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  1. #1
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    05 SJ FSR Cables Crossed

    I saw some mention of this in my search, but am still not clear. My LBS installed the shifter cables so they cross on the downtube right over the water bottle cage bosses. This seems stupid, and I'm thinking they routed the cables wrong.

    Should the shift cables be straight down the down tube, or are they supposed to cross?

    TIA!

    Edit: Found this on Specialized's web site:

    Crossed shifter cables
    Question
    Why are the cables on the downtube of my bike crossed? Shouldn't they be routed parallel?
    Answer
    Cables are usually crossed in front and behind the head tube to provide the straightest line to ensure the cleanest, smoothest shifting possible. This type of routing also helps minimize damage to the paint in the headtube due to constant pressure and abrasion by the cable housing. The second cross under the down tube to puts the cables back in alignment with their respective derailleurs.

    Thanks,
    Specialized
    So are they saying you should cross the cables on the down tube?? How could you install a bottle cage with this routing, and why does the cable rub against the cage bolt? Hmmm.
    Last edited by gcaz; 06-27-2005 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    yes, supposed to cross.

    get a camelback and forget it.

    your welcome
    wayne
    89 Univega HT -???-
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    05 Specd enduro FSR Sworks

  3. #3
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    They're crossed for a reason: keep your cables from getting snagged while riding. There's really no reason for a water bottle under the bike regardless of whether they put screws there or not. I agree with the above post, better to get a camelbak.
    Last edited by Fassn8; 06-27-2005 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Typo

  4. #4
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    I have several camelbaks and no intention of putting a bottle cage there. The fact remains, however, that the cables rub against the bolts.

    How will crossed cables get snagged less?

    Specialized, from my quote above, says it's to keep the cables coming from the shifters from rubbing against the head tube; my old bike has little clear stickers to protect the paint.

    So, forget the bottle cage -- my real question is to the merits of crossing the cables.

  5. #5
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    I'd like to see this...

    Can you post a photo?

  6. #6
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    Supposed to be crossed

    I only use the top waterbottle mount on my Stumpjumper. On my Epic the lower waterbottle cages broke quite often from metal fatigue and the bottles popped out quite often on bumpy stuff anyway. I like to carry one waterbottle of Cytomax, in addition to my Camelback.

  7. #7
    reflexes of a puma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider
    Can you post a photo?
    [At least 5 characters.]
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  8. #8
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    That just looks wrong

    I also have an 05 FSR 120 and my downtube cable routing is parallel. I need to go home and look at my shift cable bosses but it seems pretty weird. All the bikes I've ever owned had parallel routing.

    I think that if Specialized's engineers designed for the cables to cross, I suspect they would have repositioned the cage bolts bolts so they didn't interfere with the cables.

    I guess the bigger question is whether your bike shifts well or not? If it shifts cleanly you might consider leaving it alone.

    Unless you're like me and lose sleep over it...

  9. #9
    reflexes of a puma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider
    Unless you're like me and lose sleep over it...
    Exactly -- it's going to bug me if it's not right. I see at least a few options:

    • Route the cables parallel
    • Put a liner over the cable
    • Get a lower-profile cage bolt


    Thanks for any insight! Seems like FSR's are being assembled both ways. I'll try sending specialized another email to follow up on their FAQ.
    Last edited by gcaz; 06-28-2005 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Spelling.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcaz
    [At least 5 characters.]
    Why are you running the rear der. cable to the right side of the headtube?

    It would be less of a bend if you went to the left side with the right shifter and right side with the left shifter. And not cross under the downtube.
    Last edited by S-Works; 06-28-2005 at 05:20 PM.
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  11. #11
    reflexes of a puma
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Why are you running the front der. cable to the right side of the headtube?

    It would be less of a bend if you went to the left side with the right shifter and right side with the left shifter. And not cross under the downtube.
    It's a new bike. This is how it was done either at the factory or LBS (whoever put it together). That's why I'm wondering if it's on purpose or a mistake. This is what I quoted in my first post from the FAQ at Specialized's website, but it doesn't seem to make sense as they talk about crossing in front of the head tube, but my cables are not crossed in front of the head tube.

    Crossed shifter cables
    Question
    Why are the cables on the downtube of my bike crossed? Shouldn't they be routed parallel?
    Answer
    Cables are usually crossed in front and behind the head tube to provide the straightest line to ensure the cleanest, smoothest shifting possible. This type of routing also helps minimize damage to the paint in the headtube due to constant pressure and abrasion by the cable housing. The second cross under the down tube to puts the cables back in alignment with their respective derailleurs.

