I never understood why anyone would ride a rigid SS. My friend had a Stout SE sitting around collecting dust, so I figured I would get it a try. Now that is all I want to ride. I built a Salsa Spearfish and I have over $4000 in it and I am riding a $300 SS. So I think I am going to go with one of these 2 bikes. I have also thought of diSSent, but after building one I think you come out alot better to buy a complete bike then maybe upgrade. You also get to see if the upgrade was really worth the $$$.
Both are good bikes. I ride El Mariachi. It is more an adventure bike not so racey as my giant XTC (26er) was. But it can take a beating (with easton haven wheels) and suits my riding style really whell - just what I wanted for rigid SS - go anywhere bike. I haven't tried Carve, but I think It's lighter (with alu frame and carbon fork) and accelerates better (stiffer alu frame). I think that Salsa should have more compliant ride but people say Carve is also good. I had an alu giant XTC 26er with carbon fork (that was a rocket) before I broke it, so I can say that I like the ovarall feelling of salsa (steel?) better.
Another question is tensioning system. Carve has EBB, salsa has swinging dropouts. I like the swinging dropouts - it works well for me.
If you are searching for the complete bike - Carve is a good deal, It can be raced out of the box, and if you get lighter wheels it'l be a rocket!
When I was building my SS I was thinking between a light more race-oriented bike (carbon fork, carbon or alu frame, light XC wheels, light race tyres) and an trustworthy go anywhere XC bike (steel frame and fork, good XC/trail wheels, grippy allround tyres, no carbon). I've decided for the second option and I'm happy with my choice (also relatively light at 10,4 kg = 22,9 lb).
I'm on the fence about this as well... I'm sorta considering a SS and got the chance to ride a Carve last night and an El Mariachi this morning. I was sure I'd love the Carve - I think my wife believed we would walk out of there with it as I left on the test ride. After riding through the parking lot and on/off curbs, then through a nearby field. Not even close to a real test, but the best I could do. I found the ride harsh and stiff (I'm used to an aluminum hardtail Stumpy).
The El M this morning was a different experience. It too was only a parking lot & curb test, but the bike seemed far more responsive and more comfortable. It somehow felt more alive under me. I really enjoyed it a great deal more.
Anyway, I don't mean to pretend that I gave either of them a real test ride, but it was fascinating to feel the difference. For whatever it's worth, I also rode a $700 Trek Marlin SS that couldn't even compare to either of the other two.
I'm on the fence about this as well... I'm sorta considering a SS and got the chance to ride a Carve last night and an El Mariachi this morning. I was sure I'd love the Carve - I think my wife believed we would walk out of there with it as I left on the test ride. After riding through the parking lot and on/off curbs, then through a nearby field. Not even close to a real test, but the best I could do. I found the ride harsh and stiff (I'm used to an aluminum hardtail Stumpy).
The El M this morning was a different experience. It too was only a parking lot & curb test, but the bike seemed far more responsive and more comfortable. It somehow felt more alive under me. I really enjoyed it a great deal more.
Anyway, I don't mean to pretend that I gave either of them a real test ride, but it was fascinating to feel the difference. For whatever it's worth, I also rode a $700 Trek Marlin SS that couldn't even compare to either of the other two.
Did you run the same tires and pressures on both bikes? Ride quality on my steel Monocog goes from miserable on the 2.1 Ignitors with tubes to silky bliss on the 2.2 Slant6 setup tubeless. I test rode an Al hardtail Trek 29er at the LBS a while back. I thought the ride was terrible, but then realized it was on Spec Fastracks with 35psi in them. Hardly a fair comparison to my Slant6 setup that I run 20psi in, so I had to try to ignore the ride quality issue. I think when I next test ride a bike I'll bring my own wheel set with me so I can eliminate a feel difference due to tires.
Both bikes complete are the same price, but the El Mariachi has better brakes and arguably better wheels, The Carve will be a couple pounds lighter out of the box. Geometry is significantly different on both bikes (wheelbase is about the same though) so that should really be the deciding factor (i.e. how you personally like how each handles).
