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  1. #1
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    OT: Percussion/Drum Question

    As most of you regulars know, my musical aptitude is based on the noises my symphonic body generates. My SO's sons do have some musical ability. The oldest plays guitar and the youngest is a fan of the cello and drums. (cello for the school band and drums in the basement).

    The youngest has a b-day coming up and I'm looking for advice on drums. He currently has a low end department store drumset. I'm looking to begin upgrading components. The fact is, I know nothing about instruments and don't know the best way to proceed.

    - Upgrade one piece at a time?
    - Which pieces first?
    - Where to buy? Music store? Pawn shop?
    - What is a good "starter" brand of drums?
    - Are there any questions or anything I need to know that I'm not asking about?
    - Where do babies come from?

    Thanks,

    Ken

  2. #2
    34N 118W
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    SS content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC

    - Upgrade one piece at a time?
    - Which pieces first?
    - Where to buy? Music store? Pawn shop?
    - What is a good "starter" brand of drums?
    - Are there any questions or anything I need to know that I'm not asking about?
    - Where do babies come from?

    Thanks,

    Ken
    singlespeeding is about purity, not banging on drum kits. I know you're new to the forums, but that's how we roll over here. Maybe ask Pete on the Passion boards. As for your last Q - here in L.A. they come from dumpsters.

  3. #3
    I like to ride bikes!
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    WWW.samash.com

    The sky is th e limit, kinda like bikes. One thing, in the world of cymbals you really get what ya pay for.

    I kinda agree with HW, this one does not belong here, but its cool that you think so highly of our opinions.

  4. #4
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    Here's half the peace sign for you....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood
    singlespeeding is about purity, not banging on drum kits. I know you're new to the forums, but that's how we roll over here. Maybe ask Pete on the Passion boards. As for your last Q - here in L.A. they come from dumpsters.
    Riiiight. Purity. Got it. Thanks for the 411 on the babies.

    It's nice to know that you're all about the purity, though.

    Ken

  5. #5
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    Thanks, I guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by scoutdog
    WWW.samash.com

    The sky is th e limit, kinda like bikes. One thing, in the world of cymbals you really get what ya pay for.

    I kinda agree with HW, this one does not belong here, but its cool that you think so highly of our opinions.
    It seems like you've just sent me to a Nashbar for music. Given that I don't know a damn thing about instruments, this helps me about as much as a new mountain biker being referred to the Performance website when they ask about mountain bikes.

    It belongs here as much as any of the other music related questions. OT means "Off Topic" and if you don't want to read it, try to refrain from clicking your mouse next time.

    Ken

  6. #6
    34N 118W
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    paging Mick Shrimpton

    have you tried Finch Platte? Isn't he a drumma?

  7. #7
    try driving your car less
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    have you tried posting to golfreview.com?

    get the kid a singlespeed and a fake ID!
    Only boring people get bored.

  8. #8
    Medium?
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    Re: OT

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    OT means "Off Topic" and if you don't want to read it, try to refrain from clicking your mouse next time.

    Ken
    I couldn't resist seeing you get skewered for posting OT on this board. OT is ok for general or passion.

  9. #9
    Bryn Mawr Borracho
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    C U Next Tuesday!

    I thought "OT" meant overtime, which is what it would take to slake my thirst on Bloody Marys from the Newsroom. Which we rode our single speeds to. During the first Kansas City Summit. Like 3 years ago. And I'm still hung over. You don't want to get into a purity drum circle with these guys, Ken. But make sure the drums you purchase have an EBB. And I'm pretty sure you'll get more 'bottom' if you use disk brakes. And ti fasteners. Oh, and don't forget the carbon fibre drumsticks; they're lighter. You know, for your wrists...Now where did I put my "high hat?"
    carsrcoffins.com

  10. #10
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    Gotcha...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    I couldn't resist seeing you get skewered for posting OT on this board. OT is ok for general or passion.
    I'll be sure to point this out when we next discuss beer, music in our iPods, type of instrument we all play or any of the other various OT posts that we discuss here.