    Thanks,
    Specialized

  12. #12
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    Apparently not that uncommon

    I did a quick search on google and found a few sites that suggest crossing the cables under the downtube to improve shifting performance.

    "Criss-Cross" Cables
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html

    Now that I think about it, there's a lot of friction when shifting to the big ring on my FD. I wonder if crossing the cables would help.

    Maybe these guys are onto something.

  13. #13
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    Isn't that the same thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Why are you running the front der. cable to the right side of the headtube?

    It would be less of a bend if you went to the left side with the right shifter and right side with the left shifter. And not cross under the downtube.
    isn't the left shifter the front deraileur?

    and if they didn't cross under the downtube, they'd be in the wrong position for the derailleur.

  14. #14
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    do your cables look like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by gcaz
    my cables are not crossed in front of the head tube.
    The black cables would be standard routing. The blue cables cross over routing.

    Just out of curiousity, your FD is on the left and RD on the right?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcaz
    It's a new bike. This is how it was done either at the factory or LBS (whoever put it together). That's why I'm wondering if it's on purpose or a mistake. This is what I quoted in my first post from the FAQ at Specialized's website, but it doesn't seem to make sense as they talk about crossing in front of the head tube, but my cables are not crossed in front of the head tube.

    My M2 hardtail had the right hand shifter to the left side of the headtube and then crossed under the downtube with the left hand shifter cable to the right side of the headtube.

    My 99 FSR XC was right shifter cable to right side of headtube, and left hand shifter to right side of headtube. The right shifter having a, relatively speaking, more severe bend in it, really rubbed the headtube raw without a little sticker for protection. So it makes more sense to me to cross over the other side of the headtube, and that it really does not make a difference to cross under the downtube of the newer SJ

    My thinking is that this crossin is for older bikes, like my old M2 hardtail not he 04/05 SJ. I've been looking at a lot of them becuase I'm getting an SJ frame replaced under warranty, and wanted to get a handle on the cable routing.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider
    isn't the left shifter the front deraileur?

    and if they didn't cross under the downtube, they'd be in the wrong position for the derailleur.

    Yes, you are correct. I'm looking at the top of his picture. Under the BB, the right side cable (as you look at the pic) is for the rear der. it's coming from the right side of the headtube ( as you sit on the bike), and vice-verse for the FD. So this person has his right shifter-(for RD) in a tight bend to come down the right side of the headtube. Same for the lefthand side, but opposite.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Yes, you are correct. I'm looking at the top of his picture. Under the BB, the right side cable (as you look at the pic) is for the rear der. it's coming from the right side of the headtube ( as you sit on the bike), and vice-verse for the FD. So this person has his right shifter-(for RD) in a tight bend to come down the right side of the headtube. Same for the lefthand side, but opposite.
    On my bike (from memory -- I'm at the office now) the right shifter cable (rear d.) goes to the right cable guide, then crosses over to the left of the bottom bracket, then is routed back to the right side to reach the rear d.

    The left (front d.) cable goes to the left boss, then crosses on the down tube to the right side of the BB and then straight up to the front der. So my bike doesn't look like your picture, except the right hydro line crosses in front of the head tube then heads down the bottom of the top tube to the rear disk brake.

  18. #18
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    Sounds like your LBS screwed up

    Quote Originally Posted by gcaz
    On my bike (from memory -- I'm at the office now) the right shifter cable (rear d.) goes to the right cable guide, then crosses over to the left of the bottom bracket, then is routed back to the right side to reach the rear d.

    The left (front d.) cable goes to the left boss, then crosses on the down tube to the right side of the BB and then straight up to the front der. So my bike doesn't look like your picture, except the right hydro line crosses in front of the head tube then heads down the bottom of the top tube to the rear disk brake.
    If I'm understanding this right, it sounds like you have the worst of both worlds. Maybe your LBS started to set up your cables as a cross over routing but only did half the job.

    Like S-Works was saying, you could route the cables with less bend and not cross your cables.

    Man. I really need to go home and look at my bike now...

  19. #19
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    Just checked mine.

    Left (Front) DR crosses across the head tube and goes down the Right side of the frame - and vice versa. This means that the cables run parallel down the frame and do not cross (until below the BB). No prob with bolts, obviously.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by druidh
    Just checked mine.

    Left (Front) DR crosses across the head tube and goes down the Right side of the frame - and vice versa. This means that the cables run parallel down the frame and do not cross (until below the BB). No prob with bolts, obviously.
    That's the way I'm going to run mine, if my frame ever gets here from S.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider
    If I'm understanding this right, it sounds like you have the worst of both worlds. Maybe your LBS started to set up your cables as a cross over routing but only did half the job.

