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  1. #1
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    Made my frame choice. Talk me out of it...

    So after looking around and considering price, quality, specs and rear tire clearance, I am thinking that a Niner One 9 is the best candidate to replace my existing SS frame.

    I can't really justify x2 the cost for a carbon frame for a non-significant (to me) weight reduction.

    But being an open-minded kinda guy, I like to hear you all talk me out of this choice. What say you?

    BTW, I am a bigger guy (6', +200lbs) who rides all kinds of trails on the SS unless they are relentlessly rocky. I only race occasionally.
    Last edited by memine; 05-21-2013 at 11:37 AM.

  2. #2
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    Made my frame choice. Talk me out of it...

    SantaCruz Highball aluminum is reasonably priced, but you'll need to buy the SS dropouts. Still, the tensioning system is awesome and geometry is great, too.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  3. #3
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    I have a One 9 and it's a great bike. I actually like the EBB a lot.

    That said, I will talk you out of buying one. Although a good frame, there are some things I don't like about it. As a rec rider and not a race (XC, anyway), I don't like the XC geo with the long TT and steeper HTA. The longer CS length also gets to me at times, especially on steep climbs.

    I really like the bike and I have no plans to get rid of it, but if/when it goes, I am going back to a Nimble 9 (or similar geo). Short CS and slightly slacker HTA is where it's at. For your kind of riding, I would highly recommend checking out the Nimble 9. The new V2 frames are so sexy.

  4. #4
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    The word "choice" throws me off... times a wasting... get it, build it, & ride the snot out of it!

  5. #5
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    What would a Nimble 9 large frame weigh (approximate is fine)?

  6. #6
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    I believe 5.5lbs. My One9 is light (I think right at 21.75lbs with a Fox fork). My old Nimble9 was heavier (27.5lbs). The wheelsets were comparable, weight wise, but slightly heavier for the Nimble. I really don't notice much difference climbing. In fact, when it gets super steep, that where the Nimble9 shined. Since the CS was shorter, I didn't have to lean back as much (or at all) to get some traction back there. There are still a couple of steep climbs that I have yet to clear on the One9 due to rear tire slip, whereas the Nimble charged right up.

    Twisty stuff was more fun on the Nimble as well, since it handled quicker.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    As a rec rider and not a race (XC, anyway), I don't like the XC geo with the long TT and steeper HTA. The longer CS length also gets to me at times, especially on steep climbs.

    I really like the bike and I have no plans to get rid of it, but if/when it goes, I am going back to a Nimble 9 (or similar geo). Short CS and slightly slacker HTA is where it's at. For your kind of riding, I would highly recommend checking out the Nimble 9. The new V2 frames are so sexy.
    Same here. I'm purely a recreational rider (no intention of racing) and I went with a Yelli Screamy as my go-to ride. It is unbelievably fun. It is not, however, an SS frame so you'll either need to get clever or use a chain tensioner (I run a DMR-STS) to run it single. Same geo, I belive, as the N9.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by grundy View Post
    Same here. I'm purely a recreational rider (no intention of racing) and I went with a Yelli Screamy as my go-to ride. It is unbelievably fun. It is not, however, an SS frame so you'll either need to get clever or use a chain tensioner (I run a DMR-STS) to run it single. Same geo, I belive, as the N9.
    Yes, very similar geo. I would actually like to get a Yelli, but no SS option makes it a no-go for me. I asked them about a PF30 BB, so that I could at least run a Beer EBB, but I don't think there is any interest in that. I know people have had luck running 32x21 with no tensioner, but I don't like to be limited to my gearing choice.

  9. #9
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    my medium N9 frame weight 5.5lbs, so a large will be a little north of that. If you go for the latest version, I think they are over 6.5lbs...

  10. #10
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    Thanks. The N9 is a bit heavier than I want my next SS frame to be.

  11. #11
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    Another vote for the Highball Al. Large frame just over 4 lbs. Silly simple and reliable dropouts. Non-XC geometry.

    Got mine down to 23.5 lbs with heavy wheels and drivetrain.
    I crashed hard enough on my Tallboy to break my leg,
    The carbon is way more durable than most people.

  12. #12
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    Made my frame choice. Talk me out of it...

    My Highball SS with rigid Niner fork is a hair over 20#'s.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  13. #13
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    I don't own either but have considered getting a one9, actaully was planning on it until I ended up getting a killer deal on civilain luddite and really enjoy the ride of that bike as I have it setup now.

    My questions is one9 vs highball Al. I have heard the One9 is actaully very comliant for a Al frame, which I beleive part of has to do with longer CS. Highball on the other hand I have heard is very stiff and not very compliant, makes accleration great though. Is that sound right based on everyone's knowledge?

