• 01-18-2013
    sfb12
    Restrictions on South FL trails
    Specifically for Markham Park and Quiet Waters. Are there age restrictions and or any other big restrictions other than having fun but doing it safely without any injuries?
  • 01-19-2013
    JonMX5
    No but you have to go to the park office and sign waivers. Markham also makes you watch a video and will provide you with a little laminated pass you have to carry with you. They've been checking them lately.
  • 01-20-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JonMX5 View Post
    No but you have to go to the park office and sign waivers. Markham also makes you watch a video and will provide you with a little laminated pass you have to carry with you. They've been checking them lately.

    Really? I've never had to carry a pass or watch video's in the trials? SInce when is this? :skep:
  • 01-20-2013
    OscarW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LazyRid3r View Post
    Really? I've never had to carry a pass or watch video's in the trials? SInce when is this? :skep:

    That has been for about 5 years or so. Technically you are trespassing if you don't have a pass and you can get a citation for it too..
    There is a sign at the park entrance informing the public of the need for a pass actually.
    Lately the park has been cracking down since we have remodeled a few trails and they became faster and a bit smoother too. We just opened up a new section in Alligator Alley and lengthened the Black Snake portion by almost a 1/4 mile.
  • 01-20-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    That has been for about 5 years or so. Technically you are trespassing if you don't have a pass and you can get a citation for it too..
    There is a sign at the park entrance informing the public of the need for a pass actually.
    Lately the park has been cracking down since we have remodeled a few trails and they became faster and a bit smoother too. We just opened up a new section in Alligator Alley and lengthened the Black Snake portion by almost a 1/4 mile.

    Is this in Markham? Only ?
  • 01-20-2013
    chester2123
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LazyRid3r View Post
    Is this in Markham? Only ?

    it seems to be Markham only (correct me if im wrong) and they only have ID checkers on the weekend. also gloves and a helmet are required at both parks.
  • 01-20-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chester2123 View Post
    it seems to be Markham only (correct me if im wrong) and they only have ID checkers on the weekend. also gloves and a helmet are required at both parks.

    I was about to say. I have not been to Markham in about 6-7 months. Even then it was park and go. Just like in Amelia and Oleta... This is news to me wow.. Although, for liability purposes it's smart and for safety purposes it's beneficial as well
  • 01-21-2013
    OscarW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LazyRid3r View Post
    Is this in Markham? Only ?

    No, all parks in Broward require this and in QW they just had a settlement because someone got hurt and it was cheaper to pay a settlement than go to court...They( park employee's) will be more diligent in doing checks from here on in.

    Someone mentioned gloves being mandatory, that is not the case, however you'd be smart o wear them as the lime rock and coral rock is sharp and will cut you quickly as most of us have found out on our legs. I have left some DNA on the trails and I am sure many others have too. :o
    Only the stupid think they don't need to protect themselves...:rolleyes:

    PS LazyRid3r ,You'll like the changes in Markham. Over the past 6 months a lot of work has been done to the trails there...:D
  • 01-21-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    No, all parks in Broward require this and in QW they just had a settlement because someone got hurt and it was cheaper to pay a settlement than go to court...They( park employee's) will be more diligent in doing checks from here on in.

    Someone mentioned gloves being mandatory, that is not the case, however you'd be smart o wear them as the lime rock and coral rock is sharp and will cut you quickly as most of us have found out on our legs. I have left some DNA on the trails and I am sure many others have too. :o
    Only the stupid think they don't need to protect themselves...:rolleyes:

    PS LazyRid3r ,You'll like the changes in Markham. Over the past 6 months a lot of work has been done to the trails there...:D

    I plan on going to Markham in the upcoming weeks. I remember Markham just being way challenging for novice riders. I remember looking at some of drops and climbs and thought to myself I can do this with difficulty but for someone who is starting up its just insane. I didn't mind it but I know of a lot of people who veered away from the park because of the technical nature and skill needed. I heard it has a better flow on the trails. I can't wait.
  • 01-21-2013
    OscarW
    Markham is still challenging but the flow has improved. There are still tricky spots and one of them looks easier than it is as it is a very fast downhill. That trail is Outback Extension btw.
    I always tell people 'when in doubt to walk it out'. Too many peeps don't check their ego at the gate and get in trouble.
    Enjoy the trails when you ride them!!:D
  • 01-22-2013
    jayjudy13
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LazyRid3r View Post
    I was about to say. I have not been to Markham in about 6-7 months. Even then it was park and go. J