    Like S-Works was saying, you could route the cables with less bend and not cross your cables.

    Man. I really need to go home and look at my bike now...
    I think you guys are right -- it's not routed correctly. I'm going in for the first tune-up sometime in the next 7 days or so, and I'll have them swap the cables. This makes sense as (1) it reduces the sharp bend needed for the cable to go from the shifter to the cable guide on the same side of the frame, and (2) it will make the cables head parallel on the down tube, thus avoiding the cage bosses. A cross on the DT is not needed as the cables "cross" (or would if they overlapped) after the BB.

    I'll see what the LBS has to say about all this. (I actually need to have them re-do the cables anyway as I flipped the stem and may (instead or also) remove some/all of the steerer tube spacers.

    Let me know what your bike does; I'll be interested to hear from any other FSR owners and how their bikes are set up.
    Last edited by gcaz; 06-28-2005 at 05:25 PM. Reason: cna't splel

  22. #22
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    mine don't cross. i assembled it myself, it shifts beautifully.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurowanker
    mine don't cross. i assembled it myself, it shifts beautifully.
    My enduro and SJ both assembled by LBS, both cross and shift fine.

    wayne
    89 Univega HT -???-
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  24. #24
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    Well I'll be damned...

    Quote Originally Posted by gcaz
    Let me know what your bike does; I'll be interested to hear from any other FSR owners and how their bikes are set up.
    Mine do cross over in front of the head tube.

    I guess you gotta hand it to those Specialized guys. They must have put some thought into their bikes when they were designing them.

    Someone at your LBS sure gapped though. I wonder what the hell they were thinking?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayneosdias
    My enduro and SJ both assembled by LBS, both cross and shift fine.

    wayne

    hmm..

    well here's how mine is routed

    right shifter to left frame cable mount and vice versa, so basicaly they cross in front of the head tube. then they run parralel down the down tube and the left side cable is routed back to the rear shifter and the right side one goes up to the front derailler.

    the only reason I can think that crossing the cables would improve shifting is if it allows you to cross the cables in front of the head tube resulting in a larger, smoother housing loop at this point. as far as I can tel the specialized design negated the need for a downtube crossing due to the routing under the bottom bracket.

    does any of that make sense?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by endurowanker
    hmm..

    well here's how mine is routed

    right shifter to left frame cable mount and vice versa, so basicaly they cross in front of the head tube. then they run parralel down the down tube and the left side cable is routed back to the rear shifter and the right side one goes up to the front derailler.

    the only reason I can think that crossing the cables would improve shifting is if it allows you to cross the cables in front of the head tube resulting in a larger, smoother housing loop at this point. as far as I can tel the specialized design negated the need for a downtube crossing due to the routing under the bottom bracket.

    does any of that make sense?
    I think you're absolutely right -- my bike is undoing Specialized attempt to eliminate having to cross the cables. Grr.

  27. #27
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    In the UK

    The cables cross over in front of the head tube but run parallel on the down tube - works brilliantly. However, in the UK, by law, the rear brake lever is on the left and the front is on the right (for hand signals on a road when turning right and left hand applies back brake etc.). Anyway, looks great and works great and parallel seems to make more sense.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fassn8
    They're crossed for a reason:
    Yes, the reason is the LBS F**ked up! Bring it back and tell them to fix it.

    Jim D.
    04 Stumpjumper Expert Disc
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  29. #29
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    Hmmm...

    <img src="http://www.booboodog.net/images/specrecallnotice.jpg">
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Hmmm...

    <img src="http://www.booboodog.net/images/specrecallnotice.jpg">
    That's pretty funny.

  31. #31
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    I cross my cables on all bikes I have or work on with downtube cable routing. i think it works better and looks cleaner.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  32. #32
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    Specialized specs the bikes with the cables crossed on purpose. This is so you can run the left cable around the front of the tube to the right side, and vice versa. This keeps the cables from rubbing a hole in the paint, and through the tube. Yes, it will rub through the tube. They cross over under the downtube so that they'll be on their proper sides when they get to the bottom bracket and routed to their respective derailleurs. If they rub on the bolts, who cares? Move the bolts, they'll rub on the down tube. The bike is assembled correctly.
    Last edited by mward; 07-04-2005 at 03:41 PM. Reason: damn, that was mean

  33. #33
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    Actually, you're wrong. Sort of...

    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    Specialized specs the bikes with the cables crossed on purpose.
    Specialized may have crossed their cables along the downtube in the past but on the newer models (05 FSR) it's no longer necessary.

    On a frame with conventional downtube routing, the left cable (looking from above) went to the FD, right cable to the RD.

