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  1. #1
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    inbred 29 SS vs KM

    Yes, I searched. Found a lot of info, much of which i already know. Now, I'm looking for opinions....

    Which of these frames to build up? I intend to stay fully rigid, SS, mostly parts-bin build with new wheels/tires. I'm in a weird place, bike-wise, but here's the pros/cons as I see it:

    KM:
    +++ Comes with matching fork, can buy it at the lbs, I like the bent seat-tube/431mm chainstays for a shorter wheelbase and (presumably) agile handling (1degree steeper head angle, too)---i suspect that it'll take fatter tires than the inbred

    Inbred SS
    +++ Cheaper, no derailer cable bosses to look funny while empty, b!tchin wishbone rear end, i like the white paintjob

    Basically, the geometry is probably the biggest deal here. They both have the same build requirements, so it's not like there's any considerations as to what parts on-hand will fit. Weight isn't a big consideration, either, but I think the KM has got to be heavier. (Probably not by much.) I like to buy from my LBS when I can, so i don't feel like a ****** when i stop in on some bike I never bought from them...

    Biggest question, perhaps, is: will 14mm of chainstay make that big of a difference? And, if so, which would be preferable? FWIW, i live in NJ, my trails tend to be sorta flat, often rooty, sometimes sandy. I'm a fat guy and would get either frame in the 18" size....

    Thanks!
    -rob

  2. #2
    SS in CO
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    I rode a geared Inbred for about 2 years and really loved it. rode real nice (both rigid and w/suspension) and felt quick. there seemed to be plenty of room for tires in the back as long as you had the stays slid out. I rode the crap out of that bike until the frame broke.

    last year I basically stole a KM from a bike swap meet and rode it for a good couple of months. it was set up pretty close to my Inbred w/the exception of the rim brakes, grip shifters and different handlebars. it was rigid. I liked it, but not as much as my Inbred. I felt like it was a little more sluggish in the turning category. granted, I only owned it for a few months and rode it mostly on the street for fun...I did hit the trails a handful of times, but not ever more than just the easy local trails.

    if you get the Inbred, get the On-One fork as well...I hear that makes the Inbred handle even better.

    J.
    are you a bike shop owner? or a custom builder? I want to talk to you about your website

  3. #3
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    I might grab the same On One SS only frame and carbon fork to build up a leftovers parts bin bike too. I'd also be interested in hearing comparisons.

  4. #4
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    I've not ridden a 29 Inbred, but I've got a 26" version. Nice finish and quality, especially at the price (I think I paid $250 shipped years ago). Good tire clearance and I do like the geo. One nit-pick is the stupid rear brake mounts. Since they put it between the chain/seat stays, you have to use hydro brakes (BB7's will work with some MacGuyvering, but I couldn't get it set up right). Other than that, I think it's a great bang/buck.

    Surly is a good frame as well. Slightly more XC than Inbred, but about the same. Heftier frame, which could be a good thing.

    My opinion is, I'd get the Inbred solely based on cost. You can get a frame + On One carbon fork for less than the KM frameset. With that said, I would personally wait for the Surly Krampus and build that up.

  5. #5
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    Funny, I got flamed and neg rep'ed for asking the same question about a year ago.
    I went with the Inbred and haven't looked back. I liked that first Inbred so much that I immediately sold my X-Caliber and built up another rigid geared Inbred, then a front suspension geared Inbred, then a drop bar monstercross Inbred.
    If you're building a larger frame up, the BB7 problem can be solved using a hex bolt for the cable bolt. Otherwise, using a 180 rear disk solves it as well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    Inbred SS
    +++ Cheaper, no derailer cable bosses to look funny while empty, b!tchin wishbone rear end,
    I read somewhere the wishbone rear end on Inbred isn't for big boys. I'd considered between the two as well, and though Inbred is cheaper, it would be in $400 range with a fork, and like you said, KM is readily available from my LBS, so I'm currently leaning towards KM (currently on 2010 Kona Unit, considering either 2012 Unit or KM frame build up).
    Ghisallo Wheels

    I'm really good looking.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    Funny, I got flamed and neg rep'ed for asking the same question about a year ago.
    I went with the Inbred and haven't looked back. I liked that first Inbred so much that I immediately sold my X-Caliber and built up another rigid geared Inbred, then a front suspension geared Inbred, then a drop bar monstercross Inbred.
    If you're building a larger frame up, the BB7 problem can be solved using a hex bolt for the cable bolt. Otherwise, using a 180 rear disk solves it as well.
    Which frames do you have? Do you happen to know if an 18" frame can except a 160 BB7 rotor?