    Not that I will buy another SS anytime soon just curious.
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  14. #14
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    No need talking out of.

    Personally I think you made the right choice.
    The unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates
    Bearded Women Racing

  15. #15
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    Doing a bit more research, it seems that the SC Highball AI might be the better choice for me. The head angle is a more relaxed and the effective TT of the large size is exactly what I want (the Niner sizes offer TT length that is either too short or too long).

    Now if I could determine the rear tire clearance, I would be all set.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEMIjer View Post
    I don't own either but have considered getting a one9, actaully was planning on it until I ended up getting a killer deal on civilain luddite and really enjoy the ride of that bike as I have it setup now.

    My questions is one9 vs highball Al. I have heard the One9 is actaully very comliant for a Al frame, which I beleive part of has to do with longer CS. Highball on the other hand I have heard is very stiff and not very compliant, makes accleration great though. Is that sound right based on everyone's knowledge?

    Not that I will buy another SS anytime soon just curious.

    The HB Al seemed pretty stiff the 1st ride......however after that it seemed to be much tamer. Also, I was coming off a steel El Mariachi, so anything was gonna feel stiff.
    I crashed hard enough on my Tallboy to break my leg,
    The carbon is way more durable than most people.

  17. #17
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    I'll qualify this with the fact that I looked at a S.I.R. at one point, and based on the price of that:

    My next frame will be Ti. It will likely be from one of three manufacturers, selected for their location inside the US. It's a "lifetime purchase" sort of choice. Steel rusts. I'm not certain I trust carbon not to fatigue - I'm not saying it isn't safe, I'm considering a carbon fork for the frame - but I don't think it has the life expectancy of a good Ti frame. In fact, I would suggest that nothing has the life expectancy of a good Ti frame. Which is part of the reason I'll pay twice as much for it as a S.I.R. frame. Anyhow, I think if you haven't considered places like Twenty2 or Lynskey you're doing yourself a disservice. If you have considered them, and decided you still want the One....carry on.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    ...My next frame will be Ti. It will likely be from one of three manufacturers, selected for their location inside the US. It's a "lifetime purchase" sort of choice. Steel rusts. I'm not certain I trust carbon not to fatigue - I'm not saying it isn't safe, I'm considering a carbon fork for the frame - but I don't think it has the life expectancy of a good Ti frame. In fact, I would suggest that nothing has the life expectancy of a good Ti frame. Which is part of the reason I'll pay twice as much for it as a S.I.R. frame...
    That "lifetime purchase" is such BS. Please let us know if you ever "wear out" a frame in any material. Or hold on to a steel frame long enough for it to rust through.

    Get the Ti frame for its ride quality, looks, weight, whatever. But to say it's a "lifetime purchase" while others will wear out or break is nonsense.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    That "lifetime purchase" is such BS. Please let us know if you ever "wear out" a frame in any material. Or hold on to a steel frame long enough for it to rust through.

    Get the Ti frame for its ride quality, looks, weight, whatever. But to say it's a "lifetime purchase" while others will wear out or break is nonsense.
    +1

    There are lots of good materials for bicycle frames and lots of mis information. No one material is bad.

    Bicycle frames rarely "wear out" from fatigue or corrosion. What usually happens is a crash or the owner just gets bored and decides to replace it.

    Carbon fiber frames have near-infinite fatigue life so in truth a well made carbon frame is not going to fatigue. Most metal frames often have fatigue lives that would work out to the equivalent of a few million miles of rough single track. Some ultra light aluminum frames have pretty low fatigue numbers. For the most part a steel or Ti bike that is strong and stiff enough to ride well will also have super long fatigue life. Aluminum frames with good fatigue life are usually super stiff and about the same weight as a steel frame. With Aluminum, you can intentionally underbuild for a super lightweight frame that rides well but has a short fatigue life. Even with light frames fatigue failure is rare.

    When you look at fatigue and corrosion Ti is indeed the best but provided you paint your steel or aluminum frame and store it inside it will be fine. Steel will indeed rust but with reasonable care this is not an issue. Aluminum frames can oxidize, consider the old beer cans you see in the woods. Aluminum oxidization is about the same as rust and can be managed with paint.

    Carbon fiber frames are prone to UV damage if you leave them in bright sunlight but it is not really a big factor.

    When you get down to the most common cause of frame replacement you need to look at how the material handles a crash. Carbon tends to crack with hash impacts and lightweight carbon can fail quite quickly after a small crack starts. Aluminum will often crack before it bends and light weight aluminum frames are prone to beer can style failure where the tube can collapse. Steel and Ti frames are not immune to crash damage but they tend to come out a little better than Aluminum or Ti.

