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  1. #1
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    ... and if we just ... Padre, Do Not Look!!!

    Prototyping
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Prototyping
    Why don't you just get a machine shop to build a custom stem with the rise&reach for the drop bars. Or are you planning to have multiple sets of side-plates so you can adjust it?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon
    Why don't you just get a machine shop to build a custom stem with the rise&reach for the drop bars. Or are you planning to have multiple sets of side-plates so you can adjust it?
    The side plates will have multiple holes for adjustability. Not sure where the bars need to be so there is no way I would have a custom stem made that may not be right.
    What I am working on will be plenty strong.
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  4. #4
    Mashers Only!!
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    I'm speechless!! ummm WOW!!!

    HUGH


    Oh yea whats up Shiggy!!

  5. #5
    the cool nerd
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    shuttles

    hmmmm...an all shuttle and downhill bike....

  6. #6
    Where's Toto?
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    Shiggy

    How about a pic of the mystery stem? Is that to be permanent or ???

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure26
    Shiggy

    How about a pic of the mystery stem? Is that to be permanent or ???
    The stem side plates pictured are for sizing only. I can not even put weight on it. I will be fabricating new plates from aluminum once I (mostly) finalize the size/shape.
    This is the stem the plates are attached to:
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  8. #8
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    Looking forward to seeing the finished product. Keep in mind that by adding the plates (increasing the length of the lever) you are increasing the stress on the clamp and bolts that attach to the fork. Hopefully it's all beefy enough to handle the added stress.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure26
    Looking forward to seeing the finished product. Keep in mind that by adding the plates (increasing the length of the lever) you are increasing the stress on the clamp and bolts that attach to the fork. Hopefully it's all beefy enough to handle the added stress.
    I am also shortening the lever again by using dropbars. I will spend more than 80% of the time in the drops.
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  10. #10
    Recovering Weight Weenie
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Prototyping
    My eyes!!! My eyes!!!

    Are you planning on running your bars that high above the HT?

    iiiiiiinteresting....

  11. #11
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    Not to drag this post off topic.....

    But I couldn't help but notice some strange device hanging from the junction of the chainstays and seatstays. That and an oddly conical shaped thing attached to the rear hub. My feeble mind cannot fathom what these strange parts would be used for!

    As for the drop bars, I have to ask why? And then attempt to answer for myself. Out of total ignorance.

    With the drop bars, you can set the bar higher for more confident descending yet still have a nice stretched out position for climbing and fast rolling terrain. Am I anywhere close?
    "There are those who would say there's something pathological about the need to ride, and they're probably on to something. I'd wager though that most of the society-approved compulsions leave deeper scars in the psyche than a need to go and ride a bicycle on a mountain." Cam McRea

  12. #12
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenspokes
    ...As for the drop bars, I have to ask why? And then attempt to answer for myself. Out of total ignorance.

    With the drop bars, you can set the bar higher for more confident descending yet still have a nice stretched out position for climbing and fast rolling terrain. Am I anywhere close?
    Do a search please. Been discussed many times. I need to do a personal dropbar FAQ.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Do a search please. Been discussed many times. I need to do a personal dropbar FAQ.
    I think you do.
    You have to admit it, though, it is one of the oddest set-ups around.
    I can't see how it would work for serious DH...but if you can make it happen..more power to you...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    My eyes!!! My eyes!!!

    Are you planning on running your bars that high above the HT?

    iiiiiiinteresting....
    I TOLD you not to look!

    I think the bars are a bit too high as set in the pic. That is why I am doing the protos before I start cutting the aluminum. As is the drops are about in the same place as the grips of the stock risers.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I think you do.
    You have to admit it, though, it is one of the oddest set-ups around.
    I can't see how it would work for serious DH...but if you can make it happen..more power to you...
    After 18 years of drops off road I can not use straight bars for more than 10-15 mins. at a time, up or down hill. Much worse on the downs.
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  16. #16
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    Shiggy,

    Without beating a dead horse here, cause I have a great deal of respect for your cycling knowledge and experience (from everything I've read here), I have to wonder if you'd be even WILLING to try a more standard bar/stem combo in this particular application. Is there a physical issue with using a standard flat/riser bar and stem combo that'd prevent you from going with a more typical setup here? I've certainly been guilty of some odd cockpit setups, but I'd have to say this is the strangest, most intriguing setup I've seen on a bike intended for a freeride'ish application.

