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  1. #1
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    Idea! What would you get????

    I want to build up a SS cross bike. I was thinking of getting a Surly to do the job. Should I get a Crosscheck or a Karate Monkey. What would you think the advantages or dis advantages of those frames would be?

  2. #2
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    Facing the same choice, I chose the Cross Check. Why? I already have several mtn bikes and had no road bikes. The cross check has a more roadie type geometry and I figured I could use it for centuries, etc. I have had the cc built up as a single speed, 8 speed, and now as a 24 speed. It is a very versatile bike.

    baker

  3. #3
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    New question here. No road use for this one.

    I have a road bike, So, this bike would see very little on road duty. It would mainly be ridden on dirt roads and double track, even some single track. I like the disc option on the monkey, but it might be over kill for light off road use? The monkey is over a puond heavier as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by baker
    Facing the same choice, I chose the Cross Check. Why? I already have several mtn bikes and had no road bikes. The cross check has a more roadie type geometry and I figured I could use it for centuries, etc. I have had the cc built up as a single speed, 8 speed, and now as a 24 speed. It is a very versatile bike.

    baker

  4. #4
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    get any frame...

    get any frame that's within your budget, and that budget would have to accomodate for ENO. But then again, ENO also works on horizontal and dedicated ss dropouts, and it would tension the chain for you, like the tension of finding out that you got a speeding ticket.

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  5. #5
    Appalachian Singletrack'n
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    I want to build up a SS cross bike. I was thinking of getting a Surly to do the job. Should I get a Crosscheck or a Karate Monkey. What would you think the advantages or dis advantages of those frames would be?
    I went through the same dilemma and chose the Cross Check. It mainly came down to Drop bar geometry and weight for me. Like Baker, I had several mountain bikes, and though I would like to try a 29’r, I didn’t think I would get as much use out of the Monkey. The Monkey’s top tube wasn’t right for me to use drop bars which was a must for me. The Monkey weighs pounds more than the CC and for my use the CC is plenty burly. I set my Cross Check up as a singlespeed CX, a geared “adventure bike” for extended (pavment/fireroad riding), and as a fixed gear rodie with 23c tires. I run 44c Mutanos on it and it rides amazingly smoothly on fireroads and smooth singletrack. The only thing I wish it had the CC had was disc brake mounts but the canties are getting me by just fine.
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  6. #6
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    What?

    Dude,
    What are you talking about? You don't need ENO on either frame, they have horizontal drop outs. They also are about the same price.
    I don't think I will have to worry about getting a speeding ticket on a singlespeed cross bike that is geared for off road.
    Are those Wisconsin winters getting to you?



    [QUOTE=ernesto_from_Wisconsin]get any frame that's within your budget, and that budget would have to accomodate for ENO. But then again, ENO also works on horizontal and dedicated ss dropouts, and it would tension the chain for you, like the tension of finding out that you got a speeding ticket.

    [

  7. #7
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    What was wrong with the KM with drop bars? What gearing did you go with for SS CX riding off road on your CC.
    Thanx


    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    I went through the same dilemma and chose the Cross Check. It mainly came down to Drop bar geometry and weight for me. Like Baker, I had several mountain bikes, and though I would like to try a 29’r, I didn’t think I would get as much use out of the Monkey. The Monkey’s top tube wasn’t right for me to use drop bars which was a must for me. The Monkey weighs pounds more than the CC and for my use the CC is plenty burly. I set my Cross Check up as a singlespeed CX, a geared “adventure bike” for extended (pavment/fireroad riding), and as a fixed gear rodie with 23c tires. I run 44c Mutanos on it and it rides amazingly smoothly on fireroads and smooth singletrack. The only thing I wish it had the CC had was disc brake mounts but the canties are getting me by just fine.
    [IMG]

  8. #8
    Appalachian Singletrack'n
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    I ride 42/24 for SS offroad and 42/16 for fixed road riding. That way I don’t have to mess with the cranks and rings to change from one to the other. As a comparison I ride 34/19 on my 26" SS Mtn bike. I live in a mountainous area.

    The top tube on my 56cm CC is 22.4" or 57cm I run a 120mmx25deg. stem and dirt drops and it works perfectly for me. I have a slightly shorter cockpit than my road bike with the drops a wee bit higher than the hoods on my road bike. To get a similar set up with the KM I would have to ride a small frame (which I thought was too small for me at 6'1") and it still has a 22.7" top tube. It just worked out for me your mileage may vary.

