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  1. #1
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    New SOMA 650B single speed?

    With a name like the "B side" it is sure to be a hit!

    http://www.somafab.com/somanews.html
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

  2. #2
    Single Speed
    Reputation: fatad's Avatar
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    Maybe....

    another tire and tube size to keep up with, but might be just the ticket. Maybe make it a 29/650er or a 650/26"er I do like the Soma's, I have a groove, 4one5 and Pake. B-Side might round out the stable.

  3. #3
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    Hm:
    I guess my old Rocky Mountain would make a fine 67.5er ;-)

    But first impression says that Soma sounds and looks good.

  4. #4
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooka
    Hm:
    I guess my old Rocky Mountain would make a fine 67.5er ;-)

    But first impression says that Soma sounds and looks good.

    The Soma ought to be a blast! Word is Origin 8 will be showing one too... And then there is Rawland Cycles, a 650B only company launching the new brand at Interbike in a couple weeks. Those and the 8-9 other 650B MTB's that will be on display in Vegas, promises to make the 650B wheel very popular in the next few years.

    Independent Fabrication isn't showing this year, but they did build a 650B MTB single speed for a guy who raced in the SSWC this past week end. I hope to have a full race report soon. See pic below:

    LOTS MORE 650B INFO HERE:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...tb-tires-11794

    http://cyclingplus.co.uk/newsdetails.asp?id=688

    http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/ind...showtopic=3034

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2007...ults/nahmbs074
    click thumbnail for more pics.

    http://rawlandcycles.com/

    cheers,

    KP
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    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

  5. #5
    bike geek
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    Slightly off topic, but while on the subject of 650b...

    Kirk-

    Any word on how the beads of your Neo Moto tires fit on the 650b Blunt rim? I ask because there are reports on the 29er board of loose-fitting beads and tire blow-offs with the 29er Blunt (not just the Blunt, to be fair). Wondering what the story is with the 650b version.

    Also, do you know what drillings the 650b version of the Blunt is available in?

    Thanks

  6. #6
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamjam
    Kirk-

    Any word on how the beads of your Neo Moto tires fit on the 650b Blunt rim? I ask because there are reports on the 29er board of loose-fitting beads and tire blow-offs with the 29er Blunt (not just the Blunt, to be fair). Wondering what the story is with the 650b version.

    Also, do you know what drillings the 650b version of the Blunt is available in?

    Thanks
    TJ,

    There is no word yet things are still too new to know for certain. In my opinion, the tires fit on the "loose side", [especially compared to some tubeless systems] but certainly acceptable. Fwiw, Panaracer has guaranteed that they won't come off the rim.

    The blunts only come in 32 hole drillings at the moment, but I am sure they could be had in other configurations should demand justify them.


    Cheers,

    KP
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

  7. #7
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Update!

    I just mounted some tires to a set of American Classic 650B MTB wheels that landed here the other day.
    The wheels were built with the 28mm wide Velocity "Blunt" rim and weigh in at 1,750g according to the manufacturer, but I have not weighed them myself yet.

    The fit of the tire to the rim could not be better (perfect?). In fact it is as good as or better than any rim / tire combo that I have ever personally mounted (YRMV). The tire goes on fairly easy and without tools but requires just enough force to give your thumbs a nice work out while seating the bead.

    [SIZE="4"]NOTE:[/SIZE] I put a 26" wheel in the picture for scale. I tried to crop the shot to best show the size difference between the wheel sizes.
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    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 09-08-2007 at 01:02 PM.
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

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  8. #8
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    So the hub is American Classic and the rim is Velocity right? That pic is cool and that's a decent difference in wheelsize. Now I really wanna try one!

  9. #9
    bike geek
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    I just mounted some tires to a set of American Classic 650B MTB wheels that landed here the other day.
    The wheels were built with the 28mm wide Velocity "Blunt" rim and weigh in at 1,750g according to the manufacturer, but I have not weighed them myself yet.

    The fit of the tire to the rim could not be better (perfect?). In fact it is as good as or better than any rim / tire combo that I have ever personally mounted (YRMV). The tire goes on fairly easy and without tools but requires just enough force to give your thumbs a nice work out while seating the bead.
    Great news KP. Now if you could just convince Velocity to do a run of 36h rims, and have them done by the end of Sept, I might just have go with a 650b front wheel on my current (MTB tandem) project instead of 29.... (seriously)

    Brian

  10. #10
    Wandering not Lost
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    beyond possible sizing concerns, or full sus geo problems Why 650B over a 29'er?

