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Thread: pwned

  1. #1
    Ovaries on the Outside
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    pwned

    On the interwebs I posted about the 10 speed mountain cassettes being totally unnecessary because you only need one cog. Some guy flamed me and not only told me I'd be faster with gears, but if I wanted to actually be fast, I'd have to get gears.

    People are so mean on the interwebs and I can't take him for a ride to show him otherwise.

    I'm sad.

  2. #2
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    :wq

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    ummmm.... I don't see the point. You like SS, he likes gears. So what? Do you really feel a need to convince everyone of your point of view? Do you have some sort of holier-than-thou superiority complex that tells you that you are right and everyone else who disagrees needs to be 'corrected'?

    I like SS too, by the way. I don't care how fast I am. I ride my bike and have fun doing it. Pass a gearie on a climb? Sure. Does that make me superior or more correct by virtue of my equipment? No.

    Are you a racer? Do you race SS in the open class? If so, and you win, then you and lots of other people already know you are fast. If not, then just go ride... while you're at it, accept the fact that unless you can spin at 500rpm, a geared bike will have a higher top speed than your SS.

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    Nice job. That worked out well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunset1123
    ummmm.... I don't see the point. You like SS, he likes gears. So what? Do you really feel a need to convince everyone of your point of view? Do you have some sort of holier-than-thou superiority complex that tells you that you are right and everyone else who disagrees needs to be 'corrected'?

    I like SS too, by the way. I don't care how fast I am. I ride my bike and have fun doing it. Pass a gearie on a climb? Sure. Does that make me superior or more correct by virtue of my equipment? No.

    Are you a racer? Do you race SS in the open class? If so, and you win, then you and lots of other people already know you are fast. If not, then just go ride... while you're at it, accept the fact that unless you can spin at 500rpm, a geared bike will have a higher top speed than your SS.
    Try again, but with more brevity.

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    Brevity is the soul of wit... but it makes such poor troll food.

  8. #8
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    aw come on guys dont let this part of the forums become what The free ride DH or VRC forum has become. I couldn't bare my favorite forum to die like this.
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  9. #9
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    I think one of my posts was yanked.

    In any case, I wasn't trying to slam sunset1123, nor to I fully disagree with anything he said, I was having a laugh at getting flamed.

  10. #10
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    well, you can go faster w/ gears...that's a fact
    so...what's your point?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    well, you can go faster w/ gears...that's a fact
    so...what's your point?
    Hypothetically, I entirely agree. Personal experience says otherwise. The 4-17mph I need to do on singletrack is easily accomplished spinning, and faster than that on the downhills doesn't require pedaling anyway. The only difference I've found riding with similarly conditioned/skilled riders on gears is that at the bases of hills I have to give whoever I'm following more space, as I carry more momentum. On road rides the difference between my SS and peoplels gears is more pronounced. That being said:

    Quote Originally Posted by sunset1123
    I don't see the point. You like SS, he likes gears. So what? Do you really feel a need to convince everyone of your point of view? Do you have some sort of holier-than-thou superiority complex that tells you that you are right and everyone else who disagrees needs to be 'corrected'?
    I didn't correct the guy that flamed me, I just said I prefer SS over 10 speed cassettes. I don't care if someone prefers gears, but I do know that this whole rant was based off assumptions.

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    No assumptions. You said you didn't have the opportunity to correct him - "show him otherwise" - and this disappointed you - "I'm sad". I realize my wording was a little harsh, but your post definitely showed some need to push your point-of-view that SS was faster.

    In the end, I'm still going to disagree with you. There are fast riders and not-as-fast riders. Some riders are downright slow-a$$. But not one bike with any kind of gearing goes very far without one.

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    you say "require" pedaling downhill... being faster requires pedalling faster...
    dunno about you, but when I'm making tracks I pedal down hills as well as up.
    if you want to try to argue that spinning a 32x16 really fast is going to make you faster than spinning a 44x11 really fast then you've got another thing coming.
    how could your personal experience say that having twice the gear inches can't make you quicker when the terrain calls for it?!

    I'm not arguing the whole ride top to bottom, there are certainly people and trails where the speed you achieve on one section of the trail on the SS more than makes up for the lack of speed on the rest of the trail.
    I'm arguing that with a plethora of goofy gears you can find a perfect ratio everywhere.