While the Carve looks to be a nice ride, the Salsa is far more versatile. And it's steel. A lot of folks smarter than me out there, but my experience says steel has better ride qualities... in regards to both frame & fork.
Ditch your inventory. Take said funds & buy swanky wheels & a 1x? setup. You've now got options. This also applies to a Nimble frame but if you find a medium before me I'll be so pissed that I might drink even moar beer which means you'd suck. Really bad.
While the Carve looks to be a nice ride, the Salsa is far more versatile. And it's steel. A lot of folks smarter than me out there, but my experience says steel has better ride qualities... in regards to both frame & fork.
Ditch your inventory. Take said funds & buy swanky wheels & a 1x? setup. You've now got options. This also applies to a Nimble frame but if you find a medium before me I'll be so pissed that I might drink even moar beer which means you'd suck. Really bad.
I wished I had a Salsa Dealer close, but I don't. I have to drive almost 3 hours for the closest one. I think that is what I am going to go with though.
My vote is with the carve. The mariachi is nice. I had one for a year but it feels dull in comparison. The specialized is just a quicker handling bike.
El Mariachi all the way...Love mine! As pictured 21.35lbs size large...Once I put the Whiskey carbon fork and xx1 cranks on it...it will be down to just over 20...Not bad for a 5.5lb frame....
I am biased. But this is my first SS, and I am having tons of fun on it. Took 3rd in a race this past weekend on it behind a couple geared bikes. Honestly, I feel this it is more nimble and better handling than my full squish Titus Racer X. Weighs 23 lbs in its current setup.
Sevenz - you mind listing your parts list? Interested to see how you got it to 21.35 lbs. Think I have some pretty light stuff on mine (although running heavier tires)
Large El Mar Frame and Fork
Stans 355's with Rocket Rons
Kcnc Ti Lite Seat Post
Salsa Pro Moto Carbon bars
Salsa Pro Moto 1 Stem
ESI Grips
Magura MT2 Brakes with Storm SL Rotors
Truvativ Firex Crank W/ Race Face 32t ring
Chris King 18t Cog
Crankbro's Candy 1 pedals
As I posted before, once my Whiskey fork and xx1 cranks come in it will drop another pound +...
nice.....
I'm enjoying mine for just about a year now.
First set up as a SS for six months until I got my other steel frame repaired.
switched out to a 1 x 10 and now I have two steel HT's one SS one 1 x 10.
it's pretty nice to have the choice! :thumbsup:
I would take the El Mar based on tension system and the fact that its going to ride nicer being steel.
An aluminum frame, narrow rims, and narrow tires are going to be a rough ride regardless if it has a nice carbon fork on it or not. EBBs creak...its annoy as sh!t trying to muscle up a steep climb out of the saddle and its the only thing on your bike making noise. Also, anytime you change the rear cog or tension the chain, your entire bike geometry changes. Its not a lot, but it can mean that you have to adjust the seatpost or the seat to get it to feel right.
THe Rockers (slider type) allows you to fine tune you chainstay length for quicker turning or a bit more stability while descending. I went from EBB to Sliders and I'll never go back.
Mariachi if you have to choose between those two without a doubt. The Carve is going to ride like a beer can, the Mariachi is going to ride like buttah.
Remember the wise proverb here.....Aluminum is steel they sucked all the soul out of.
I have the El Mariachi SS (XL) Special Edition with the following done to it.
Tires swap for Mountain Kings 2.2 (stock are Trail King little taller and fatter)
Stans tubeless setup
Chain rings and chain replaced Qring 34/Surly 18 with KMC Gold X-9 chain as short as possible.
Shimano Pro Carbon Seat Post
Stella Glider seat
Richty Stem
I just weight her on Friday night Clean and dry Total weight is 25.1
So I do not know how some other guys are claiming lighter weight.
I am thinking about putting on a Ninner fork that would shave 1lb exactly cause we weight the stock vs. Ninner already.
This is a solid bike and I have been extremely happy with it. Stem and seat post were replace during Fit.
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