Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 76
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    firstly, I know there have been a few threads comparing these frames, but bear with me!

    I am currently riding a 16" KM. it's actually a bit small for me, so I am in the market for a new, slightly longer frame. the 18" KM, 18" Inbred, and 16" Jabber have about the same ETT. cost is NOT and issue for me at this point. I want something steel that easily handles SS rigid but can go geared and used with a 80-100mm squish fork will be used mostly for single-track but could be used as a commuter, gravel grinder, etc if I want. I am 5'9" and about 150 pounds. all of these frames have an ETT of around 600mm, which is what I am after.

    Jabberwocky- very lightweight, sleek. oddly long chainstays could be a strength or weakness. smaller company. more trouble to set up geared, but will make a better SS bike.

    Inbred- good middle-of-the-road geo. funky look, which I kind of like.

    Karate Monkey- versatile, short CS option, comes with fork. less standover, probably the heaviest of the three.

    I have read a lot of comparisons among these frames but most reviews are from 2006 or so. the Karate Monkey has changed a bit since then, so I don't know if it's as heavy and stiff as it once was. I can't seem to find a reliable comparison of weight between the KM and the Inbred, but I am certain the Jabber is lighter than both. suggestions?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,424
    Surprised you don't have the Kona Unit in your list too?

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    I work at a bike shop that is not a kona dealer. I i didn't have the industry hookup, i would certainly get the inbred because that's cheaper than anything i can buy at wholesale prices. Awesome deal! however, that Jabber is mighty sexy.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 03-24-2013 at 01:52 PM.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    I can't help much, but I just built up a KM and this thing is fun! It handles single track well with the short stays and wheelbase. My 18" frame weighs 5 pounds 11 ouches - it also build up very easily. It was my first complete build and I highly recommend it for such. Mine weighs 24 pounds, which isn't too bad for a cost effective build on a steel bike and fork with mid grad and take off parts.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    thanks for getting me an accurate weight on the KM! according to Vassago, the Jabberwocky is about a full pound lighter than that, but that could depend on the individual frame I end up with.

  6. #6
    Monkey Junkie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    593
    Didn't you ride an 18" KM frame previously and switched to a 16"? May be confusing you with someone else on here..

    I like Surly, and I ride a 20" KM which I've enjoyed a lot. However, I'd definitely consider the Inbred as well if it were me. As far as the Jabberwocky goes - I've heard negative things about the ride quality based on the geometry. No personal experience though, and I know some people love them.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    I had an older 18" Monkey at first, the one with zero standover, and I had it set up wrong. I have learned a lot since then and found that the 16" is way too short a reach for me in the end unless I put a stupid-long stem on it.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    Jabberwocky it is!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vindiggitydog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    237
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Jabberwocky it is!
    Good call Turtle!! I have been on a Jabber for 3 years now, and love it. I have tried many different frames..ie. Monocog, Sir9, KM......., and Jabber climbs and descends better than all of them.

  10. #10
    Just Ride
    Reputation: Cormac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,739
    Oddly enough I'd been tossing these 3 frames around in my head of the past few months myself. I decided a few weeks back I'm going with the jabber and I'm just simply not gonna think about frame choice anymore. To avoid having to chose all over again. Now I need to do the whole inner debate back and forth with all the rest of the parts.
    SS ==> Nut up or Shut up!

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    I am going to be very disappointed if a 2.2 tire on a Crest rim doesn't fit between the stays with the axle slammed forward in the slots. i know this is not supposed to be a "short" bike, but if I have to run the rear axle back 18" like a limo, it's going to take some getting used-to.

    did not officially order the Jabber yet. waiting for folks to wake up on the west coast so I can grill they guy at Titus about that Inbred frame before I order.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 03-25-2013 at 07:24 AM.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    In case you change your mind again ... a 2.2 Geax AKA (on Crest) fits nicely in the Monkey slammed forward. I was also considering the Inbred (I like the SS only), but I'm happy with the Monkey because of the nimbleness. You can't go wrong with any of them.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    960
    I switched from a Jabber to an El Mariachi. The Jabber chain stays were just too long and it's a hack to run it geared.

    The alternator dropouts on the EL Mar, the 17.3" (geared) and 17.5" (SS with tension) chain stays sold me and I'm really glad I went for it.