    Still generally a waste of time to have so many gears, and I only have loadsa gears on the full squish myself... but you can't argue that proper gearing for every occassion is an easy way to achieve speed everywhere.
    (oh yeah, my full squish is also my "travel bike", recently built, and I don't remember exactly how long the trails up to Tlaya are, so I'm erring on the safe side there)
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunset1123
    Brevity is the soul of wit... but it makes such poor troll food.
    INTERPRETER: More intensity.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    There's nothing wrong with somebody being a fan of gears.

    But, seriously. Is there really a ****ing purpose to a 10 speed cassette over a 9 or even 8? I fail to see the point beyond the 7/8 barrier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roasted
    There's nothing wrong with somebody being a fan of gears.

    But, seriously. Is there really a ****ing purpose to a 10 speed cassette over a 9 or even 8? I fail to see the point beyond the 7/8 barrier.
    agreed 100%
    9-spds are already ridiculous...now 10s??!
    c'mon
    gimmie a fukkin break
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  17. #17
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    Something I've found having both geared and ss is...

    With one gear, my leg strength is higher, but my lung capacity is lower. I can crank up a hill in a surprisingly high gear, but I lose my breath quicker if I'm spinning too fast. With gears, I can spin faster and longer. However also tend to reach muscle failure quicker if I choose the ss ratio or closer uphill. A combo of both and I choose a higher gear on the geared bike than I probably would if I hadn't been riding the ss in a while.
    Ron

  18. #18
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    If I had carbon-belt drive, I'd be so much faster than all of youse uncouth loosers still running chains!
    Trailwrecker at large

  19. #19
    Duckin' Fonuts.
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    Who needs a bike? I run. It's more naturaler.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roasted
    There's nothing wrong with somebody being a fan of gears.

    But, seriously. Is there really a ****ing purpose to a 10 speed cassette over a 9 or even 8? I fail to see the point beyond the 7/8 barrier.
    beyond 3 is too far
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  21. #21
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    Maybe the answer lay in a Sturmey-Archer three speed equipped All-Mountain Bike!
    Ron

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    I won't lie. There have been times where I've been on a trail and thought, man, if only I had that lower gear right now...

    That's around the time I'll hear my geared buddy with the grinding of mis-shifting and the WAP WAP WAP as he bunny hops a obstacle.

    Insta-smile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roasted
    That's around the time I'll hear my geared buddy with the grinding of mis-shifting and the WAP WAP WAP as he bunny hops a obstacle.

    Insta-smile.
    Having just recently started riding fixed off-road, I don't know yet, but I wonder if experienced fixers get the insta-smile when they hear cheap freehubs skipping pawls, or the lopsided swarm of bees from an out-of-round freewheel, possibly followed by the horrible sounds of chain-launch and swearing...

    This is the second morning in a row that I've come up behind hikers (not too close, mind you) and they jumped about a mile at my "on your left". "You're so quiet! I didn't even hear you."

    Yeah... stealth bike.

  24. #24
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    Yesterday, on my SS cross bike, I passed a guy on a Madone. His look of disbelief made for a man hug.

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    ^ ^ ^

    Just goes to show that a $7,000 bike does not make for a fast rider. We've got the high-dollar spandeXC crew up here from time to time out 'training' on some of the easier trails... They seem kind of reluctant to let me pass sometimes, as if I couldn't possibly be outpacing them. Yesterday I got a really confused look from one of these riders when they caught up to me back at the TH "what do you mean it doesn't coast? Did your freehub seize up?" hahahaha...

    t's been said before, and I'll say it again: It's not the bike.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roasted
    There's nothing wrong with somebody being a fan of gears.

    But, seriously. Is there really a ****ing purpose to a 10 speed cassette over a 9 or even 8? I fail to see the point beyond the 7/8 barrier.
    The XX cassette was designed to be run with the XX crankset, which is a double. The 10-spd cassette gives the double ring crank the same gear ratios as a 3x9. I'm laughing at all these guys dying to throw a 36t on their geared bike to get up the hills on their trails
    :wq

  27. #27
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    Thank God! all trails are flat! Everybody who knows anything about bikes and racing, knows races are won on hills and corners.. not the flats. But then again, I think racing is ghey.
    Last edited by mo0se; 08-12-2009 at 02:30 PM.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunset1123
    No assumptions. You said you didn't have the opportunity to correct him - "show him otherwise" - and this disappointed you - "I'm sad". I realize my wording was a little harsh, but your post definitely showed some need to push your point-of-view that SS was faster.
    Arg. "Pwned" is not in my usual vocabulary and I typically call the internet exactly that and not interwebs. All I'm saying is that I'm not faster on the trails I've been riding with gears or with one and I wanted to ride with the guy for that reason.

