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  1. #1
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    09 E150/Avid Juicy brake drag.

    So I've searched and still have the question if anyone else has bad front brake drag with this set up? I've looosened everything, tightened slowly with the brake on. Took a Juicy 7 caliper from another bike with no drag, put it on and it drags. Should I try another brake adapter? I was thinking of trying a floating rotor also, that used to fix the problem on my motorcycle track bikes. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    So I've searched and still have the question if anyone else has bad front brake drag with this set up? I've looosened everything, tightened slowly with the brake on. Took a Juicy 7 caliper from another bike with no drag, put it on and it drags. Should I try another brake adapter? I was thinking of trying a floating rotor also, that used to fix the problem on my motorcycle track bikes. Any thoughts?
    It takes awhile of run in time and use to really get to know your brakes and what you need to set them up.

    I run that same set up ---( 08 SL but its the same)----

    I run the stock organic pads , -----and I make sure I keep my rotor bent straight , which is after every ride because of all the rocks out here .

    I will spread the pads apart gently with a large screwdriver ---and leave alittle extra room on each side of the pad to keep the drag away.

    Generally as the pads wear I gain more and more clearance on the rotor ,--sometimes I have to pop the caliper up and squeez the lever and reinstall to get the pads tighter again -------but I still leave at least .030 thou or so on each side , ------

    It just takes alittle setting up and they work very good, all brakes on these bikea are like this -----you just have to learn them .

  3. #3
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    I have no drag on mine...

    John
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  4. #4
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    Make sure you wind the pistons fully back using an allen key on the levers.

    After that, it is just a case of loosening off the calliper a little and moving it a fraction until it stops dragging. I followed this approach and managed to get it drag free, but it felt more like luck than judgement when I succeeded!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    It takes awhile of run in time and use to really get to know your brakes and what you need to set them up.

    I run that same set up ---( 08 SL but its the same)----

    I run the stock organic pads , -----and I make sure I keep my rotor bent straight , which is after every ride because of all the rocks out here .

    I will spread the pads apart gently with a large screwdriver ---and leave alittle extra room on each side of the pad to keep the drag away.

    Generally as the pads wear I gain more and more clearance on the rotor ,--sometimes I have to pop the caliper up and squeez the lever and reinstall to get the pads tighter again -------but I still leave at least .030 thou or so on each side , ------

    It just takes alittle setting up and they work very good, all brakes on these bikea are like this -----you just have to learn them .
    I don't understand what you are saying about prying the pads aprt to gain clearance because once you squeeze the lever it goes back to the way it was. As pads wear it should not really affect the clearance because that is the whole idea of hydraulics no? I also do not understand how you can manually set them up to have .030 on each side? again, as soon as you squeeze the lever that goes away. no? Thanks for the reply

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSG
    Make sure you wind the pistons fully back using an allen key on the levers.

    After that, it is just a case of loosening off the calliper a little and moving it a fraction until it stops dragging. I followed this approach and managed to get it drag free, but it felt more like luck than judgement when I succeeded!
    I did that with the adjusters on the lever and have been fiddle dicking around with loosening up the caliper with the same end result

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    I don't understand what you are saying about prying the pads aprt to gain clearance because once you squeeze the lever it goes back to the way it was. As pads wear it should not really affect the clearance because that is the whole idea of hydraulics no? I also do not understand how you can manually set them up to have .030 on each side? again, as soon as you squeeze the lever that goes away. no? Thanks for the reply
    There is a certin range of operation set into all hydraulic brake systems to where the pads apply on the rotors with force and then when you release the brakes,---- the system sucks the pads back off away from the rotor .

    This can be alittle tricky to set up when the system is new and the pads are not burnished into the rotor and are not compleatly flat , ---and you have the lever to tight.

    Once you get to working with the correct installed clearance on the burnished in pads ---------and you have the system compleatly bled and full of fluid , ---and you have your brake lever set at about 1/3 or so travel to apply the pads , -------when you release the pads the 1/3 or more travel on the piston will suck the pads away from the rotor and you will have clearance.

    The little systems on these bicycles we have are not really acurite , ----so you will have one side that will pull alittle differently than the other ,-------but you will get used to it and can manuel set the clearance up acordingly -----------its just the way these little systems are .

    Its not a big deal and you will see whats going on after a some time working with it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    There is a certin range of operation set into all hydraulic brake systems to where the pads apply on the rotors with force and then when you release the brakes,---- the system sucks the pads back off away from the rotor .

    This can be alittle tricky to set up when the system is new and the pads are not burnished into the rotor and are not compleatly flat , ---and you have the lever to tight.

    Once you get to working with the correct installed clearance on the burnished in pads ---------and you have the system compleatly bled and full of fluid , ---and you have your brake lever set at about 1/3 or so travel to apply the pads , -------when you release the pads the 1/3 or more travel on the piston will suck the pads away from the rotor and you will have clearance.

    The little systems on these bicycles we have are not really acurite , ----so you will have one side that will pull alittle differently than the other ,-------but you will get used to it and can manuel set the clearance up acordingly -----------its just the way these little systems are .

    Its not a big deal and you will see whats going on after a some time working with it.
    I hear ya man. It's just that I have been working on, bleeding, setting up juice brakes on my motorcycles for 20 years and all the effort I ever did to do what you suggested was like pissing up a rope It always went back to the way it was as soon as the lever was squeezed a few time. I agree that these little systems are not very accurate.
    I swapped on a caliper and pad that was bedded in and worked flawless on my other bike, put it on this bike and there is drag. The rotor thickness is exactly the same and is perfectly straight. This leeds me to believe it is in the caliper adapter/ mounting or even the wheel hub itself or perhaps the wheel position in the fork. Again, thanks for all the info. really appreciated

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    I did that with the adjusters on the lever and have been fiddle dicking around with loosening up the caliper with the same end result
    You will get it to release correctly when you set up the clearance and the 1/3 or so of brake lever return to suck the pads back.

