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  1. #1
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    More pics

    Phil custom hubs.
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    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  2. #2
    ogarajef@luther.edu
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    Wow that is crazy.. What is the benifit?
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  3. #3
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    Duel Drive Single Speed Funky Goodness

    Just thought you guys would think this was interisting. I am testing the bike now, my first off road ride will be tonight. It was built by a local shop he also has a 29er version with his own custom frame.
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    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  4. #4
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1
    Wow that is crazy.. What is the benifit?
    Maybe the guy has extremely strong legs, can out-squat an elephant, and eats single-sided drivetrains for lunch. Is that the same reason he's using road pedals also?

    My guess is he's doing it for shits and giggles. Is it freewheel or fixed?
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  5. #5
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    He-Man Legs

    I would like to think my He-Man legs would be the reason, but I was commuting home last night and my rear wheel crapped out on my road bike (that's the reason for the look keo pedals) and this is the bike I got to use until my wheel is repaired actually it's a blast to ride the first thing I noticed is how balanced it is when pedaling and how much power you can get from each pedal stroke on each side. It is freewheel. I will post a ride report after tonights ride.
    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  6. #6
    Cyclist
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    Would it eliminate the dead spot in the pedal stroke?

    Very funky. Can't wait to hear more...
    "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    My cycling photos. Enjoy!

  7. #7
    blame me for missed rides
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    um.....keo on a mtn bike?

  8. #8
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    crap...

    that bike's messing with my mind.

  9. #9
    Steel and teeth.
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    Did you have to reverse the engagement of the freewheel in order to use it for forward propulsion?

    b1umb0y

  10. #10
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    good question

    Quote Originally Posted by b1umb0y
    Did you have to reverse the engagement of the freewheel in order to use it for forward propulsion?

    b1umb0y
    and what's going on with that stem/spacers???

  11. #11
    Cold. Blue. Steel.
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    Interesting idea, but this comes to mind:

    ~ twice as expensive
    ~ twice as complicated
    ~ twice as heavy
    ~ twice the maintanance
    ~ two pant legs getting caught in the chain and/or two "Fred" tatoos on your calves!
    ~ at least twice as much difficulty removing rear wheel. can you imagine getting a rear flat during a race?

    That being said, I love fresh thinkers who are unafraid and I am curious about the ride report.
    OGG
    Spinning and Grinning...

  12. #12
    34N 118W
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    beat me to it

    I had the same idea for an ongoing project, although I ditched that for a left hand drivetrain....and fixie. The cog bolts to the disc rotor holes. Per Drevil, just for S&G. Pics whenever I finish it.

    Looks cool, one benefit is that you will ride more straight and not get that annoying "pull" to the right.

  13. #13
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    Race Redundancy! If a chain breaks or a freewheel fails, just keep going!

  14. #14
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    Loaner Bike

    I would like like to say once again this is not my doing. This is a loaner bike from the Slippery Pig bike shop. I am just riding/testing it I will get the details from Eric the owner and maker of this bike. I do know the rear phil hub is custom to run both freewheels I believe it is a reverse thread. Once again a ride report and tech specs later after I take this baby off road.
    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  15. #15
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1umb0y
    Did you have to reverse the engagement of the freewheel in order to use it for forward propulsion?

    b1umb0y
    I assumed it was an ACS Southpaw, or left hand drive freewheel.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  16. #16
    blame me for missed rides
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    there are left-hand drive BMX bikes, so parts are not a problem.

  17. #17
    75% Mountain cycle
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    twice the drag (friction)????

    Do you feel your pedaling against more friction or chain drag?

    I like it!!!!

  18. #18
    Steel and teeth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I assumed it was an ACS Southpaw, or left hand drive freewheel.
    Thanks for the heads up, I had not seen a freewheel like this before.

    b1umb0y

  19. #19
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    Flip flop

    This is not a standard flip flop hub if it was the left side freewheel would be working to pull itself loose I believe thats the reason for the reverse thread on the lefthand side of the hub.
    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  20. #20
    Sofa King We Todd Did
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    As far as the crank's concerned, the only thing to make this work is to slap the crankarm with the spider and chainring on the left side? Or does the bottom bracket factor into this? If that's the case, and one's using a cassette hub in the rear (so as not to have to worry about a freewheel unthreading itself), can one do this with pretty much any bike?

