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  1. #1
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    Softail for SS ok?

    I recently cannabilized my Moots YBB to build up a FS geared bike, but I love the frame and it's beckoning me to build it back up as SS.

    My concern is the softail and chain tension, will that work? It has vertical drops so maybe a singleator would take care of the tension change? Then again, I'll need a new rear wheel so it would be nice to use a ENO hub in lieu of the chain tensioner.

    Any opinions?

    thanks!

  2. #2
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    I strongly suspect you will need a tension device that is spring loaded. One that locks in the tension probably will not work. It seems to me that even the small movement in a sof tail's rear end relative to the BB will necesatate the chain being able move

    I bet some body else has tried that may have better insight into this.

  3. #3
    minister of chaos
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidermonkey
    I recently cannabilized my Moots YBB to build up a FS geared bike, but I love the frame and it's beckoning me to build it back up as SS.

    My concern is the softail and chain tension, will that work? It has vertical drops so maybe a singleator would take care of the tension change? Then again, I'll need a new rear wheel so it would be nice to use a ENO hub in lieu of the chain tensioner.

    Any opinions?

    thanks!
    I've not done it myself, but I have a friend who has done this very thing to his YBB. He found the "perfect gear" and NEVER had the chain come off. IIRC, Moots used to offer the YBB with track drops. The change in chainstay length with that type of suspension is very minimal.

    Cheers,
    Frank Tuesday
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  4. #4
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    ive done it by using 34 16 and have locked ot rear end real blst to ride you wont regret it

  5. #5
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidermonkey
    I recently cannabilized my Moots YBB to build up a FS geared bike, but I love the frame and it's beckoning me to build it back up as SS.

    My concern is the softail and chain tension, will that work? It has vertical drops so maybe a singleator would take care of the tension change? Then again, I'll need a new rear wheel so it would be nice to use a ENO hub in lieu of the chain tensioner.

    Any opinions?

    thanks!
    Mugg has had a YBB Uno for the last two years, and I've never heard of the chain inadvertantly derailling. jhonthecape has a Merlin Echo (YBB rear end) and runs an ENO. I don't think he's had any problems either. Just do a search for jh_on_the_cape, or he might chime in anyway...


    Mugg's beauty:

  6. #6
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    Now that's a sweet ride!

    I have to do it now! Sounds/looks like it shouldn't be a problem, in fact it seems like an awesome ride for a SS setup (except those vert. drops).

    Think Moots would weld on a set of horizontal dropouts? I'm sure going with the ENO hub would be a cheaper option than that. What's the consensus on the ENO hub, are they treatin' people right?

    Thanks again!

  7. #7
    ali'i hua
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnelson
    ive done it by using 34 16 and have locked ot rear end real blst to ride you wont regret it
    I've hard that 32:17 on a dean duke will yield a tensionerless SS ST.

    just heard. never tried. my Duke wants to be a gearie.

  8. #8
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidermonkey
    I have to do it now! Sounds/looks like it shouldn't be a problem, in fact it seems like an awesome ride for a SS setup (except those vert. drops).

    Think Moots would weld on a set of horizontal dropouts? I'm sure going with the ENO hub would be a cheaper option than that. What's the consensus on the ENO hub, are they treatin' people right?

    Thanks again!
    ENO = good. I like mine, and others here like theirs as well.

    I think Mugg talked to Moots about putting on horizontal drops. (His Uno was built with horizontals from the beginning.) I can't remember if they said it cost too much, or if he just wanted another YBB in the stable (he has both a geared and uno). Give them a ring, but I'm pretty sure a drop' chop will be many times more expensive than an ENO.
    Last edited by Drevil; 04-18-2004 at 07:14 AM.

  9. #9
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    there isn't any change in chainstay length...

    with softtails, the chainstay is flexing up and down, but its actual length is a constant. Same goes with FS's which use a concentric BB pivot.

  10. #10
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    KHS Solo-One

    KHS makes a "soft tail" singlespeed. The bike goes for less than $500(fully rigid). A buddy of mine rides one, and he's never had a single problem with dropping the chain.

  11. #11
    try driving your car less
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidermonkey
    I have to do it now! Sounds/looks like it shouldn't be a problem, in fact it seems like an awesome ride for a SS setup (except those vert. drops).

    Think Moots would weld on a set of horizontal dropouts? I'm sure going with the ENO hub would be a cheaper option than that. What's the consensus on the ENO hub, are they treatin' people right?

    Thanks again!
    I have a YBB rear end on my merlin, with an ENO hub, and it works very well. just realize that you cannot run a rear disc brake. It is most likely cheaper than installing new dropouts. But if you really want to hack it up, consider an eccentric bottom bracket, but that will cost more $$.
    I went through the same thing, and got the ENO. it works, and if you ever want to build the ybb back to geared, you can put the eno wheel on a different bike.
    Only boring people get bored.

  12. #12
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    The ENO hub seems like the right fix ...

    Thanks for the info JH. I've read a bit about the Moots EBB and it sounds like a great idea - and solves the eccentric hub & rear disc problem - but it seems like it's really hacking up a really nice frame, not to mention an expensive retrofit (I assume). I guess vert. drops are more versatile too, in case i ever want to sell the frame or rebuild it as a gearie (shudder).

    I'll have to check with Moots on the EBB option, if they even do it.

    Thanks!

