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2011 Fisher Rig Slip'n'Slide Dropouts - anyone?

9K views 28 replies 17 participants last post by  gonzo 
#1 ·
So my bike of the month is a 2011 Fisher Rig.

I was digging the sliding dropouts - that's why I went ahead and got it, I don't like EBB's, and the most recent Ti HT I had.. well, I didn't like as much as I had hoped.

Anyway, 3 rides now, and after each one, the chain comes loose. I'm not the freshest turnip off the truck, but this smacks of sliders slipping.

Anyone have any other experience with this frame?

I've put a monkey-killing amount of torque on the bolts each time, insured the axle adjuster nuts are down tight and firm, etc.. yet.. each ride, goes from nice and tight to sloppy frenchho loose.

Anyone?
 
#6 ·
2011 Fisher Rig slider system

I have noticed the slipping effect on with my 2011 Gary Fisher Rig. I don't believe that the slider bolts are slipping though. I *think* I know what's happenin'..

The mechanics of the slider system are not perfect and there is some slack between bolt/slider and nut/slider, etc. This combined with a small lever between bolts and drops means that after you've snugged the chain up with the tension screws and then tighten the slider clamp bolts you've effectively pushed all of the mechanical slop in one direction. The system is 'loaded' in that rearward direction and then pedal forces pull in the opposite direction. Pedaling (esp. singlespeeding) will eventually 'unload' the system in the other direction, causing the chain to slacken. This happens regardless of how hard you tighten the clamp bolts. I think the bolts aren't moving but the stuff around them are.

Try tensioning the chain more than you need, a little more than comfortable, and don't over-tighten the clamp bolts. Go for a ride and observe when the slack has been pulled. Now if you tend to over-tighten things like I do then snug the slider bolts further.
 
#3 ·
No chance. Chains don't stretch that much.

1) was using this chain my last bike, didn't stretch at all for 70miles
2) put on this bike, went from tight to sloppy loose in 10miles
3) retightend, re sloppy loose
4) re-retightened, re-re-sloppy loose
 
#8 ·
Is any of the slider/frame interface painted or coated? If so, rough it up with some steel wool?
...and change out those tiny tension screws with something a bit more heavy duty from the hardware store.

Shocked to say mine hasn't slipped yet, but that's the info I've hreard to remedy it if/when it does.
 
#5 ·
I currently have a 2011 Superfly SS and previously had a 2010 Superfly SS. I believe the dropouts are very similar to that of the Rig's. When I first got the 2010, I experienced the same slipping issues you speak of, so I contacted Fisher. They sent me a beefed up hardware kit that included new bolts, washers and some kind of splined washer to fit inside the slider part of the frame. I installed these as per their instructions and it helped the problem.

That frame broke and Fisher (Trek) replaced with the 2011 model. This frame came with the beefed up hardware kit already installed. I've ridden this frame quite a bit and the kit helped in the beginning, but they are slipping once again. Sometimes they stay good for several rides, sometimes only for several miles. I've tried different bolts, lock washers, etc. but to no avail. Hopefully someone else has some ideas as well. Unreliable dropouts make the bike feel useless.
 
#11 ·
But, I have to say I haven't yet figured out the best procedure to set the slider.

Does anyone have a good idea what gets tightened in what order? In a step-by-step fashion?
Cheepnis,
I like your theory about the sliders loosening up around the snug bolts due to play or slop in the interface. After my last ride, I noticed my chain had slackened more than i'm comfortable with so just for fun, I left the bolts tight and just turned the thumb adjuster screw on the drive side as hard as I could by hand. I got maybe a half turn and the chain was noticeably tighter. To me, it suggests that the bolts were tight and I was simply removing the accumulated "slop" in the slider mechanism.
All this led me to an idea... What if you start by tightening the chain with the tension screws until it get close to being tight. At this point, remove the rear wheel and mark the slider location. Loosen all the bolts and move both sliders rearward some small increment (say 2 mil). DO NOT use the slider adjuster screws to move the sliders rearward! Just use fingers. Re tighten all the slider bolts and reinstall wheel with chain. Repeat as necessary until the desired tension is achieved.
Does this make any sense? I'm thinking this may allow the slop in the mechanism to remain more neutral than forced rearward when you tighten everything. I'm going to try this myself this weekend and see if it yields any results.
 
#10 ·
My ti bassically does the same thing, I don't usally retighten, so I've been riding with the looser chain or higher slacked chain. I haven't had any chain derailment, so , what is the problem with a little chain slack rather than something perfectly tight?

Not sure, never a problem.

