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  1. #1
    ballbuster
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    Hope SS hub drag

    Is there any way (except for replacing it with a DT Swiss.... not gonna happen, I'm broke) to get my Hope Pro2 SS freehub bearing from dragging so much? I tried tapping the bearings from the inside a bit to loosen them up, and that didn't do much. Worked on my Hope XC hub. Seems to me this is like a bearing preload kinda issue, but of course there is no real adjustment for that other than lightly tapping the bearings around.

    The drag was so bad that if I spun the rear wheel, it would turn the cranks around, and I could actually slow the rear wheel down and stop it by resisting the pedals. I mean, it's not 'bad' bad, I just think they should be able to be as free running as say a $30 shimano hub (and yes, I know this hub is way beefier than Shimano) or at least in the ballpark.

    I also cleaned out the freehub pawls and springs really well, then repacked it with a minimal amount of the lightest grease I could find.

    The bearings seem to be in good shape. If I pull it apart, each bearing cartridge turns silky smooth. Together with the bolts tightened, it drags. I got the hub used with zero miles on it.

    Any other Hope Pro2 'tricks' to help out? Should I think about (hybrid) ceramic bearings?

    *edit*

    I read through this thread:

    Hope Pro II rebuild pics

    No real insight there. I did make sure the freehub seal was fully seated.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 09-24-2010 at 08:57 AM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    Is it brand new? If so, it might just need time to break in.

  3. #3
    ballbuster
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    New-ish

    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    Is it brand new? If so, it might just need time to break in.
    I bought it in March or so. I put around 300 miles on it. I would think that is enough break-in time, but I dunno. :shrug:

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    Is there any way (except for replacing it with a DT Swiss.... not gonna happen, I'm broke) to get my Hope Pro2 SS freehub bearing from dragging so much? I tried tapping the bearings from the inside a bit to loosen them up, and that didn't do much. Worked on my Hope XC hub. Seems to me this is like a bearing preload kinda issue, but of course there is no real adjustment for that other than lightly tapping the bearings around.

    The drag was so bad that if I spun the rear wheel, it would turn the cranks around, and I could actually slow the rear wheel down and stop it by resisting the pedals. I mean, it's not 'bad' bad, I just think they should be able to be as free running as say a $30 shimano hub (and yes, I know this hub is way beefier than Shimano) or at least in the ballpark.

    I also cleaned out the freehub pawls and springs really well, then repacked it with a minimal amount of the lightest grease I could find.

    The bearings seem to be in good shape. If I pull it apart, each bearing cartridge turns silky smooth. Together with the bolts tightened, it drags. I got the hub used with zero miles on it.

    Any other Hope Pro2 'tricks' to help out? Should I think about (hybrid) ceramic bearings?

    *edit*

    I read through this thread:

    Hope Pro II rebuild pics

    No real insight there. I did make sure the freehub seal was fully seated.
    I think what your talking about is not bearing drag, but drag from the freehub mechanism. You say that when you stip the wheel, it starts the crank spinning, so to me that sounds like the freehub. Try this: Take the chain off and then spin the wheel. What happens?

    I have a Hope SS rear hub and have not seen this issue.

    Mark

  5. #5
    ballbuster
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    Well, I know if I did that...

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I think what your talking about is not bearing drag, but drag from the freehub mechanism. You say that when you stip the wheel, it starts the crank spinning, so to me that sounds like the freehub. Try this: Take the chain off and then spin the wheel. What happens?

    I have a Hope SS rear hub and have not seen this issue.

    Mark
    ... the cog would turn with the wheel. The wheel would have some drag on it, but less. I'm pretty sure the majority of the drag is from the freehub bearings, but I'm open to suggestions. The bearings just feel overly tight.

    I supposed I could try removing the pawls completely from the hub and put it all back together to isolate if its a pawl/ratchet kinda issue or a bearing issue. Kind of a moderate PITA, but all in the name of science, right?

    Once nice thing about Hope hubs is that they are easy to strip down and put back together.

    Anyway, I got a call into Hope Tech Support, waiting for a call back. I'll see what they say.

  6. #6
    ballbuster
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    I talked to the Hope tech. He says I may have the freehub to hub shell hard plastic seal installed backwards. The groove is supposed to face out, and I'm pretty sure it is facing in. I'll look at it when I get home.

    I suppose I could also try assembling it without the seal, and see if the drag goes away (and no, I would not ride it like that).
    Last edited by pimpbot; 09-24-2010 at 10:44 AM.