    It usually breaks down like this:

    Carbon: best for racing

    Aluminum and low end steel: Great for department stores and entry level bike

    High end steel and Ti: Great for niche and custom hand crafted products

    Get a frame that puts a smile on your face. Replace it when the simile wears out or when you crash badly.
    Mark Farnsworth, Raleigh, NC
    http://farnsworthbikes.com

  20. #20
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    While I partially agree on your call of bs by material choice, I couldn't help but laugh at your material breakdown at the end of your post citing that carbon is better for racing and alu and low end steel for department store bikes.

    I DO agree with getting the frame that puts a smile on your face!!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  21. #21
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    The only thing that stopped me from getting One 9 was compatibility with my current parts, and that would end up being way too expensive to build (since I would have to get a fork too). I still look at pictures of One9 and touch myself from time to time.
    Ghisallo Wheels

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    That "lifetime purchase" is such BS. Please let us know if you ever "wear out" a frame in any material. Or hold on to a steel frame long enough for it to rust through.

    Get the Ti frame for its ride quality, looks, weight, whatever. But to say it's a "lifetime purchase" while others will wear out or break is nonsense.
    Ok. I've owned 4 AL frames, all from well known quality manufacturers. Two of those fatigued to the point of breaking, one of the others suffered rock damage to a tube. The one that had no problems was a bike I sold when I hurt my back and thought I'd never ride again.

    I don't trade out bikes as often as it seems like most people do, I tend to wear stuff out, because I find something I like, and I keep it as long as it's working for me. And working doesn't mean winning races, it means being fun to ride. So maybe "lifetime purchase" is BS to you, but there's a reason I put it in quotes, and there's a reason I used those words. Doesn't mean it's the last frame I buy. It means I expect it to last until I decide I'm done with it.

    I'm not downing ANY other construction. I have a good friend with a carbon bike he rides all the time. It's (I kid you not) nearly 16 years old, and he's not a little guy, and he doesn't ride gently. I understand it has a good fatigue life. I've also seen (with my own eyes, not on an internet video or pictures of something broken) carbon break. Yes, it was crash damage. And yes, it's possible that any frame would have suffered damage from the crash. And yes, I'm considering a carbon fork. But it isn't what I want a frame made out of simply because of that. It isn't what I WANT a frame made out of.

    Steel? Nothing wrong with it. But if I throw a bike on a rack on the back of a car and drive through an area where the roads have been salted in the winter, I don't want to have to tear the bike down and meticulously wash the frame inside and out just to be sure.....and yes, I know they can be treated and sealed and all that. Any of that stuff can also be scratched, chipped, or just cracked a little from something and you have a compromised point.

    I'm not new to the game. I know what I want. I was making a point for me, by me, in a thread about bike frame purchase decisions. I respect the fact that you don't buy my idea. I should also point out that my own brother has broken a Ti frame, and that doesn't sway me against what I want, and why I want it. I don't believe that the ride of a Ti frame can't be duplicated by steel, I'm not an aesthetics monkey, I pretty much don't care what stuff looks like (hey, if you saw my ugly mug, you'd understand), and I'm not really a weight weenie, doesn't mean I don't like a light bike, but that's not why I'd pay $2K for a frame.

    Which brings us to the "lifetime purchase" thing again. If I'm going to spend that much money on something it'll be something I keep around for a while. I'm under no illusions about being able to buy a bike that lasts for the rest of my life. Again, that's why the phrase is in quotes. So while you jump on me about the use of the phrase because you don't think a frame will ever wear out, I'm telling you I put it in quotes because I don't think ANY frame will last that long, unless someone's grandmother gets it and rides it exclusively on the local rail trail.

    Yep. We agree. Lifetime purchase is BS. But we agree for completely opposite reasons. Funny huh?

  23. #23
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    I had SIR9, sold and bought last of the round tube ONE 9's. Love it for $ 400 on sale. I use 120 mm fork, and the geometry is fine for small frame. If I were you I would get new Sir 9. I miss Steel frame, but get EBB II for sure. I don't know if I could make the 142 rear spacing work though.

  24. #24
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    Made my frame choice. Talk me out of it...

    Had a one9 set up SS and converted everything to a Nimble 9. My One 9 was 24lbs and the Nimble 26lbs.

    Ride quality was huge on the Nimble compared to the Niner. Plus having a standard BB was nice

    If you get the Niner (our already have it get the EB2 BB it's nice.

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