    Open minded here ...so not just a naysayer. Currently on a 29'er and love the ride...

    enlighten me:

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BThor
    beyond possible sizing concerns, or full sus geo problems Why 650B over a 29'er?

    Open minded here ...so not just a naysayer. Currently on a 29'er and love the ride...

    enlighten me:
    I agree. Looking for more info. If 29er wheels work so well, why do we want less tire contact patch and less object "angle of attack"?

    I too am not against change, I just want to know why first.

  12. #12
    Stubby-legged
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    Sign me up...

    on the WHY? front.
    With 26ers, 29ers,96ers,69ers....
    Kirk, Davis, and others... why anothr size?

    By the way, Kirk, you left out Davis at Carver bikes out of your list.

  13. #13
    artistic...
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    why 650B?
    Because 29er wheels have some serious limitations to design a bike around. not everybody likes loooong wheelbases. not everybody likes the way a 29er rear wheel behaves.
    not to mention FS which is actually the main reason behind the new format's future domination.
    29er wheels will go the way of the 1 1/4 headset.
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  14. #14
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    Most of this is theoretical at this point, since the tires are so new, but the goal is to get the bigger contact patch and momentum advantages of the 29er wheels with the snappier, shorter wheelbase geometry of the 26 inch wheel frames. Apparently a number of builders have expressed an interest because you can use "standard mtb geometry" with this wheel diameter. And I agree, the big advantage with this wheel will be found in full suspension frames, but the first bike I build using 650B will be a SS!


  15. #15
    Stubby-legged
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    ohhhhh, I see

    Doesn't this dilute and further divide the field?
    How has the tire manufacturers responded to "yet another tire" size?

    I am one who would benefit from bigger wheels and conventional geometry. I slot into the "Not quite tall enough for a 29er." So I ask, not to be the devil's advocate, but to gather more info.

  16. #16
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way
    Doesn't this dilute and further divide the field?
    How has the tire manufacturers responded to "yet another tire" size?

    I am one who would benefit from bigger wheels and conventional geometry. I slot into the "Not quite tall enough for a 29er." So I ask, not to be the devil's advocate, but to gather more info.

    I don't think so, it's just another option. The rim size has been around for nearly a century and is quite common around the world. The only "new" part is the MTB application.

    Tire makers are happy to make whatever you ask for. Panaracer is making my tire now, and I have heard rumor that other brands are considering the size.

    Response from bike makers has been overwhelmingly positive. Custom builders will lead the charge because the are small enough and versitle enough to build just about anything a customer might want. The bigger players will certainly take more time to embrace it, but my feeling is that its a function of their size not lack of interest. I can say there are a few BIG players testing my tires and wheels now.

    More to come after Vegas...
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

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  17. #17
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    Without attempting to give Kirks gameplan away, basically as mentioned earlier 29ers are limiting. They do have some serious design issues/impediments call-them-what-you-will that are generally ignored by people desperate enough to be one of the cool kids or wanting to push their own barrow.

    29ers of course have their place, but the impetus here from Kirk is to bring the advantage of the larger wheel across more platforms to more riders.

    Because of physical design limitations, the 29" wheel can't bring that.

    As for the 'dilute and divide', I don't think that's the case. I've always assertained that wheel size should vary for the size of rider, just as every other part on the bike does, and all another wheel size gives is just more options for riders out there. Not only that, it invigorates the market, so you get discussion, debate, passion, more options, less limitations......all this sounds pretty good to me!

    Kirk is putting his ass on the line bigtime here and I hope it pays off for him.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  18. #18
    artistic...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Without attempting to give Kirks gameplan away, basically as mentioned earlier 29ers are limiting. They do have some serious design issues/impediments call-them-what-you-will that are generally ignored by people desperate enough to be one of the cool kids or wanting to push their own barrow.

    29ers of course have their place, but the impetus here from Kirk is to bring the advantage of the larger wheel across more platforms to more riders.

    Because of physical design limitations, the 29" wheel can't bring that.

    As for the 'dilute and divide', I don't think that's the case. I've always assertained that wheel size should vary for the size of rider, just as every other part on the bike does, and all another wheel size gives is just more options for riders out there. Not only that, it invigorates the market, so you get discussion, debate, passion, more options, less limitations......all this sounds pretty good to me!

    Kirk is putting his ass on the line bigtime here and I hope it pays off for him.
    this is your best post ever..
    want: Ibis ti handlebar. suntour 31.8 front derr. bottom pull

  19. #19
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Without attempting to give Kirks gameplan away, basically as mentioned earlier 29ers are limiting. They do have some serious design issues/impediments call-them-what-you-will that are generally ignored by people desperate enough to be one of the cool kids or wanting to push their own barrow.