    Either way I have really enjoyed this style of bike It has opened up a lot of rides that I used to think where lame for the mtn bike and not possible on the rodie. Last weekend the trails where too wet so I did a sweet 47 mile loop that was 70% gravel road and had a blast.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the info

    I would get a 54cm CC. Which has the same top tube length as my road bike (56cm). I think a KM in a small would work fine too. I would just have to run a long post.
    I run 32x17 or 18 on my 26" mnt bike and 42x16 on my fixey/free. I was thinking of going around 2:1 for my ss CX.
    That loop sounds fun.
    Thanks again for the info.
    Todd


    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    I ride 42/24 for SS offroad and 42/16 for fixed road riding. That way I don’t have to mess with the cranks and rings to change from one to the other. As a comparison I ride 34/19 on my 26" SS Mtn bike. I live in a mountainous area.

    The top tube on my 56cm CC is 22.4" or 57cm I run a 120mmx25deg. stem and dirt drops and it works perfectly for me. I have a slightly shorter cockpit than my road bike with the drops a wee bit higher than the hoods on my road bike. To get a similar set up with the KM I would have to ride a small frame (which I thought was too small for me at 6'1") and it still has a 22.7" top tube. It just worked out for me your mileage may vary.

    Either way I have really enjoyed this style of bike It has opened up a lot of rides that I used to think where lame for the mtn bike and not possible on the rodie. Last weekend the trails where too wet so I did a sweet 47 mile loop that was 70% gravel road and had a blast.

  10. #10
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    similar dillema

    about a month ago I was going through a similar debate. I'll preface by saying that I've got a road bike, a ss cross bike, and a few ss mtn bikes. I was debating upgrading my ss cross bike to a cross check or getting a km. I decided on the km and I'm glad I did. I haven't ridden my cross bike since I got the km....I'm just loving the km so much. I'm planning on selling my cross bike because I don't think I have need for it anymore....if I want to ride skinny tires, I'll just put 'em on my km. It'll also be easy to swap bars to moustache bars if I want. I've got a fixed/free on the rear so I swap all the time for a good 'to the trail' fixed gear or a good trail gear. The fixed gear would be great w/ moustache bars and skinny tires (haven't tried that yet though w/ the km). So versatile IMO.

  11. #11
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    My head is spinning, make it stop!

    I don't know what to do, they both sound cool. I wish I could just get one of each. I can't afford to do that.
    I would be setting this up with drop bars, I already have wheels I just built that are more cross than mountain. If the CC came with disc mounts, I think it would be a no brainer, but it does not.
    What size is your CX bike?
    Thanks for the info, Todd


    Quote Originally Posted by qtip
    about a month ago I was going through a similar debate. I'll preface by saying that I've got a road bike, a ss cross bike, and a few ss mtn bikes. I was debating upgrading my ss cross bike to a cross check or getting a km. I decided on the km and I'm glad I did. I haven't ridden my cross bike since I got the km....I'm just loving the km so much. I'm planning on selling my cross bike because I don't think I have need for it anymore....if I want to ride skinny tires, I'll just put 'em on my km. It'll also be easy to swap bars to moustache bars if I want. I've got a fixed/free on the rear so I swap all the time for a good 'to the trail' fixed gear or a good trail gear. The fixed gear would be great w/ moustache bars and skinny tires (haven't tried that yet though w/ the km). So versatile IMO.

  12. #12
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    Got 'em both...

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    I want to build up a SS cross bike. I was thinking of getting a Surly to do the job. Should I get a Crosscheck or a Karate Monkey. What would you think the advantages or dis advantages of those frames would be?
    Had the KM decked out as a fixie road bike with Avocet Cross II tires. Now I have a CrossCheck decked out as same so the KM will go back to mountain duties.

    Comparison:

    CC - Road geometry (less standover), vee/canti posts (no discs), lighter, less tire clearance, less offroad worthy, semi-horizontal drops purpose built, "Gnot-rite" dropout spacing allows either a 130 or 135mm rear hub, ox blood red and black, slightly cheaper.

    KM - MTB geometry (more standover), vee/canti AND disc mounts, heavier, more tire clearance (whatever you want to run), more offroad worthy, hroizontal drops, unique as a cross bike, 135mm rear hub, camp stove green only, slightly more expensive.

