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  1. #1
    SS XC Junkie
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    Upset Freewheel Installation Mistake - Don't Do This

    I made a serious blunder. No one to blame but myself on this one. Had a set of chub hubs built up on Gordo wheels. Awesome combo. Added a WI Eno freewheel and it was nice set of SS wheels.

    In my haste to get these wheels out on the trail I neglected one little thing - I didn't put anti siege on the hub/freewheel when I screwed on the FW. Long story short, my WI freewheel is now locked on the chub hub - I'm afraid this is a permanent thing.

    Neither me nor the LBS can get it off. In a vice, with a wrench, using several different FW removal tools - this bad boy isn't coming off...

    Lesson learned, use anti siege when installing a freewheel.

  2. #2
    meatier showers
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    Oooooo, bummer! Maybe a liberal application of hardcore penetrating lube? That is such a nice wheel combo... I guess it wouldn't be bad to be "permanently stuck" with it (yes it would); eventually you'll want at what you can't get to. Meanwhile, as we all know if you're to try something, time is of the essence since it'll only get worse.

    Good luck, and please post up if you're able to undo it.

    -Sparty

    P.S. Thanks for posting. Cruising MTBR's forums is my whole life right now... again, best of luck.
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  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Cruising MTBR's forums is my whole life right now...
    What happened?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
    meatier showers
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    What happened?
    Just day 5 of the flu... sorry to cause alarm without a good crash story!

    --Sparty
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    you wanted to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat
    Jaybo... quit *****ing and move to Texas

  5. #5
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    I did the same thing with a cog on a paul hub. it's been locked up that way for 6 or 7 years, i tried and tried to get it off, broke a chain whip, and finally gave up. now i just use the wheel for fixed gear riding in the snow.

    but getting a freewheel off might be a bit easier. multiple doses of penetrating oil is a good idea (over days), and then going back to extenders or the vice for leverage might work.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Oooooo, bummer! Maybe a liberal application of hardcore penetrating lube? That is such a nice wheel combo... I guess it wouldn't be bad to be "permanently stuck" with it (yes it would); eventually you'll want at what you can't get to. .
    The good thing, I can simply change the front chainring to a 34. Not what I want to do BUT it gives me some options. I'm going to talk to the guys at WI and at TheHive next week and see if they have any suggestions.

  7. #7
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    Went out and took some pics.




  8. #8
    Making fat cool since '71
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    (your LBS has probably tried this, but...) when I worked at an LBS and this would come in I would "lock" the FW removal tool onto the hub using a bolt screwed into the hub (or through if not a bolt on) and a big washer on the outside of the FW tool. It sandwhiches it on and will not allow the slippage you have experienced. You can only unscrew it a bit at a time and release pressure on the washer/bolt "assembly" bit by bit until you can get the FW off "normally." A breaker bar, some PB Blaster (or other penetrating agent), some cursing usually and voila...FW is off. I've had some be stubborn, but I've never been beaten doing it this way. I used to use silver anti-seize but some old school wrenches convinced me to just use good ol' fashioned grease (Phil's is what's in my "shop" at home).

    Good Luck!

    Brock...
    Are the wheels roundish? Ride it.

    Disciples Of Dirt, come ride with us.

  9. #9
    Duckin' Fonuts.
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    Lock the tool on with a bolt and washer as described. Use a small enough washer that a 1" socket will still fit the tool. Use an impact wrench to burp the fw loose. Remember don't go too far because the tool is bolted to the hub. I have used this method to remove stuck freewheels from trials cranks and independent coasting tandem crank arms.

  10. #10
    I like to ride my bike
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    Thanks for the warning, I'll be doing this same thing in a few days and had no idea that I needed to lube it up first.

    What kind of lubrication do you guys recommend? (insert jokes here)

  11. #11
    human dehumidifier
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    It'll hurt, but maybe you could take the freewheel apart and use a pipe wrench on what's left. I've had to do that plenty of times with cheap freewheels.
    I may or may not be laughing at you.

  12. #12
    meatier showers
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    Either Phil's or boat trailer wheel bearing grease.

    --Sparty
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat
    Jaybo... quit *****ing and move to Texas

  13. #13
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    There are a couple of options. Penetrating lube first. Then bolt the FW tool on. I like the ACS one with the big bar attached already. You just want to break it free, then it will come off with ease. Don't apply even pressure. You want to use more of a jerking motion. That is why impacts work so well. You are less likely to strip anything. Sometimes it is easier to put the tool in the vice and turn the wheel. It has more leverage.

    The next option is to disassemble the freewheel and clamp it in the vice and rotate the wheel.

  14. #14
    Self-defeatist
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_bob
    It'll hurt, but maybe you could take the freewheel apart and use a pipe wrench on what's left. I've had to do that plenty of times with cheap freewheels.
    Been there. It sucks, but it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker
    You just want to break it free, then it will come off with ease. Don't apply even pressure. You want to use more of a jerking motion.
    This is VERY good advice. Heed it.

    I went through this recently (though I greased) and understand what you mean by 'ramps;' they just guide/drive the tool up and out no matter how tightly you clamp it down.

