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Anyone else interested in the Moment?...

4K views 22 replies 11 participants last post by  SSINGA 
#1 ·
I had originally wanted to get an ID but got the Joker due to the better standover clearance with my short legs, especially when using a 6" dual crown fork. The Moment seems to have fixed that problem for me. I have had extreme new bike-itis ever since seeing the pic of the Moment in the interbike coverage.

Don't get me wrong, the Joker is a sweet ride, but I like the more traditional look of the Moment and have always wanted a 4-bar design bike. That said, the Joker is one of the best single pivot bikes I have ridden. It has fewer (or they are just not noticable) of the undesirable traits that most single pivots have.

A few of the online shops are taking orders and telling people late January - early Februrary, but I don't know where they are getting that info. I spoke with the folks at Ellsworth this week and it looks like it will be April before anyone sees one.
 

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#2 ·
I am very interested in this bike. I currently own a '98 Truth that I want to upgrade. I was originally thinking of just getting a new Truth, but after seeing the Moment, I think that would be a great long travel xc/trail bike. I hope that they can get those out sooner than April as I want to replace my frame around January/Februrary.
 
#3 ·
I was told they were testing different shocks and setups and wanted to make sure that they were "in love with it" before a public release. Hopefully the Romic EXC will still be an option when it is available. A 1.5 headtube and a 7" travel option would be nice also (if anyone at Ellsworth is reading). This bike would be awesome if you could put a 6" or 7" Sherman Breakout on it!!!!!!!!!
 
#6 ·
Light weight RFX...

Ratt said:
So not too interested but the bike looks a lot like an RFX taking only 1/3 of its daily steriod dose.
That is exactly what I'm looking for. The RFX was a bit overbuilt for hucking and big drops. I need somthing that is a little more XC friendly while still allowing me to do things that test my health insurance coverage.

The goemetry listed in the catalog looks similar to the 02 Joker so it sould be a good switch for me.
 
#7 ·
RFX Light...

SSINGA said:
That is exactly what I'm looking for. The RFX was a bit overbuilt for hucking and big drops. I need somthing that is a little more XC friendly while still allowing me to do things that test my health insurance coverage.

The goemetry listed in the catalog looks similar to the 02 Joker so it sould be a good switch for me.
Indeed the RFX sure seems to be surging in popularity lately. Too bad it wasn't this popular when it was in production. But rider's needs have changed.

A little known fact: The 5 Spot is exactly the same geometry as the RFX. Just a lighter tube set. Basically most of the fun for less weight. Can't huck it off your garage, but it'll take a mad beating.

Now about that EW Moment. SWEET bike! I can't wait to see what the final build is like. It seems they took all the "I wish" feedback from the Id and poured it into the Moment. (lower, laid back geometry, slightly beefier yadda) They may go beefier still considering how since they still have the Id, they may want to appeal to the more extreme trail riders.

Anyway, what with the Saber, and the Banzai, the Id, and the Moment, and the 5 Spot, '04 will a trail rider' s paradise.
 
#9 ·
Old Dare?

YaMon said:
This bike resembles the "old" Dare. What are the differences ?? The most obvious are a few reinforcements and the rocker seems a bit smaller. If the angles are the same I would still prefer the "old" Dare since it is probably stronger and can withstand more.
The Dare models have always been more "Free-ride" or DH oriented bike. If you were looking for somthing to "withstand more" as you put it I'd stick to the Dare or the Joker. The Moment, I believe, is aiming to be an everyday / all day use, all-around "trail-bike" that can be run down a DH course or 4x track but can also do all day epic cross country rides. It is more on the side of the Dare than the ID, geometry wise, which leans toward the Truth.

I guess we'll all see when it finally becomes available. I would be glad to do some East Coast testing if Ellsworth wants to give me a frame!!!!
 
#10 ·
Right here, dude.

I'm definitely interested. I saw it at the Interbike Dirt Demo but didn't have a chance to ride one. Everyone who rode it loved it, though. I think it will definitely be a while before anyone's getting their hands on a finished one, though.

I've been thinking about replacing my Id with something lower and lighter. Right now I'm starting to think about just replacing the coil suspension on my Id with a Fox Pro Pedal and Talas fork. That'd knock a couple pounds off my bike and Ellsworth has actually been selling a "California Edition" Id built just like that. It lightens it up and lowers the bottom bracket height 3/4 inch. Might be just the ticket, and I don't have to wait.
 
#12 ·
t66 said:
If you get tired of waiting I know where you can get a SWEEEET deal on a new 5 spot frame (your choice, size and color).

Give me a call.

