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  1. #101
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    Spot's web page is back with some new very cool bikes!
    My Spot is now 5 months old and I like it better & better.
    Zero problems with belts, dropouts! Never a skip or miss track.
    Schwalbe Marathon Duremes a perfect for my dirt & urban riding.

    Spot's "Sprawl" next on my list!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Cheswick
    If you don't mind me asking. How much for a Blacksheep frame like that?
    That is one spanking bike and I would ride it silly, I might add.
    My BlackSheep Frame is very similar to this one and it cost me about $4000AU with a Uni Crown Ti Fork.

    I dont recommend using a 39-24T Gates combo on this frame unless your trails are pretty tame gradient wise. My belt jumped teeth so bad I removed it in favour of a chain but Im very happy with it now. The Belt got so bad after 4 months that it started jumping (Klacking) when climbing seated in wet weather. Be sure to get James to fit some Tensioner screws behind the grub screws on the HACS system, it will allow for far simpler adjustments with Belt or Chain and avoid any unwanted slippages.

    I loved the Belt and think its a swell idea but my frame is not rigid enough for proper function. With a chain however, this frame rocks and I wouldnt swap it for anything.
    "Be the Gear..."

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Muz R-
    ...I dont recommend using a 39-24T Gates combo on this frame unless your trails are pretty tame gradient wise. My belt jumped teeth so bad I removed it in favour of a chain but Im very happy with it now...
    One possibility is that the front pulley is too small. The European distributor is refusing to supply 39T pulleys because they reputedly cause problems. Maybe if you could get the same ratio with the next size up (46T) the problem may be avoided.

    It's frustrating not being able to get a 39T to test it. Spot in USA want $75 for the shipping to Europe of a really lightweight part, so it's simply not worth getting one from the USA.

    Edit: I have just been informed the correct amount is $15 which is ok.
    Last edited by Velobike; 07-29-2010 at 04:34 PM.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  4. #104
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    I had the same issues with the 39t and once i switched to a 46t I have never had a problem with the belt popping


    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    One possibility is that the front pulley is too small. The European distributor is refusing to supply 39T pulleys because they reputedly cause problems. Maybe if you could get the same ratio with the next size up (46T) the problem may be avoided.

    It's frustrating not being able to get a 39T to test it. Spot in USA want $75 for the shipping to Europe for a lightweight part, so it's simply not worth getting one from the USA.

  5. #105
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    Ive been ridding 39/24 for 3 months now with no skipping problems after innitial set up. Steep hills ( Colorado Rocky Mountains) and wet weather are fine. The biggest problem I had was getting the 39 to fit my crankset. I had to file a little bit off two of the spider arms.

  6. #106
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    I have the same noises that you do coming from the rear hub of my Industry 9 SS hubs. Alignment is good - I've measured the centerline of the belt to be 50.0mm from both front and rear pulleys.

    Noise goes away under hard pedaling - about 50% effort and higher. Also noises when spinning the cranks backwards. No noise from the hub bearings themselves when the wheel is removed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgYLNaqgaGM
    What did you end up doing to fix it?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeezaGeeza
    After following the tips from a few people here and some advice from Sherwood at Ventana (who responded within hours - great CS), I think I have the alignment sorted. The Set Square method from crank to rear cog worked well and I now have about 5mm from the edge of the freewheel hub to the cog.

    The ONLY thing still persisting is a load creaking noise from the bike as I rotate the cranks. It happens most under light pedaling. The more pressure I put on the cranks the less noise there is.

    The belt drifts in about 1 - 1.5mm under heavy load as well, but still seems to be flush with the inner edge of the sprocket so I'm not too concerned.

    Anyone have any ideas about the creaking - will it disappear?
    Ibis Ripley with Pike
    Spot Ti Singlespeed
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    bunch of track bikes for Boulder Valley Velodrome

  7. #107
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    Is you lock ring tight

    I found that my lockring and crank bolts were not tight enough. This resolved 95% of the noise. I still get a bit back pedaling and a bit when I really put power down but it's no big deal.

    Your alignment looks good overall so it shouldn't be that.

  8. #108
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    Minimtbiker

    Is the belt rubbing up against the flange of the cog? That would make it pop. If so you'll need to respace the rear cog in a bit. Plenty of spacers available for the rear.

    Tim

  9. #109
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    Neat pic of a simple snubber from CDrive belt systems. Very similar to what I built for myself.



    http://www.cycledrive.com
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by MINImtnbiker
    I have the same noises that you do coming from the rear hub of my Industry 9 SS hubs. Alignment is good - I've measured the centerline of the belt to be 50.0mm from both front and rear pulleys.
    As others have said, make sure your lockring and chainring bolts are tight. My belt made the same noise when the lockring was simply "snug", not tight. If that doesn't work, it's probably an issue of too much tension on the freehub body. Not sure what you could do at that point other than moving the cog as close to the hub as possible. Of course, that depends on your front chainring and if you have room to move that inboard a little as well.

    I didn't have that luxury. The clearance between the chainstay and chainring was so piss poor on my Spot, I had to run 2 1/2 spacers on the drive-side BB cup. Total design fail on the part of the guys in Golden. Add to that too much BB flex and the need to baby my belt, I moved back to chains. Here is my initial review and my third follow-up.

