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  1. #1
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    New conversion - wheel slipping

    Hi,

    I have just converted my Rockhopper to singlespeed.

    When I pedal hard the back wheel slips so it rubs in the frame, any idea why or how I can fix this?

    If I lift the skewer on the non-tensioner side it works ok for a bit.

    Mick

  2. #2
    Phobia of petting zoos.
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    Stop pedalling so hard. Simple.

    Okay, that was unhelpful...

    First things first, tell us some more about the setup. Is it the original wheel converted to SS?

    If not, is the wheel the right width, i.e.: the width between the dropouts the same as the distance across the locknuts on the axles? If you're running a 130mm hub on a 135mm frame that could be part of the issue.

    Some skewers offer better bite than others, someone might be able to chime in with something that works based on their experiences.

    Do the skewers up tighter. I don't like that idea personally, I think if you've got to close the skewer with a towel in your hand so you don't ruin your hand then that's too tight.

    Next step would be the replace the axle with a bolt up, and actually, that would be my preferred option. What sort of hub is it? A Shimano (or similar cup'n'cone hub) should be easy but a hub with a proprietary axle and bearing system might be a bit harder to convert.

    Grumps

  3. #3
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    Pics of your setup?

    Usually this is because the drive side tensioner isn't being properly clamped by the QR, allowing the right side axle slip forward so the left side of the rear tire rubs into the frame.

    [EDIT]

    Grumpy beat me to it!

    If your skewer is an external cam type, that's something to be replaced.

    I.e.
    New conversion - wheel slipping-mpart-wheel-quick-release-skewers.jpg

    What you want is a known internal cam skewer, I find that even cheap Shimano skewers are stronger than almost anything out there.

    I.e.
    New conversion - wheel slipping-hu249z07.jpg

    Or, as Grumpy stated, conversion to a bolt-on "nutted" axle is always the best option. I wrecked a couple quick release skewers by consistently over-tightening them, until I was sensible enough to pull by QR axle and swap in a 10x1mm solid axle. This may or may not be possible given your setup, so again, pics are helpful.


  4. #4
    Phobia of petting zoos.
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    Actually, add to that list of options skewers that are bolt up, as in they have a nut on one end and they do up with a hex key, not a quick release lever. Can't say I've had a lot of luck with them though, I've stripped the nutted on some.

    And another random thought, lube your skewer cam, it can help you get some more tension without the skewer feeling like its going to explode.

    If the damn kids shut up I might even post a sensible and comprehensive reply. Hang on, I'm going to threaten a 6 year old with Legocide...

    Grumps

  5. #5
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    Its a new wheel, I will check the size later.

    I have done the QR pretty tight. I will try and sort a photo.

    This is the wheel:

    Halfords | 8-Speed Rear Bike Wheel - 26" Black Rim

    I think the Rockhopper was 9 speed but I guessed the hubs would be the same?

    Im sure when the skewers are both pushed right into the dropouts it works ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Pics of your setup?

    Usually this is because the drive side tensioner isn't being properly clamped by the QR, allowing the right side axle slip forward so the left side of the rear tire rubs into the frame.

  6. #6
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    Oh yes, bolt-on skewers!

    Yes they CAN be more secure, but I wouldn't claim that they offer significantly more compression force than a proper QR. I've used multiple sets just like this:

    New conversion - wheel slipping-2258.jpg

    Like Grumpy, I've shredded one set by over-tightening them constantly; upon the final torquing with a large-handled Park 5mm, the "nut" side exploded off the opposite side of the fork, taking a threaded portion of axle with it. Not pretty. I primarily use them for theft prevention on city bikes, FWIW.

  7. #7
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    Its a struggle to get the chain tensioner on and I wonder if that is lifting that side somehow?

    This is what I used:

    DMR Simple Tension Seeker & Single Speed Kit | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    Its a new wheel, I will check the size later.

    I have done the QR pretty tight. I will try and sort a photo.

    This is the wheel:

    Halfords | 8-Speed Rear Bike Wheel - 26" Black Rim

    I think the Rockhopper was 9 speed but I guessed the hubs would be the same?

    Im sure when the skewers are both pushed right into the dropouts it works ok.
    Yes that skewer is of the less desirable type, but the frame/wheel interface is more than likely to blame here. I'm operating under the assumption that your Rockhopper has vertical dropouts, not forward-facing horizontals that allow for axle movement (and chain tensioning).

    Once you get the chance to do a photo, the problem should reveal itself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    Its a struggle to get the chain tensioner on and I wonder if that is lifting that side somehow?

    This is what I used:

    DMR Simple Tension Seeker & Single Speed Kit | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    I love the DMR STS! It was always very kind to me in the last setup I owned that utilized it, but yes getting everything in and out of the dropout can be a bit finicky.