PS. How bout a Curahee this W/E?

CG if you need a hint.
CG - No 5Spots! Gives up an inch of travel to the Moment. No Anodized finish. Standover way too tall for me (medium frame 31" w/ 5" fork). Only 1 year warranty.:p
 
#14 · (Edited)
SSINGA said:
CG - No 5Spots! Gives up an inch of travel to the Moment. No Anodized finish. Standover way too tall for me (medium frame 31" w/ 5" fork). Only 1 year warranty.:p
If standover is a priority, you may want to check where on the TT the Moment standover is measured at. The location can radically affect the results. (Due to tube slope)

Last year, the ID standover as indicated was measured directly up from ground through the BB. (at least the catalog diagram placed the dimension there)

The general way to measure the standover is about 6.5" in front of the BB. That is to say, with a level crank, just behind the foward pedal axle. On a 175mm crank that comes out to about 6.5" in front of the BB.

I assume this method is chosen because this is a place closer to where people actually stand, and the measurement method can be easily replicated. Measuring straight up through the bb can show a much lower standover because the slope of the TT brings the height lower at that point. But most people don't stand over the seat. They stand in front of it.

FWIW One bike I looked at was listed as a 32" standover. I stood over that bike and could barely clear the TT.(that bike was measured through the bb) I own another bike that is also listed as 32"(via the foward pedal) and have about 6"(real) between the TT and my true-inseam 38". On that same bike, the TT standover is 2" lower when measured through the BB, so where it is measured plays a big part. In the end, like any bike, you'll have to wait to see what the production values are to know for sure.

Oh, and I just realized there are different travel options for the Moment (How cool is that!) So that also changes things slightly. I can't wait for the reviews, that bike looks hot!
 
#16 ·
Take a MOMENT to research before you buy

The Moment does indeed look like a beautiful, rugged, all-mountain bike. Alas, this was the Id's positioning just 2 years ago. Now, the Id is a "long-travel XC bike". Funny, the Id's BB was listed at 13.5" originally, now 14" on the website. It is really 15". With a Romic and Z150 as shown on the website: at least 15.5". The head angle: this year it says 69.5, last year it was 70.

So, now we have a brand new all-mountain, "low slung" Moment, with a BB that is listed as .3" lower (13.7" vs. 14.0"), and a head angle .5 degrees slacker (69 vs. 69.5) than the XC-oriented Id. I defy anyone to "feel" that TINY difference in geometry. If those Id specs were anywhere near accurate, the Moment would be completely unnecessary, and would never have been developed. So now, you can pick up an Id cheap, because it is just a bad design, and is having its lunch eaten by Turner, Ventana, Foes etc.

Again, I think the Moment looks like a great all-mountain ride. But I would check it out in person, and measure it, before buying. Re. the Id, I hear there are changes coming. Bet a
lower BB is one of them, although again, measuring is believing!
 
#17 ·
jerseyguy said:
The Moment does indeed look like a beautiful, rugged, all-mountain bike. Alas, this was the Id's positioning just 2 years ago. Now, the Id is a "long-travel XC bike". Funny, the Id's BB was listed at 13.5" originally, now 14" on the website. It is really 15". With a Romic and Z150 as shown on the website: at least 15.5". The head angle: this year it says 69.5, last year it was 70.

So, now we have a brand new all-mountain, "low slung" Moment, with a BB that is listed as .3" lower (13.7" vs. 14.0"), and a head angle .5 degrees slacker (69 vs. 69.5) than the XC-oriented Id. I defy anyone to "feel" that TINY difference in geometry. If those Id specs were anywhere near accurate, the Moment would be completely unnecessary, and would never have been developed. So now, you can pick up an Id cheap, because it is just a bad design, and is having its lunch eaten by Turner, Ventana, Foes etc.

Again, I think the Moment looks like a great all-mountain ride. But I would check it out in person, and measure it, before buying. Re. the Id, I hear there are changes coming. Bet a
lower BB is one of them, although again, measuring is believing!
Where do you get all this info or is it just speculation on your part? Please share the source. I personally think the Id is a great ride and there is a lot of flexibility in how it can be set up. Companies like Turner have changed their designs as well so it's not only Tony who's doing it.

I have to say agree on one thing, I don't really understand the role of the moment. Slack head angles, low bottom bracket and air shock are not what I want on my trail bike. If I were to speculate, it would be to see the Id fade out of existence if the trend is where the Moment is going.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Role of the Moment

lidarman said:
Where do you get all this info or is it just speculation on your part? Please share the source. I personally think the Id is a great ride and there is a lot of flexibility in how it can be set up. Companies like Turner have changed their designs as well so it's not only Tony who's doing it.