    If I had enough money for two bikes I would certainly have squish in the front and gears on one, so I could try tackling 50+ mile rides. I needed them when I did the CO. Trail a while back. I don't need them for the 15-20 mile, 3k trips I typically do.

  29. #29
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    this algorithm, along with the ability to speak Huttese is pwned

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    well, you can go faster w/ gears...that's a fact
    so...what's your point?
    Hmmm. This is coming from a guy who disc golfs and is uber proud of his new double boinger; Sette! Sette! Sette!
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  31. #31
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    lol no one seems to know what the subject is
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie Portman
    INTERPRETER: More intensity.
    Haha! I recently saw that movie. Hilarious!

  33. #33
    550
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    If geared guys are faster how do the single speed guys win races?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 550
    If geared guys are faster how do the single speed guys win races?
    Okay, fair enough... question: If you and five friends arrange a race with Lance Armstrong, and he rides a SS, who do you think will win? Okay, now give him some gears, and all of you run SS. Now who do you think will win?

    My money is on Lance for both events, and like I said, it has nothing to do with the bike.

  36. #36
    550
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    Oh I agree. But all the people who say you can't go fast with out gears are mistaken. :-/

  37. #37
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    I'm way faster without gears because I can't be lazy.

  38. #38
    550
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    Man I hear you. Specially on trail riding. I'm running 32/20 right now and finally did something technical yesterday and got a nice reminder that I need to work harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 550
    Man I hear you. Specially on trail riding. I'm running 32/20 right now and finally did something technical yesterday and got a nice reminder that I need to work harder.
    32/20 on 26 or 29? 32/20 was one of the first gears I ran on my 26", and I found it to occupy a really unpleasant no-mans-land between being low enough to do really technical work, and high enough to preserve some momentum. In other words, not really able to do either well at all.

  40. #40
    550
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    Bianchi SOK 29er. I just got a 18tooth for it which will make it nicer on road I guess. On road this thing is "spinny" haha

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    I had to pedal my Steamer, not Cleveland, into the big city yesterday to swing by my fave not-quite-LBS, & decided to swing by Washington Park afterward for a few laps in order to take in the sights before heading back outta Dodge.

    While entering the loop, I noticed some carbon-ated lycra-clad roadies unloading their imported sub-12# wheelers off their BMW roof rack. A little later, I got passed by them on the flat!!

    Should I be worried?
    Last edited by lubes17319; 08-13-2009 at 01:48 PM.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    Hmmm. This is coming from a guy who disc golfs and is uber proud of his new double boinger; Sette! Sette! Sette!
    uhh... wow
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  43. #43
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    99% of riders will be faster on a geared bike over any given course. The other guy was right. an XX drivetrain adds about 400g to a singlespeed setup. This weight is more than made up for in better climbing, better speed on fast descents and better acceleration out of corners. I like single speed riding, but I am faster on a geared bike.

    If single speed is faster, why isn't anyone winning national series races on an SS bike? single speed has many advantages, but speed is not one of them.

  44. #44
    550
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    I don't watch the "national series" but I know races are being won on single speed bikes, so what gives? How does that happen? Does the SS rider slash the tires of the geared bikes as he passes them?

    Me personally yeah I'm faster on a geared bike I won't argue that, and I won't argue that most people are faster on geared. But SS bikes can and do win races.... I just wonder how.

  45. #45
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    'national series' is what we call it here. i guess most places have an equivalent. either way, the races won by riders on a single speed would probably be won by greater margin on a geared bike, or are among the very small number of races in which gears offer comparatively less advantage.

    name a world cup rider on a single speed.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    the races won by riders on a single speed would probably be won by greater margin on a geared bike
    So you are saying that racers on single speed bikes that win a race would have done better on a geared bike?

    Or ...?



    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    name a world cup rider on a single speed.
    I dont even care to google "world cup rider + Single speed". You are missing my point, I was using the word races in general terms.

