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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimT
    Been there, done that already

    I've got a couple of Duomatics and tried one with the belt which is why I'm planning to try the S3X now.

    For what it's worth the Duomatic has too much slop for my liking - be ok on a commuter I suppose. The S2C may be different, Sturmey are pulling out all the stops to revive the hub gear market and I'm experimenting with a few of their other products too (eg drum brakes).
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  2. #27
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    Velobike
    You think the slop is because of the kick back shifting? Is there a way to tighten it up?
    I want SA to come out with a 32 hole dirt worthy disc compatable 8 speed. Even a 5 speed would be nice

    Tim

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimT
    ...You think the slop is because of the kick back shifting? Is there a way to tighten it up?
    I want SA to come out with a 32 hole dirt worthy disc compatable 8 speed. Even a 5 speed would be nice...
    I didn't investigate the slop, it seemed on a par with other coaster hubs. I don't think it can be adjusted because it's probably to do with the clearances on the engagement dogs.

    I reckon once you past 3 speeds hub gears get too heavy. If you want 8 speed go for an Alfine, not S-A.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  4. #29
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    This is interesting.

    My first reaction to all these Belt Frames as I said is this: How can the 3 piece bolt together Dropout/seatstay/chainstay be durable and stiff at all?

    Is a big Clyde rider over tough terrain a mechanical waiting to happen??

    Can we say that Belt Drives on Mtn Bikes are for gentle rolling terrain?

    Not a dig just a though
    Why are there so many threads about cheap ass bikes?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike Turner
    ...My first reaction to all these Belt Frames as I said is this: How can the 3 piece bolt together Dropout/seatstay/chainstay be durable and stiff at all?...
    That's my thoughts too. One bolt is all that's needed if it's in the right place. Then it's like a pin joint and is perfectly strong, and that's how I prefer to do it.

    There's no question about the strength of the belt.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916

    Ventanna's new El Toro is belt compatible but if I remember correctly there are only a few different ratios available. A[/COLOR]
    You should be able to get any hardtail Ventana with their new swinging dropout to allow for a range of ratios.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by afie
    You should be able to get any hardtail Ventana with their new swinging dropout to allow for a range of ratios.

    A mate of mine is the Australian Importer for Ventana and will have one of the new Ventana SS Belt frames on Monday next week or soon after. According to Sherwood of Ventana the frame was made specifically for 46-28 and due to the CS length doesnt offer many ratios close to this. He wanted a 39-24 or 39-25 and it isnt possible until a specific length belt becomes available early next year. To memory its a 115T belt that will solve the problem.
    "Be the Gear..."

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Muz R-
    ...He wanted a 39-24 or 39-25 and it isnt possible until a specific length belt becomes available early next year...
    Belt length availability is the biggest hassle with belt drive just now.

    Most SS frames are designed around old chain technology and have about 1" of usable adjustment which is perfect when you can remove links. Unfortunately you are stuck with the length of the belt, and the next size can be 3-5 teeth difference when all you want is 1 tooth difference to fit within the chainstay length.

    Nicolai belt drive ready frames show the advantages of clean sheet design
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike Turner
    My first reaction to all these Belt Frames as I said is this: How can the 3 piece bolt together Dropout/seatstay/chainstay be durable and stiff at all?

    Is a big Clyde rider over tough terrain a mechanical waiting to happen??

    Can we say that Belt Drives on Mtn Bikes are for gentle rolling terrain?

    Not a dig just a though
    Ventana's Design is VERY stout, I'm a 230# clyde and I cannot tell the difference between the split slider dropout and my one piece rear tri on my SS. Currently in 3x9 configuration, but purposely had Sherwood design it to fit the Belt drive system If I wanted to later on.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1255459095
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  10. #35
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    Calling anyone running a belt drive set up......

    Having big problems getting alignment right on my bike and would welcome any help as it's the first time I've use a belt set up. Before I go on, here is the info I assume you need:

    Frame: Ventana El Comandante
    Rear Hub: Hope Pro 2 freewheel, 135mm
    Cranks: Middleburn RS7
    Belt Drive: Gates Carbon Drive
    BB Shell: 68mm
    BB: SKF BXC 600 - 113mm axle

    So, no matter what I do I cannot get the belt to stay centered, apart from once but then it developed an odd creaking sound on rotation at certain regular points. I have the belt tensioner so I know it's not that. I've followed the instructions but just can't get it to work. Seems fine when I tension the belt, but as soon as center the rear wheel it drifts left or right.