    No, it wasn't. I haven't been to Markham in well over a year and it was already a rule then. Watch a 15 min vid, get your pass. You were so excited to ride you missed the signs.;)
  • 01-22-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jayjudy13 View Post
    No, it wasn't. I haven't been to Markham in well over a year and it was already a rule then. Watch a 15 min vid, get your pass. You were so excited to ride you missed the signs.;)

    Maybe... However, remember in the battle of liability the burden is on the major establishment. Where were the park rangers or assigned employee to patrol and enforce the rules and regulations. Nevertheless, I support the video and pass. Forget the law suit, You never want to see anyone get hurt. It's horrible everytime your riding and you see someone helping out a rider who is hurt or injured.
  • 01-23-2013
    OscarW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LazyRid3r View Post
    Maybe... However, remember in the battle of liability the burden is on the major establishment. Where were the park rangers or assigned employee to patrol and enforce the rules and regulations. Nevertheless, I support the video and pass. Forget the law suit, You never want to see anyone get hurt. It's horrible everytime your riding and you see someone helping out a rider who is hurt or injured.

    You can't legislate stupid. When I started volunteering in Markham I was made aware of how and why trails are build a certain way in order to prevent people from getting injured too badly. However MTB'ing is an inherently potentially dangerous sport and it is impossible to prevent dumb people from doing dumb things. We always tell people to ride within your limits and there are signs stating the same.

    I.E , we close a trail to work on and the sign is ignored by the stupid, a tree comes down since we needed to remove it, the stupid peep get's hurt, now who is at fault???
    A 'trail closed' sign is one of the most ignored signs in any park since some think that it doesn't apply to them as they are "special". I agree these peeps are special, specially stupid.
    The other ignored sign is Helmets Mandatory, again by that group of 'special' peeps...:madman:

    The patrollers can't be everywhere and that is why you are trespassing when you don't have the pass and the burden of liability is on you the public and not the park. Either you signed the release of liability or you're trespassing. It has been tried in court and in the case of Markham the park has won every time and IIRC Markham hasn't ben sued since implementing this system...
  • 01-23-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    You can't legislate stupid. When I started volunteering in Markham I was made aware of how and why trails are build a certain way in order to prevent people from getting injured too badly. However MTB'ing is an inherently potentially dangerous sport and it is impossible to prevent dumb people from doing dumb things. We always tell people to ride within your limits and there are signs stating the same.

    I.E , we close a trail to work on and the sign is ignored by the stupid, a tree comes down since we needed to remove it, the stupid peep get's hurt, now who is at fault???
    A 'trail closed' sign is one of the most ignored signs in any park since some think that it doesn't apply to them as they are "special". I agree these peeps are special, specially stupid.
    The other ignored sign is Helmets Mandatory, again by that group of 'special' peeps...:madman:

    The patrollers can't be everywhere and that is why you are trespassing when you don't have the pass and the burden of liability is on you the public and not the park. Either you signed the release of liability or you're trespassing. It has been tried in court and in the case of Markham the park has won every time and IIRC Markham hasn't ben sued since implementing this system...

    I agree I see it all the time. People taking matters into there own hands. They skip yellow do not cross signs or they donít sign waivers when there suppose to or they donít wear helmets. Those people should be kicked out or suspended by the park for a period of time. However, those that follow the rules and still get hurt are the ones I am referring too. Actually when the rider has done all he is required to do the burden is not on the rider its on the park and itís staff to properly police and enforce there rules and guidelines. I know this because I litigate for a living and the park needs to prove that they were not negligent in any way or that the rules and procedures are being enforced. I checked the Broward County clerk of courts because if a suit were filed it would need to be in the county of the established and I donít see anything brought up in court. This means the county being the defendant and the rider being the prosecutor either (A) dropped the suit or (B) they settled out of court before the case went to trial and jury. The risk management of the city deals with cases like this all the time. It could be a slip and fall in county court or a fence that is rusted at the local park that cut you or even tripping over a pipe on the floor at the local police station. Like I said I see it all the time itís clock work thatís why risk management adjusters make good money for the county. However, the county has a cap on settlementís like this usually 10-25k depending on the injury or the impairment.