    Also, try a couple of different freewheel removers. It turned out that my tool (no laughing) was a slightly larger diameter than the notches in the freewheel, so there wasn't full contact between the two metals. My LBS's tool (Park) was built to better tolerance, and did the job in the end.

    Good luck.

    C.
    I'm covered in beer.

  15. #15
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    what I would do, because this happened to me with a ENO freewheels vs ENO hub...

    A shop vice and tool won't work for this application. Not enough leverage.
    What works...

    Have a big buddy sit on the wheel (wheel's got to be vertical, with a tire, and fully inflated.) Then, have the freewheel tool setup with a crescent wrench...said crescent wrench needs to have a pipe on the end...a looong pipe to use as a cheater bar for long leverage. Put your weight on it and it should come off smoothly.

    I do use a ENO freewheel tool which interfaces and locks on the freewheel very solid.

  16. #16
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    Penetrating oil and a gear puller???
    Edit. Forget that stupid idea

  17. #17
    meatier showers
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    Quote Originally Posted by victim
    Penetrating oil and a gear puller???
    Edit. Forget that stupid idea
    Close. Penetrating oil and beer.

    You almost had it.

    --Sparty
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    you wanted to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat
    Jaybo... quit *****ing and move to Texas

  18. #18
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    the White Ind freewheel tool is worth its weight in gold, but one and use an old QR to hold it on than get a buddy to hold the wheel vert, than get a long wrench and stand on the wrench, as cyclists we have much more leg power than arm power
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  19. #19
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    ... sorry to cause alarm without a good crash story!
    Oh, I figured it had something to do with a certain keg system...

    Never mind.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  20. #20
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    Crush the freewheel in a vice and spin it off.Brutal but it works and i have done it quite a few times.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    what I would do, because this happened to me with a ENO freewheels vs ENO hub...

    A shop vice and tool won't work for this application. Not enough leverage.
    What works...

    Have a big buddy sit on the wheel (wheel's got to be vertical, with a tire, and fully inflated.) Then, have the freewheel tool setup with a crescent wrench...said crescent wrench needs to have a pipe on the end...a looong pipe to use as a cheater bar for long leverage. Put your weight on it and it should come off smoothly.

    I do use a ENO freewheel tool which interfaces and locks on the freewheel very solid.
    +1. I've used this method and have always enjoyed success. Try a one-meter cheater bar; I got a section of pipe from home depot that slid over the end of the adjustable wrench. Like taking candy from a baby...

    Joe
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    Joe Partridge

  22. #22
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    The problem is that the ENO freewheel removal tool won't fit. The chub caps are to fat and stick out far enough that the tool won't set down on the freewheel. I can't take the caps off because they hit on the freewheel. So I'm stuck with the park tool the LBS had 2 different Park FW removers.

    My buddy has a CNC milling machine so maybe I'll see if he can modify my ENO tool by chewing out the center of it so it will slide on. Outside of that, I'm stuck with using the park tool. With that being said, I'll just live with the 19t for now.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontheclysdale
    The problem is that the ENO freewheel removal tool won't fit. The chub caps are to fat and stick out far enough that the tool won't set down on the freewheel. I can't take the caps off because they hit on the freewheel. So I'm stuck with the park tool the LBS had 2 different Park FW removers.

    My buddy has a CNC milling machine so maybe I'll see if he can modify my ENO tool by chewing out the center of it so it will slide on. Outside of that, I'm stuck with using the park tool. With that being said, I'll just live with the 19t for now.
    I would have your buddy machine out the white Ind tool.
    There is no need to waste a perfectly good ENO by crushing it in a vise, The FW is designed to be rebuilt on the hub. You can replace any part that may fail or wear out with out ever taking it off. If all you are looking to do is change tooth count, I would call White Ind and ask if you can just buy the tooth ring separately, that way you would could still change gearing with out having to pull your freewheel off. And the only tool needed would be the red Park pin spanner.

    No sense in crushing a White FW, if it was a Shimano or ACS than destroy that mutha
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  24. #24
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    scooter,

    I have two other WI freewheels so if taking it apart on the hub is an option, I have no problem what so ever. That's what I was going to talk to WI about tomorrow. The WI freewheel instructions say to take it off the hub first BUT if I can do it while still on the hub - ALL IS GREAT!

  25. #25
    mtbr member
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    the last time I rebuilt mine was just before SSWC09 and I'm pretty sure I did it on the wheel. But now that I am thinking I think I just left it on the hub to loosen the lockring than took it off to fully rebuild it.

    I was really impressed, 3 years of use, with some nasty muddy rides/races multiple hub deep creek crossings, when I pulled it apart it was brown inside but I pulled the bearing out and removed the seals, soaked it in cleanstreak, blew it out with an air compressor, repacked with Rock N' Roll super web grease, cleaned out the tooth ring and pawls with cleanstreak, than reassembled with Phil Tenacious oil and it felt brand new.
    I almost feel guilty for getting a new set of wheels that are cassette rear and not using WI FW on my new SS.
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

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