  21. #21
    blame me for missed rides
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    pedal threading is reversed. you have to use either a LHD crnakset or a tandem crankset if you do not plan to replace the pedal spindle. bottom bracket spindle is symmetrical.

    regular cassette hub wouldn't work because if you mount it drive side on the left, it freewheels in the wrong direction.

  22. #22
    Sofa King We Todd Did
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    Ahhh. Duh. I know that'd be too easy... Cheers!

  23. #23
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    Would be fun to put a "saw tooth" bash ring on both sides, and do some really clumsy log crossings...

  24. #24
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    ... and if we just ... I thought I recognized Erik's bike...

    I've ridden it before, just a parking lot ride, sweet bike. VERY stiff drivetrain, you pedal, you go. It has a unique feeling to it, that's for sure. As for why, its Erik...that should be reason enough!

    He's been wanting to do that for awhile now, its cool he was able to build it!

    Cheers,

    KavuRider
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  25. #25
    Recovering couch patato
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    With 2 stiff freewheels, it's almost like a coaster brake!

    He did it of course to always have a good picture of the bike, regardless the side you take the pic from, left or right.

    I've seen something similar once, reason was log riding?

    I wonder, when pedaling, are the two freewheels really engaging together?

  26. #26
    blame me for missed rides
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    they don't necessarily engage together. you can potentially half your engagement time.

  27. #27
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    There is ZERO chance they engage at once. AT BEST you get half the engagement time.

    A twin fixxy could be made to work, and that might be cool for heavy breaking through rough corners...maybe. This however was a total waste of money.

    Yeah, I'm slamming it.
    -Marshall Hance
    EndlessBikeCo.

  28. #28
    Cubicle Fugitive
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    I seriously question any marginal improvement in drivetrain performance, longevity, "stiffness", engagement time, or whatever other properties someone might want to attribute to dual set-ups like this.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by czardonic
    I seriously question any marginal improvement in drivetrain performance, longevity, "stiffness", engagement time, or whatever other properties someone might want to attribute to dual set-ups like this.
    Who let this guy in here?

    The bike isn't some kind of technical breakthrough. It does have some nice features though.

    It does have improved engagement, almost on par with a King. Since the load is shared between 2 sets of chainrings and cogs, longevity should be improved. Performance, lets just say pedaling it is more 'balanced', especially when you're riding w/o hands on the bars.

    I've ridden the bike more than once, and its just plain fun. Eric used a tandem crank for the LH drive and a special built hub. Flat tires are interesting, because you have to remember to put the wheel in the correct way. If not, it will pedal backward and freewheel forward.

    Eric didn't build the bike to set the world on fire or to prove that dual drive is better. He did it because it was a neat idea, it sounded like fun, and because he could. Isn't that what singlespeeding is about?

    On another note, he's a helluva great guy who would bend over backwards to help someone out.
    Last edited by funboarder1971; 06-29-2005 at 07:11 PM.

  30. #30
    Retrograde Customs
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1umb0y
    Did you have to reverse the engagement of the freewheel in order to use it for forward propulsion?

    b1umb0y
    they make freewheels for use on the left side, the ACS southpaw i believe it's called. bmxers do that depending on what side they grind on so they don't bash their drivetrain.
    Retrograde Customs

  31. #31
    Steamroller
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    Ditto what OGG said!

    Quote Originally Posted by OneGearGuy
    Interesting idea, but this comes to mind:

    ~ twice as expensive
    ~ twice as complicated
    ~ twice as heavy
    ~ twice the maintanance
    ~ two pant legs getting caught in the chain and/or two "Fred" tatoos on your calves!
    ~ at least twice as much difficulty removing rear wheel. can you imagine getting a rear flat during a race?