    I've also tried a Truvativ crank with external BB but the same happens. Took it to a store today and we tried moving the BB spacer over from the drive to non drive side to bring the crank closer. This got it to about 5mm from the frame, but still the belt wandered. I've flipped the rear

    The only time I got it silent the rear cog was on the last couple of mm of the freewheel cassette and I wasn't comfortable it will hold up under torque.

    Does anyone have any secret hints and tips I can't find elsewhere. Does the belt have a direction?

    I'm off to bed now as it's 11pm here in Australia, but with any luck I'll have a flurry of solutions when I wake in the morning

    Have attached a few images to help explain too. First is the rear hub engagement the only time I had it running silent. Second is the chainline. Third is distance from crank to frame, fourth is the rear wheel installed showing gap between cog and slider dropout and lastly the tension gauge.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Official Belt Drive Q&A Thread-img_0243.jpg  

    Official Belt Drive Q&A Thread-img_0251.jpg  

    Official Belt Drive Q&A Thread-img_0264.jpg  

    Official Belt Drive Q&A Thread-img_0254.jpg  

    Official Belt Drive Q&A Thread-img_0257.jpg  


  11. #36
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    I've found on mine that the main reason for the belt to wonder is it's too loose. I've also noticed no matter how perfect I think I have the belt set up while the bike is in the stand it always takes a few more tweeks out on the trail before it's running perfect. Once I have it set there, it's good to go until the next time I have to change a flat or something. The creaking noise will go away after a few miles. The reason for it is nothing is perfectly round. So you will have the tension set just right at one point in the rotation and then it will be tighter at another point. I would error on the side of too tight and put a few miles on it to see if the creaking will go away. Mine did.
    You have a great set up there with the Ventana. You shouldn't have any problems with that sucker. You might try to get the new outer flange for the rear cog that they are making now.
    Hang in there. Once you get the belt dialed in, there is nothing like it.

  12. #37
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    Check that your rear axle alignment is parallel to the BB.

    Is the front ring on the inside or outside of the crank spider?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    Check that your rear axle alignment is parallel to the BB.

    Is the front ring on the inside or outside of the crank spider?
    Alignment is accurate
    with BB. Did think about moving the crank on the inside of the spider rather than the outside.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeezaGeeza
    Having big problems getting alignment right on my bike and would welcome any help as it's the first time I've use a belt set up. Before I go on, here is the info I assume you need:

    Frame: Ventana El Comandante
    Rear Hub: Hope Pro 2 freewheel, 135mm
    Cranks: Middleburn RS7
    Belt Drive: Gates Carbon Drive
    BB Shell: 68mm
    BB: SKF BXC 600 - 113mm axle

    So, no matter what I do I cannot get the belt to stay centered, apart from once but then it developed an odd creaking sound on rotation at certain regular points. I have the belt tensioner so I know it's not that. I've followed the instructions but just can't get it to work. Seems fine when I tension the belt, but as soon as center the rear wheel it drifts left or right.

    I've also tried a Truvativ crank with external BB but the same happens. Took it to a store today and we tried moving the BB spacer over from the drive to non drive side to bring the crank closer. This got it to about 5mm from the frame, but still the belt wandered. I've flipped the rear

    The only time I got it silent the rear cog was on the last couple of mm of the freewheel cassette and I wasn't comfortable it will hold up under torque.

    Does anyone have any secret hints and tips I can't find elsewhere. Does the belt have a direction?

    I'm off to bed now as it's 11pm here in Australia, but with any luck I'll have a flurry of solutions when I wake in the morning

    Have attached a few images to help explain too. First is the rear hub engagement the only time I had it running silent. Second is the chainline. Third is distance from crank to frame, fourth is the rear wheel installed showing gap between cog and slider dropout and lastly the tension gauge.

    Ok my fellow Australian

    This is gonna hurt, but........when I got my system I feared the worst regarding alignment as I have no means of fine adjustment but in the end getting the alignment right seemed the easiest part.

    Looking at your pics I would suggest getting the front ring closer to the frame to allow your rear cog better placement on the freehub body. I cant tell from the pics but my mate has this same bike and can only use a 46T ring on the crank. ( the frame is designed for this ring only at this stage ) .

    Heres the two ways I insured correct alignment, one of which is quick and easy so try it first. Get a straight edge like a builders square and place it firmly on the front ring so that it follows the belt to the rear cog. If it is alinged correctly the front ring will be with in 1mm or so of the rear cog. The more complicated method that I used before setup was to take some measurements of your frame. Start off by getting your front ring positioned between 1-2mm from your frame. Then measure the diameter of your seat tube and divide it by 2, then measure between your seat tube and inner face of your front ring. Add these together. Next divide your rear hub spacing ( approx 135mm ) in half, should be 67.5mm and subtract your first measurement from this. The answer you get will be roughly 17-27mm. This measurement will be the distance between your rear dropout and the inner face of your rear cog.