    -Tom

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTscoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,268
    Can you EP a Canfield Nimble 9 and would it be in your budget? The new ones look sick and very versatile.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    167
    I've got a Jabberwocky and my girlfriend runs a KM, and I've ridden both. The Monkey is a little heavier, though the geometry makes it a bit more nimble. It's easier to loft the front end of the KM, too, when they're both running rigid steel forks. (A carbon fork helped lighten the front end of the Jabber a lot.) I'm not really sold on the Jabberwocky geometry for the type of riding I like to do. It's nice and stable on fast downhills, but I'm rarely going downhill fast.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3,424
    What's so odd about the Jabberwocky geometry, other than the long chain stays? Everything else seems pretty standard. Seat angle is a tiny bit more than usual.
    Wonder how they manage to make it 1/2 pound lighter? I know the Inbred got a bit heavier when they beefed it up to meet the CEN testing.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    with the Inbred's 17.5" stays, i should just fit a 32/20 gear on there with a new chain and with the axle all the way forward in the slots. I have a 10mm thru-axle, so it's not too hard to remove. with the Jabber's 17.7" stays, it won't work, so I would have to add a full link to my chain. so the geometry lists the chainstay at 17.7", but the actual chainstay depends on the gear combo you use, how tight you set the chain, and how stretched your chain is.

    according to EEhouse, a 32/20 will fit at about 18 inches of chainstay length. I think that 1/2" of rear end length might be felt, or will it?

    however, the Inbred has a higher bottom bracket. how will a lower BB with a longer CS compare to a higher BB with shorter CS?

    edit: f- it, just got off the phone with Tom at Vassago and ordered the 16" tan frame with a Gear Plug setup. this post made a lot of sense to me. If I really want to run the axle slammed, I can play around with cog sizes, half links, or just put a BB-mounted chain tensioner on it.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 03-25-2013 at 08:56 AM.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rob1035's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    916
    Honestly, with the 3 MTB frames I've had with sliding dropouts (Voodoo Wanga, Misfit dissent, now a N9), I really haven't noticed a huge difference in handling when the sliders change. The single biggest difference came from going to a short CS bike (the N9) from the longer CS on the Misfit. An inch difference I could tell; 1/8"? Not so much. Besides, that's only one aspect of a bikes handling.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    Honestly, with the 3 MTB frames I've had with sliding dropouts (Voodoo Wanga, Misfit dissent, now a N9), I really haven't noticed a huge difference in handling when the sliders change. The single biggest difference came from going to a short CS bike (the N9) from the longer CS on the Misfit. An inch difference I could tell; 1/8"? Not so much. Besides, that's only one aspect of a bikes handling.
    I can't tell 1/8 per say, but a small difference really helps me with traction - but I run micro tread rear tires and may be super sensitive in this regard.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    edit: f- it, just got off the phone with Tom at Vassago and ordered the 16" tan frame with a Gear Plug setup. this post made a lot of sense to me. If I really want to run the axle slammed, I can play around with cog sizes, half links, or just put a BB-mounted chain tensioner on it.
    Some really like the Wet Cat Geo. I never got along with it. It was really interesting to read some of the responses regarding climbing. I could never feel confident on the steep (steep) climbs, as I lost traction due to the long stays. I'd have to get my weight back, which put me in an awkward position for powering up climbs. Compare that to a Canfield Nimble 9 with super short stays--that thing powered up every climb I could muster my puny legs to turn the cranks. I'm a firm believer in short stays, but maybe that is specific to me and my riding style.

    I also did not like the loooong feel of the bike. But that's because I prefer short, nimble feeling from a bike, as I like to manual/hop/slice-dice my way up and down. Again, this probably is personal preference and affected by your local terrain.

    The Jabber was a nice looking frame, though, and the rear track ends were great.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    with the Inbred's 17.5" stays, i should just fit a 32/20 gear on there with a new chain and with the axle all the way forward in the slots. I have a 10mm thru-axle, so it's not too hard to remove. with the Jabber's 17.7" stays, it won't work, so I would have to add a full link to my chain. so the geometry lists the chainstay at 17.7", but the actual chainstay depends on the gear combo you use, how tight you set the chain, and how stretched your chain is.

    according to EEhouse, a 32/20 will fit at about 18 inches of chainstay length. I think that 1/2" of rear end length might be felt, or will it?

    however, the Inbred has a higher bottom bracket. how will a lower BB with a longer CS compare to a higher BB with shorter CS?

    edit: f- it, just got off the phone with Tom at Vassago and ordered the 16" tan frame with a Gear Plug setup. this post made a lot of sense to me. If I really want to run the axle slammed, I can play around with cog sizes, half links, or just put a BB-mounted chain tensioner on it.
    On the Monkey running 32x20 nets chainstays just shy of 17"; there will be a big difference between 17" and 18" stays I'd guess.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    I am going to give the Jabber a real chance. Tom at Vassago answered several emails from me on a Sunday and packed it up pronto so I can get it in time to go on a big ride next Sunday. I will give it a few months to get used to it. if for some reason I don't like it, it will be me, not the bike, and certainly not the company. I think I'll pick up an Inbred later to ride them both for comparison.

