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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    18" black Jabber, looks good so far!
    Very cool, especially the head badge. Looks like a great frame. Congrats.
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  2. #102
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    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-2017-08-25-10.19.26.jpg

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-2017-08-25-10.19.50.jpg

    100mm Reba
    Hadely rear hub with 142x12 axle
    34/21 gear with AB oval

    I was hoping to get some riding in the weekend, but Harvey has other plans.
    Thorn in your Sidewall
    Vassago Jabberwocky

  3. #103
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    That turned out nicely. Frame/fork look like they're made for each other.
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  4. #104
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    You got a photo of the rear seat stay clearance with the wheel/ tire in the frame? I've been looking at getting one but don't like 29+ and don't want to get the frame if the bike looks goofy without a 29+ tire in the frame.
    Ride & Smile

  5. #105
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    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-ljis7dd.jpg

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-vl8jn7v.jpg

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-qfqtdek.jpg

    It's a pretty big gap, but this is a 25mm i.d. rim with a 29x2.25 Crossmark on it. I am sure that a bigger tire would look more reasonable and leave lots of room for crd to not get jammed up in the frame.

    Also, I don't plan on looking back at my rear tire much while riding.
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  6. #106
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    Looks good man. I'm curious to hear your impression of the geometry of this frame compared to others you've recently owned.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  7. #107
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    I have owned a lot of bikes that didn't fit me well. The closest thing was my Soma Juice, which is an awesome frame.

    My main reason for buying a Jabber was the longer top tube. I sold a Niner ROS 9 to buy this for exactly this reason. Might get a wet pavement/ gravel ride in tomorrow, but Harvey is pushing rainstorms into Central Texas right now, so I won't get a proper trail ride in for a while.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's a pretty big gap, but this is a 25mm i.d. rim with a 29x2.25 Crossmark on it. I am sure that a bigger tire would look more reasonable and leave lots of room for crd to not get jammed up in the frame.

    Also, I don't plan on looking back at my rear tire much while riding.
    Thanks Man!

    I don't plan on looking back there when riding either but 99% of riding is looking good while you do it.

    MM
    Ride & Smile

  9. #109
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    (I already posted this onbthe wheels forum.)

    Is the 12mm thru axle that comes with this frame just crappy or is it adjustable somehow? When I thighten it, it only works in the 6 o'clock position. This is sketchy.I have seen the light... Vassago convert-2017-09-01-08.03.20.jpg

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    How do you adjust the angle of the lever?
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  10. #110
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    Is there no adjustable nut on the other side?

  11. #111
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    No. Should there be? Each dropout is a single, solid piece of metal. Like this B4037: Right Side, Sliding, Hanger, DT Swiss 12 mm
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  12. #112
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    Huh. I guess they use different 12x142 dropouts on the Jabb/Verhauen. Mine has a nut that can be adjusted similar to on a fork.

  13. #113
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    That must be a Fox or Shimano thing because my Rockshox fork does not have such an adjustment.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 05-09-2018 at 07:05 AM.
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  14. #114
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    Mine is like yours on the 'nut' side Mack, but the lever end is a little different. On mine, I screw the axle in with the lever 'open' to *almost* tight, then flip the lever closed like a reg QR can, and then I can reposition the lever wherever I want.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  15. #115
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    I keep looking at the pictures on the bottom, I feel like those threads or the set screw allow for adjustment, somehow.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  16. #116
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    I guess so. For reference, similar to this:

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-indicatornubbyqr32.gif

    So, I just checked my other bikes and they use yet another system that also looks different than yours where the axle is screwed in all the way and then clamped at whatever angle is desired. Sorry I can't help.

  17. #117
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    I figured it out.

    ARandomBiker, you were on the right track.
    Thorn in your Sidewall
    Vassago Jabberwocky

  18. #118
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    Wink

    My frame is on the way! Teaser shot.

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-verhauen.jpg

    By the way, I received GREAT service all the way through the process. He even called last night and we talked shop for quite awhile even answering all of my stupid and random questions. Tom had already made the sale, and didn't have to talk to me, but he put up with my crap and offered to help me going forward with my build. Looking forward to building it up this winter!

  19. #119
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    Someone say we need Vassago pictures in this thread?