  8. #8
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    Jabberwocky.
    Pedal through it!

  9. #9
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    I don't have any experience with the Inbred, but I loved my KM. I equated it's handling to a Camaro (or your sister); a little loose, a little unrefined, and fun to throw around.

  10. #10
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    Love my SS white inbred. I've used it with a 80mm pushed fox rlt 29 and black ops carbon fork and feels great with both. I use elixir cr's 180/180 and it's never failed me.

  11. #11
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    I love the KM for eastern PA singletrack (probably similar to what you've got in Jersey) but suspect either would serve you well.

    I've heard *great* things about the jabberwocky - looked like vassago was out of commission for a while but glad to see their site is back up. My friend went from a KM (which he sold to me) to a jabber and absolutely loves it. It has a lower BB and longer chainstays than the Karate Monkey, which gives a very stable ride but makes clearing obstacles a bit tougher. This is great for him (he lives a couple miles from white clay creek) but would cause some problems for my normal riding.
    Yeah I only carry cans cause I'm a weight weenie.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Which frames do you have? Do you happen to know if an 18" frame can except a 160 BB7 rotor?
    It's a 19.5 SS LTD. The cable pinch bolt is very close - I'd recommend the 180 or another brake.
    I'll post a picture later.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    It's a 19.5 SS LTD. The cable pinch bolt is very close - I'd recommend the 180 or another brake.
    I'll post a picture later.
    Thanks, so the 180 is no problem?

  14. #14
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    ...or go with hydros of any size. I still used a 160mm BB7, and it was a minor inconvenience on my 16" Inbred.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Thanks, so the 180 is no problem?
    Haven't done it myself but see this thread.
    BB7 rear won't fit my Inbred 29er swapout

    Search here sucks but try a Google with "bb7 site:http://forums.mtbr.com/one"
    A few other threads there.

  16. #16
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    I dont have any experience with the KM but I can tell you that I have been thouroughly pleased with my Inbred. I am using Marta SL brakes and had to take a little material off of the rear slider to get it to work.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails inbred 29 SS vs KM-inbredii.jpg  


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    Funny, I got flamed and neg rep'ed for asking the same question about a year ago....
    I've found that, on virtually ALL online forums, piles of ppl anxiously await the chance to flame ppl for asking questions that they feel are redundant. Never mind that these responses
    are far more redundant and banal than virtually any other cloned question/thread; they do it anyway. That's why I do a search first, and preemptively mention that search before I ask a question. It placates most of them, but it is tedious and kind of annoying in and of itself. (Really, if one hates seeing the same question more than once, one might wanna avoid online forums entirely....OR maybe just don't click on threads that look like something you've seen before, right?)

    Regardless, thanks for your advice/input on the Inbred. Muchly appreciated.

  18. #18
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    Thank you, everyone, for your well-considered responses. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the KM b/c I'm thinking the lbs needs my cash and probably deserves it more. OTOH, the Inbred certainly has more fans here, and that is most likely deserved. (I'd counted out the Jabberwocky, as I'd thought that Vassago had gone the way of the buffalo, but I'll look into it...)

    rob

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    Thank you, everyone, for your well-considered responses. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the KM b/c I'm thinking the lbs needs my cash and probably deserves it more. OTOH, the Inbred certainly has more fans here, and that is most likely deserved. (I'd counted out the Jabberwocky, as I'd thought that Vassago had gone the way of the buffalo, but I'll look into it...)

    rob
    oooh, the Jabber. The new Vassago has gotten some folks interested again, including myself. I'm actually wrapping up a nos Jabber as we speak. Since I dumped it (like a lot of us did), I've tried a few frames, including the Inbred, and Niner, but I still kept thinking about it each time I went out on another frame. In other words, lots of us have regretted letting it go in the first place. I figured this new Jabber will do for now until the new frames roll out and I figure out which one I want to go with. Who knows, maybe a new jabber design will show up soon like the new Bander. In any case, since you mentioned it, definitely give Vassago a look. So far, the new reps have been great.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenaustin View Post
    oooh, the Jabber. The new Vassago has gotten some folks interested again, including myself. I'm actually wrapping up a nos Jabber as we speak. Since I dumped it (like a lot of us did), I've tried a few frames, including the Inbred, and Niner, but I still kept thinking about it each time I went out on another frame. In other words, lots of us have regretted letting it go in the first place. I figured this new Jabber will do for now until the new frames roll out and I figure out which one I want to go with. Who knows, maybe a new jabber design will show up soon like the new Bander. In any case, since you mentioned it, definitely give Vassago a look. So far, the new reps have been great.
    Why dump a frame because the company went under anyway? They seemed to make some good frames, it's great they're back on track.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Why dump a frame because the company went under anyway? They seemed to make some good frames, it's great they're back on track.
    it was probably a rhetorical question, but I'll answer anyway.... combination of things, mainly 1) financial reasons (house purchase), 2) trimming the herd (see #1), 3) no more company means no more warranty, which means no riding (see #1 and #2). Take my word, I would still have the frame otherwise, and "gsteitz", would be riding something crappy instead. haha.

