

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hass
    The 2006 is 120mm in the rear is the 2005 expert 100 mm or 120 mm?
    All Canadian 2005 SJ were 120 mm: Comp, Expert, Pro and S-Works.

  16. #16
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    New prices - 2006 Expert vs 2005 Expert (diff$500)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild74
    I would opt for the '05 Expert myself simply based on the price for what you're getting. Maybe you can get the price a bit down from $2300 too. I was in the market for a '05 Comp, Expert or Devinci Remix 3 back in March and opted for the Comp. If I recall correctly, I paid $2350 (Canadian before taxes) for the Comp, while the Expert and Devinci would have set me back $2570 and $2620 respectively. The '05 Comp vs. the Expert differences are the Black Super RTWD 90-120 fork, Deore Hydros, Deore Shifters and Adrenaline tires (instead of the Pro model). I don't use the RTWD much on my bike, but that's mostly because I ride on the east coast (NB) and there ain't very long hills to climb so I keep it at 120 all the time - I have played with it a bit, but haven't in a while.

    Generally, I love the bike, but there are a few things that annoy me once in a while:
    - I find the front end doesn't feel very stiff, mostly when the bulk of my weight is on it (in dips that ramp back up) and I think that the Fox Talas would have been stiffer. Either way, you'll be getting a Fox which is an upgrade over the Manitou Black.
    - I bang my pedals quite a lot, but the '06 is supposively the same, and that's mostly rider error (caused by fatigue) on my part.
    - I haven't been able to tune my rear shock to a spot where it feels perfect, but I haven't played with it much. I'm 5' 10.5", 175 lbs and have the Septune at roughly 185-190 psi, but it feels linearly soft through its entire travel (my comparaison are with two hardtail MTB and three motocross bikes 15-18 years ago). I don't do any drops, at all, but the riding is very technical and I always, always, bottom out the rear end. I don't know if it's normal, but I would like more progression in the travel. Maybe I should recheck my Septune pressure. To compare with the front end, my Black has stock (Medium) springs and usually uses 3/4 or more of its travel too. Oh yeah, I usually use the Propedal #7 setting, sometimes #4 for rougher trails, and Open when the bike is pointed down.
    Thanks to everyone for their information. I just found out that I can get the 2006 Expert for only $500 more than the 2005 Expert. The big differences are 2006 (Avid Juicy 7 hydros, triad, XT Hollowtech II crankset/BB) with the 2005 (Shimano 765XT hydros, Septune, ES octolink spline BB)

    I understand that the pedal hitting is probably my own issue. I will be looking at tires and maybe more air pressure to help with this problem.

    Bottom line, I love the bike. I definitely don't like the Black forks that are on my 2004 SJ Comp. I should have opted for the fox fork then.

    Live and learn.

    Trouble

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