    CDS was just not worth the hassle, IMHO....YMMV. In order to get a frame stiff enough to work properly with CDS, the ride quality would have to suffer.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench177
    ...In order to get a frame stiff enough to work properly with CDS, the ride quality would have to suffer.
    No, you simply need a properly designed frame. There's more to a frame than chainstays. Flexing chainstays are no big problem when you have a derailleur to keep everything together, but a good single speed should keep its chainring and rear cog aligned.

    The last place there should be lateral flex is in the chainstays. Even with a chain, it is an advantage to have stiff chainstays for good power delivery.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    No, you simply need a properly designed frame.
    I agree. I guess I am just jaded because I have a bike made by the company that adopted belt drives from the beginning. If anyone should have all the kinks worked out, it should be Spot. Unfortunately, that is not the case with my frame. It was built less than a year ago and has Paragon (not the Kobe) sliders. So, it's not one of their 1st generation frames. The sliders work great, however, there are several other issues that seem like rookie frame builder mistakes. First, clearance on the drive-side chainstay is ridiculous. They sold me a 39x24 ring/cog set. The 39t chainring is mounted in the big ring position on XT cranks and with two BB spacers on the drive-side cup, there was less than .5mm of clearance. Too close for comfort, so, I added a half size BB spacer to the drive side. This gave me the clearance I needed, but, left precious few BB threads screwed into the drive side. I eventually striped the threads on my Enduro BB on the drive side. This is with a 39t chainring! I couldn't even dream about running anything larger. Total design fail.


    Then, there is the frame flex at the BB. There is just too much flex and the belt drive cannot handle it. I had the Spot Brand flange you asked about and to be honest, I think it makes the problem worse. Now, the belt has two flanges to ride up when torqued to the side. This probably wouldn't be an issue with a stiffer frame and/or chainstays, but, it is a problem with my frame.

    So yes, I agree that a properly designed frame should work well with a CDS. I wish I had one. I've spent a fair amount of coin on this stuff and currently it's hanging on a wall in my garage.

    Frame design aside, I am still skeptical about belt drives on mountain bikes. When you read the literature Gates supplies, the warnings are ridiculous. "Do not twist or crimp", "do not roll it onto the cogs", do not look at it cross-eyed. I have to wonder what happened when a stick got sucked into the belt/cog or when laid it down on a rock or dragged it over a log across the trail. These are all "real world" situations while mountain biking. The other thing that is alarming is once you start to ratchet the belt, you have essentially compromised the carbon in the belt. The problem will only get worse and no amount of tension will eliminate the situation. Time to buy a new belt...at $50-$70 bucks a pop. Neither one of my belts lasted more than 2 months before they needed to be replaced.

    Your On One conversion is great. Really nice job there. I have always maintained that a belt drive is probably better suited for road and commuter applications. I'm glad to hear the SA hub can handle the pre-load tension the belt requires. That is one aspect I thought would kill a hub. I have to assume the larger cog and chainring combo has made the difference between our experiences with the belt drive.

    I would like to hear from other people with belt drives on mountain bikes. What bike do you have and has the belt worked for you? I really want to like the system and would love to find a bike where it works. OldMountain appears to have a new Spot, but, it looks like that bike is setup for urban use. I need to find a bike that can handle technical rock crawling and hill climbs.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench177
    ...Your On One conversion is great. Really nice job there. I have always maintained that a belt drive is probably better suited for road and commuter applications. I'm glad to hear the SA hub can handle the pre-load tension the belt requires. That is one aspect I thought would kill a hub...
    Thanks. I'm running it with no more tension than I use with a chain so the hub and BB bearing are safe. I'm very fussy about getting the alignment spot on.

    One possible factor is that I bolt up the hub bolts very firmly (S-A nuts are strong) and this may help with the lateral stiffness of the frame.

    My mtb conversion though uses QRs and has no issues either - it's an alloy frame - and again I run it with similar to chain tension.

    All the belt drive issues were known years ago before Gates came on the scene, so I'm surprised at how many of the same mistakes are being repeated.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  14. #114
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    hi guys!

    may I know the price of the Gates carbon belt drive set (39x24t @113teeth)?

    thanks in advance.

  15. #115
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    ... and if we just ... Single speed Truvative crank modification for a Gates belt drive

    I've posted a link to my Fb page showing some modifications done to a Truvative X-Forge single-speed crank-chainring assembly.

    I did this work on my old Burley Runabout. I wanted to maintain as much of the original components as I could. I did worry about the sprocket clearance. In the end I had my frame dimpled though it was not necessary (and the dimple was made in the wrong place but anyway...).

    I had my LBS put the thing together. Beware, they put the rear cog on backwards on the Afline 11-speed. It might happen to you too. That really made the belt drift until I noticed that they flipped cog. Once they flipped it back all was well.

    The bike originally had a Truvative 110mm BB which I changed to a Phil Wood 113mm. Probably a mistake as the adjustment required really shifted the crank over. Fixable but not a priority at the moment as the assembly works well. The belt slipped only once and that was when the rear cog was flipped. I had about 5mm of belt-cog contact at that time.

    This bike uses an eccentric with a 50T 104mm and a 118T belt.

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=6d2b64fdbe

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