  13. #13
    hmmmmm
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    Soft tails okay with me

    I'm riding the KHS Solo One with 3/4" travel. Never had a chain problem, and the little bit of flex helps my 43 year old ass from getting hammered. I could ride the thing all day.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA monkeyboy
    I'm riding the KHS Solo One with 3/4" travel. Never had a chain problem, and the little bit of flex helps my 43 year old ass from getting hammered. I could ride the thing all day.
    I just ordered the 2004 KHS Solo One and had some questions:

    1) Is the 3/4" travel enough to really make a difference in the ride?
    2) If more damping was wanted is the shock a standard size that can be swapped out?
    3) I know they changed the ratio to 2:1 and the tires for Kenda Karma Kevlar, but are there other changes that you notice from the 2003 KHS Solo One?
    4) What disc brakes would be able to be used on the Solo One ? (it appears to have disc mounts in the front.)
    5) I have seen some posts noting the need for something to keep the hub in the horizontal dropouts from slipping, so I included a Surly Tuggnut Tensioner in my order. Have you had any problems with the back hub slipping forward?
    6) What would be a reasonable suspension fork that would work with this bike?

    Answer any question that appeal to you.

    Thanks

  15. #15
    hmmmmm
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    1) Is the 3/4" travel enough to really make a difference in the ride?
    It takes a lot of the vibration away that you usually get on a hard tail. Much easier on the back

    2) If more damping was wanted is the shock a standard size that can be swapped out?
    The shock is simply an elastomer, slightly adjustable by compressing the collet, but it really is not that adjustable. The elastomer may be replaceable, but you will probably find it does the job

    3) I know they changed the ratio to 2:1 and the tires for Kenda Karma Kevlar, but are there other changes that you notice from the 2003 KHS Solo One?
    Now it's BLACK!

    4) What disc brakes would be able to be used on the Solo One ? (it appears to have disc mounts in the front.)
    Mine only has mounts for a front brake. Anything would fit.

    5) I have seen some posts noting the need for something to keep the hub in the horizontal dropouts from slipping, so I included a Surly Tuggnut Tensioner in my order. Have you had any problems with the back hub slipping forward?
    I'm using the Tuggnut, the rear wheel on any SS has a tendancy to slide.

    6) What would be a reasonable suspension fork that would work with this bike?
    Keep it rigid, the bike handles like a freakin' Ferreri. Keep your tire pressure a bit low to absorb most of the small bumps.

    I love this bike. I also own a Yeti ASR full squish, decked out with great components, and I find myself riding the SS more than the squish. It's an awesome price for all you get.

    I hope you enjoy this bike as much as I do. Have fun.

  16. #16
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    What disc brakes would be able to be used on the Solo One ? (it appears to have disc mounts in the front.)
    Mine only has mounts for a front brake. Anything would fit.

    Did your front HUB on the Solo One come ready with the ability to mount a disc brake or would I have to change the hub as well? (i.e. Avid Mechanical Front Disc. There should be 6 holes in the hub to mount the disc. Right?)

  17. #17
    hmmmmm
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    You need toreplace the hub

  18. #18
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    ENO disc hub...

    regarding the ENO and a disc - there is a prototype in the works, seen in some of the Sea Otter collections (not sure if here or elsewhere). I wouldn't hold your breath, but its worth bearing in mind you may be able to sell on the ENO and get an eccentric disc hub in the future :-)

    ian

  19. #19
    Steamroller
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    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    KHS makes a "soft tail" singlespeed. The bike goes for less than $500(fully rigid). A buddy of mine rides one, and he's never had a single problem with dropping the chain.
    I ride a Solo-one and have never dropped a chain.
    [SIZE=2]Two Wheeled and Too Big[/SIZE]

  20. #20
    Steamroller
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    Solo-one discs

    Quote Originally Posted by SOLO_ONE
    What disc brakes would be able to be used on the Solo One ? (it appears to have disc mounts in the front.)
    Mine only has mounts for a front brake. Anything would fit.

    Did your front HUB on the Solo One come ready with the ability to mount a disc brake or would I have to change the hub as well? (i.e. Avid Mechanical Front Disc. There should be 6 holes in the hub to mount the disc. Right?)
    Avid mech is working good on mine and the front hub on my '04 (powertools I think)was disc ready straight from KHS.
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  21. #21
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    Monkeyboy got it pretty right

    But IMHO the bike can benefit from a supension fork ( maybe because I'm old and have seperated my shoulder one too many times). I really like the Marzocchi MX Pro ECC 105 that I have on mine. Fox forks are nice too, but pricey.

    The tuggnut was a good move, use the QR adaptor and drill it out to fit the axel, it works better that way. The tuggnut has a little thumbscrew with locktite on it for the adjustment, and unless you have gorilla fingers you won't be able to loosen it for a tire change on the trail. I took a small cheap nutdriver and cut a notch in it and carry it in my bag. Pliers or a small crescent would work too. I'm glad I figured this out before I had a flat miles out on a ride.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattman
    Avid mech is working good on mine and the front hub on my '04 (powertools I think)was disc ready straight from KHS.
    I noticed on the KHS web site, the spec for the hubs says "Formula F/Disc". I can see the front mount and it looks like the front hub is disc ready. Is there a back disc mount as well? (I'm considering getting the Avid Mechanical disc brake(s) before the bike arrives.)

    Also, did you simply add a front disc or both a front and back disc? Can you or someone offer an opinion on using a disc brake on the front and a V-brake on the back?

  23. #23
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOLO_ONE
    Can you or someone offer an opinion on using a disc brake on the front and a V-brake on the back?
    It works fine. Most of your stopping power comes from the front brake, no matter what kind you have up there. Putting a disc up front makes braking less of a chore. If you're running Avid levers (or any other one with adjustable leverage) you can get the brakes to feel similar.

  24. #24
    Steamroller
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    Drevil's right

    It works great and I have adjusted my brakes to contact at the same point in the lever travel. My '04 has no rear disc tabs and it probably wouldn't work well with the horizontal drops.
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