  7. #7
    Bike Snob
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    Is there any way (except for replacing it with a DT Swiss.... not gonna happen, I'm broke) .
    DT Swiss roll really well but I just replaced my 240 with a Pro 2 after going thru 5 sets of bearings in 5 months. DT Swiss was non responsive to my problem BTW.

  8. #8
    Xtreme Lounger
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    deleted. nothing to see here ... please advance to the next reply.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    Is there any way (except for replacing it with a DT Swiss.... not gonna happen, I'm broke) to get my Hope Pro2 SS freehub bearing from dragging so much? I tried tapping the bearings from the inside a bit to loosen them up, and that didn't do much. Worked on my Hope XC hub. Seems to me this is like a bearing preload kinda issue, but of course there is no real adjustment for that other than lightly tapping the bearings around. .
    Hey pimpbot, I had a similar situation, although I didn't take the time to isolate which bearings were dragging. I think you're onto something with the preload diagnosis. In my case, I had to tighten the sh*t out of the bolt to keep the hub from moving in my horizontal dropouts. With the bolts tightened that tight, I got the wheel drag - the thing wouldn't spin for 5 seconds.

    I got one of those devices that keep the hub from moving forward in the dropout (e.g. Surly tugnut). This allowed me to not have to tighten the bolts so tight and the drag went away.

    Hope this helps. Post up what the tech guy tells you.

    E

  10. #10
    ballbuster
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    He didn't tell me much

    Quote Originally Posted by theycallmeE
    Hey pimpbot, I had a similar situation, although I didn't take the time to isolate which bearings were dragging. I think you're onto something with the preload diagnosis. In my case, I had to tighten the sh*t out of the bolt to keep the hub from moving in my horizontal dropouts. With the bolts tightened that tight, I got the wheel drag - the thing wouldn't spin for 5 seconds.

    I got one of those devices that keep the hub from moving forward in the dropout (e.g. Surly tugnut). This allowed me to not have to tighten the bolts so tight and the drag went away.

    Hope this helps. Post up what the tech guy tells you.

    E
    Basically, he says I have the freehub/hub body seal on backwards. Honestly, I haven't had the time to take a look. I'm not convinced it's the source of the drag.

    My Hope XC hub on my geared bike was kinda draggy too. I took it apart one time to inspect the parts, and when I tapped the bearings back in, I think I put them in too tightly. Same thing... super draggy. I tapped one of the bearings out just a micron or two, and it spun much more freely, but still draggier than other hubs I've owned (Real, Shimnao, Sunrace, Campy... well, nobody beats Campy)

    My SS has traditional dropouts with an EBB. I don't think I'm hammering down on the allen bolts too much, but I'll mess with that as well. Good point. I was thinking of converting over to a QR anyway.

  11. #11
    ballbuster
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    Removed seal, still draggy. Didn't make a difference. This seal has no groove as the Hope tech says.

    Gonna go remove the pawls.

  12. #12
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    I've got Hope SS hubs on 2 bikes, & when I'm off the bike & pushing, the pedals will sometimes turn rather than the freewheel kicking in.
    I don't think it's anything to do with the bearings, I think it's the heavy duty trials freewheel mechanism just has a bit more drag than a standard hub.
    Remember these are made for trials riding, so they need stronger pawls & springs.
    I have never noticed this when actually pedalling, or when freewheeling on the bike, so I see it as a characteristic of the hub rather than a problem.

  13. #13
    - factotum -
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    My proII trials hub does the same. I don't think it's a problem when coasting since one of the 10 laws of singlespeed states "Thou shalt not coast!" anyways.

    No really: My hub developed some loose bearings after about 2000km. The cranks still turn a bit, when I push the bike - which of course happens only when getting the bike out of the shed...

  14. #14
    MTB B'dos
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    OK, didn't go through all replies, but I highly doubt you put the seal on backwards - it's kind of obvious If it's so you can't tighten the bolts right down hard, then this is what you did............What I think you might have done is put the washer that goes between the freehub body and hub on backwards - very easy to do if you don't look closely - as both sides are indented to fit the inner race of the bearings of the freehub and the hub.

    I know, as I have to admit, I did this myself and couldn't figure out why I couldn't tighten the bolts up evenly and as tight as before, upon closer inspection I saw the difference in the washer, installed it correctly and voila, torqe away
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  15. #15
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    pimpbot - Did you ever resolve this? I bought Hope Pro 2 SS hub last year and after a few hundred miles, still drags like crazy. Pushing my bike, the cranks always turn. I first thought I had the chain tension too tight, then I rebuilt the hub, made sure everything was greased up ok, got the spacer in the right place, and seated the FW seal. I also believe this is a FW issue. It is just super draggy.