  23. #23
    Robtre
    Reputation: robtre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    653
    I am a Vassago fan. I just got my second Jabber Frame to build up and its gonna be rigid!
    -rides bikes for fun.

  24. #24
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,298
    i have both a jabber and a km in the same sizes and personally dislike how the jabber handles. although a tad lighter on the scale it feels porkier and much less nimble than the km. the front end feels heavier when climbing and it's more prone to spinning out as well. the km is by far my favorite of the two.

    i'm not saying it's a bad frame per se, as some people love them to death and won't ride anything else, but rather that i can tell a significant difference riding them back to back and imho the km is a superior frame hands down. will probably be selling the jabber soon.

    my .02
    Last edited by monogod; 03-25-2013 at 10:10 PM.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    i have both a jabber and a km in the same sizes
    when you say "same size," do you mean same seatpost length or same ETT? because the 16" Jabber is quite long, about the same size as most company's 18" frames. Riding a 18" Jabber would be like riding a 20" KM.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    when you say "same size," do you mean same seatpost length or same ETT? because the 16" Jabber is quite long, about the same size as most company's 18" frames. Riding a 18" Jabber would be like riding a 20" KM.
    Yes, it would appear very long.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    that's why I am getting a 16" Jabber to replace my too-short 16" KM. Otherwise, I would have gotten a 18" KM or Inbred.

  28. #28
    Just Ride
    Reputation: Cormac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,739
    so buy a size smaller than you would normally ride for the jabber? I was thinking of getting the 20" since that's what my current bike is. But if the 18" jabber is as long as most companies 20" seems that would be the way to go, if I'm reading this thread correctly?
    SS ==> Nut up or Shut up!

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Cormac View Post
    so buy a size smaller than you would normally ride for the jabber? I was thinking of getting the 20" since that's what my current bike is. But if the 18" jabber is as long as most companies 20" seems that would be the way to go, if I'm reading this thread correctly?
    Common method of bike sizing (by seat tube length) is not the best way. What you need to look at is the ETT (Effective Top Tube) measurement. What mack turtle is saying is that the ETT of the 16" Jabber is the same as 18" KM/Inbred. Seat tube length should really be irrelevant (so to speak) when getting sized for a bike.

  30. #30
    Just Ride
    Reputation: Cormac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,739
    That's what I gathered. With length I was referring to the ETT length, not seat tube length. I should have clarified.
    SS ==> Nut up or Shut up!

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    with the Inbred's 17.5" stays, i should just fit a 32/20 gear on there with a new chain and with the axle all the way forward in the slots. I have a 10mm thru-axle, so it's not too hard to remove. with the Jabber's 17.7" stays, it won't work, so I would have to add a full link to my chain. so the geometry lists the chainstay at 17.7", but the actual chainstay depends on the gear combo you use, how tight you set the chain, and how stretched your chain is.
    16" Jabber here. I pulled the chain adjusters and flipped them around and can now run 32/20 at 17.5" with just enough slack to get the chain off.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mack_turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,563
    ^sweet! that's what I am probably going to do to mine then.

  33. #33
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,298
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    when you say "same size," do you mean same seatpost length or same ETT? because the 16" Jabber is quite long, about the same size as most company's 18" frames. Riding a 18" Jabber would be like riding a 20" KM.
    ETT. cockpits set up the same.

    the jabber feels like piloting a skool bus on the trails compared to the km.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    ETT. cockpits set up the same.

    the jabber feels like piloting a skool bus on the trails compared to the km.
    It seems like it would. After only riding longer chainstay bikes, I took my new KM build on some very tight single track switchbacks and it does feel more agile.

  35. #35
    Just Ride
    Reputation: Cormac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,739
    What riding style is suited more toward the jabber opposed to the KM or inbreed?
    SS ==> Nut up or Shut up!