    My Jabber with WetCat geometry someone called a death machine earlier.
    That is laughable... it is a rock solid XC machine and has been fantastic fun everywhere I have taken it.
    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-v5.jpgI have seen the light... Vassago convert-v4.jpg

    My VerHauen with FastCat geometry. More relaxed than the Jabber - but it was ultimately let go so I could get Vassago #3.
    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-v3.jpg

    The Optimus Ti. I have beaten this bike in ways a hardtail should not be beaten. But it has taken it all in stride. THe more I beat it, the more I have grown to like it.I have seen the light... Vassago convert-v2.jpgI have seen the light... Vassago convert-v1.jpg


    Vassago #4 is in the works...

    Regarding the customer service - a the one story is almost impossible for me to imagine. That is not to say it isn't true, just so far from my experience.

    Vassago is a small shop. Tom is the key Cog to it all working... he also races, supports local races, etc... So he is not always at the office or glued to his email. I know that sucks when you want an immediate response - but if you understand that up front, it helps to understand the fast responses followed up with some slow responses.

    I am not making excuses for them... but kind of throwing out there what I know about them and my experience with them. Hopefully that helps others.

  20. #120
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    mack_turtle - I went back and looked and see you're the one that mentioned the wetcat frame being a crasher... and you also said you loved your juice... I also own a juice and find them hard to compare. I rode the Juice at SSWC in Japan and it did great with a 100mm fork. I ultimately made the Juice geared and went up to a 120mm and my confidence in the bike has faded. So much so, I have it posted locally for sale.

    Granted, I own 4 hardtails - so losing 1 isn't really a loss, but it is the one to go.

  21. #121
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    Hi all...just noticing this thread, so Iíll weigh in. Longtime MTBR member, but havenít posted much in recent years. Just got a new Optimus Ti 29+, so totally restoked, and have been getting re-engaged here.

    Some background:
    - Iíve been SSíing since ~2005, on Kona Unit 29ís (cracked two), Niner SIR9ís (cracked three), and two Optimus Tiís (ďfirst genĒ from 2013, and the new OpTi)
    - I do endurance XC riding, including 12/24 hour solo stuff. Also do moderate tech, but no crazy shit. I ride it all on my SS.

    With regard to the original OpTi being a ďdeath trapĒ (or whatever was referenced), Iíve got thousands and thousands of miles on mine, including lots of sketch riding/descending, and never thought that. Yes, itís got a 71-degree HA, but itís a racy, XC geometry, and you just need to be prepared to deal with whatever the terrain presents. NBD; itís riding.

    The new OpTi has true ďtrailĒ geometry, with a 68.5-degree HA and shorter chainstays, and itís stable and fun as fvck. Iíve got a Fox 34 120 mm fork on it, and it can do it all. I actively switch between the three travel positions (open, trail, locked) constantly, depending on what is in front of me.

    My biggest question right now is the wheels and tires, since Iím new to 29+. Given my orientation (endurance XC), Iíve favored lighter tires with less rolling resistance. Iíve used Flow EXís for rims, because I hammer my wheels, and donít want issues (and Iíve broken Arches). On my first OpTi, after a ton of real-world experience and experimenting on the harsh terrain of AZ, I settled on Ikonís front and rear - 2.35 fr/2.20 r, and that proved to be the winning combo for me. On my new 29+ OpTi, I started with WTB Ranger 3.0ís on Flow MK3ís (i29mm), which was pushing it for that width on those rims. So I switched to Rekon 2.6ís, which are comfy, but draggy for my application. I will be going to an Ardent 2.4 in front and an Ikon 2.35 in back on the Flows, for races and long, ďdirt roadieĒ rides, but, and here is where it gets good for the new OpTi, I am building up a true ďplusĒ wheelset with sunRingle Duroc 40ís (i36mm) laced to I9ís, with an SS-specific rear. I plan on starting with the Ranger 3.0ís on that, and will see how it goes. I chose the Rangers over Bonti XR2ís (formerly Chupacabraís) because they perform similarly and are 1/3 the cost.