  47. #47
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    only local, or at the best, regional races are won by singlespeeders. when the real racing begins, shock horror, you need to be strong and have go fast bits on a bike this means gears and suspension, lightweight parts, and for most riders, 26 inch wheels.

    a retarded child could figure out that a geared bike is faster. no one should be getting offended or defensive, single speeding is still fun, you can still ride fast but as far as racing, anyone who wants to be any good, for the most part, will be riding a geared bike.

  48. #48
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    I'm not offended, or even defensive. If I was I would have used google ;-)

    We'll agree to disagree. Because my avid geared friends even admit that single speeders are winning. Even if they are professional, it doesn't matter.

  49. #49
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    man, some people's logic skills...
    sad
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  50. #50
    550
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    Quote Originally Posted by 550
    I won't argue that most people are faster on geared.
    ...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    99% of riders will be faster on a geared bike over any given course. The other guy was right. an XX drivetrain adds about 400g to a singlespeed setup. This weight is more than made up for in better climbing, better speed on fast descents and better acceleration out of corners. I like single speed riding, but I am faster on a geared
    bike.
    If single speed is faster, why isn't anyone winning national series races on an SS bike? single speed has many advantages, but speed is not one of them.
    I doesn't take a genius or even a "retarded" person to figure out that pro racers are on the top of their game. But most riders are not. Most single speeders tend to be more committed to riding than geared. The reason is simple, almost all single speeders were once geared riders and they turned to singlespeed to add another dimension to their riding; you have to do a lot of riding before it gets that boring. Next, singlespeed riding makes you work harder and subsequently gets you in better shape. This usually results in being a stronger/faster rider even if one goes back to geared riding; that is not to say they would now be faster on a geared bike than a singlespeed, but their times on a geared biek would be better, after spending some time on a single speed. Again, this is not the case with pros, who are already in "better shape" and don't really benefit from riding singlespeed. Saying that, it is well known and I think remarkable, how fast singlespeeders really are. A check if ride times in races like the Sea Otter, shows singlespeed times are just as fast or better than the same class geared riders (you can't compare similar ages because the Singlespeed class has no age categories). It's kind of like the conversation between two people running from a bear. The first said, this is crazy, we can't outrun a bear. The second said, I don't need to be faster than the bear, I only need to be faster than you..
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  52. #52
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    ok basic laws of physics says more effective gear range will make a bike move more efficiently. maybe those ss are winning against people whom dont know when to shift?

    face it : fast in corners/tech spots + fast in the straights = faster then a SS
    and any weight difference can be made up by training. so extra or minus grams arent that relevant.
    but hey ride what you want and have fun.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    Some guy flamed me .


    Maybe he's a "Flamer", literally





    .
    .




    .

  54. #54
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    Haha! That must be it, any geared rider that is slower that an SS rider must not know how to shift. Can't have anything to do with being less fit.

    "Basic" physics that you're talking about is ONLY mechanical advantage provided by gearing. There are too many other variables involved to make a simple statement like that. Geared bikes have a serpentine chainpath and diagonal chainline making them less efficient. Full suspension makes a bike a less efficient climber.

    Saying a geared bike is faster in corners/tech spots is entirely baseless. In my experience geared riders shift way too low and spin like a madman on switchbacks and technical stuff. This usually makes them slower.

    The course has a lot to do with it as well. Many (but not all) geared riders tend to downshift and climb slower than the SS the steeper it gets. They make up time on flats with mechanical advantage and on downhills with suspension. On a fairly flat course the geared rider may very well win with the big front ring.

    The final piece of the puzzle is the rider. Fitness is huge no matter what bike you're on. At the beginner and into intermediate level the SS riders are almost always stronger because they have to be. No granny, no big cog in back.

    At some level (sport/expert/pro) the rider may be very fit and using the gears as a tool instead of a crutch. IMO This is when can start making arguments about the bike being the deciding factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by nogod
    ok basic laws of physics says more effective gear range will make a bike move more efficiently. maybe those ss are winning against people whom dont know when to shift?

    face it : fast in corners/tech spots + fast in the straights = faster then a SS
    and any weight difference can be made up by training. so extra or minus grams arent that relevant.
    but hey ride what you want and have fun.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    Haha! That must be it, any geared rider that is slower that an SS rider must not know how to shift. Can't have anything to do with being less fit.