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    544
    Quote Originally Posted by jsqueri View Post
    16" Jabber here. I pulled the chain adjusters and flipped them around and can now run 32/20 at 17.5" with just enough slack to get the chain off.
    Curious what exactly you mean by flipping the tensioners around? Are you referring to the tuggnuts? I also have a 16", and I'm also running 32/20 with a Gusset Half link to decrease the chainstay length as much as possible. What a difference a small adjustment can make in regards to standing climb traction. On the downside, I can no longer fit my 2.35 Racing Ralphs, but I don't mind moving down to a 2.25.

    With that said, I've done a few recent rides on a Kona Honzo, sub 16.5" stays, and there's a huge improvement with traction during standing climbs, which is 90% of my riding. I don't have to lean as far back as when I'm on the Jabber. However, the climbs are still a tad tougher, probably due to the slack HA and 140mm fork.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    The tug nuts have a head on them that takes up more room then necessary. I flipped them around to get it out of the way. I couldn't get the chain slack enough to remove it the other way.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenaustin View Post
    Curious what exactly you mean by flipping the tensioners around? Are you referring to the tuggnuts? I also have a 16", and I'm also running 32/20 with a Gusset Half link to decrease the chainstay length as much as possible. What a difference a small adjustment can make in regards to standing climb traction. On the downside, I can no longer fit my 2.35 Racing Ralphs, but I don't mind moving down to a 2.25.

    With that said, I've done a few recent rides on a Kona Honzo, sub 16.5" stays, and there's a huge improvement with traction during standing climbs, which is 90% of my riding. I don't have to lean as far back as when I'm on the Jabber. However, the climbs are still a tad tougher, probably due to the slack HA and 140mm fork.
    I remember now. Flipping the tug nuts around allowed me to remove a full link rather than using a half link. That get a quarter inch shorter stay I believe.

    Off topic. Did you notice a difference in climbing with the extra weight of the honzo. I'm tempted.

  39. #39
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,298
    this is a tuggnut:




    this is the jabbernut:



    you're saying you turned the jabbernuts around and gained a lot more space?
    Last edited by monogod; 04-01-2013 at 10:24 PM.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jsqueri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    204


    Sorry the jabbernuts are what I'm talking about. You can see that it's pretty much just a machine screw with the screw head on one end and a knurled thumb screw on the other. The screw head prevents the hub from moving all the way to the front of the drop out. By flipping it around (and removing the thumb screws) I got the extra space I needed to pull the chain off. With the tensioner in the stock position I needed at least a half link more to get the chain off of the ring. I measure my cs length at 17.5 as opposed to 18" with the extra link or I believe 17.75" with a half link.

  41. #41
    WNC Native
    Reputation: nitrousjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,076
    I'll add my .02

    I've had several SS 29er frames in the past (Jabber, couple MCs, Zion 737, Jones Steel Diamond, GF Rig, OS BB, Unit, and now aboard a By:Stickel). The Jabber had a very nice steel feel to it and was very stable on fast downhills. However I live in western NC, we have lots of steep climbs and tight single track. The Jabber sucked majorly on those. I had a hard time keeping traction on any climbs, especially techy climbs that require more body shifting. Also as mentioned before it was like rolling a school bus, I had to swing wide on turns. I'll never own another bike with more than 17.3" or so CSs. I'm running my custom at about 16.7" with 32x20 and 16.5" when I swap out to 21T cog. It's amazing how much better that is!!!
    Once again, this is just my opinion for my riding style on my local terrain. But after spending time on the KM, I'm wagering we'll see you sell the Jabber.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  42. #42
    Bro Mountainbiker
    Reputation: Sheepo5669's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,583
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I am going to be very disappointed if a 2.2 tire on a Crest rim doesn't fit between the stays with the axle slammed forward in the slots. i know this is not supposed to be a "short" bike, but if I have to run the rear axle back 18" like a limo, it's going to take some getting used-to.

    did not officially order the Jabber yet. waiting for folks to wake up on the west coast so I can grill they guy at Titus about that Inbred frame before I order.
    I can fit a 2.35 rampage on a flow slammed forward. Dont sweat the tire clearance. 2.4 ardents will fit halfway back.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  43. #43
    Bro Mountainbiker
    Reputation: Sheepo5669's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    3,583
    I think you made the right decision. There is a time and a place for shorter chainstay bikes, but in my opinion, singlespeed isnt on of them.

    When the climbing gets super steep, you can focus on getting the power down instead of balancing on the rear wheel while leaning over the bars.

    On a geared bike, you just shift down and spin it up, but on a SS you really need to be able to put down some torque without lifting the front wheel.

    The long chainstays also give the bike a nicer ride quality in regards to rear wheel compliance over bumps.