    Like I said, much respect for your obvious talent and passion for cycling, but I'm just curious if you're not simply going with the drop/sti combo because that's what you're used to, as opposed to what is probably best/most logical/easiest for the given application. Is there a tinge of retro-grouchism coming into play here?

    My apologies if you've grown weary of explaining yourself. No disrespect intended.

    Sean

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    After 18 years of drops off road I can not use straight bars for more than 10-15 mins. at a time, up or down hill. Much worse on the downs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shizzle
    Shiggy,

    Without beating a dead horse here, cause I have a great deal of respect for your cycling knowledge and experience (from everything I've read here), I have to wonder if you'd be even WILLING to try a more standard bar/stem combo in this particular application. Is there a physical issue with using a standard flat/riser bar and stem combo that'd prevent you from going with a more typical setup here? I've certainly been guilty of some odd cockpit setups, but I'd have to say this is the strangest, most intriguing setup I've seen on a bike intended for a freeride'ish application.

    Like I said, much respect for your obvious talent and passion for cycling, but I'm just curious if you're not simply going with the drop/sti combo because that's what you're used to, as opposed to what is probably best/most logical/easiest for the given application. Is there a tinge of retro-grouchism coming into play here?

    My apologies if you've grown weary of explaining yourself. No disrespect intended.

    Sean
    I have. There was a Kona demo day at Willamette Pass last fall. I did at least a half dozen DH runs on a Stab, Stinky and Coiler. All stock. That is where I decided I wanted a Coiler.

    Did another 2-3 runs on my MC in "DH" trim (DH tires, shorter, higher stem, short seat post). Used my Mallets on all of them.

    My upper body suffered on the Konas. My legs suffered on the MC. Everything suffered on the Stab. Just hanging onto the straight bars was difficult and I was less able to maneuver on the bike. Dropbars have a much more secure grip that requires less effort.

    Part of it is because it is what I am use to. But the reason I started using drops in the first place is I found that they worked better for me.
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  18. #18
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    The best bike is one that fits and is comfortable. The better the fit the greater the comfort. The greater the comfort, the more likely you are to ride it. If you're more comfy on drops - ride on!

    I ride my cross bikes like a mountain bike quite often. Drop bars are great for riding trails. I don't have discs on the cx bike (canti's), and don't use runkel levers, therefore the braking is a little sketchy at times - but otherwise they work great.

    I'm wondering if you have tried the H-bars? All the hand positions are on the same level, however, they appear to put your hands in much the same position/angle as drops.

  19. #19
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    Wild!

    All hail the innovative, fearless and creative mind!

    Which dirt drops do you have in there right now? (can you tell by now that i am seriously leaning toward a bar change in the near future?!)
    Spinning and Grinning...

  20. #20
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    Woooh! that stem is even steeper than mine, but of cause you're just trying out the fit for the moment.

    For a man born and breed on drop bars, no point in feeling uncomfortable just to look 'normal' amongst other big travel boingers.
    Plus it'll be great for tight singletrack where wide DH bars may clip stuff.

  21. #21
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    Looking good . Have you considered a Ritchey adjustable stem? It already is sized to fit drops and has a considerable range of adjustments. Plus it's really light for what it is - about 220g. If it's good enough for TR...
    Last edited by ssmike; 08-19-2006 at 07:39 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Do a search please. Been discussed many times. I need to do a personal dropbar FAQ.
    Here's some links to drop bar discussions:
    dirt drops questions
    and one where Padre was going to throw drops on his Bullit. Well, maybe he was being sarcastic. Attention Dirt Drop Users: help me!

  23. #23
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    Not long/high enough Mike. My bars are 25.4.
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  24. #24
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    Thanks for the links, Mike. I will use them to help make my FAQ.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Not long/high enough Mike. My bars are 25.4.
    Shims are available. Not optimal but they work.

  26. #26
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    I would think the rearward sweep angle of the WTB bars isn't that much different than a typical 8 degree sweep flat/riser bar, this is while your hands are in the brake grabbing position. Of course the WTB bars would have downward sweep as well as opposed to upward sweep. I hesitate to call the WTB bars "drops" as they are more like "outs" due to the extreme flaring.

    Shiggy, I can see where the stem issue is going to be tough. With that fork and the resulting 66? degree head angle, I would consider that a pure DH setup. My personal preference for that bike would be a shorter Z1 FR or Fox 36. Your setup begs for a LD type of stem, I was trying to get the vintage forum to cough up some ideas for someone who could still produce them. Any ideas?