    "Basic" physics that you're talking about is ONLY mechanical advantage provided by gearing. There are too many other variables involved to make a simple statement like that. Geared bikes have a serpentine chainpath and diagonal chainline making them less efficient. Full suspension makes a bike a less efficient climber.

    Saying a geared bike is faster in corners/tech spots is entirely baseless. In my experience geared riders shift way too low and spin like a madman on switchbacks and technical stuff. This usually makes them slower.

    The course has a lot to do with it as well. Many (but not all) geared riders tend to downshift and climb slower than the SS the steeper it gets. They make up time on flats with mechanical advantage and on downhills with suspension. On a fairly flat course the geared rider may very well win with the big front ring.

    The final piece of the puzzle is the rider. Fitness is huge no matter what bike you're on. At the beginner and into intermediate level the SS riders are almost always stronger because they have to be. No granny, no big cog in back.

    At some level (sport/expert/pro) the rider may be very fit and using the gears as a tool instead of a crutch. IMO This is when can start making arguments about the bike being the deciding factor.
    This guy speaks the truth. Gears have an advantage only on non-technical flats and descents. This is mountain biking, so ideally we have plenty of technical stuff and SS riders do tend to cruise through that stuff at a more brisk pace, not to mention flying past the gearies on the climbs.

    I participated in a group ride (an mtbr group ride) last year of about 25 or so peeps, with approximately 8-10 of us being SSers. Guess which group was always up front? The SSers of course! From rally point to rally point, whenever we took off, it was the SSers who would take off first...one by one, until the gearies started to go. This was not by design, it was just the way things worked out over the course of the ~25 mile ride.

  56. #56
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    Bikes go faster when the rider rides them faster. Period.

    Us SSers have a different attitude and style or riding than is typical; we like attacking, brute force and suffering. I've seen the occasional geared rider with this same attitude and they will climb as fast as me in a similar gear to my SS and then speed away on the flats.
    Last edited by boomn; 08-15-2009 at 03:49 PM.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker
    Haha! That must be it, any geared rider that is slower that an SS rider must not know how to shift. Can't have anything to do with being less fit.

    "Basic" physics that you're talking about is ONLY mechanical advantage provided by gearing. There are too many other variables involved to make a simple statement like that. Geared bikes have a serpentine chainpath and diagonal chainline making them less efficient. Full suspension makes a bike a less efficient climber.

    Saying a geared bike is faster in corners/tech spots is entirely baseless. In my experience geared riders shift way too low and spin like a madman on switchbacks and technical stuff. This usually makes them slower.

    The course has a lot to do with it as well. Many (but not all) geared riders tend to downshift and climb slower than the SS the steeper it gets. They make up time on flats with mechanical advantage and on downhills with suspension. On a fairly flat course the geared rider may very well win with the big front ring.

    The final piece of the puzzle is the rider. Fitness is huge no matter what bike you're on. At the beginner and into intermediate level the SS riders are almost always stronger because they have to be. No granny, no big cog in back.

    At some level (sport/expert/pro) the rider may be very fit and using the gears as a tool instead of a crutch. IMO This is when can start making arguments about the bike being the deciding factor.
    lol wow calm down. i wasnt saying an inexperienced rider on a geared was faster then a experienced SS rider.im talking about a experienced SS rider on a geared.

    my point is if you have a bike with the gears needed for that coarse. im not talking about some main stream production bike made in china. im talking about a bike with gears that are actually needed. which means fewer then 5 gears. a serpentine chainpath does not affect efficiency if properly done. chainline does if that chainline is extreme, but since thats not the case then its not a problem. or use a Truvativ HammerSchmit where there is no chainline problem at all.

    the 'proper' gear is not a crutch lmao. its not rocket science.

    for the record i did not say geared bikes were faster cornering or in tech spots. i said they were faster in flats or places where you can go real fast.

    and as far as FS being harder to climb with? yes some are but some aren't. there are many threads in this forum that argue that, so just dont state that as fact.

    a racer always looks for an advantage over other racers. more gear ratios are an advantage. if the rider can use them properly. let me say again if 'you' race a SS bike and your complete 'clone' races a 2 geared bike (assuming your clone knows when and when not to shift) your clone will win.

    but with that said SS rule!
    Quote Originally Posted by a stoned guy with a beer in his hand eyeballing your sisters bike
    "i fit my bike to fit me;not for looks...nice did you buy that bike from jc whitney?" Stoner Island 1984

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