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Thread: Quiet Waters

  1. #1
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    Quiet Waters

    Anyone know how it holds up to the rain? Was planning on going today but it's been a steady drizzle most of the day, and harder than than at times. I was planning on going tomorrow instead, but am not sure how the trail will be or if I'll hurt anything. Things usually dry pretty well in the So FL sun, and the trail is pretty rocky/sandy, so I doubt the rain will have much of an adverse effect but I've never been there the day after lots of rain.

    Anyway, does anyone know how it responds to the rain?

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    The trail should be fine, i would just keep off anything wooden or rocky if they appear wet.

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    Went to QW today, and rode the advanced line of the bike wash trail for the first time, it was really fun. I have one huge issue though. There is a see-saw feature later on that trail, and there are no indications whatsoever that it is a see-saw. It was kind of covered over in brush and you could not see the under part of the structure while approaching it - it looked like it was just a big ramp. When I got to the top of it and it started tilting, it caught me way off guard. I lost my balance and had to put my feet down to keep from tumbling off, scraped up my calf on my pedals and got a seat up my butt when it slammed to the ground.

    Now, I'm one that believes MTB-ing is inherently dangerous and enjoy the challenge of staying safe and all that, but honestly there should be some signage there to indicate that it's a see-saw. People who have never ridden the trail before could get really hurt. If a feature like that does not clearly look like a see-saw, a small sign would go very far in keeping people safe. I could have walked up and surveyed it beforehand and maybe it's my fault for not doing so, but honestly nothing else at QW is even remotely to the level where you should walk the trail before riding it.

    If it were out in the open, or the view was not blocked by plants then sure, nothing is needed, and I certainly am not advocating placing signs wherever there is something dangerous. However, for a man-made obstacle that's category is not clearly distinguishable prior to being on it, I definitely feel that something should be put up.

    Not sure if this will get any responses here, but hopefully some will see it. How do you guys feel about this? Am I just mad that I got a saddle up my ass?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by breakingbryan

    Now, I'm one that believes MTB-ing is inherently dangerous and enjoy the challenge of staying safe and all that,

    I could have walked up and surveyed it beforehand and maybe it's my fault for not doing so,
    There you go, I think you answered your own question

    But, it does suck that you crashed. But like you said, mtbing = inherently dangerous, and crashes happen.
    GregRidesTrails.com--An informational and instructional mountain bike blog.

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    Yeah and on some other trails I would have done that but like I mentioned, nothing else like that at Quiet Waters exists, even in the other so-called "advanced" sections. It's just so out of place at this park.

    I guess thinking about it more, it's now less about me being frustrated about what happened and more about making sure someone who may not have the coordination I did, doesn't get hurt pretty badly.

  6. #6
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    yeah, trails here in south florida could use some more signs.... how about yield signs, and stop signs at all intersections. Maybe a pamphlet before each trail feature and somewhere to sign in and out of each obstacle, you know, just to be sure someone doesn't get a ****ing boo-boo. then we could have a group of mommies at the trailhead to give you a pat on the head, kiss your ouchie, and put on a pooh-bear band-aid.

    mountain biking is an unsafe activity; the world is an unsafe place; but it's pretty ****ing fun. deal with it and move along.

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    Pretty sure you either didn't read my whole post, didn't comprehend what I was saying, or just didn't care and wanted to sound like an ass.

    Anyone else with some class care to comment?

  8. #8
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    no, i read your whole post, and i don't care if you think you're just trying to do the right thing. You now pose a liability risk to the trail by stating that you think there is an unsafe feature and improper safety notification. The lawyers would eat that **** up. So, thank you for being another whiny floridian who can't just have some fun, bleed a little, and shut the **** up.

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    What a bad attitude you have. Did your mother not hug you enough as a child, because you still sound like a child. If anyone is being whiny it is you. After reading breakingbyrans original post, I did not see anything wrong with his advice about the trail. I was under the impression that all the trails in South Florida were still works in progress with room for improvement. Are you so sensitive about your work on this trail (assuming that you are one of the volunteers that helped to build it), that you can't stand to hear anyone criticize it, and on a safety issue. To give someone a hard time because THEY almost got hurt, and they wanted to be sure that no-one else would get injured on the same feature... Who is being the better person in this argument. Belittling someone because of a sign suggestion. Everyone that puts their leg over a mountain bike and rides the trails is aware that they could possible spill blood on that trail. Hell who on the blog hasn't? Grow up. And by the way I will not be replying to any response you send me. Learn to take criticism.

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    I could see having a sign to say that it is a teeter totter I don't recalll ever seeing one marked though. I have raced up them expecting it to be a jump as well, just to have it drop down when you get towards the end. But since you are hauling ass thinking it is a jump, you will usually jump it anyways. No harm no foul.