    Time to move this to the drop bar discussion.

  27. #27
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    Yes, I have tried HBars. Better than straight bars. Not as good as drops. I need the "hook" of the drops and the HBars have too much flare for me (custom bar would fix the later).
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Not long/high enough Mike. My bars are 25.4.
    I'm not sure what lenght your prototype is but here's a stock stem from Look that's pretty whacky...
    http://www.lookcycle.com/v2/anglais/...l_frameset.htm (Click Products-Accessories-Adjustable Stem)
    ... then you'll see the Ergostem HSC, designed for track and TT use so prolly not suitable for your Coiler, that's where you custom stem comes into play.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by airwreck
    I would think the rearward sweep angle of the WTB bars isn't that much different than a typical 8 degree sweep flat/riser bar, this is while your hands are in the brake grabbing position. Of course the WTB bars would have downward sweep as well as opposed to upward sweep. I hesitate to call the WTB bars "drops" as they are more like "outs" due to the extreme flaring.

    Shiggy, I can see where the stem issue is going to be tough. With that fork and the resulting 66? degree head angle, I would consider that a pure DH setup. My personal preference for that bike would be a shorter Z1 FR or Fox 36. Your setup begs for a LD type of stem, I was trying to get the vintage forum to cough up some ideas for someone who could still produce them. Any ideas?

    Time to move this to the drop bar discussion.
    They are MUCH different than a 8-degree sweep straight bar. The WTB/On-One drops have about a 65-degree sweep. Puts your wrists/elbows/shoulders in a VERY different position. My grip (at the thumb/index finger) ends up in about the same place as a straight bar.

    The WTB/O-O bars are drops because the grips are below the stem clamp and have the looped forward reach.

    My stem is basically a LD stem on concept but easier to make. I have already shortened the plates by about an inch. I have an LD on my Steve Potts tandem.
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  30. #30
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    Unless they've improved substaintially, I'd steer clear of the Look and adjustable stems. I tried one on my road bike and could never get it tightened enough that I could torque on the bars. I'd hate to try it off road.

    If the plates don't work out, you might want to go to Sycip, Hunter, or Salsa and have them weld up a custom steel stem once you get the position figured out.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Prototyping
    version 4 of the side plates (and the earlier version)
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure26
    Unless they've improved substaintially, I'd steer clear of the Look and adjustable stems. I tried one on my road bike and could never get it tightened enough that I could torque on the bars. I'd hate to try it off road.

    If the plates don't work out, you might want to go to Sycip, Hunter, or Salsa and have them weld up a custom steel stem once you get the position figured out.
    The Ritchey stem is one that I would use in an off-road condition. Tom uses it off-road, so would I. Everything else is either too road specific or too comfort-bike specific.

  33. #33
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    Single Speed?

    Will you run this as a SS?

  34. #34
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    nope [nm]
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  35. #35
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    Idea! Adjustable Stem

    Hey Shiggy.

    Many years ago when I had a custom frame built, I also wanted a custom stem to really get my fit just right. I tried messing around with a few different stock stems, but found it hard to compare things on the trail. I found a local shop that had one of these:



    Here's the link.

    It took a long time to really get it right, but it was nice to be able to make changes on the trail, ride some, then make more changes.

    Hope that helps a little.

    Peter
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  36. #36
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    Thanks, OM. I know that stem and know an ex-shop owner that has one. I do not think I am going to need it. With what I have now I can adjust the reach through an ~8" range in around 5 mm steps and rise about 2" (more with a couple more holes).
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  37. #37
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    Shiggy's got a new bike under those bars!!!

    Two heck with the handlebars, I can't wait to see what you do for some color on the bike.....Have fun with it.
    A bike by any other name is still a bike.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigwheel
    Two heck with the handlebars, I can't wait to see what you do for some color on the bike.....Have fun with it.
    I am headed to the sign shop tomorrow
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  39. #39
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    New question here. With all due respect, I don't understand...

    ...why you didn't just leave the steerer uncut, and use that for the majority of your rise. Is there something I'm overlooking here?

    ECB

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by >>ECB<<
    ...why you didn't just leave the steerer uncut, and use that for the majority of your rise. Is there something I'm overlooking here?

    ECB
    shiggy didn't buy the fork aftermarket. He bought the complete bike. The steerer was cut at the factory.

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  41. #41
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    The steerer is uncut, by me at least.
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