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  1. #1
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    Sliding Pivot LES Swinger drop-outs problem

    Hey all -

    I'm at my wit's end. Talked to Pivot and LBS, and no-one has a solid explanation for this. My 2nd gen swinger drop-outs are installed per the installation manual, lactate applied, torqued to specs, etc.

    And yet, during each and every ride, the drop-outs move. Sometimes I need to adjust after each ride due to excessive chain slack, other times it's good for about 3 rides before an adjustment is needed.

    Gearing is 32 / 20, and most rides are proper Colorado rides, which means oodles of climbing, and therefor oodles of torques exerted.

    Help?!



    - olaf

  2. #2
    no batteries required
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    You are absolutely sure that it is not chain wear?
    Nothing that's worth anything is ever easy - M. Hall

  3. #3
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    For sure. Usually needs a few clicks of adjustment after EACH ride. Do you have a LES set up as SS?

  4. #4
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    You should ride slower and stop pedaling so hard...

  5. #5
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    Ha! Brilliant. Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs View Post
    You should ride slower and stop pedaling so hard...

  6. #6
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    You're welcome!

    Or buy an 7-year old steel Spot Brand frame with Paragon sliding dropouts. No problems here.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs View Post
    You're welcome!

    Or buy an 7-year old steel Spot Brand frame with Paragon sliding dropouts. No problems here.
    Where would I find such a thing?

  8. #8
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    YES! I knew I chose the right newfangled dropout system: The GIANT XTC!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by chronos View Post
    For sure. Usually needs a few clicks of adjustment after EACH ride. Do you have a LES set up as SS?
    Actually, this happens to me as well on my Lurcher and it's due to chain stretch (at least in my case). I have to tighten it after almost every ride. I tend to go tight like virgin which is way too tight in most people's eyes. I think you should get a digital chain stretchometer and prepare to be amazed at how much damage your puny twig legs can actually do to a drivetrain.

  9. #9
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    I would verify exactly where the problem is:

    -Set up the chain tension as normal before a ride. Then measure the exact location (with a pair of calipers, not a ruler) of the dropouts vs a fixed known point on the frame. This way you can know for sure if and exactly how much your dropouts moved. I would take this measurement on both sides, drive and non-drive.

    -The recommendation of measuring the actual chain is also a good idea as it will reinforce your findings with measuring the dropout location.

    If your dropouts are slipping have you tried to apply a little friction paste to the frame / dropout interface?

  10. #10
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    ha! No offense, but that sounds crazy. Chains don't stretch in such a measurable way in a singe ride. I've been riding SS bikes for the past 11 years, and this has never occurred before.

    I'll report back once I fix the issue. Who knows, might help your Lurcher issue too.


    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    YES! I knew I chose the right newfangled dropout system: The GIANT XTC!!!



    Actually, this happens to me as well on my Lurcher and it's due to chain stretch (at least in my case). I have to tighten it after almost every ride. I tend to go tight like virgin which is way too tight in most people's eyes. I think you should get a digital chain stretchometer and prepare to be amazed at how much damage your puny twig legs can actually do to a drivetrain.

  11. #11
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    Thanks. Good input. I marked the exact position of the adjustment screws, so will be able to see if they turn during tonight's ride.

    Friction Paste sounds interesting. Any faves?

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    I would verify exactly where the problem is:

    -Set up the chain tension as normal before a ride. Then measure the exact location (with a pair of calipers, not a ruler) of the dropouts vs a fixed known point on the frame. This way you can know for sure if and exactly how much your dropouts moved. I would take this measurement on both sides, drive and non-drive.

    -The recommendation of measuring the actual chain is also a good idea as it will reinforce your findings with measuring the dropout location.

    If your dropouts are slipping have you tried to apply a little friction paste to the frame / dropout interface?

  12. #12
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    Do yourself a favor and actually take some measurements from a known point on the dropouts to a known fixed reference off the frame. It gives you a definitive answer as to what is going on.

    I like the FSA friction paste, it seems to work. It's also called carbon assembly paste. Just make sure the mateing surfaces are good and clean then a small amount of the carbon paste should do the trick. You may want to bounce it off Pivot before trying the friction paste.

    Best of luck!

  13. #13
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    Thanks. Will definitely do. And report back.

  14. #14
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    Update:

    before last night's ride, I added a dab of blue 242 loctite on the two adjustment screws, and the drop-outs did not move during the ride (which involved a few burly 15% pitches).

    As I was lubing the chain in the parking lot, it occurred to me, that that might be the culprit. Out of habit, I normally lube the chain right above the rear cog. Now I wonder if some of that lube worked it's way into the swinger drop-out, and that's how the whole slippage started. I will clean the whole assembly with brake cleaner, and report back.

  15. #15
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    Good thought! I always try and lube my chains under the chainstay about in the center of the stay so to keep as much lube I can away from the brakes, and cog/cassette. I find things stay cleaner and last longer that way, maybe it doesn't ammount to much but I like the idea of it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chronos View Post
    ha! No offense, but that sounds crazy. Chains don't stretch in such a measurable way in a singe ride. I've been riding SS bikes for the past 11 years, and this has never occurred before.

    I'll report back once I fix the issue. Who knows, might help your Lurcher issue too.
    They most definitely do. I've experienced this when I was using SRAM PC9xx chains. Doesn't take a lot of wear across 38-40 links before you have a considerably slacker chain.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by solo-x View Post
    They most definitely do. I've experienced this when I was using SRAM PC9xx chains. Doesn't take a lot of wear across 38-40 links before you have a considerably slacker chain.
    Yep, a mm of adjustment when tensioning a chain can make a big difference.
    .02mm of wear per link is about the same.

    Could also be accounted for by tensioning with a lubed chain?
    When it drys out it's fractionally slacker?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chronos View Post
    Update:

    before last night's ride, I added a dab of blue 242 loctite on the two adjustment screws, and the drop-outs did not move during the ride (which involved a few burly 15% pitches).

    As I was lubing the chain in the parking lot, it occurred to me, that that might be the culprit. Out of habit, I normally lube the chain right above the rear cog. Now I wonder if some of that lube worked it's way into the swinger drop-out, and that's how the whole slippage started. I will clean the whole assembly with brake cleaner, and report back.
    Just a quick question here, maybe I missed it. Have you checked the 2 tension screws that put pressure on the adjuster bolts? 1 small set screw on each side. Clean and locktite these, then set to the proper depth to give you the "click" when turning the adjuster bolts.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chronos View Post
    Update:

    before last night's ride, I added a dab of blue 242 loctite on the two adjustment screws, and the drop-outs did not move during the ride (which involved a few burly 15% pitches).

    As I was lubing the chain in the parking lot, it occurred to me, that that might be the culprit. Out of habit, I normally lube the chain right above the rear cog. Now I wonder if some of that lube worked it's way into the swinger drop-out, and that's how the whole slippage started. I will clean the whole assembly with brake cleaner, and report back.
    I have encountered the same issue (problem) and i have been riding a Les SS for 2 years now with the ver 1 dropout assembly.

    I just always thought it was chain wear and never really measured anything. i am always having to tighten the tension screws after about 2-3 rides as well.

  20. #20
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    I'm over 200 lbs riding weight. Been through carbon paste ,lock tite and all. What worked for me is getting all grease off all metal everywhere on drop outs. Wash and clean everything. After I did that, no issues. I don't feel their system is perfect though and there are more bombproof set ups out there. Can't find a better riding frame though!

  21. #21
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    keep everything clean and wiped down. I noticed the some of the internal parts (oval plate) in the dropper can wear down and strip after a while. You can get a replacement pair from Pivot which should keep you going for a long time

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