    Lastly, re Vassago and Tom, Tom bought out the brand, which had gone out of business, back in late-2012/early 2013. He is one guy, who was holding down another job, at the time, while he got Vassago retooled and going. He has since quit that job an is dedicated to Vassago. That said, he is one guy, and, as ARandomBiker said above in this thread, he rides a lot, races, attends races and sets up shop to support Vassago riders and wave the flag. He is very passionate and involved, and also recently got married. Did I also mention that he is one guy? Yes, the website can be wonky and/or out of date, and Tom can be slow to reply sometimes, but you just need to stay with it. ďBut itís a businessĒ, you say, and ďYou canít run a business like thatĒ. Well, whatever; he makes it work. Just be patient, and youíll get great bikes and great support. Make sure to hit him up via e-mail (tament@vassagocycles.com) and Facebook (Tom Vassago), and there is also a Facebook page for the Vassago Legion. And stay on him, as he may miss it or forget about it because...see above, and did I mention heís one guy.

    Jeezus, this got LONG! How bout some pics...Iíll post some next.


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  22. #122
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    New OpTi 29+


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  23. #123
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  24. #124
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  25. #125
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    Original OpTi


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  26. #126
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  27. #127
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    My Vassago Verhauen in custom gray.

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-img_2677.jpg
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    My Vassago Verhauen in custom gray.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Joe, I see also have a Highball. I have mine set up SS (aluminum frame). How'd you compare it handling wise to your Verhauen? Looking for something less XC'ish for my next SS.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonicks View Post
    Hi Joe, I see also have a Highball. I have mine set up SS (aluminum frame). How'd you compare it handling wise to your Verhauen? Looking for something less XC'ish for my next SS.
    My highball is carbon and the 2012 model with 120 mm fork. The Verhauen runs a 100 mm fork. I have them setup to both handle the same at least to my feeling. Same tires on both bikes and same cockpit arrangement. Geometry is different, but still feel the same. Verhauen has longer Top tube, but steeper head angle. The differece is in the feel, weight and gears. The highball is geared, but lighter 21.5lbs since it has alot of carbon and high end parts (XX1, XTR, etc). The Verhauen is steel and aluminum and is 24lbs. The Verhauen is smoother and more of a sweet ride. The Highball is fast and fast over distance. I race the verhauen because I am racing singlespeed this year, but the highball is faster.

    As for twichy... I don't find either bike twitchy. Both are very good bikes and confidence inspiring. I can't charge some downhill as fast as I can on my 5" Santa Cruz 5010, but that is due to the lack of rear suspension and lack of dropper post. If I have fast tight bench cut downhill where one wrong turn sends me over the edge I am on my 2 HT bikes without a doubt.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    New OpTi 29+


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    I thought I was the only guy who rode that far out on hawes

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driverfound337 View Post
    I thought I was the only guy who rode that far out on hawes
    LOL...weíre calling that ďTRW OutersĒ, and that spiderweb of new trails has been getting a ton of traffic recently. Some fun stuff, and nice way to add some miles.


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  32. #132
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    Convert here also, though I wish the paint did not chip so easily. Edit: Had to remove the picture since it had gears for an upcoming bikepacking trip. Singlespeed forum
    Last edited by kustomz; 03-26-2018 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Photo

  33. #133
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    where are you guys buying your bikes?

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowride454 View Post
    where are you guys buying your bikes?
    Direct from Tom at Vassago. tament@vassagocycles.com, or message Tom Vassago on Facebook. Don't use the info@vassagocycles email address.
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  35. #135
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    I bought mine from a local dealer here in Austin, Cycle Progression. I highly recommend the black decals on a black frame, very stealth.
    Austin Mountain Biking and worldwide travel pictures:

    http://www.austinbike.com

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by austin_bike View Post
    I highly recommend the black decals on a black frame, very stealth.
    Couldn't agree more.

    My Verhauen:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I have seen the light... Vassago convert-452e40fe-3f6b-4bfb-84e9-287c3ca66232.jpg  

    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  37. #137
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    Yep, that looks like mine. Put a fox on the front and a dropper post on it, change the bling to red, and we're there.

    Like it so much I am thinking that maybe I also need a Verhauen geared hardtail.
    Austin Mountain Biking and worldwide travel pictures:

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  38. #138
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    Here's my Verhauen, it's the only picture that I have of it so far, I've been too busy riding it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I have seen the light... Vassago convert-ss.jpg  

    Last edited by LuckyCharm4x4; 04-05-2018 at 11:36 AM.

  39. #139
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    My Verhauen with Fox 32 SC and 3 bottle mounts. Finished from a 40 mile race.