    Can't go wrong with either, but if you're using it more offroad, I'd go for the KM, just for the versatility. Truly a do anything machine. If you end up more on the road, just throw on some inverse tread fatties (like the Avocet Cross IIs) and roll on baby.
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  13. #13
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    consider an older cross frame

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    I want to build up a SS cross bike. I was thinking of getting a Surly to do the job. Should I get a Crosscheck or a Karate Monkey. What would you think the advantages or dis advantages of those frames would be?
    You should also consider an older cross frame with semi-horizontal dropouts. I have a steel bianchi and it's used for road riding, commuting, and the occasional cross race. Look on ebay or wherever for the frames that say 'Cross Project USA' on the chainstay protector. But there are tons of similar frames like that out there for really cheap.

    trying to post a pic of it here. I have set it up SS, but never fixed. It has gears in this picture.

    Only boring people get bored.

  14. #14
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    Got 'em both...

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    I want to build up a SS cross bike. I was thinking of getting a Surly to do the job. Should I get a Crosscheck or a Karate Monkey. What would you think the advantages or dis advantages of those frames would be?
    Had a KM set up as an SS and a fixie cross bike. Now I've got a CC set up as a fixie cross and the KM is going back to mountain bike duties.

    Comparison:

    CC: lighter, cheaper (slightly), road/cross frame geometry (purpose built), less standover, less strong, vee/canti posts only (no discs), 2+ colors (Ox Blood Red and Black, Gnome Puke Green for older models), less tire clearance/options, gnot-rite dropouts fit 130mm and 135mm hubs, cool lugged front fork.

    KM: heavier, more costly (slightly), mountain geometry, more standover, stronger, vee/canti posts AND disc mounts, one color (Camp Stove Green) more tire clearance/options, 135mm hub dropouts, "plain" front fork.

    Both have rack mounts; both have a fixed derailleur hanger, both have 2 water bottle mount positions, both kick ass. Overall, if you only have one, I'd go with the KM just because of the versatility. It really is a do-all machine and you'll love it.
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  15. #15
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    Another small difference...

    the brake mounts on the KM are removable (both fork and frame); those on the CC are not (if you make a fixed gear CC with just a front brake, rear mounts will remain on the frame).
    Last edited by iconoclaSSt; 01-15-2004 at 01:03 PM.

  16. #16
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    Double post (for the most part) - ignore. nm

    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclaSSt
    Had a KM set up as an SS and a fixie cross bike. Now I've got a CC set up as a fixie cross and the KM is going back to mountain bike duties.

    Comparison:

    CC: lighter, cheaper (slightly), road/cross frame geometry (purpose built), less standover, less strong, vee/canti posts only (no discs), 2+ colors (Ox Blood Red and Black, Gnome Puke Green for older models), less tire clearance/options, gnot-rite dropouts fit 130mm and 135mm hubs, cool lugged front fork.

    KM: heavier, more costly (slightly), mountain geometry, more standover, stronger, vee/canti posts AND disc mounts, one color (Camp Stove Green) more tire clearance/options, 135mm hub dropouts, "plain" front fork.

    Both have rack mounts; both have a fixed derailleur hanger, both have 2 water bottle mount positions, both kick ass. Overall, if you only have one, I'd go with the KM just because of the versatility. It really is a do-all machine and you'll love it.
    nice magic

  17. #17
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    That's right!

    Hey steve,
    I saw that you just got the cross check built up. I forgot you had the monkey.
    Nice summary of the two.
    My dilema with the KM, is that my parts really belong on a cross frame. But I like the disc tabs and the possibility of building a 29er. How stupid would the KM look with cross parts on it?
    It would be built up with drop bars, cxp22 rims with surly 1x1 fixed/free hubs. I would have to get brakes and a stem. I should have all of the rest of the parts. I currently have the parts on a old cannondale crit frame that someone stripped all the cable stops and hanger off of to make a track frame. It rides fine but it's not getting used much. So, I was thinking of finding a new home for that frame set and doin' the cross thing.
    Where have you been riding these days?
    Later,Todd




    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclaSSt
    Had the KM decked out as a fixie road bike with Avocet Cross II tires. Now I have a CrossCheck decked out as same so the KM will go back to mountain duties.

    Comparison:

    CC - Road geometry (less standover), vee/canti posts (no discs), lighter, less tire clearance, less offroad worthy, semi-horizontal drops purpose built, "Gnot-rite" dropout spacing allows either a 130 or 135mm rear hub, ox blood red and black, slightly cheaper.

    KM - MTB geometry (more standover), vee/canti AND disc mounts, heavier, more tire clearance (whatever you want to run), more offroad worthy, hroizontal drops, unique as a cross bike, 135mm rear hub, camp stove green only, slightly more expensive.