    I posted here based solely on the "instrument we all play post" that took place a couple of weeks ago. I didn't realize that it's OK to brag about our musical talents so long as we all keep that musical wisdom to ourselves. Maybe we're all more like Club than I would have thought.

    Got it. No OT posts on the SS board.

    Ken

  11. #11
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    I don't know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood
    have you tried Finch Platte? Isn't he a drumma?
    Don't know. I'll drop him a page or an email.

    Thanks,

    Ken

    P.S. You realize when I gave you half the peace sign, I meant your index finger to indicate that I think you're #1, right?

  12. #12
    \|/ What 60 looks like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    As most of you regulars know, my musical aptitude is based on the noises my symphonic body generates. My SO's sons do have some musical ability. The oldest plays guitar and the youngest is a fan of the cello and drums. (cello for the school band and drums in the basement).

    The youngest has a b-day coming up and I'm looking for advice on drums. He currently has a low end department store drumset. I'm looking to begin upgrading components. The fact is, I know nothing about instruments and don't know the best way to proceed.

    - Upgrade one piece at a time?
    - Which pieces first?
    - Where to buy? Music store? Pawn shop?
    - What is a good "starter" brand of drums?
    - Are there any questions or anything I need to know that I'm not asking about?
    - Where do babies come from?

    Thanks,

    Ken

    Dude, you will find that drums are very much like bicycles in that they range from department store POS to custom made for Major Money. My advice would be to buy him a name brand, chrome shell snare drum and a heavy duty drum stand from a music store that specializes in drums. That way the snare will go with whatever finish drumset he winds up with.

    Forty years ago I was schlepping a full set of Ludwigs all over the midwest with a rock band in order to pay for my college. The Ludwig brand is still around and is still well thought of but I'm sure there are others just as good that weren't around then.

    Just go to your LMS.

  13. #13
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    I'll do that....

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryS
    Dude, you will find that drums are very much like bicycles in that they range from department store POS to custom made for Major Money. My advice would be to buy him a name brand, chrome shell snare drum and a heavy duty drum stand from a music store that specializes in drums. That way the snare will go with whatever finish drumset he winds up with.

    Forty years ago I was schlepping a full set of Ludwigs all over the midwest with a rock band in order to pay for my college. The Ludwig brand is still around and is still well thought of but I'm sure there are others just as good that weren't around then.

    Just go to your LMS.
    Any idea how much I should expect to pay for a Specialized Hard Rock chrome shell snare drum w/heavy duty drum stand?

    Thanks for the advice.

    Ken

  14. #14
    \|/ What 60 looks like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    Any idea how much I should expect to pay for a Specialized Hard Rock chrome shell snare drum w/heavy duty drum stand?
    Probably less than a Ludwig Thumpjumper SS.

    Actually Ken I've been out of the music business so long that I wouldn't have any idea what things sell for now. Sorry.

  15. #15
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    How about something like this http://www.tama.com/drums/kits.asp?k=swg

    Sam Ash has some sets on sale, check it out http://www.samash.com/search/search.asp

    Also found this site http://www.drums-and-drum-sets.com/ with very interesting info about drums.
    Last edited by DiRt DeViL; 01-04-2005 at 03:44 PM.

  16. #16
    34N 118W
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    bird

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    P.S. You realize when I gave you half the peace sign, I meant your index finger to indicate that I think you're #1, right?
    first I thought you were flipping me off, then I thought "no, Ken wouldn't do me like that". Then I realized it was the index finger, as in "1 speed", which is what we should be discussing here, not drums.