    That being said, I love fresh thinkers who are unafraid and I am curious about the ride report.
    OGG
    I was about to post almost the exact same observations, I can't imagine any benifit would out weigh all these apparent disadvantages unless, you place a real high value and cool and unique

    Of course there is nothing wrong with building something wierd just to see if you can or just because you get a kick out of it. Cool ride Erik!
    Last edited by Mattman; 06-29-2005 at 10:18 PM.
    Two Wheeled and Too Big

  32. #32
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    it'd look cool if it was running something like a 28:14 on one side and a 40:20 on the other. or better yet, 2 totally different ratios. hm, i don't think that'd work too well.

  33. #33
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    That's kind of like running around in two pairs of underwear.

  34. #34
    Reviewer/Tester
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    It looks good..very 'balanced' look to the bike.. I like it..

    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  35. #35
    an eagle in your mind
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    someones done that to operate as a dual-drive fixie ... i think its neat as all shtt
    living on earth is expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun -bill woods

  36. #36
    Recovering couch patato
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    Seems hard to pull off, a dual-fixie. How do you get the cogs aligned?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  37. #37
    an eagle in your mind
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    im looking at my bikes with non-dished rear wheels right now... i dont see why any manipulation would be required... with bb centered in the shell and an identical crank on the right side thrown over on the left i think it'll just work straight up.... but ive been awake 18 hours straight so i might be thinking and typing gibberish
    living on earth is expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun -bill woods

  38. #38
    hands up who wants to die
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    who wants to post that dumb pic of the bike with 10 barends attached to each other?

    that is what I think of this dual drive thing: funny, but useless.

    KISS or KIUS ?

    -r
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpstumper
    That's kind of like running around in two pairs of underwear.
    I once wore 2 pairs of bike shorts at the end of a 24 hour race, therefore I like it! I do have a question though: As others have said, there is very little chance that the 2 freewheels will engage at the same point. This means that only one chain and freewheel are transferring power at any given time and the other is just kind of hanging out. So after everytime you freewheel, either the left or the right side will be transferring the power, but never both. So I guess the drivetrain will last twice as long because you are only using each side half as much. Does any of that make sense???

    Mark

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    Who let this guy in here?


    It seems like engagement speed could vary at random between much quicker than a King and barely better than whatever freewheels you are using. I'd rather have consistant performance, but that is just a personal preference.

    Since the chances of both sides engaging at the same time is virtually nil, both sides may be trading the load, but that is not the same as sharing it. During any period of constant pedaling, you are no better off than with a single sided drivetrain.

    At best each side would be doing half as much work, and in that regard you might get half as much wear on the teeth and pawls. But both sides would always be picking up just as much grit, moisture etc., and that would be degrading the both chains just as quickly as well as working its way into the freewheels. And both freewheels would be freewheeling 100% of the time during any coasting and degrading the internal lubricants and other parts.

    On the other hand (as others have been allowed to observe) you are spending more, carrying more weight, dealing with additional maintenance hassles etc.

    I'm sure the builder is a prince, and I admire his pusuit of novelty to the point of getting a custom Phil hub made to realize it. But if he didn't build it to prove that a double sided drivetrain is better, why are you trying to prove it?

  41. #41
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by czardonic
    ...But if he didn't build it to prove that a double sided drivetrain is better, why are you trying to prove it?
    Some people climb mountains just because they can.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Seems hard to pull off, a dual-fixie. How do you get the cogs aligned?
    Fixed hubs with splined or bolt-on cogs are available, IIRC. You might be able to swing it with a double sided version.

  43. #43
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    Who said it was better?

    It has its advantages, and it has its disadvantages...just like everything else in this world.

    Why rip on it?


    Quote Originally Posted by czardonic


    It seems like engagement speed could vary at random between much quicker than a King and barely better than whatever freewheels you are using. I'd rather have consistant performance, but that is just a personal preference.

    Since the chances of both sides engaging at the same time is virtually nil, both sides may be trading the load, but that is not the same as sharing it. During any period of constant pedaling, you are no better off than with a single sided drivetrain.

    At best each side would be doing half as much work, and in that regard you might get half as much wear on the teeth and pawls. But both sides would always be picking up just as much grit, moisture etc., and that would be degrading the both chains just as quickly as well as working its way into the freewheels. And both freewheels would be freewheeling 100% of the time during any coasting and degrading the internal lubricants and other parts.

    On the other hand (as others have been allowed to observe) you are spending more, carrying more weight, dealing with additional maintenance hassles etc.

    I'm sure the builder is a prince, and I admire his pusuit of novelty to the point of getting a custom Phil hub made to realize it. But if he didn't build it to prove that a double sided drivetrain is better, why are you trying to prove it?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I once wore 2 pairs of bike shorts at the end of a 24 hour race, therefore I like it! I do have a question though: As others have said, there is very little chance that the 2 freewheels will engage at the same point. This means that only one chain and freewheel are transferring power at any given time and the other is just kind of hanging out. So after everytime you freewheel, either the left or the right side will be transferring the power, but never both. So I guess the drivetrain will last twice as long because you are only using each side half as much. Does any of that make sense???

    Mark
    Actually, that makes perfect sense. Which ever one engages first will be the one carrying all of the load.

    It would be kinda cool if they made a cassette hub with the ratchet mechanism dead center in the hub body, and have the cassette carrier on both sides... Then you could run left, right, or both. Might not be popular with SS'ers, but the BMX'ers might like it.

  45. #45
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    I'd be more impressed if each crank revolved independently...
    "The man is richest whose pleasures are the cheapest" Henry David Thoreau (obviously a single speeder)

    "...everytime you throw something away your load gets lighter..."

  46. #46
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    Ride Report

    Well I rode the bike twice on a local trail here in Phoenix (T-100) and I love the bike. The drive train performed flawlessly. I noticed the bike was more balanced; it doesn’t have that right hand lean. The bottom bracket area "felt" way stiffer although I'm not sure it really was it just felt that way, and the engagement did feel a little quicker. I must admit that it is not a night and day difference you do not start riding and think this is the best invention since suspension but it is very cool. Now for the true revelation on my ride I love those H-Bars I am totally sold on those baby’s they felt so natural from beginning to end, and I felt the control was great as well, the Ti stem was pretty flexi but the perfect length. As for the down side maintaining two drive trains and fixing a flat I did not have to do either so I cannot comment on that, also there was not any "noticeable" extra friction with the extra chain it may have been there but it was undetectable. Overall this is a great bike at a decent price I love it. If you have any tech questions you can call Eric the owner of the Slippery Pig bike shop in Phoenix (602)263-5143 I am not affiliated with them in any way I just thought you guys would think this was cool. Steve
    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  47. #47
    hands up who wants to die
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    I haven't heard a convincing performance-related advantage yet.
    There could be some *psychological* advantage if the rider has OCD, and the asymmetrical aesthetics of a standard bike is a mental hurdle that s/he can't get over.

    What advantages are you referring to exactly?

    -r
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  48. #48
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    Advantages

    Quote Originally Posted by rpet
    I haven't heard a convincing performance-related advantage yet.
    There could be some *psychological* advantage if the rider has OCD, and the asymmetrical aesthetics of a standard bike is a mental hurdle that s/he can't get over.

    What advantages are you referring to exactly?

    -r
    I don't rember saying there where any advantages.
    All I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    Who said it was better?
    Well. . .
    Quote Originally Posted by paramountz
    ". . .it's a blast to ride the first thing I noticed is how balanced it is when pedaling and how much power you can get from each pedal stroke on each side."
    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    It does have improved engagement, almost on par with a King. Since the load is shared between 2 sets of chainrings and cogs, longevity should be improved. Performance, lets just say pedaling it is more 'balanced', especially when you're riding w/o hands on the bars.
    Quote Originally Posted by paramountz
    I noticed the bike was more balanced; it doesn't have that right hand lean.
    I'm not trying to rip (though I do realize I came off as a wet blanket). If it is fun to ride, great. It is a nice execution of a novel idea, and I appreciate it on that merit.

  50. #50
    hands up who wants to die
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    Sorry - I meant to reply to the Funboarder guy... Not ripping on you at all!
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