    ...and yes they do make good frames, and geometry seems to be a big plus for a lot of folks.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenaustin View Post
    ...
    ...and yes they do make good frames, and geometry seems to be a big plus for a lot of folks.
    I've yet to try the geometry of the jabberwocky, but I think it presents an interesting case on paper. They took a different approach by going long and low, and i think that'd address some of the things about past 29ers that I never warmed up to.

    And, being that they've got tan framesets on special at the vassago site for @$400***EDIT: $400 is frame-only; $550 for the F/F (which is an OK deal, but not exactly "in the thick of the price battle"*** , it puts them right in the thick of the price battle. Sure, it'd be cheaper to go on-one SS with a project2 fork, but only @$100 once you factor in shipping... And, sure, my LBS gives me a nice discount, but the $475 full retail for the KM, it won't beat the jabber on price, either...(My discount ain't that good, and if it were, it would sorta negate the "feel good about supporting the lbs" argument..)

    Hmmmm
    Last edited by surreal; 11-17-2012 at 07:15 AM.

  23. #23
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    Don't hold the Jabber back based on how the geometry looks on paper. I ride some fairly rocky single track here in central Texas and this bike by no means holds me back. It just works.
    Pedal through it!

  24. #24
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    I had a Jabber for a season and I personally didn't like it. Long and low is definitely what it felt like. It was like riding a canoe. Big negative for me was on the climbs. Longer CS meant you had to shift your weight way back to get some bite.

    But many others really like that geo, so it just depends on your riding style.

    BTW, bicycleoutfittersindy has the KM frame set for ~$400 ($475 + 15% off coupon). Maybe your lbs can match.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    I had a Jabber for a season and I personally didn't like it. Long and low is definitely what it felt like. It was like riding a canoe. Big negative for me was on the climbs. Longer CS meant you had to shift your weight way back to get some bite.

    But many others really like that geo, so it just depends on your riding style.

    BTW, bicycleoutfittersindy has the KM frame set for ~$400 ($475 + 15% off coupon). Maybe your lbs can match.
    You mean it didn't ride like a steel hardtail?


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotu View Post
    You mean it didn't ride like a steel hardtail?

    There you go again with your d0uchebaggery. If you actually read that in context, I was talking about the ride quality, not the geo. in the other thread.

    Since you're already in this thread, let's hear another one of your e-reviews about your experiences on your e-ride on this frame. Does R-tech ride better than Sanko? Kungfu?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotu View Post
    You mean it didn't ride like a steel hardtail?

    Hello. While searching, I saw a thread where you & phsycle got into a massive back-n-forth about the Unit versus the MCog. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can see both sides of what I regard as a philosophical debate. On the one hand, to most ppl on Earth, a bike is a bike is a bike, and measuring/discussing the perceived differences between the KM, the Inbred, and the Jabber seems like a pointless examination of minutiae. I believe that this is where you stand.

    On the other hand, the rest of us do think that their are noticeable differences among steel hardtails. Many ppl are concerned with weight; others feel that different "brands" of steel, and different butting profiles, lead to different ride characteristics. I feel there is merit to both of those viewpoints, but as a heavier dude, I tend to choose heavy frames with thick-walled tubing when I can, so these aren't big considerations for me. I'm more worried about the geometry side of things. While other considerations (such as fit, saddle height, stem & bar set-ups, etc) will impact how a given frame feels, I'm kind of hung up on how these frames differ geometrically. While they are all steel hardtails, with a pile of similarities, I do think that the jabber would ride decidedly differently than a KM, with the Inbred fitting somewhere in between.

    This is basically the type of discussion I'm trying to have with this thread.

    Sorry to write a novel; I'm just thinking that, if a i type a whooooole lot of stuff right now, we can avoid a whole lot of smaller posts and bickering.

  28. #28
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    You have it backwards. He's the one that said there is no perceptable difference between like 17 different frames. That all steel frames have the same ride quality. (presuming its a "he"...)