    [/sarcastic smart-ass comments]

    bang on,
    J

  17. #17
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    are the "no OT in SS board" posts a joke?

    how old is the youngest? does he utilize the whole setup? er, what kind of setup is he on now...like, how many pieces? it'd be best to go try talk to a music store and ask them. of course, you're probably gonna spend more than you thought, but that's like everything else in life. Ludwig, Yamaha, Pearl...they all make descent beginner sets.

    personally, i'd buy him a 13" Yamaha SFZ, some drum corps dvds, the Blue Devils percussion practice book, and a Zymox practice pad. but that's just me and my drum corps dreams.

    (just make sure he is familiar with traditional grip...it looks so much cooler than matched)

  18. #18
    Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!
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    Sorry if I'm offending the SS'ers here by replying to your question, but you don't seem to be getting much help.

    I have been out of the music scene for about 15 years now, so I'm sure some things are different today, but when I was still playing....

    The brands- Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, Ludwig, Slingerland.....probably a lot of others I'm forgetting. They all make good drums, and you probably wouldn't go wrong with any of them.

    Just like bikes, most drum manufacturers have lines at different price points from beginner to professional. It would be hard to tell you to just upgrade one piece of a drum kit (excluding the snare) since the mounting hardware of the drums need to fit together in a system. (each manufacturer has their own style of clamping hardware.)

    For cymbals, Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste were the main players I remember. Again, they're all good, and all offered something in the different price points.

    It's not the law, but generally speaking, you stick to one company's product, as they each tend to have their own distinctive sound and you want to have a kind of harmony among them.

    I know you wanted to do a piece by piece upgrade, but it's so difficult to recommend one part over another without knowing the drums he has now.....how they sound, what music he likes to play, if anything is worn out in his kit, etc. etc.

    Where to buy- I'd suggest that you don't overlook private sales when looking for drums. There are often some good deals to be had out there. There was no such thing as Ebay when I was in the game, so I relied on local classified ads to find what I was after.

    You want to be able to see and hear what you're buying. Look at all the hardware and mechanisms in the kit. Make sure there are no stripped threads on any of the fasteners. We're talking about all the stands, pedals, clamps, etc. Make sure everything works.

    Inspect the cymbals. Look at all of them to see if there are any cracks. If you hit one, it shouldn't have any weird buzzing sound to it.

    Drum heads (skins) can be replaced, but they're not cheap. Make sure they're in decent condition, not totally puckered with stick hits.

    Individual stands can be replaced too, but again, they're pretty expensive. In the case of drum stands, they are specific to the brand of drums you own....keep that in mind.

    I'm probably out to lunch on pricing, since A) I've been away from it so long, and B) I'm living in Canada. However, I would think you could find him a small kit( about 5 drums, a hi-hat, a couple of cymbals and hardware) for $600-1000, depending on the brand, price point, quality, etc.

    Sorry this is long, but I hope you find something here that will help you.

    Good luck!

    Mike

  19. #19
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    Thank you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pucker Factor
    Sorry if I'm offending the SS'ers here by replying to your question, but you don't seem to be getting much help.

    I have been out of the music scene for about 15 years now, so I'm sure some things are different today, but when I was still playing....

    The brands- Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, Ludwig, Slingerland.....probably a lot of others I'm forgetting. They all make good drums, and you probably wouldn't go wrong with any of them.

    Just like bikes, most drum manufacturers have lines at different price points from beginner to professional. It would be hard to tell you to just upgrade one piece of a drum kit (excluding the snare) since the mounting hardware of the drums need to fit together in a system. (each manufacturer has their own style of clamping hardware.)

    For cymbals, Zildjian, Sabian, and Paiste were the main players I remember. Again, they're all good, and all offered something in the different price points.

    It's not the law, but generally speaking, you stick to one company's product, as they each tend to have their own distinctive sound and you want to have a kind of harmony among them.

    I know you wanted to do a piece by piece upgrade, but it's so difficult to recommend one part over another without knowing the drums he has now.....how they sound, what music he likes to play, if anything is worn out in his kit, etc. etc.