    In summary, if this is a little confusing, your mearly finding the centre of your frame with crank and front ring installed as close as possible to the centre and then transfering its position to the rear for correct cog placement.

    In my case these were my findings :

    Seat tube diameter = 32mm, divided by 2 = 16mm

    Distance between ST and inner front ring = 29mm

    Total = 45mm

    Rear Hub spacing of 135 divided by 2 = 67.5mm minus 45mm = 22.5mm

    You can now simplify by measuring the width of the rear cog and subtracting it from my 22.5 calculation and that would be the gap between the outer rear cog face and the dropout on the drive side.

    After taking these measurements and then fitting it all together, my rear cog sits on the outer edge of the freehub body but I still have a 5mm spacer between the cassette lock nut and cog which is plenty secure enough for big cranking. I checked with a builders square or straight edge before riding and it was within 1mm of accuracy meaning it was ready to ride.

    Of course all frames are going to be slightly out of alignment so its a good idea to only use the measurement method as a guide and then follow by using the straight edge before riding. I have found that with varying belt tension that my belt never wanders as long as its aligned correctly.

    Did you buy the frame from Pete Winfield? if so he would be more that glad to help out as he has the same bike. He did have some derailment issues to begin with but the alignment was out by 3mm or so to memory. Its all good now and it survived the Aust SS Champs in November without a glitch.

    Hope this helps.
    "Be the Gear..."

  15. #40
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    Thanks for the tips. I did pick it up off Pete and he helped spec the parts, plus I know he has one also so I'm confident I will get it working.

    Pete is on holiday at the moment, so I didn't want to bother him but of course I'm keen to ride the belt drive, so thanks for the info. If I can't get it sorted I'm sure Pete will help out when he's back online.

    In the meantime I'll follow your advice and see if I can get it running. The SKF bottom bracket limits the movement of the cranks but I think I can swap the spacer to the non drive side to get 5mm, or move the cranks to the inside of the spider for the same effect.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeezaGeeza
    Thanks for the tips. I did pick it up off Pete and he helped spec the parts, plus I know he has one also so I'm confident I will get it working.

    Pete is on holiday at the moment, so I didn't want to bother him but of course I'm keen to ride the belt drive, so thanks for the info. If I can't get it sorted I'm sure Pete will help out when he's back online.

    In the meantime I'll follow your advice and see if I can get it running. The SKF bottom bracket limits the movement of the cranks but I think I can swap the spacer to the non drive side to get 5mm, or move the cranks to the inside of the spider for the same effect.
    Yeah, Pete is at Mt Beauty at the moment.

    Try a couple of things out, Im sure you will get it working. Pete has his rear cog on backwards and it still works, I also got the Spot flange with my kit and after I was confident with it I took it off. Its never moved since.

    Make sure you have a strong secure skewer to keep your wheel placed perfectly in the same place all the time, you dont want it moving under load. I can remove my wheel out on the trail and put it back in without any alignment issues what so ever.

    My other tip is to get an Automotive Oil Filter Remover from Supercheap Auto or similar for removing the rear cog. It works way better than Gates supplied tool and it wont break like the Gates tool either. Although they only cost $10 to replace I broke Petes genuine tool twice at the Nationals just before race start!

    Good luck
    "Be the Gear..."

  17. #42
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    my cog sits at about the same spot on my I9 freehub, I have a flange disc on order form Gates so I can flip the cog 180. no issues so far but flipping it around will allow better engagement of the splines on the freehub. I do gets some weird squeaking when it is dusty and I just rub my gloves on the sides of the belt and it quiets down, I'm running slightly off-line now but it hasn't caused many problems, I will be getting the flange soon so perfect alignment will be possible. I have about 2mm of chainring clearance so I only have the option to adjust the rear cog.
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916
    my cog sits at about the same spot on my I9 freehub, I have a flange disc on order form Gates so I can flip the cog 180. no issues so far but flipping it around will allow better engagement of the splines on the freehub. I do gets some weird squeaking when it is dusty and I just rub my gloves on the sides of the belt and it quiets down, I'm running slightly off-line now but it hasn't caused many problems, I will be getting the flange soon so perfect alignment will be possible. I have about 2mm of chainring clearance so I only have the option to adjust the rear cog.
    Hey Scooter,

    I like the idea of flipping the rear cog to get better placement on the freehub, I have the flange with my kit so I might play around with that at a later date.

    Im loving the belt so far!

    Have you booked in for the SS Worlds? 400 spots have been taken already, make sure you dont miss out.

    Muz
    "Be the Gear..."

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Muz R-
    Hey Scooter,

    I like the idea of flipping the rear cog to get better placement on the freehub, I have the flange with my kit so I might play around with that at a later date.

    Im loving the belt so far!

    Have you booked in for the SS Worlds? 400 spots have been taken already, make sure you dont miss out.

    Muz

    I signed up for Leadville again this year, if I get in there is no way I can possibly afford both races, I don't find out until the first week of Feb.

    I may be missing worlds this year

    If I find out that I don't make it in to Leadville I may email the guys at SSWCNZ and see if I can get a late entry.

    are you going?
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916
    I signed up for Leadville again this year, if I get in there is no way I can possibly afford both races, I don't find out until the first week of Feb.

    I may be missing worlds this year

    If I find out that I don't make it in to Leadville I may email the guys at SSWCNZ and see if I can get a late entry.

    are you going?
    Leadville SS? Big call

    Yeah Ive just entered 10 minutes ago and the entries are up to 476 already. Should be fun, they are offering free T-shirt and Socks with entry fee of $115NZ.

    They have some of the best trails in the Southern Hemisphere, it would be a shame to miss out...
    "Be the Gear..."

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Muz R-
    Leadville SS? Big call

    Yeah Ive just entered 10 minutes ago and the entries are up to 476 already. Should be fun, they are offering free T-shirt and Socks with entry fee of $115NZ.

    They have some of the best trails in the Southern Hemisphere, it would be a shame to miss out...
    actually Leadville is the only race I do with gears. I went back and raced it in 06 and 08 and both years missed the cutoff, 06 missed the 74 mile cutoff by 10min, and 08 my body shut down on the way up Columbine and I turned back.

    So its $115 NZ any idea what it is in USD??

    If I don't race at Worlds I will just make a vacation with the GF and spend a week or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916
    actually Leadville is the only race I do with gears. I went back and raced it in 06 and 08 and both years missed the cutoff, 06 missed the 74 mile cutoff by 10min, and 08 my body shut down on the way up Columbine and I turned back.

    So its $115 NZ any idea what it is in USD??

    If I don't race at Worlds I will just make a vacation with the GF and spend a week or two.
    Scooter,

    Im glad you use gears for that one, 160km's is a long way with only one.

    $115NZ is $84.30US.

    Definately head over for a vacation, best time to go is March 1st as its the first day of off peak and will save you heaps in accomodation and car hire etc. Its also the driest month of the year and still warm so perfect for riding. Temps are around 23 deg C with little humidity. Check out Taupo, about 50 miles from Rotorua and there are quality trails south at Wellington. Either way you cant go wrong, the bike shops are always willing to help out a tourist. Queenstown in the South Island has been described as a mini Wistler and there are butt loads of other great rides with full description in the Kennett Brothers book titled " Classic New Zealand Mtb Rides ". Get a copy of this Mtb Bible prior to heading over, it will out line everything that NZ has to offer regarding Mtbing.
    "Be the Gear..."

  23. #48
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    is this how all the ventana SS are shipping now and does any one know the prices in US$? The site does doesn't seem to be updated.

    Side shot of the dropout would be cool! thanks

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrederland
    is this how all the ventana SS are shipping now and does any one know the prices in US$? The site does doesn't seem to be updated.

    Side shot of the dropout would be cool! thanks
    I think you have
    the option of sliders or EBB. The slider is great as you have far more flexibility without the potential issues of EBB.

    I have a derailleur hanger on the slider too, so the one frame allows me to run SS chain, belt drive, 1 x 9 or full 27 speed.

  25. #50
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    Update on Belt Drive installation

    After following the tips from a few people here and some advice from Sherwood at Ventana (who responded within hours - great CS), I think I have the alignment sorted. The Set Square method from crank to rear cog worked well and I now have about 5mm from the edge of the freewheel hub to the cog.

    The ONLY thing still persisting is a load creaking noise from the bike as I rotate the cranks. It happens most under light pedaling. The more pressure I put on the cranks the less noise there is.

    The belt drifts in about 1 - 1.5mm under heavy load as well, but still seems to be flush with the inner edge of the sprocket so I'm not too concerned.



    Anyone have any ideas about the creaking - will it disappear?

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