I have to say agree on one thing, I don't really understand the role of the moment. Slack head angles, low bottom bracket and air shock are not what I want on my trail bike. If I were to speculate, it would be to see the Id fade out of existence if the trend is where the Moment is going.
I personally like the geometry numbers for the Moment ( from the catalog - website is not correct per Ellsworth CS). They are almost identical to my 02 Joker (which is 6" rear travel) which works quite well as a trail bike for me. I ride to maximixe the amount of time spent going downhill or airborne while still have to climb to the top of each and also enjoy slapping my Slider dual crown on and doing shuttled DH runs. I also am cursed with short legs (barely a 30" inseam) and a longish torso (a 23.5" TT fits me well) so most medium bikes are too tall and most smalls have too short of a TT.

I am the ideal Moment rider. All the good stuff from my Joker plus a 4-bar linkage!

Geometry Numbers for the Moment from the catalog

Size Rider Ht. Standover Top Tube Head Tube
15" <5'7" 27" 22.25" 4.75"
17" 5'5"-6'2" 28.5" 23.5" "
19" >5'9" 30.5" 24.25" "

Chainstay BB Ht. Wheel Base H/S Angle

16.75" 13.7" 41.5" 69/72
" " 42.5 "
" " 43.5 "<O:p></O:p>
 
#19 ·
SSINGA said:
I personally like the geometry numbers for the Moment ( from the catalog - website is not correct per Ellsworth CS). They are almost identical to my 02 Joker (which is 6" rear travel) which works quite well as a trail bike for me. I ride to maximixe the amount of time spent going downhill or airborne while still have to climb to the top of each and also enjoy slapping my Slider dual crown on and doing shuttled DH runs. I also am cursed with short legs (barely a 30" inseam) and a longish torso (a 23.5" TT fits me well) so most medium bikes are too tall and most smalls have too short of a TT.

I am the ideal Moment rider. All the good stuff from my Joker plus a 4-bar linkage!

Geometry Numbers for the Moment from the catalog

Size Rider Ht. Standover Top Tube Head Tube
15" <5'7" 27" 22.25" 4.75"
17" 5'5"-6'2" 28.5" 23.5" "
19" >5'9" 30.5" 24.25" "

Chainstay BB Ht. Wheel Base H/S Angle

16.75" 13.7" 41.5" 69/72
" " 42.5 "
" " 43.5 "<O:p></O:p>
Agreed! I really like the geometry, in fact I like all Ellsworths bikes geometry, they get it right, and the size always fits so perfectly.

Trevor!
 
#20 ·
lidarman said:
Where do you get all this info or is it just speculation on your part? Please share the source. I personally think the Id is a great ride and there is a lot of flexibility in how it can be set up. Companies like Turner have changed their designs as well so it's not only Tony who's doing it.

I have to say agree on one thing, I don't really understand the role of the moment. Slack head angles, low bottom bracket and air shock are not what I want on my trail bike. If I were to speculate, it would be to see the Id fade out of existence if the trend is where the Moment is going.
None of the numbers/facts are "speculation". The Moment's and Id's specs are on the Ellsworth site. The earlier published specs for the Id, as well as its "all-mountain/XC/Freeride" positioning, are from '02 and '03 catalogues. I had an '03 Id, with standard height (26.2") tires. BB measured slightly higher than 15", with an average height 5" fork (Fox). Finally, you can pick one up for $1,995 with a $700 TALAS fork thrown in for free (no such deals on the Truth or Moment) at Beyond Bikes right now.

If a 19" Id ACTUALLY had a 14" BB, and 69.5 degree head angle, and 32" standover, as it says on the website, it would be a VERY different bike from the 19" Id I bought (and sold). But it doesn't. And (this is speculation), it would be so close to the Moment that there would not BE a Moment.
 
#21 ·
jerseyguy said:
None of the numbers/facts are "speculation". The Moment's and Id's specs are on the Ellsworth site. The earlier published specs for the Id, as well as its "all-mountain/XC/Freeride" positioning, are from '02 and '03 catalogues. I had an '03 Id, with standard height (26.2") tires. BB measured slightly higher than 15", with an average height 5" fork (Fox). Finally, you can pick one up for $1,995 with a $700 TALAS fork thrown in for free (no such deals on the Truth or Moment) at Beyond Bikes right now.