    Where to buy- I'd suggest that you don't overlook private sales when looking for drums. There are often some good deals to be had out there. There was no such thing as Ebay when I was in the game, so I relied on local classified ads to find what I was after.

    You want to be able to see and hear what you're buying. Look at all the hardware and mechanisms in the kit. Make sure there are no stripped threads on any of the fasteners. We're talking about all the stands, pedals, clamps, etc. Make sure everything works.

    Inspect the cymbals. Look at all of them to see if there are any cracks. If you hit one, it shouldn't have any weird buzzing sound to it.

    Drum heads (skins) can be replaced, but they're not cheap. Make sure they're in decent condition, not totally puckered with stick hits.

    Individual stands can be replaced too, but again, they're pretty expensive. In the case of drum stands, they are specific to the brand of drums you own....keep that in mind.

    I'm probably out to lunch on pricing, since A) I've been away from it so long, and B) I'm living in Canada. However, I would think you could find him a small kit( about 5 drums, a hi-hat, a couple of cymbals and hardware) for $600-1000, depending on the brand, price point, quality, etc.

    Sorry this is long, but I hope you find something here that will help you.

    Good luck!

    Mike
    Exactly the advice I was looking for. His current drum set is like a Sears/JC Penny's, in other words, a Pacific full suspension. In my ignorant opinion, he seems to have talent but we don't have a ton of cash to purchase an entire set. Your advice makes sense and I will try to pick a brand based on what the LMS carries. I don't feel comfortable purchasing off of ebay because I don't have an f'ing clue what to look for. If I were in my shoes asking about bikes, I would send the poster to the LBS. So it seems to me that I should head to the LMS and start asking questions based on what you've provided above.

    $600-$1000 is more than I'm looking to spend. His brother plays the guitar and he plays the drums to his brother's guitar. At this point, that means older 70's guitar lesson songs (AC/DC, Boston, etc.) that they play in the basement.

    Thank you very much for your time and your advice.

    Ken

  20. #20
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    I've always admired your perceptitude....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood
    first I thought you were flipping me off, then I thought "no, Ken wouldn't do me like that". Then I realized it was the index finger, as in "1 speed", which is what we should be discussing here, not drums.

    [/sarcastic smart-ass comments]

    bang on,
    J
    It's like we're long lost twins. I just knew you were going to say that.

    As far as you know, you're exactly right, I wouldn't treat you like that. I'm such a caring and compasionate person, I would never even consider giving anyone the finger. Actually, I'm so innocent that I'm not really sure what "the finger" actually means but I can only assume it's bad.

    Thanks for understanding.

    Ken

  21. #21
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    Thanks...

    Quote Originally Posted by the Inbred
    are the "no OT in SS board" posts a joke?

    how old is the youngest? does he utilize the whole setup? er, what kind of setup is he on now...like, how many pieces? it'd be best to go try talk to a music store and ask them. of course, you're probably gonna spend more than you thought, but that's like everything else in life. Ludwig, Yamaha, Pearl...they all make descent beginner sets.

    personally, i'd buy him a 13" Yamaha SFZ, some drum corps dvds, the Blue Devils percussion practice book, and a Zymox practice pad. but that's just me and my drum corps dreams.

    (just make sure he is familiar with traditional grip...it looks so much cooler than matched)
    Thanks. I'll head to the LMS. As I mentioned below, his set up is JC Penny's. A FS Pacific in bike terms.