    On the current model FSR, it's reversed. This allows the cables to cross in front of the head tube and again under the BB. Better cable routing, no rubbing and no need to cross the cables under the downtube.

    If you have a current model FSR (sorry, can't speak to other years or models) and the shift cables cross, it was assembled incorrectly.

  34. #34
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    Interesting info there. If you're right then I imagine this was because of the problem with the front derailleur cable rubbing on the pivot arms. Take what I said as applying to 04 and previous. I've got them crossed on my 93, although it originally came with straight routing, cross works better from a rubbing standpoint. I am guessing that the person at the lbs maybe didn't know about the change? People are human, you know, and make mistakes.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    Interesting info there. If you're right then I imagine this was because of the problem with the front derailleur cable rubbing on the pivot arms. Take what I said as applying to 04 and previous. I've got them crossed on my 93, although it originally came with straight routing, cross works better from a rubbing standpoint. I am guessing that the person at the lbs maybe didn't know about the change? People are human, you know, and make mistakes.
    That's what it looks like to me. Pre '05 needed the downtoube cross to allow you to cross in front of the head tube. On my '05, crossing on the downtube means you aren't crossing the left shifter to the right side and vice versa. On my bike, the left stays left and right stays right, then they cross on the down tube, then cross again after the bottom bracket. This seems the worst of all worlds.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    Interesting info there. If you're right then I imagine this was because of the problem with the front derailleur cable rubbing on the pivot arms. Take what I said as applying to 04 and previous. I've got them crossed on my 93, although it originally came with straight routing, cross works better from a rubbing standpoint. I am guessing that the person at the lbs maybe didn't know about the change? People are human, you know, and make mistakes.

    Are you saying the 04 stumpy's have the R. Der on the drive side of the BB? Not the non-drive side as pictured above. Where the 05's the R. Der is on the non-drive side.
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  37. #37
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    Answered my own question

    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Are you saying the 04 stumpy's have the R. Der on the drive side of the BB? Not the non-drive side as pictured above. Where the 05's the R. Der is on the non-drive side.

    Found a pic of the 04 Anniversary Stumpy when it was introduced.

    Cables cross in front of the headtube, and run parallel down the downtube, just like the 05's
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  38. #38
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    Interesting thread, walk through Specialized shops and you'll see both parallel and crossed cables in the same store.

    This is a bit of a sore topic for me; my 04 FSR SJ Pro had it's cables crossed on the showroom floor. Turning the handlebars through their range of motion, it just seemed obvious that the derailleur cables had to cross ahead of the steering tube to avoid sharp bends in the derailleur cables so I asked them to correct this before I left with the bike. They did the switch but they did a quick sloppy job. They didn't cap the ends of the derailleur cables (I had to go back and request this, they did just one cable and I had to point out the other was not capped), they left off the little rubber donuts off of one of the cables (the service writer said "oh, they only put those on one side" - lie!), and they messed up the little teflon tube that runs under the bottom bracket with the rubber seal - eventually this started binding up and interfering with front derailleur shifting.

    Regarding that picture of the 04 Anniversary Stumpy - I notice that the front brake line goes inside of the fork leg...mine goes around the outside...hmmmm

    Anyway, here's a picture of my 2004 FSR SJ Pro:
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35
    Interesting thread, walk through Specialized shops and you'll see both parallel and crossed cables in the same store.

    This is a bit of a sore topic for me; my 04 FSR SJ Pro had it's cables crossed on the showroom floor. Turning the handlebars through their range of motion, it just seemed obvious that the derailleur cables had to cross ahead of the steering tube to avoid sharp bends in the derailleur cables so I asked them to correct this before I left with the bike. They did the switch but they did a quick sloppy job. They didn't cap the ends of the derailleur cables (I had to go back and request this, they did just one cable and I had to point out the other was not capped), they left off the little rubber donuts off of one of the cables (the service writer said "oh, they only put those on one side" - lie!), and they messed up the little teflon tube that runs under the bottom bracket with the rubber seal - eventually this started binding up and interfering with front derailleur shifting.

    Regarding that picture of the 04 Anniversary Stumpy - I notice that the front brake line goes inside of the fork leg...mine goes around the outside...hmmmm

    Anyway, here's a picture of my 2004 FSR SJ Pro:


    The front brake cable you can do either way. I've always done to the inside, like the pic. But I see some with it to the outside. I don't think that makes a difference.
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  40. #40
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    Well I'll be a fig newton (name that movie).