    And like I say you really need to burnish the pads into the rotors ------it takes several hard long rides .

    It just takes time to see how it works , ----its no big deal, ---you will get it

  10. #10
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    I have had an issue with a particular rear wheel, the first I ever rebuilt (let me just say here that I hate Shimano hubs). Apparently when I put it back together I had something in the wrong spot or it was misaligned. It was so far out of alignment that the pads would not center over the disc - one of them always rubbed. I messed with that thing for a month then gave up... for some reason the LBS wanted nothing to do with it

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    I hear ya man. It's just that I have been working on, bleeding, setting up juice brakes on my motorcycles for 20 years and all the effort I ever did to do what you suggested was like pissing up a rope It always went back to the way it was as soon as the lever was squeezed a few time. I agree that these little systems are not very accurate.
    I swapped on a caliper and pad that was bedded in and worked flawless on my other bike, put it on this bike and there is drag. The rotor thickness is exactly the same and is perfectly straight. This leeds me to believe it is in the caliper adapter/ mounting or even the wheel hub itself or perhaps the wheel position in the fork. Again, thanks for all the info. really appreciated
    I own a race shop and build many of the indoor and outdoor MX bikes that are ran at the national levels , --------so trust me when I say that the nissin hydraulic brakes on the racing MX bikes have nothing to do with the little light weight systems on the pedal bikes

    You can not take a caliper off a system and add it to your system and end up with a valid test or data -----wont happen ---( maybe if you used the whole wheel, rotor ,master and caliper from the bike that did not drag ------then you would get somewhere and have no drag, ----but just swaping the caliper will give you troubble,--- and the pads are not set into the new rotor at all --------( the old rotor is not flat --------they get concaved and groved right away )

    untill you get equal movement on aplication as you do release from the master cylinder piston you will have drag .
    And when you really get the pads seated into the rotor this will be easier to achive ,------

    Your brake "Stay" mount for the caliper in really not an issue ----you should have enough movement in the slotted adjustment's to move the caliper way to far either direction, -------if you do not have enough adjustment , --you can washer or machine the "Stay" to be able to center the caliper -----------I have had to move some caliper Stays to get everything centered -----generally its in the rear because of the way the hub can be pulled off center ---(Jisch found out that you can surly pull one out of range easily )
    But very seldom a ft, unless I am using the wrong set up for a guy that just has to have it work .

  12. #12
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    With every set of disc brakes I've ever had, one piston always seems to always move a little more than the other. You just have to position the caliper over the disc to allow for this - frustrating to get set up sometimes but usually once it's in the right place it's ok for a few months.

    One method I use is to first push the pistons all the way back in carefully by using a large flat head screwdriver, then loosen your mounting bolts on the caliper, then put a business card on each side between the pad / disc, squeeze the lever a few times and then hold it on hard and do up the caliper mounting bolts. This will centre the caliper over the disc. If one side is still rubbing, repeat the process but put a little more paper or something on that side to correct the caliper position. Hope that makes some kind of sense!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    I own a race shop and build many of the indoor and outdoor MX bikes that are ran at the national levels , --------so trust me when I say that the nissin hydraulic brakes on the racing MX bikes have nothing to do with the little light weight systems on the pedal bikes

    You can not take a caliper off a system and add it to your system and end up with a valid test or data -----wont happen ---( maybe if you used the whole wheel, rotor ,master and caliper from the bike that did not drag ------then you would get somewhere and have no drag, ----but just swaping the caliper will give you troubble,--- and the pads are not set into the new rotor at all --------( the old rotor is not flat --------they get concaved and groved right away )

    untill you get equal movement on aplication as you do release from the master cylinder piston you will have drag .
    And when you really get the pads seated into the rotor this will be easier to achive ,------

    Your brake "Stay" mount for the caliper in really not an issue ----you should have enough movement in the slotted adjustment's to move the caliper way to far either direction, -------if you do not have enough adjustment , --you can washer or machine the "Stay" to be able to center the caliper -----------I have had to move some caliper Stays to get everything centered -----generally its in the rear because of the way the hub can be pulled off center ---(Jisch found out that you can surly pull one out of range easily )
    But very seldom a ft, unless I am using the wrong set up for a guy that just has to have it work .
    I respectfully disagree with some of your points but I thank you for the info!Taking a good caliper off and putting in the same type of system may give you a small problem but not a very large one on these small little systems. On my mountain bikes, the whole pad swap to a different rotor has never been a big issue. I do it all the time. I do agree with the stay not being a problem because of the elongated slots for the caliper mounting. I have got the system to work pretty good just by doing careful set up.
    BTW, what MX team/shop do you wrench for? I'm a big MX fan and have probably seen your bikes or team. Thanks again!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by doin
    With every set of disc brakes I've ever had, one piston always seems to always move a little more than the other. You just have to position the caliper over the disc to allow for this - frustrating to get set up sometimes but usually once it's in the right place it's ok for a few months.

    One method I use is to first push the pistons all the way back in carefully by using a large flat head screwdriver, then loosen your mounting bolts on the caliper, then put a business card on each side between the pad / disc, squeeze the lever a few times and then hold it on hard and do up the caliper mounting bolts. This will centre the caliper over the disc. If one side is still rubbing, repeat the process but put a little more paper or something on that side to correct the caliper position. Hope that makes some kind of sense!
    Thanks for the tip

  15. #15
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    One thing I notice, no drag but an absolutely horrible squealing from my pads. So much so it's very off putting. Any ideas?

    Kelstr I have sent you a PM, would you have a look at it?

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