Mojo
 
#14 ·
Ahh, the bane of singlespeed... how to tension the chain. Only a few options:

EBB - losing favor fast, they tend to be mediocre at best, no matter how well they are designed.
Split EBB - seems like a great solution, but are sadly only found on a few frames.
Horizontal DOs - good, but its a challenge to use QRs, or you have to use bolted axles.
Sliders - great solution if you can keep them from slipping forward.
Chain tensioner - simple, works great, you can convert any frame, but it's blasphemy for some reason.
Magic Gear - the holy grail

Anyway, there are usually 2 parts to sliding DOs - the bolts that secure it to the frame, and the set screws that are *supposed* to keep them from sliding forward under load. If your DOs are sliding forward, two things must be occurring: the bolts aren't exerting enough friction (due to paint or insufficient torque) to keep them in place, AND the set screws are backing out. Try putting a little blue loc-tite on the set screw. If the set screw stays put, even if the bolts aren't tight enough, the DO cannot slide forward. Unless something bends, which is a different problem.

When your chain loosens, is the wheel crooked/off-center in the stays? My guess would be yes, since both stays DOs would have to move forward the same amount to keep the wheel centered. Not likely. Therefore, another thing to look at is the non-drive side. Disc brakes put a levering force on this side, but in the rear direction. If the non-drive side is moved backwards, this too can cause the drive side to loosen and increase chain slack. So make sure to torque your non drive side as well. Obviously, this can cause disc brake misalignment, too.
 
#18 ·
I tried my tightening idea out this weekend and it seemed to work so far... I did do one thing different in that when I set the dropouts without the wheel on it made the drive side too far back and thus off center and really tight. So, I put the wheel back on, backed off the set screw about 3/4 of a turn and let the the bolts loose. The chain tension pulled the wheel forward enough that tension seemed really good and the alignment looked much better as well. I left the non-drive side tightened down when I did this. I have only ridden a few miles so far, but I did do some big "stand and mash" hills that usually loosen the chain and so far so good. I'll report back later this week after some serious riding.
 
#20 ·
Just an update... I've ridden my Superfly a couple of times now after tightening the chain as I described above and so far I've had no slippage. I guess i've been about 30 miles altogether and normally riding this distance would require me to retighten the chain at least once. Maybe i'm just lucky this time or maybe i've got it figured out. Only more riding will tell.
 
#21 ·
Most bikes need some sort of adjustments after a initial break in - that's why LBSes typically offer a tune-up after the first 100 miles or so. I would guess that you'll be okay now - maybe some minor adjustments here and there as things finish settling in, but nothing major.
 
#22 ·
I know this is an old thread but I was just wondering if anyone came up with a real fix?

I have a 2011 Marlin SS and I've tried everything mentioned here.

I've used grade 8 bolts with loctite tightened with a breaker bar and the damn thing still slips!!

I also tried tensioning it without the adjusters (I agree there is a lot of slop in the interface) and after one ride the chains almost falling off the sprockets there's so much slack.

At this point I've pretty much called it quits. I wouldn't even sell the frame to someone, I'd rather chop it up and burn it.
 
#24 ·
Unfortunately I bought it used :( .

I'm just so frustrated because it's become the bike I hate to love. It's a dream half way through the trail until the axel starts slipping and the brake begins to howl. Then I have to stop and readjust the brake and pray it doesn't throw the chain before I get back to the trail head.

I've contemplated slamming the dropouts all the way forward and finding the magic gearing but to be honest I'm sick of wrenching on it constantly.
 
#27 ·
i think its a two things. The chain stays and seat stays are flexing too much under torque and braking and causing the non drive side tensioning bolt to bend and let the wheel alignment move in the end. I have been riding the rig for three years on the new tensioning system and have had issues too and have come to this conclusion. I know its an issue among many and causes the chain to fall off over time but the bike handles better than anything else out there and is a simple fix over time. i think we need to hang in there. trek will fix it.........
 
#28 ·
Just picked up a RIG dirt cheap in perfect condition, and planning on the worst scenario. Has there been any updates or provided fix from Trek on this issue? Or should I just take the frame to a machine shop and have them develop a fix.

GT

i think its a two things. The chain stays and seat stays are flexing too much under torque and braking and causing the non drive side tensioning bolt to bend and let the wheel alignment move in the end. I have been riding the rig for three years on the new tensioning system and have had issues too and have come to this conclusion. I know its an issue among many and causes the chain to fall off over time but the bike handles better than anything else out there and is a simple fix over time. i think we need to hang in there. trek will fix it.........[/QUOTE
 
#29 ·
so I shorten my chain, now the slider is all the way to the front. Hope this helps

I started having slip problems when the slider was all the way to the back. I tried taking the wheel off then tightening the hanger, but that did not work...

i am hoping trek gives me or heavily discount a new model
 
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