  16. #16
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    Try changing the grease to something thinner or even a thick oil. I've not experienced my cranks turning if I push my bike and I've been on this hub for 5 years nearly now. Know one thing for sure, won't go back to a full freehub unless it's a 150mm hub, chainline just sucks running a 50mm crank chainline and full 8/9/10 spd freehub. You could check out the Nukeproof Generator SC hub, I have the normal Generator hub now for over 6 months and very pleased with it, mayb the SC version myself, although I want a blue hub.
    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    pimpbot - Did you ever resolve this? I bought Hope Pro 2 SS hub last year and after a few hundred miles, still drags like crazy. Pushing my bike, the cranks always turn. I first thought I had the chain tension too tight, then I rebuilt the hub, made sure everything was greased up ok, got the spacer in the right place, and seated the FW seal. I also believe this is a FW issue. It is just super draggy.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  17. #17
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    My trials/SS Hope has been draggy ever since I got it. Loud as f*** too. It's going off of my SS trail bike and back on to my trialsy bike. Hadley will be going on the trail bike.

    As an Assad:
    While trying to figure out how poorly the Hope coasted compared to a 240, I did a less than scientifically sound experiment by trying to spin them at the same speed and see how long they would coast. No difference. At least no difference compared with my ability to spin the wheels consistently at the same speed. This coincides with what a guy who works for Salsa said. He said don't worry about the drag. I haven't yet fully agreed with him, even though he knows more than me.

    Steve
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  18. #18
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    Thanks to both of you for the input. I'll try a thinner grease, but looks like I'll just have to live with it.

  19. #19
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    My Hope SS hub did this as well as killed drive side bearings. The drag never went away even after thousands of miles.
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  20. #20
    nothing to see here
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    Pics of the interfaces between hub/freehub/end caps/bearings/seals etc would be handy for this thread.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  21. #21
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    pimpbot - Did you ever resolve this? I bought Hope Pro 2 SS hub last year and after a few hundred miles, still drags like crazy. Pushing my bike, the cranks always turn. I first thought I had the chain tension too tight, then I rebuilt the hub, made sure everything was greased up ok, got the spacer in the right place, and seated the FW seal. I also believe this is a FW issue. It is just super draggy.
    I ended up replacing all of the bearing cartridges (except for the middle freehub roller bearing) with some Chinese ABEC5 bearings off fleabay. I bought a bunch of bearing cartridges for like $25, so I got a lifetime supply.

    It's a lot less draggy now, but still draggier than my DT240s on another bike. I just think Hope is filling their bearings with some crazy thick grease. Once the bearings were out, I could feel they were silky smooth (as in, not dirty or gritty), but still pretty draggy. I also think Hope hubs are prone to too much bearing preload and/or improper pressing in when built. I've had issues with draggy Hope hubs that were solved by removing the bearings and re-pressing them in more squarely.

    I know the drag is minimal compared to tire rolling resistance, wind resistance, etc. It just bugged me on a molecular level that there was that much more drag for no good reason.

  22. #22
    local trails rider
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    Cranks turning with the wheel?
    Doesn't sound familiar - or right. I'd pull off the freehub, remove pawls and springs, clean everything and put it back together. The grease that I've used isn't particularly thin either.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  23. #23
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime View Post
    Cranks turning with the wheel?
    Doesn't sound familiar - or right. I'd pull off the freehub, remove pawls and springs, clean everything and put it back together. The grease that I've used isn't particularly thin either.
    I did all of that and it was still draggy. I got the hub used off a guy who just bought the wrong hub. He told me it sat in his garage for years become he sold it to me through craigslist. I just have a feeling the grease thickened up.

  24. #24
    local trails rider
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    ... and I think you know enough not to run the chain too tight either.
    Anyway, I have 2 Hope Pro2 SS/Trials hubs, and have never experienced cranks turning with the wheel with them. I've had them for many years but don't keep track of my mileage.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  25. #25
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime View Post
    ... and I think you know enough not to run the chain too tight either.
    Anyway, I have 2 Hope Pro2 SS/Trials hubs, and have never experienced cranks turning with the wheel with them. I've had them for many years but don't keep track of my mileage.
    My cranks aren't turning anymore, but the hub is draggier than any of my other hubs.

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