    29ers of course have their place, but the impetus here from Kirk is to bring the advantage of the larger wheel across more platforms to more riders.

    Because of physical design limitations, the 29" wheel can't bring that.

    As for the 'dilute and divide', I don't think that's the case. I've always assertained that wheel size should vary for the size of rider, just as every other part on the bike does, and all another wheel size gives is just more options for riders out there. Not only that, it invigorates the market, so you get discussion, debate, passion, more options, less limitations......all this sounds pretty good to me!

    Warwick gets it!

    This is basically the same response I have gotten from all professional Bike Designers I’ve discussed the project with. They all seem to see the advantage of this wheel size right away and with very little discussion or convincing. The key is to think of the bicycle as a whole and how each part impacts another.

    Product managers and end users are far more skeptical. But they don't have the benefit of having built and or designed thousands of bike frames to convince them this is the right platform for most contemporary / future bike designs.

    Fwiw, I also believe all wheel sizes have their place and will continue to exist and even expand. I don't view any one size as "better" than another. Neither do I think wheel size has to be an "either or" choice, but rather "both and"...
    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 09-09-2007 at 07:43 PM.
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  20. #20
    Stubby-legged
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    Ok, I get it

    Thanks for the info. I look forward to more info after Interbike.

  21. #21
    Exclusively Single
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    I like the looks of the 650b's. I've been saying to myself for some time now that something between a 29" and 26" could potentially be the ideal all-around size and I'm glad to see it happening.

    I understand how this size can fix design limitations for shorter riders and FS bikes, but on a rigid SS for an average or taller rider what might be the advantages other than a reduction in rotational weight (e.i. quicker acceleration) and a slightly stronger wheel?

    Kirk, I'm very curious in the differences between 650b vs. 29" in regards to acceleration, maintaining momentum, wheel strength and weight, and smoothness on the trail.

    I'm just about to build a new 29er non-disc wheel set with Surly hubs (high flanges) and Sun CR18 rims with DT Comps, so the result should be a rather strong wheel set with relatively low rotational weight. I'm just trying to better determine how much lighter, quicker and stronger a similarly built 650b wheel set would be whereas the only disadvantages I can foresee would be that the smaller size may not roll as smoothly, climb over obstacles nor maintain momentum as well due to the increased angle of attack (from a 29") though the difference may be negligible.

    What I really want to hear is that I need not concern myself with the matter so I don't have to start planning to buy a new frame, rims and tires.

  22. #22
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by long hazy daze
    I like the looks of the 650b's. I've been saying to myself for some time now that something between a 29" and 26" could potentially be the ideal all-around size and I'm glad to see it happening.

    I understand how this size can fix design limitations for shorter riders and FS bikes, but on a rigid SS for an average or taller rider what might be the advantages other than a reduction in rotational weight (e.i. quicker acceleration) and a slightly stronger wheel?

    Kirk, I'm very curious in the differences between 650b vs. 29" in regards to acceleration, maintaining momentum, wheel strength and weight, and smoothness on the trail.

    I'm just about to build a new 29er non-disc wheel set with Surly hubs (high flanges) and Sun CR18 rims with DT Comps, so the result should be a rather strong wheel set with relatively low rotational weight. I'm just trying to better determine how much lighter, quicker and stronger a similarly built 650b wheel set would be whereas the only disadvantages I can foresee would be that the smaller size may not roll as smoothly, climb over obstacles nor maintain momentum as well due to the increased angle of attack (from a 29") though the difference may be negligible.

    What I really want to hear is that I need not concern myself with the matter so I don't have to start planning to buy a new frame, rims and tires.
    How tall are you?
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  23. #23
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    I'll buy a Lenz 650B Leviathan. Devin?

  24. #24
    Exclusively Single
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    How tall are you?
    6'1" -barefooted.

    And I must say those new tires of yours look particularly sweet!

    Any plans for future production in other sizes?

  25. #25
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by long hazy daze
    6'1" -barefooted.

    And I must say those new tires of yours look particularly sweet!

    Any plans for future production in other sizes?

    You’re a perfect candidate for this wheel size. I am 6-0 and have been riding 29ers for a long time and always felt that a slightly smaller wheel would probably be better.... 29" wheels really start to make sense for riders 6-4 and up [impo].

    Yes, I have more tires planned. The next one should be ready in January and then another in June or July...

    Cheers,

    KP
    “Those that say it can’t be done should get out of the way of those doing it.”

    Pacenti Cycle Design

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