    Last edited by JoePAz; 04-06-2018 at 08:58 AM.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Direct from Tom at Vassago. tament@vassagocycles.com, or message Tom Vassago on Facebook. Don't use the info@vassagocycles email address.
    thank you. he replied to my e-mail. I just need to decide if I'm going to wait a couple months.

  41. #141
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    I put a boinger on mine. And ditched the plus wheels.

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-img-3699-copy.jpg

    Still getting little details sorted, but man do I love this thing! I know some folks dig 29+, but I feel so much more cornering grip with Forekaster 2.35s. The 3.0 Rangers slid around too much for me. Į\_(ツ)_/Į
    Last edited by heartland; 04-11-2018 at 09:22 AM.
    "Never trust a man in a blue trench coat. Never drive a car when you're dead." -- Tom Waits

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Attachment 1153103
    Attachment 1153104

    dropouts and axle are meh, but they look like they will definitely do the job.
    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    "Dropouts and axle are meh, but they look like the will definitely do the job"

    Blame Paragon Machine Works. Vassago just welds them to the end of the stays.
    old news, but I just emailed PMW to ask about replacement bolts for the sliders on my Jabberwocky. I sent them these photos and they said that these are not their product.

    I can't find anything on Vassago's website that says they use a PMW product. The specs on the Vehauen says "USA Made sliding dropouts compatible with Paragon sliding inserts." PMW might object to that language. these sliders are fine, but I just wanted some better bolts as mine are rusting.
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  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    old news, but I just emailed PMW to ask about replacement bolts for these sliders. I sent them these photos and they said that these are not their product.

    I can't find anything on Vassago's website that says they use a PMW product. The specs on the Vehauen says "USA Made sliding dropouts compatible with Paragon sliding inserts." PMW might object to that language. these sliders are fine, but I just wanted some better bolts as mine are rusting.
    Those pictures are of the Jabber, Not the VerHauen. The Verhauen uses paragon sliders. The Jabber does not, and it does not say it does anywhere on the website. Just sayin. Having said that... I owned a jabber that had those sliders and was able to use the paragon bolts just fine. They were about 1mm too long, but that did not cause any issues, YMMV.
    "You either want to or you don't."

  44. #144
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    I just walked out to my garage and grabbed the Ďstockí PMW bolts from my Verhauen off my bench, they threaded right into the 135qr sliders that were leftover from when I had a Jabberwocky. I recently replaced the stock ones with the swanky Ti ones that can be tightened with a socket because I swap cogs frequently and didnít want to accidentally strip the hex head.

    Theyíre damned expensive, but IMO, worth every penny.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbyte View Post
    Those pictures are of the Jabber, Not the VerHauen. The Verhauen uses paragon sliders. The Jabber does not, and it does not say it does anywhere on the website. Just sayin. Having said that... I owned a jabber that had those sliders and was able to use the paragon bolts just fine. They were about 1mm too long, but that did not cause any issues, YMMV.
    thanks for the verification about PMW bolts.

    I know those are photos of a Jabber, because I took those photos of my Jabberwocky. I was updating this because someone in this thread told me specifically that the sliders in the frame are PMW and I was clarifying that is not the case, verified by PMW.

    I might be interested in replacing these sliders with PMW sliders if their design somehow allows me to slide my dropouts in another 1/4" or so. there's plenty of room for my tires. I might just buy the nicer bolts though.

    I am not so sure that the Vehauen uses PMW sliders or dropouts either. they might have at one time, but the current website info does not say that.
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  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    thanks for the verification about PMW bolts.

    I know those are photos of a Jabber, because I took those photos of my Jabberwocky. I was updating this because someone in this thread told me specifically that the sliders in the frame are PMW and I was clarifying that is not the case, verified by PMW.

    I might be interested in replacing these sliders with PMW sliders if their design somehow allows me to slide my dropouts in another 1/4" or so. there's plenty of room for my tires. I might just buy the nicer bolts though.

    I am not so sure that the Vehauen uses PMW sliders or dropouts either. they might have at one time, but the current website info does not say that.
    Ok, if you say so. I am so glad I do not own a bike company.
    "You either want to or you don't."

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbyte View Post
    Ok, if you say so. I am so glad I do not own a bike company.
    I didn't say so, Vassago said it and Paragon Machine Works confirmed it.