    I liked my jabber so much, I built up a bander to race on. I liked my bander so much, I replaced the frame with an Optimus Ti. Now THAT is a rad frame.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    There is a time and a place for shorter chainstay bikes, but in my opinion, singlespeed isnt on of them.

    When the climbing gets super steep, you can focus on getting the power down instead of balancing on the rear wheel while leaning over the bars.

    On a geared bike, you just shift down and spin it up, but on a SS you really need to be able to put down some torque without lifting the front wheel...
    Can you clarify these statements? Here is how I see it (another ephiphany on the john): Whatever the CS length, it makes sense to me that you need a certain amount of "weight" on the rear to get it to bite. Longer CS might mean more leaning back to get the weight back there, whereas a shorter CS means more centered position to get an equal amount of weight distribution (compared to a longer CS). So as far as getting the power down, it has less to do with the CS and more to do with your preferred posture when you do the stand-n-grind. So I'm assuming your climbing position is more rear weight biased and mine is more centered. Which is why maybe you felt like the front end was going to lift on a short CS whereas I felt right at home. Correct me if I'm wrong. Good talk. Time to flush.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    544
    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    Longer CS might mean more leaning back to get the weight back there, whereas a shorter CS means more centered position to get an equal amount of weight distribution (compared to a longer CS).
    That's exactly the challenge, "more leaning back". If the CS is shorter, then you don't have to lean back as much, since the tire is closer to being right under you. At least for me, it requires more effort to lean back more and mash than it is to be more upright and mash. I've been riding my Jabber for some time now, and didn't realize how much more effort/thought is needed to get the rear to stick, until I've gotten in a few rides on a Honzo with sub 16.5" CS. On the Honzo, I can be more upright while standing and pulling up on the bars. If I did the same on the Jabber, I would easily spin out. The Honzo isn't ready to replace my Jabber though, as the slack HT and 140mm squish definitely affects climbing in a different way, compared to the Odis 80mm-correct rigid.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenaustin View Post
    That's exactly the challenge, "more leaning back". If the CS is shorter, then you don't have to lean back as much, since the tire is closer to being right under you. At least for me, it requires more effort to lean back more and mash than it is to be more upright and mash. I've been riding my Jabber for some time now, and didn't realize how much more effort/thought is needed to get the rear to stick, until I've gotten in a few rides on a Honzo with sub 16.5" CS. On the Honzo, I can be more upright while standing and pulling up on the bars. If I did the same on the Jabber, I would easily spin out. The Honzo isn't ready to replace my Jabber though, as the slack HT and 140mm squish definitely affects climbing in a different way, compared to the Odis 80mm-correct rigid.
    That is exactly what I experienced going from Jabber to a Nimble 9. Now I'm on a Jones and very happy.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    544
    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    That is exactly what I experienced going from Jabber to a Nimble 9. Now I'm on a Jones and very happy.
    Hmm..I just reread Sheepo's take on short CS, and didn't realize his view is opposite of our experience. Guess as always, there's many other variables to consider like body type (longer arms), etc, so the experiences will always vary. Why the switch from the N9 to Jones?

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenaustin View Post
    Why the switch from the N9 to Jones?
    Same reason as most of my bike purchases. This cursed forum.

    Just wanted to see what the hub-bub was about. Spoke to Jeff at lengths and he has some quirky ideas. Enough so, that I had to try one out. I miss the suspension, but not as much as I thought I would. Especially those techy downhill sections. Now I've got a knard up front to keep my shoulders happier.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rob1035's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    916
    I too find climbing with short stays (N9) much easier. Well climbing is hard regardless with SS, but with the N9, like was said above, its much more intuitive to have the rear tire weighted, therefore better climbing traction, and I can still make whatever moves I need with the front end (its not too light or too heavy).

    Conversely, I would really like to get a Jabber for some trails, as I would like to contrast the Wet Cat geo to the new fangled short-CS slack front I'm used to.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148

    Karate Monkey, Inbred, Jabberwocky

    I also like climbing with shorter stays compared to long. I think this proves the adaptability of the human body above all else.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Karate monkey vs. Inbred?
    By donalson in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-23-2013, 07:39 PM
  2. geo/fit: Karate Monkey vs. Jabberwocky
    By mack_turtle in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-21-2013, 07:48 PM
  3. Karate Monkey VS On One Inbred 29er LTD
    By Slash5 in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-27-2012, 06:53 PM
  4. Karate Monkey vs. Vassago Jabberwocky
    By schmed in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-18-2011, 11:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •