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  1. #1
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    Eccentric hub or BB?

    I'd like to get rid of my tensioner from my SS Cove Hummer (with vertical dropouts).

    Three main questions:

    1. Eccentric BB or eccentric hub?

    Since I can't find a magic gear I'm looking at an eccentric hub or maybe a bottom bracket.

    Changing the hub would mean I could move my geared (non SS) hub over to another bike, which is cool, but then I'd have to buy another front hub to make them match.

    The prices are about the same for each (White Industries), but when you add in the cost of the freewheel (and tool?) the BB is a lot cheaper.

    It seems to me either an eccentric BB or hub could slip. Is this something I should be worried about?

    Also, I can't see how either could take up enough slack. It seems that they could only accommodate a few mm of tension. What am I missing?

    2. How do I measure the BB?

    Changing the BB is a bit preferable to me, because I would still have matching hubs, but I need to know which to order (which size). Would the White BB fit? White Industries Bottom Bracket - Titanium 68mm x 113mm<BR>Free Shipping Worldwide: White Industries Bottom Brackets • Aspire VeloTech - Chris King World's Largest Dealer

    The measurements are 68x113 or 68x121.

    I can't tell exactly where the 113 and 121 measurements are. Does the BB width start from the inside of the chainring (on the drive side) and end about halfway through the crank of the non-drive side?

    If that's the case I'm looking at 113 I think. But more realistically it's 121, assuming that measurement ends at the outside of the crank. But I can't see how it could be 121 since when I look inside my crank the square end of the bb isn't there...

    Or possibly I need to measure from the outside of the drive side chainring?

    See pictures for clarification of question 2.

    3. What do I need to know about the White Industries hub?

    Engagement appears to be only 36 which isn't great coming from a King.

    Do I need the freewheel? Looks like it, and it seems it's a thread-on thing, which would render my nice new HBC cogs irrelevant. Plus it seems it would be more of a pain in the ass to change them - unlike swapping out a cog. White Industries

    How does this hub sound?

    Thanks for any help.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Eccentric hub or BB?-bb-meas1.jpg  

    Eccentric hub or BB?-bb-meas-2.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    the linked BB is NOT eccentric, and is for square tapered cranks. so, it will not act as a tensioner OR work on your current cranks.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishcreek View Post
    the linked BB is NOT eccentric, and is for square tapered cranks. so, it will not act as a tensioner OR work on your current cranks.
    Good point, shows what I know. Why did I think WI had an eccentric one? Phil Wood does: Phil Wood Philcentric Bottom Bracket Cup Set - British<br>Includes tools<br>Free Shipping Worldwide: Phil Wood Outboard Bottom Brackets • Aspire VeloTech - Chris King World's Largest Dealer

    But again, how do I know if it'll fit?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patterson View Post
    It seems to me either an eccentric BB or hub could slip. Is this something I should be worried about?
    I have 3 singlespeeds. Two have White Industry eccentric hubs. The other has an eccentric BB.

    So far, no problems with either the hubs or the BB slipping. For the record, the BB is a Rocky Mountain Hammer 29er which has the grub screw type locking for the BB shell. I haven't tried one of new fangled eccentric BBs that fit a standard shell though so can't help you with those.

    Keep the threads clean, grease 'em up and tighten them to specs. I hear you, they are worries I had myself but so far so good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patterson View Post
    Also, I can't see how either could take up enough slack. It seems that they could only accommodate a few mm of tension. What am I missing?
    What are you missing? Only faith in the method perhaps. The two eccentric hub bikes run 33/17 and 33/16, no problems with getting tension. However the 29er runs a 32/19 and I have the BB at the "longest" position and have just adequate tension. I tried dropping a pair of links and running the BB "back" but I didn't have enough chain then. I'm thinking of going for a 33/19 which would help me out there (as well as being a better gear for where I ride).

    So yeah, depending on your combo of gears and chainstay length, you might not be able to get enough tension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patterson View Post
    3. What do I need to know about the White Industries hub?

    Engagement appears to be only 36 which isn't great coming from a King.
    You're comparing the King which is a "cassette" style hub to the White which is a screw-on freewheel hub. Different animals. So basically the engagement with the White is dictated by the freewheel you buy and screw on.

    The White freewheels have 36 engagements but they do a trials version which has 72.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patterson View Post
    Do I need the freewheel? Looks like it, and it seems it's a thread-on thing, which would render my nice new HBC cogs irrelevant. Plus it seems it would be more of a pain in the ass to change them - unlike swapping out a cog.
    Yes, you need a freewheel. You don't need the White one though. The White ones are excellent, expensive, excellent, serviceable and excellent. You can also use any BMX type freewheel. I use Shimano DX or ACS Claws.

    Changing the cog is a PITA, yes. There is a special tool which clears the eccentric cap on the hub to remove the freewheel, but you can just remove the eccentric cap and use a regular freewheel tool. Sure, not as simple as a cassette style single speed hub.

    The other disadvantage with the eccentric hub is disc mounting. White has an eccentric disc mount which is great, it serves the purpose and isn't what I'd call inelegant, but it only works with certain styles of brake mounts and it isn't a 2 second job to set it up. Once set up, it's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patterson View Post
    How does this hub sound?
    Quite silent. Boom tish, thankyouverymuch!

    Sorry for the bad joke, hope the rest is of assistance.

    Grumps

  5. #5
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    I use an WI Eccentric ENO Hub on my Bontrager Race Light. It works well. The chain does loosen over time, but I'm pretty sure that's more of a product of chain stretch, rather than slippage. No problems with getting enough tension, though getting the perfect tension takes practice. I agree with some issues which have been addressed already.

    Freewheel: I use WI, which are bombproof but spendy. But since I'm riding a bike from 1996, I figure I'm allowed the indulgence. Overall the set up is a little heavy too. It would be nice to use a wheel with a freehub, so you can change gears without too much difficulty or expense. I have WI 16, 18, and 20 tooth freewheels, which I switch out depending on the race. I usually ride an 18 or 20 around Boulder because of all the climbing. I run a 34 on the front (the Bontrager is a 26er, of course) . Also be aware that the freewheel is really hard to remove if you've ridden it for a while, even with generous lubrication of the threads. I have to use a giant wrench, and then a 3 foot cheater bar over that to get enough leverage to pull off the freewheel. As far as chainline goes, I was worried about it at first because there is only one position for the threaded freewheel. But I run it through the middle chain ring, and it seems to be straight.

    Brakes: I run V-brakes, so I have to adjust the pads each time I change gear. Not a huge deal, but a bit annoying.

    Rim Choice: Since I run rim brakes and 26er, the choices are limited. I run a Mavic 717 with the ENO. Not the lightest or best, but it works.

    Fixing a flat: The tightening caps use a hex wrench. To make sure it doesn't slip, I tighten them a good amount with a long wrench. I got a flat at the 24 hours of Colorado Springs last fall toward the beginning of the race, and I couldn't get the bolts loosened with the smallish multi-tool I had with me. Fortunately, a bystander had a tool and a big pair of pliers. With a lot of grunting, I was finally able to get the bolts loosened and the tire changed. But I was in dead last place by about 10 minutes by that time. It may have worked out in the end since I just slowly rode the rest of the race thinking I was in last place the whole time. Turns out a bunch of the fast guys blew up trying to keep pace at the front, and I unwittingly snuck up to 5th.

    Thanks for the link to the Phil Wood bottom bracket. I might consider that when the brake surface on the rim finally wears through. I'd love to hear some feedback from anyone who has used the Phil Wood eccentric BB. Looks promising.
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  6. #6
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    Good job! Another Cove hardtail going SS )

    That's funny, because I decided to build up my old trusty Cove Handjob as a singlespeed. The frame has been gathering dust since summer 2009, and it's going to be 3rd incarnation. It rides brilliant, has genius geometry and weighs just 2 kg (so I don't really want a dedicated singlespeed frame).

    I too am facing the choice between ENO Eccentric and eccentric outboard BBs, of which just the Trickstuff Exzentriker and Phil Wood Philcentric are being offered currently.