    This sucks because the money the county pays in suitís every year could go to help so many people and improve schools, parks, the poor and non profit organizations that depend or donations from the government.

    But it goes to that guy named stupid :madman::madmax:
  • 01-23-2013
    OscarW
    I see when there is a blatant failure of the trail crew to willingly ignore an issue on the trail and someone gets hurt, that person has a right to expect some form of compensation. That hasn't happened in Markham as quite a few trailbuilders ride there on a daily bases and check out all the trails and close a trail that is deemed unsafe. Rte 66 was closed for a few days recently and yet some peeps rode it anyway....:mad:

    Following the rules doesn't exempt you from getting hurt either, but wearing protective gear can mitigate this. When I started MTBing, I looked like Robocop with all my armor on, but I didn't get hurt as badly as when I started riding without all that gear.

    However getting hurt is part and parcel of the sport. Some expert riders have recently broken bones in Markham.
    It happens and those guys know the risk of pushing the limit. Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.
    Some common sense would be the best approach IMHO, but that is asking for a lot in a litigious society that plays the blame game so well...
  • 01-27-2013
    drjay9051
    Sign a waiver? Kind of silly. Even with signature you can still sue and recover.

    Watch a video/ Look I'm all for safety but IMO this is a bit much.

    Wonder if they are going to check Camelbacks in the future to make sure you are not drinking sugared drinks.

    A sign at the entrance should be sufficient warning of the potential dangers in mountain biking.

    Just my opinion.
  • 01-27-2013
    OscarW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drjay9051 View Post
    Sign a waiver? Kind of silly. Even with signature you can still sue and recover.

    Watch a video/ Look I'm all for safety but IMO this is a bit much.

    Wonder if they are going to check Camelbacks in the future to make sure you are not drinking sugared drinks.

    A sign at the entrance should be sufficient warning of the potential dangers in mountain biking.

    Just my opinion.

    Few people read the signs as is evident with the people just walking/ riding by the Helmets Mandatory sign as well as the NO PEDESTRIANS on the two big signs with the rules on them....
    If you don't sign the waiver and watch the video and get your FREE pass, you're trespassing, and suing the county for your stupidity will be more difficult too.. YMMV
  • 01-27-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Safety measures are needed for people that take measures into there own hands. For every two or three people that are keen on following the rules there is always a few who think the rules don't apply to them. I am ok with the signs and waivers and people overlooking the trails to make everything is in place.
  • 01-27-2013
    sfb12
    So is helmets all that is required for markham? what about quiet waters?
  • 01-27-2013
    LazyRid3r
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sfb12 View Post
    So is helmets all that is required for markham? what about quiet waters?

    Check out the beginning of the thread. Everything should be there.
  • 01-27-2013
    OscarW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sfb12 View Post
    So is helmets all that is required for markham? what about quiet waters?

    :rolleyes: really???
  • 01-27-2013
    sfb12
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    :rolleyes: really???

    Sorry don't want to spend more on gear than I have to due to my finnacial ways.
  • 01-27-2013
    OscarW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sfb12 View Post
    Sorry don't want to spend more on gear than I have to due to my finnacial ways.

    I can certainly understand that, but IMHO a helmet is the most important piece of gear a rider can, and should, wear and it doesn't need to be the most expensive one out there either, as long as it fits you.
    There are some programs in Miami Dade that give helmets away to those who are strapped for cash. IIRC Amelia is one place where from time to time helmets are given to riders for free. I don't know if Broward has a program in place like that, but it may be a good idea to check that out. Hope this helps...
  • 01-27-2013
    sfb12
    I know about the importance of a helmet which was my main concern just checking about anything else though. Ill probably end up going to walmart for a helmet or something.
  • 01-27-2013
    OscarW
    Walmart is not a bad choice as they sell Bell helmets for a decent price.