    Can't go wrong with either, but if you're using it more offroad, I'd go for the KM, just for the versatility. Truly a do anything machine. If you end up more on the road, just throw on some inverse tread fatties (like the Avocet Cross IIs) and roll on baby.

  18. #18
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    spend the money on a airline ticket...

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    I want to build up a SS cross bike. I was thinking of getting a Surly to do the job. Should I get a Crosscheck or a Karate Monkey. What would you think the advantages or dis advantages of those frames would be?
    to come out to the desert to see your friend you knuckle head. You could bring your twocircles and show it off. I personally think you should get the KM, and convert to cross, and you could upgrade to discs when you get the chance.

    Scooter
    veelz

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  19. #19
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    I've been looking

    Sounds great, find me a nice 54cm CX frame for cheap and I will take it. Nice Bianchi!

    Quote Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape
    You should also consider an older cross frame with semi-horizontal dropouts. I have a steel bianchi and it's used for road riding, commuting, and the occasional cross race. Look on ebay or wherever for the frames that say 'Cross Project USA' on the chainstay protector. But there are tons of similar frames like that out there for really cheap.

    trying to post a pic of it here. I have set it up SS, but never fixed. It has gears in this picture.


  20. #20
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    Send on of those pigs my way and I will just hang on till they get ot AZ. Hey I don't see you comin to MD, either!
    What's in Tusson that I just HAVE to see? I need to make it more appealing to Mrs.32seventeen.


    Quote Originally Posted by veelz
    to come out to the desert to see your friend you knuckle head. You could bring your twocircles and show it off. I personally think you should get the KM, and convert to cross, and you could upgrade to discs when you get the chance.

    Scooter

  21. #21
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    I think the KM would look sweet decked out as a...

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    Hey steve,
    I saw that you just got the cross check built up. I forgot you had the monkey.
    Nice summary of the two.
    My dilema with the KM, is that my parts really belong on a cross frame. But I like the disc tabs and the possibility of building a 29er. How stupid would the KM look with cross parts on it?
    It would be built up with drop bars, cxp22 rims with surly 1x1 fixed/free hubs. I would have to get brakes and a stem. I should have all of the rest of the parts. I currently have the parts on a old cannondale crit frame that someone stripped all the cable stops and hanger off of to make a track frame. It rides fine but it's not getting used much. So, I was thinking of finding a new home for that frame set and doin' the cross thing.
    Where have you been riding these days?
    Later,Todd
    cross bike. In fact, I bought the moustache bars intending to put them on the KM to continue running it as a road/cross bike...then the holidays rolled around and I got the CC. I also wanted to give the KM another (real) chance as a 29er MTB, especially for the winter, when larger tires (bigger contact patch) and discs can come in particularly handy (especially in snow rides).

    So, I'm endorsing the KM. More unique, more options, and just plain funky looking (but in a GOOD way).

    As for where I've been riding, not much offroad the past 2 weeks--short Accotink ride one night last week and Patapsco last Sunday...weather, the new CC (fixed is sweeeet!), and a penchant for conveniently placed brewpubs have me on the W&OD more lately. Hitting it again tonight, in fact. Guess I'm building a good training base for warmer weather. We'll see.
    "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!'' -- Henri Desgrange, from an article in L'Equipe

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  22. #22
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    go check the 29er board

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    I don't know what to do, they both sound cool. I wish I could just get one of each. I can't afford to do that.
    I would be setting this up with drop bars, I already have wheels I just built that are more cross than mountain. If the CC came with disc mounts, I think it would be a no brainer, but it does not.
    What size is your CX bike?
    Thanks for the info, Todd

    ask the 29er board for photos of KM's built up either cross style of w/ drop bars....I think they look down right pretty.

    My Miyata cx bike has a 55cm center to top of seat tube and a 57cm actual top tube. Ken in KC might be interested in it, but let me know if you are in case he doesn't want it.

  23. #23
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    The Freaking WEATHER

    Quote Originally Posted by 32seventeen
    Send on of those pigs my way and I will just hang on till they get ot AZ. Hey I don't see you comin to MD, either!
    What's in Tusson that I just HAVE to see? I need to make it more appealing to Mrs.32seventeen.
    How many times do I have to tell you, I get to wear shorts every damn day. The fact that I can see the horizon and sunset/sunrises. You never have to deal with mud. You can watch my sorry a$$ ride a few laps at the 24hr. No one can resist the need to carry pliers to pull cactus spines out of your skin! Dust comes off a bike much easier than goose crap from Clopper lake.

    Scott


    That, and this is my back yard
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