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-verhauen.jpg

    where does it say that the Verhauen actually uses a Paragon product?
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  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I didn't say so, Vassago said it and Paragon Machine Works confirmed it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    where does it say that the Verhauen actually uses a Paragon product?
    I am so confused. What was your question again?
    "You either want to or you don't."

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    I was so excited when I saw this thread was bolded cuz I was figuring I'd see some sweet new Vassago builds! Maybe next time.

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    sorry about that. here's a Texas tradition: photos of your loved ones among bluebonnets.

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-20180331_155855.jpg

    in the past few months, this bike has worn three different seatposts, two kinds of pedals, two gear combos, two saddles, three tire combos, two forks, and three handlebars. I can't make up my mind.

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-20180429_182618.jpg

    dropper post, what!?
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 05-10-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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    Yes! And bonus bluebonnets (my sis is in Texas and I see these kinds of pics a lot). These bikes look so good. Especially as singlespeeds.

  52. #152
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    Here is my Mooseknuckle all enduro bro'ed out:

    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-mooseknuckleendurobro.jpg
    "You either want to or you don't."

  53. #153
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    regarding bolts....

    Vassago does have a Ti bolt kit for about $17 for a set of 4 shipped.

    if you want to use PMW hardware, you'll want part MS0032 or MS0033.

    that's what Tom told me. I currently have a rounded out bolt on my jabber that i'll need to extract and replace at some point. i'll def be upgrading to the ti bolts...prolly spring for the PMW.
    i will not yield to DH traffic.

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    Momentary identity crisis:
    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-b3c0efab-39ed-4bd6-a84a-b66bcd70712b.jpg

    Yeah, thatís a dropper on my rigid singlespeed.
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Momentary identity crisis:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah, thatís a dropper on my rigid singlespeed.
    Heathen!!

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    My new Optimus build. She trying to look Sexy

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    anyone ever get accurate reach and stack measurements from Vassago? I messaged them the other day but I think I asked previously and recieved now answer. I am doing an experiment with fit and bike geometry but it's hard to do without a baseline.

    I beleive the reach for a medium is about 438mm and the stack is about 600mm based on plugging in numbers on bikegeo.net but it would be nice to hear what measurements Vassago used to design the frame.
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  58. #158
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    According to the website (I own one and this is what I have been going off of in comparing various bikes)...


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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    According to the website (I own one and this is what I have been going off of in comparing various bikes)...
    Thanks, where did you get that geo chart? link?

    I think that is the Verhauen geo, not the Jabber. They are close but not the same. It's also based on a "120mm sagged 20% with 2.3 tires". I have a Vassago rigid fork with a A-C that's 20mm shorter, so those numbers are still irrelevant to me. I can probably sort out the correct numbers based on that if I had Jabber figures, but I don't see why they have never gotten around to just putting the S&R for the Jabber on their site.
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    It's on their main page for the Jabber: JabberWocky Frame

    Just select "Geometry." They show it with both 120 and 100 mm forks. The latter should be exact to your 480 mm rigid fork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akindofbrian View Post
    It's on their main page for the Jabber: JabberWocky Frame

    Just select "Geometry." They show it with both 120 and 100 mm forks. The latter should be exact to your 480 mm rigid fork.
    where do you see the reach and stack numbers? again they publish the R&T for the Verhauen but not the Jabber. However, they might be identical, or close enough. I used to be able to calculate that stuff on https://bikegeo.muha.cc but that site appears to be down.


    I have seen the light... Vassago convert-jabber.jpg
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:03 PM.
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  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Thanks, where did you get that geo chart? link?

    I think that is the Verhauen geo, not the Jabber. They are close but not the same. It's also based on a "120mm sagged 20% with 2.3 tires". I have a Vassago rigid fork with a A-C that's 20mm shorter, so those numbers are still irrelevant to me. I can probably sort out the correct numbers based on that if I had Jabber figures, but I don't see why they have never gotten around to just putting the S&R for the Jabber on their site.
    Sorry...I misunderstood. That was the Optimus Ti geo chart that I posted. I see youíve found where the others are. I canít speak to the Reach and Stack figures.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    where do you see the reach and stack numbers? again they publish the R&T for the Verhauen but not the Jabber.

    [/ATTACH]
    Touche! Totally not there! I think I must just look at the Verhauen all the time and figured for sure it would be the same as the Jabber.

    As you said, probably close enough (especially when using the alternative calculators).

    Sorry for adding to the confusion.

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