    I cold see marking it as a teeter because of some of the D Bags that ride mountain bikes and can't take responibility if they fall and get hurt. I happens.

    I can see what Flfish is saying I just don't think breakingbryan was being a cry baby

    BTW, Flfish, did youknow that the grape fruit trail got bulldozed. Very sad.

  11. #11
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    I'm tired of sanitization, caution signs, waivers, and any of the other crap that pollutes most trails in florida. Sorry for being crass, but it's gotten ridiculous at some places, and i'm tired of trying to convince others that personal responsibility plays a role in any "extreme" activity.

    Flboy - yeah, drove by grapefruit on the highway and saw the demolition. Sucks.

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    Sounds like you were going faster than your skill/reaction time. First time on a trail you should be taking it slower, so should anyone else. It sounds to me like you just saw a "ramp" and hauled balls up without even seeing the landing (like most see-saw's I've been on). Fish is right, although crass, but complaining that something can hurt you tends to make something go away. Coincidently, the things that can hurt us tend to be the most fun...conflict of interests?
    Jesse
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    I do understand where Fish is coming from, which is why I explicitly stated that "I'm one that believes MTB-ing is inherently dangerous and enjoy the challenge of staying safe" and "I certainly am not advocating placing signs wherever there is something dangerous".

    Anyway, Fish, your attitude is the holdup for me here. Maybe a less knee-jerk type of post could have elicited some more thoughtful conversation between us. I love riding things that are difficult, and did not say that I thought there was an unsafe feature at the park. I believe it is a well constructed and challenging feature on the trail, just maybe not displayed the best it could be. No sense in a heated argument over the internet.

    I agree that I should have surveyed the obstacle first, which I also acknowledged. Either way, it was a fun ride. Didn't mean to start anything here, and certainly don't want people to think it is an unsafe park, though I don't think anyone would interpret that from what I said. Part of my reasoning for asking here, was to determine whether or not it might be helpful to mention this to those who maintain the trails. I guess the resounding opinion would be no. Not trying to get into legal/liability stuff here, just thought it might be something that would make the trail flow better/make more sense. Like a helpful reminder.

  14. #14
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    You're making more an more sense with every post, i have to acknowledge that (i hope i'm doing the same). My point, however knee-jerk it was, is that this is a public forum and I really think some discretion is necessary when talking safety and public parks. It's a big deal and I *think* quiet waters has dealt with past lawsuits.... it was QW or Markham..... probably both. I think we just disagree on what ultimately needs to be done, my opinion is that signage for features is never the answer. I've ridden plenty of trails outside of florida that have no signage for insane ****, but that's just part of riding new trails, you ride it cautiously until you know it. I've paid in blood before, and mostly will again, it makes for good stories and scars.

    btw, I absolutely think you should express your opinion to the trail builders, in fact that's the probably the best possible place to do so. Brush can be cleared, and most likely you may lend a helping hand.

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    Cool, I'm glad we're understanding each other better now. I didn't think about this being a public forum where lawsuits and the like could stir up but I see what you mean. The last thing I want to do is get trails closed. I don't really have another good authority to go to on matters like this, which is why I came here. I'm sure there have been legal troubles for one of the Broward county parks because in order to ride there you now have to watch a safety video and sign a waiver.

    Though limited, I have ridden outside FL as well and while there was no signage for insane stuff like you say, the so-called insane stuff was on trails with other insane stuff and fit in with the scope of what the trail was. Well, whatever, I've made my case I'll stop harping on it.

    First half of the trail is way more fun/challenging than the second half of it, for those who haven't been there yet. Or, for those who have and want to talk about it.

    Hopefully the rain that's supposed to be here the rest of the week will get through here quickly. Tomorrow's supposed to be monsoon like.

  16. #16
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    i havent seen this personally, but my experiance is that its best to err on the side of caution when it comes to marking obstacles, especially man made ones. doesnt have to be anything elaborate, maybe just a picture of a teeter totter next to it so people know what it is.

    what i would suggest is that you mention it to one of the club members or trailworkers, im sure the bike shop across the street can tell you how to contact them. or better yet, offer to donate a sign
    Quote Originally Posted by HamfisT
    I understand that engineering has value in and of itself. But in the end, it's still just a pile of aluminum tubes.

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    The best way to get something done is to show up for TM. We meet at 9am on the 2nd and 4th Saturday of every month. If you want something done - show up and your voice will heard. Build a sign and bring it out - I will gladly supply you with any tools you need.

    Back on the original post - QW was designed and built from the ruins of the old Park. 99.5% of the trail is built on limestone gravel. The only reason there are smooth areas is through the efforts of the volunteers. Rain and drought were our priorities when we created the new trail. Sustainable trails are difficult in our extreme yearly climate change. We discourage people from riding when it is raining for several reasons: erosion, lightning, wood obstacles are slick...

    I hope to see more people on TM days. Enjoy

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