    I frankly don't give a crap one way or another, this is just a cute thing I have with phsycal. Sorry to derail your thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    Hello. While searching, I saw a thread where you & phsycle got into a massive back-n-forth about the Unit versus the MCog. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can see both sides of what I regard as a philosophical debate. On the one hand, to most ppl on Earth, a bike is a bike is a bike, and measuring/discussing the perceived differences between the KM, the Inbred, and the Jabber seems like a pointless examination of minutiae. I believe that this is where you stand.

    On the other hand, the rest of us do think that their are noticeable differences among steel hardtails. Many ppl are concerned with weight; others feel that different "brands" of steel, and different butting profiles, lead to different ride characteristics. I feel there is merit to both of those viewpoints, but as a heavier dude, I tend to choose heavy frames with thick-walled tubing when I can, so these aren't big considerations for me. I'm more worried about the geometry side of things. While other considerations (such as fit, saddle height, stem & bar set-ups, etc) will impact how a given frame feels, I'm kind of hung up on how these frames differ geometrically. While they are all steel hardtails, with a pile of similarities, I do think that the jabber would ride decidedly differently than a KM, with the Inbred fitting somewhere in between.

    This is basically the type of discussion I'm trying to have with this thread.

    Sorry to write a novel; I'm just thinking that, if a i type a whooooole lot of stuff right now, we can avoid a whole lot of smaller posts and bickering.

  29. #29
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    Don't worry about fotul. He hasn't even actually been mountain biking, since there aren't any mountains in the PNW.

  30. #30
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    I haven't ridden the 29er On One, but I've had a Inbred for 4 years, love it. I also have 2 X KM, the newer frame and the earlier one, I really rate both of them but the newer one is pretty hard to beat...............

  31. #31
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    Personally...of the two, I would get the Surly KM for these reasons.
    The Karate Monkey is one of the most iconic MTB frames of all time. It is simply a classic do-it-all. Its a proven frame that just lasts!
    You are supporting your LBS.
    The shorter CS's allow the front end to "pop-up" easier on step ups. It will also corner tighter and be more nimble. The front end will make it just that much quicker. I wouldn't worry so much about the HA, the 29" wheels bring tons of stability.

    Now...I have no objections for the Imbred. They ride decent, but it is a longer feeling bike. The longer the back end is, the more stable it will feel on descents.. Also, the price is very hard to beat! If I had a reason to buy another singlespeed, that one would be fun!
    I like the fact that it doesn't come with a fork so you could score a better riding fork than the one than the one that comes with the KM if you bought the KM....

    Actually, that said, my vote goes towards the Imbred.
    On One Inbred 29er Single Speed LTD Edition
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
    Trek Boone 5 Disc
    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  32. #32
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    Fotu&Phsycle: no worries re: thread derailment, any past rivalries, my confusion re: previous threads, or anything else. I don't own this thread (even if I am the OP) any more than I own mtbr. I was just trying to increase the peace.

    I really do feel appreciative of all the advice and impressions that y'all have given me, even if it hasn't helped with the indecision at all. Seems like I'm looking at 3 different frames instead of just the 2 now, and great cases have been made for every frame involved.

    Dubdryver's post went from a decisive endorsement of the KM to an equally decisive switch to the Inbred. That's basically exactly where I am currently; every time I think I've made my mind up, and I start to either put the On-One in the "cart" online or start texting the LBS owner about an order, I second guess myself...

    The bigger picture involves schemes to get a custom bike built, but I want to be more sure of my likes/dislikes before I pull the trigger. I guess I ought to just get with the program and buy a frame, go from there. (My only previous SS29er was a standard MC; nothing wrong with it, but I wouldn't base a custom on that geo...even as a vague starting point)

    -rob

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    Sorry to post such a contradicting statement lol.

    In the end though, you have to ride it, not the bike shop!
    If it were me, I'd personally go with the Inbred simply because
    it spares nearly an extra $300. You could easily get a great fork for $100
    and invest the extra $200 into a better wheelset. Wheelset upgrade is the single biggest
    upgrade you can do to your bike anyways, and $200 goes a long way!
    From a budget perspective, that just makes sense to me.

    The nice thing about both frames though is that if you end up not liking it, or find a deal on an
    upgrade...both will sell pretty easy to recoup some funds!

    I build all my bikes (my cervelo being the exception) and I understand part selection and budgeting. To me, going through the build process and spec'ing the bike out, finding deals
    is the most fun part besides actually putting my efforts into motion!

    Thinking about this has me excited about my next project: On One Dirty Disco cyclocross!
    I CANT WAIT!
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
    Trek Boone 5 Disc
    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  34. #34
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    double post

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    I've haven't ridden either extensively, but everyone I know who has owned a Karate Monkey has loved it dearly and regretted parting with it (if they did).

    given the choice? For me, karate monkey.