    I had the opportunity to test WI eccentric adapter on my Transition Bank, that has eccentric dropouts. I set the adapter the first time and never adjusted it since. It's CNC machined with frame contact areas protruding outwards, so that it's compatible to what an IS mount facing tool does to the frame. I'm running a Hope Race V2 combo, which has the pads very close to rotor, and there's no rubbing even after removing and putting back the wheel. A sign of good alignment of parts.

    Being a weight weenie, I'm inclined towards Trickstuff. Two other advantages of EBBs over ENO is that they don't restrict your crankset chainline to 47.5 mm, and also your hub (freehub) choice, so that you can pick one from a large gamut ranging from silent, instant engagement and heavy (True Precision Poacher, as I did on my Bank), to light, quiet and few engagements (DT 240 SS).
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  7. #7
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    Have been using the Trickstuff Exzentriker on my MamaSSita since april, works great. Doesn't slip, easy to adjust but it requires a crank with removable granny gear spider. The granny tabs hit the excenter otherwise. I use the Race Face Turbine.
    Last edited by dmx1; 01-02-2012 at 02:22 AM.

  8. #8
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    Excellent answers, this covers most of what I needed to know.

    I errenously thought WI made an eccentric hub [EDIT - I meant BB, not hub] - appears I had been reading about the Trickstuff Exzentriker and somehow got confused.

    So thank you guys for reminding me!

    I love my King hubs and think I'd rather go with a BB like the Trickstuff Exzentriker. Should fit on my BB no?

    Trickstuff

    Trickstuff - Exzentriker orange, Auslaufmodell Exzentriker

    It's not really cheap though!
    Last edited by Patterson; 01-02-2012 at 10:21 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patterson View Post
    I love my King hubs and think I'd rather go with a BB like the Trickstuff Exzentriker. Should fit on my BB no?
    Well, if that's your frame and crankset photos in the first post, then yes. It will fit instead of your BB. I guess you'll have to reuse the plastic tube from your BB with Exzentriker, as these don't seem to ship with one. You'll also have to either file (grind) down your granny mounts or, if you don't want irreversible modifications, go with an external type, non-GXP crankset that either has no (protruding) granny mounts or they are removable.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Well, if that's your frame and crankset photos in the first post, then yes. It will fit instead of your BB. I guess you'll have to reuse the plastic tube from your BB with Exzentriker, as these don't seem to ship with one. You'll also have to either file (grind) down your granny mounts or, if you don't want irreversible modifications, go with an external type, non-GXP crankset that either has no (protruding) granny mounts or they are removable.
    Awesome advice, I'm learning a lot. What is GXP?
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  11. #11
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    GXP stands for Giga X Pipe and is Truvativ's take on 24 mm external BB cranksets. It has a different (and IMHO inferior) crank retention/bearing preload model than everyone else's 24 mm cranksets. Because of this difference, not all external BBs can be made (with reasonable effort) to support GXP cranks, although they all look very similar from outside.

    Usually an aftermarket manufacturer of 24 mm external BB explicitly says whether his product supports GXP, or comes in GXP version (examples: Chris King, Hope, Phil Wood Philcentric).
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Two other advantages of EBBs over ENO is that they don't restrict your crankset chainline to 47.5 mm, and also your hub (freehub) choice, so that you can pick one from a large gamut ranging from silent, instant engagement and heavy (True Precision Poacher, as I did on my Bank), to light, quiet and few engagements (DT 240 SS).
    I forgot to mention another constraint with the ENO, you can't run rotors less than 160 mm. Small rotors are becoming attractive (not as much for WW reasons, but for being more out of the way) as new, powerful and lightweight brakes keep appearing.

    But the ENO path surely is cheaper for those who have to build a new rear wheel anyway.
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  13. #13
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    Patterson, W.I. does most certainly make an eccentric hub as I own one. I would recommend one over a bottom bracket as bottom brackets tend to make too much noise. As for removing the free hub it's easier to place the tool in a vice, put the hub on the tool and turn the wheel to remove the free hub, piece of cake.You can't go wrong with White Industries Eno Eccentric, made in Sonoma County, the best place on earth.

  14. #14
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    SMT42, how are the bearings protected from water in WI ENO Eccentric hub? Is there an extra layer of sealing or they only rely on their own seals?
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