If a 19" Id ACTUALLY had a 14" BB, and 69.5 degree head angle, and 32" standover, as it says on the website, it would be a VERY different bike from the 19" Id I bought (and sold). But it doesn't. And (this is speculation), it would be so close to the Moment that there would not BE a Moment.
Lemme see if i understand this. My Id has about 14.75" BB height standing on the floor. When I'm on it, it sags down to under 14" I guess one needs to know what the spec means? I would think with sag since that is when you are on it.

And the Id is designed around 5" to 6" fork. Fox forks have a short axle-to-crown length compared to Marzocchi so if you ran a 6" Marz on the Id, the head angle would be less than 69 deg. With a 5" fox, it's going to be near 70 deg. The moment will have similiar issues when you put different parts on it.

Like I said before, I don't understand the role of Moment completly but certainly, with the demand for 5" travel bikes, the moment is trying to fit in there with a slack head tube and low BB. I think the id is truly designed to be a 6" travel bike but a ton of us are running it at 5"

Maybe Tony ought to chime in here since he's roaming around talking about Brake bosses. This should be more important than that since several ppl are interested in it.
 
#22 ·
Oh, hey, Wait a Moment...

OK, we're all a little caught up in the Moment. Let me try and address some of the questions in this thread.

1. Id geometry was originally measured with Manitou Black, 120mm fork--the first fork in that 5" XC able fork class years ago when the Id was introduced. Thus the high BB, high standover rep that developed as time went on with longer XC-able forks, fatter XC-able tires, and the Romic shock, which is 1/8" longer then the Fox TC the Id was originally designed for. All this got the Id kinda on the high side--some love that, some hate it, some just love riding it regardless, but that my friends is what's up with Id geometry changing as time has progressed. If an Id today was set up in the XC fashion I designed it to be originally-it would still meet those original specs. But I myself run a little wider tire (taller too) and a Fox 125mm fork on the bike, and the BB height doesn't stop me from really enjoying that bike. But I like rooted, rocky technical rides, and the higher BB isn't a hindrance in that terrain. Recently I rode a trail called Viper in LA area&#8230; For that you needed a pedal draggin' sled&#8230; Different style riding. Fast loose and steeeeep, and fairly smooth?! For that, I'd configure that Id in the 5" mode which drops the BB and rakes back the head angle. That requires the use of a 7.5 x 2" shock. Bolts right on-and due to the Instant Center Tracking, the bike still pedals and stuff perfectly. Sorry, lot's of information-but much has been speculated on this subject, just thought I'd set the record strait.

2. We usually measure stand over to the top of the center of the top tube...you know, where you actually "stand over" the bike. I'll talk to the webmaster about the arrow on the specs page on the new site.

3. Moment geometry for production was just finalized last week. I ask to have the web geometry reflect production as soon as I finalized what I wanted it to be when all was said and done. It looks like it's been done. So what you see there on the new site, is what production will be WITH the equipment we measured with. I would say you could expect to see around .5 degree, and maybe .25" variance from tires and fork combos--but if that's critical to you, pay attention to the build.

4. Just as a helpful pointer--unofficially. Make sure ESPECIALLY mail order of course, that you verify the dealer your giving money to for a deposit WILL be getting Moments. And if not, you can get your deposit back.

5. The first build of these bikes (there IS limited production of this bike this year) is about 70% sold through. Assuming everything goes smoothly in Quality Control, the first ones would ship in late April...May. There is much that has to go right to hit those ship dates.

6. The bike is really neat. It accelerates like the Truth, but your down in it like the Joker. It's plush like the old dare (OLD '98)--but stronger and stiffer. It's got a low railing feeling to it, without being a pedal draggin' sled... And a stable wheelbase without turning like a tandem...I've really pleased with the frame. I'm looking forward to having a ton of fun with it.

7. I too love the feeling of the Joker--The Moment has a lot of those "feel" characteristics, in all the refinement and wonder that is and Instant Center Tracking four bar link...

OK, I've rambled enough...I like bikes. Cheers,

Tony
:)
 
#23 ·
Ahh...thanks Tony

Tony Ellsworth said:
4. Just as a helpful pointer--unofficially. Make sure ESPECIALLY mail order of course, that you verify the dealer your giving money to for a deposit WILL be getting Moments. And if not, you can get your deposit back.

5. The first build of these bikes (there IS limited production of this bike this year) is about 70% sold through. Assuming everything goes smoothly in Quality Control, the first ones would ship in late April...May. There is much that has to go right to hit those ship dates.

Tony
:)
:eek: Now that you sent me into a panic...I've been calling dealers for the last 1/2 hour trying to find one that has some Moments coming (only local dealer is a Galayns...no way am I droping mega $$$ on a bike from a big box - mass merchant). Any hints as to who is getting them??????;)
 
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