  36. #36
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    I am stuck on my monkey. My friend's Inbred felt long and boat like in comparison, but he could make it fly through the air like a BMX bike. In the end, you will grow to love either bike. Pick the one that makes the most sense to buy and never look back. Both are well loved beasts of burden.

    By the way, I can tell the difference with a 1/10th of an inch difference in chainstay length. Call me a liar or whatever, but the fact is, I can feel it with back to back comparisons. After a 2-3 miles in the saddle, I completely adapt. So, in essence, it is a non issue, unless you already are used to a short CS bike.
    Responds to gravity

  37. #37
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    I've ridden both here - My two cents.

    Get an Inbred and one of those Inbred Carbon forks and ride the snot out of it and smile at the way the bike handles.

  38. #38
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    Just FYI, if you decide to go KM, bicycleoutfittersindy.com is having a 25% off sale. That makes the KM ~$350 shipped. Not a bad deal at all. Coupon code: CYBER25

    This sale doesn't start until Friday, I believe.

  39. #39
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    The indecision remains, but the 25% off sale is pretty nice.

  40. #40
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    I can't really put myself in your position so I won't even try. I'd get the Karate Monkey but that's just me.

    Here's what I do when a rational comparison isn't clear cut: flip a coin. But there's a catch: don't blindly follow the coin, but note your reaction to the result. So if it's heads for Inbred and tails for KM, you get heads and feel disappointed, you will know KM is the right choice. But if you feel relief at the sight of heads, you'll know Inbred is the way to go.

    When the choice is that difficult, the upside is that neither is a clearly bad choice, so go with intuition.

  41. #41
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    My 29er inbred LTD.... just after a wash before my first race with it.....



  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by meezo View Post
    My 29er inbred LTD.... just after a wash before my first race with it.....


    Nice, do you have a parts list? I want to build this same frame up with parts bin stuff I have sitting around.

  43. #43
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    What's the bottle cage on the seat post? That would save me gasping when borrowing my mate's Viscount without bottle cage bolts when visiting his place in France..............

  44. #44
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    Flashes - You can get those seat post bottle mounts fairly cheap. Actually, I went by a Specialized dealer and they gave them to me for free. They come in some of the higher end bikes, but the owners usually don't want them.

  45. #45
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    Right, I'll spin down to the Specialized dealer, cheers

  46. #46
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    I bet your bottle gets muddy with those...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fryed_1 View Post
    I bet your bottle gets muddy with those...
    It adds nutrients

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    Thank you, everyone, for your well-considered responses. As of right now, I'm leaning towards the KM b/c I'm thinking the lbs needs my cash and probably deserves it more. OTOH, the Inbred certainly has more fans here, and that is most likely deserved. (I'd counted out the Jabberwocky, as I'd thought that Vassago had gone the way of the buffalo, but I'll look into it...)

    rob
    On more KM fan here

    If you want to ride a rigid fork, KM comes with it. On One unfortunately has no steel fork for the inbred. Cannot understand this.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    On more KM fan here

    If you want to ride a rigid fork, KM comes with it. On One unfortunately has no steel fork for the inbred. Cannot understand this.
    The used to make it. Not sure why they stopped. But they've got carbon options or plenty of other steel forks available (Salsa, Surly, etc). But I do like the segmented fork on my Inbred.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Nice, do you have a parts list? I want to build this same frame up with parts bin stuff I have sitting around.
    DT Swiss 450SL
    LX crank
    OnOne Carbon Fork
    Inbred 29er Single Speed LTD Edition 16"
    OnOne Chaintug
    OnOne Flatbar
    OnOne Smoothie Regular headset
    OnOne Alloy SeatClamp bolt
    OnOne SingleSpeed converter kit 16T Sproket
    OnOne Seatpost
    OnOne 3D 100m Stem
    Kenda Nevagal John Tarmac Edition
    Esi chucky grips
    SLX brakes
    Crankbrothers Candy 2 Red pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by flashes View Post
    What's the bottle cage on the seat post? That would save me gasping when borrowing my mate's Viscount without bottle cage bolts when visiting his place in France..............
    The clamps are Specialized, can be found at most LBS's the bolt cage is profile design. Best IMO for MTB, it has a little elastic around the top of the cage

    Quote Originally Posted by fryed_1 View Post
    I bet your bottle gets muddy with those...
    Absolutely, but most of the time i ride with my "toolbox", the one shaped like a bottle, in there with most of my tools, because it's a SS and wrt i'm not really gonna be competitive so i don't mind stopping at water points to fill my bottle takes less than 2mins.....

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