    Ken

  22. #22
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    dude,
    It all depends on what kind of music he likes. you mentioned classic rock stuff so he probably doesn't need a 12 piece drum set. stick to the basics. I am not sure how long he has been playing but the most used and heard drums in a song are the snare, high hat, and kick drum. those 3 should get the most attention. he could drill his rudiments on a quality snare alone. most drummers have a signature tone for their snare. I almost envision the snare like a bike frame, get a quality one and everything else will soon follow. symbols are like a drive train, the alivios will sound like tin but xtrs or sram xo stuff is like quality zildjan symbols. since this is a SS forum don't worry about symbols just yet. the kick drum and kick pedal are like a crankset, you want one thats super strong, and works smoothly. and the high hat is like bar and stems, post, grips etc. the high hat carries the time of a song and is constant. I was about to write a super long novel but I think I have ADD so I will just wrap it up with this..... just get a kick ass snare at the limit of your budget. as far as the kind of snare? ask the drummer what kind of sound he's looking for then tell the LMS. they should point you in the right direction. oh yeah, you do get what you pay for.
    Quite possibly the slowest single speeder on earth.
    Now skating 'cause its cheaper.

  23. #23
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    are you able to contact a local high school or college band director/ drum instructor? they might be able to help you, as well (as far as finding a good, used set).

  24. #24
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    The youngest has a b-day coming up and I'm looking for advice on drums. He currently has a low end department store drumset. I'm looking to begin upgrading components. The fact is, I know nothing about instruments and don't know the best way to proceed.

    - Upgrade one piece at a time?
    - Which pieces first?
    - Where to buy? Music store? Pawn shop?
    - What is a good "starter" brand of drums?
    - Are there any questions or anything I need to know that I'm not asking about?
    - Where do babies come from?

    Thanks,

    Ken
    Hey Ken, I'll try and help out as much as I can. Feel free to PM me as some folk really get pissed/offended/confused with OT postings.

    Drums are not like bikes, and this whole upgrade piece by piece is expensive and raises a number of complications along the line and I guarantee you the recipient will not appreciate having to slowly upgrade drums, hardware and cymbals piece by piece.

    Spend a good bit of money. Not an exorbedint amount but at the same time not a tiny amount.

    You want to be looking at going to a music store rather than the pawn store who knows sh!t all about musical equipment.

    Take a look at Pearl drums and specifically look at either the Export or Session series of kits. You're son will be more than happy with either. If you have the money to blow a Masters Custom or Masterworks will make him super happy (Think you getting a Phil Wood Piss Off or alike).

    As for cymbals, it may be better not to surprise your son, and perhaps let him inform you on what he'd like. The genre of music he plays will influence the specification of the cymbals (Thin for jazz for example, or big medium to heavy stuff for metal or rock or alike). Take a look at either Zildjian or Sabian cymbals. Both companies have starter packs with the rudimentary basics such as a Crash a Ride and a set of hats.

    Check the following links. These are the sort of things you'll want to be buying IMHO. I strongly suggest you go to a store where the sales clerks are educated and can answer your questions honestly and frankly.

    For cymbals: An example of a perfect starter set. I started on something very similar when I got into drums. It was a great starting point: http://www.zildjian.com/EN-US/produc...productID=1561

    For Drums: The Pearl export series represents IMHO the benchmark of good quality drums at a good price. Pearl make some of the best drums in the world and in bike terms, a Pearl export is like a good Giant bike. Reliable, good spec and a great spot to start: http://www.pearldrum.com/export.asp

    In summary: You want to buy a 5 piece drum kit (2 toms, floor tom, kick and snare) and a basic cymbal starter kit (Crash, ride, hi hats) and as for hardware (Hi hat stand + 2 cymbal stands) this should come with a basic Export kit.

    As I say, don't hesitate to contact me via PM or alike if you need more help.
    Trev!

  25. #25
    Trail rider and racer
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    Oh I forgot to say: Try spend $1000 if you can. Cover all his needs. A good starting point kit and cymbals a few drum sticks etc...

    FWIW: I play a Pearl Master Custom, Zildjian K Custom and A Custom Cymbals etc etc and my kits value would be around the $8K+/- US mark. My first kit was an Export with a Sabian Cymbal kit. It was an awesome starting point and was great to learn on. I eventually moved up the ranks, once I knew I liked drums and was focusing on a certain genre of music etc.
    Trev!

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