    I went in and looked at my wife's 04 stumpjumper fsr and they don't cross. My 04 sworks, they crossed. I thought this stuff was consistent, I guess not at all.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    The front brake cable you can do either way. I've always done to the inside, like the pic. But I see some with it to the outside. I don't think that makes a difference.
    Thanks. It's just that I've been thinking about a front fender in the winter. With the Fox forks (with the crossover brace in the front), the brake line seems to cross through where the fender would be (when you consider the range of travel of the forks and steering). It seems like a little bit shorter route for the front brake line inside the fork tube and maybe I could use this extra length to go around a front fender...

  42. #42
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    American Flyers...

    Quote Originally Posted by mward
    I thought this stuff was consistent, I guess not at all.
    My take was that bikes came partially assembled from the factory and then tuned by the LBS. Up to now I assumed that pre-assembly included cable installation. Guess not.

    Do you have the same prob as the Gcaz? No cross in front of the head tube, cross on the downtube?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35
    Thanks. It's just that I've been thinking about a front fender in the winter. With the Fox forks (with the crossover brace in the front), the brake line seems to cross through where the fender would be (when you consider the range of travel of the forks and steering). It seems like a little bit shorter route for the front brake line inside the fork tube and maybe I could use this extra length to go around a front fender...
    This is with a Left Hand front brake lever? On my UK-spec 120 the front brake hose crosses in front of the steerer and so doesn't get in the way of a fender.

  44. #44
    More pie please
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    Quote Originally Posted by druidh
    This is with a Left Hand front brake lever? On my UK-spec 120 the front brake hose crosses in front of the steerer and so doesn't get in the way of a fender.
    Yes, left hand front brake lever. Look at the photo of the 04 Anniversary SJ below and follow the brake line up the forks, then it's zip tied to the crossover brace, and then it travels right through where a front fender would go.

    Maybe a second zip tie on the (rider's) right hand side of the crossover brace would keep the brake line away from a fender... Right now I'm an inch or two short on brake line to do this routing. Moving the line inside of the fork leg would "reallocate" some brake line to go around a fender Also I could narrow the handlebars, or at least side the lever inward.

    <img class="attach" src="attachment.php?attachmentid=88369&amp;stc=1" border="0" alt="" />&nbsp;

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    Dump

    Dump the water bottle cage bolts. Replace them with a set of cleat screws for whatever pedal/cleat combo you use. You will always have two extra cleat screws, they bolt in almost flush to the frame. I do this on all my bikes. Carry a Camelback.
    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you." W. W.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-Works
    Found a pic of the 04 Anniversary Stumpy when it was introduced.

    Cables cross in front of the headtube, and run parallel down the downtube, just like the 05's
    Thanks -- I didn't have an '04 to look at. I just thought it might be given the comments that others have made regarding needing to cross the cables on the DT in order to reverse the cross in front of the HT.

    Quote Originally Posted by hurtman
    Dump the water bottle cage bolts. Replace them with a set of cleat screws for whatever pedal/cleat combo you use. You will always have two extra cleat screws, they bolt in almost flush to the frame. I do this on all my bikes. Carry a Camelback.
    Thanks for the suggestion to use cleat screws. I'll do that in the mean time (and for a cleaner look in any event). As I stated above, I do use a camelbak. I do use the other bottle cage, though, for energy drinks and short blasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtman
    Dump the water bottle cage bolts. Replace them with a set of cleat screws for whatever pedal/cleat combo you use. You will always have two extra cleat screws, they bolt in almost flush to the frame. I do this on all my bikes. Carry a Camelback.

    Hello,

    Jake Wake here, engineer at Specialized.

    On current SJ FSR bikes, the cables should NOT cross under that down tube.

    On hardtails, Demos and Enduros they do cross, but not on the SJ FSR.

    The most important thing is that your right hand shifter cable goes around the far side or the left side of the head tube, and the left shifter goes around the right side of the head tube. This prevents the cable from rubbing on the head tube.

    Below that on the down tube, some frame designs cross and some don't. It depends where the cables have to go.

    JW

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeWake
    Hello,

    Jake Wake here, engineer at Specialized.

    On current SJ FSR bikes, the cables should NOT cross under that down tube.

    On hardtails, Demos and Enduros they do cross, but not on the SJ FSR.

    The most important thing is that your right hand shifter cable goes around the far side or the left side of the head tube, and the left shifter goes around the right side of the head tube. This prevents the cable from rubbing on the head tube.

    Below that on the down tube, some frame designs cross and some don't. It depends where the cables have to go.

    JW

    Awesome! Crystal clear. Thanks for taking the time to drop by and reply.

    I think you would do Specialized a *world* of good in terms of PR & goodwill if you could drop by & clarify some questions on a semi-regular basis. (Ignore any trolls -- the rest of us are happy when we get info from the source.)

    Again, thanks and keep up the good work!

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