    I found that removing one bolt from the STS makes everything slide in smoothly. Usually I would pull the M10 bolt that fits in the derailleur hanger; that way, with the bike on the ground, the wheel should easily slip into the dropouts. Then, tighten your QR, reinstall the M10 bolt, adjust the STS position so that your chain tension is spot on, and tighten the two STS bolts all the way.

  10. #10
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    Some pics

    New conversion - wheel slipping-2013-06-17-10.50.44.jpgNew conversion - wheel slipping-2013-06-17-10.50.54.jpgNew conversion - wheel slipping-2013-06-17-10.51.04.jpg

  11. #11
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    I also think that a the moment my chain is too long so I am pushing the tensioner right to its limit.

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    Should the axles be right at the bottom of the dropout (when bike is upside down) or can they be lifted and tightened to stay in place?

    I think the chain tensioner is lifting that side and I need to lift the other side to match?

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    Should there be a dropout "insert" in both sides or just the side where there was a derailleur?

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    Im convinced its the "M10" bolt that fits in the derailleur hanger which is pulling the skewer up on that side. It wont quite go in with the skewer fully in the dropout, I can just get the thread started by angling the bolt.

    I may try filing the tensioner to make the hole bigger, then it should screw straight in.

  15. #15
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    Not sure, but it looks like the tensioner is fouling the QR nut, in that the nut isn't able to seat against the dropout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    I also think that a the moment my chain is too long so I am pushing the tensioner right to its limit.
    If you take a pair of links out, the tensioner arm might pull out of the way of the skewer nut. I can't say for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    Should the axles be right at the bottom of the dropout (when bike is upside down) or can they be lifted and tightened to stay in place?

    I think the chain tensioner is lifting that side and I need to lift the other side to match?
    No, the axles should be fully seated in the dropout, ie: in the bottom when the bike is upside down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    Should there be a dropout "insert" in both sides or just the side where there was a derailleur?
    Huh? What insert? You mean the replaceable derailleur hanger? No, there's no insert on the non-drive side.

    Have you tried fitting the wheel without the tensioner in place, just to see if the wheel sits in the frame nice and straight?

    Grumps

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    Ok, cheers. I will have a play with it on my lunch.

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    Without the tensioner the axle pushes all the way in the dropout on both sides and the wheel does not rub.

    I looked at getting the tensioner pushing up on the chain instead but the chain touches the stays then.

    I guess I should try shortening the chain?

  18. #18
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    New conversion - wheel slipping-imag0927.jpg
    It looks like the skewer just tightens on the plastic insert which comes with the tensioner, is this how it should be?

  19. #19
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    I would start with a better skewer. The one pictured above with a 5mm axle and aluminum end-caps are useless.

    You want one with stainless teeth on the cam head and nut. Second I would consider replacing the likely worn out hub lock nuts with new ones (that have teeth like this)
    ODYSSEY CASSETTE AXLE LOCK NUTS

    Shimano skewers are the best and cheapest in this regard. I like the old-school ones with a steel cam lever and not those with alloy levers:
    Name:  !B8,qhswCWk~$(KGrHqMOKkMEzJ3QHtSlBM3!TzWep!~~0_35.JPG
Views: 270
Size:  5.7 KB

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG0927.jpg 
Views:	80 
Size:	67.0 KB 
ID:	808788
    It looks like the skewer just tightens on the plastic insert which comes with the tensioner, is this how it should be?
    That insert should be metal, not plastic . . .

    But yes, the shorter chain is what made that work. With the tensioner arm so far down, that black insert was being pulled down out of the dropout because the 4mm socket-head fixing bolt was maxed out in its adjustment slot. I've seen this exact situation happen before.

    A better skewer and that chain length should make everything peachy for the life of the system, don't bother worrying about the axle lock nuts, since it's a new wheel and the above solution makes any further work unnecessary.

    Best of luck!


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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    That insert should be metal, not plastic . . .

    But yes, the shorter chain is what made that work. With the tensioner arm so far down, that black insert was being pulled down out of the dropout because the 4mm socket-head fixing bolt was maxed out in its adjustment slot. I've seen this exact situation happen before.

    This sounds exactly like what I am experiencing.

    I will get some decent skewers and have a play with the chain. I have a new one waiting to go on but want to decide on my chainring before I use it.

    Thanks,

    Mick

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Byrne View Post
    Yes that will do just fine, although I have good luck with the XT version, as the opposite-side nut has slightly more aggressive notching than the version you linked to.

    Shimano XT M775 Skewer | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

    You're very welcome though, glad to help a fellow traveler!


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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Yes that will do just fine, although I have good luck with the XT version, as the opposite-side nut has slightly more aggressive notching than the version you linked to.

    Shimano XT M775 Skewer | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

    You're very welcome though, glad to help a fellow traveler!

    Can someone confirm that I want 135mm?

  25. #25
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    Yep, 135mm.

    Grumps

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